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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: rthom on Saturday 29 September 07 19:31 BST (UK)
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I have just located an index record for the divorce of my great grandparents in 1880. This has long been shrouded in mystery in our family oral history, so I am hoping that someone will be able to tell me where I can obtain a copy of the full record.
Thanks, rthom
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You will find the case records at The National Archives.
This is their research guide.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=53
You will have to visit TNA to view the records.
Regards
Valda
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Hi Valda: Thanks again for the prompt help. I feared that it might need a personal visit to TNA -- just a little tricky as I am in the US! I was hoping it might be possible to order copies remotely. I will have to coerce one of my cousins to pay TNA a visit.
Regards, rthom
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Does anyone know what the allowable grounds for divorce were then?
I have a supposed divorce I've not looked up yet and was just wondering what you had to do to get one.
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Hello madpants:
I too am very interested to know what the grounds were for the divorce as I had understood that divorce was very difficult (and/or expensive) to obtain in the late 1800s. I can see from the 1880 index record what looks like the naming of a co-respondent -- suggestive of the grounds -- and also likely the reason it was kept in the family closet.
Regards, rthom
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If you have a TNA reference for the divorce you might be able to order photocopies direct from TNA but case papers involve lots of papers some of which you really would not need to have copies of, so it is best to send some one to go through them.
The first thing to know about divorces pre the end of the First World War were they were rare. Free legal aid was not available until after the First World War and so the cost of a divorce was beyond the majority of people who could not afford the prohibitively expensive legal costs. Most people stayed married or went for the cheaper option of judicial separation which meant they legally couldn't remarry. Couples however did live together as man and wife often marrying many years later (or not at all) when they found out their previous partner had died or thought it was now safe to take the risk. A surprisingly high number of couples married bigamously.
I know of examples of bigamous marriages or couples living together where there were later stories in families of a divorce which did not in fact take place.
The main grounds for divorce after 1857 and before the 1920s was adultery. However women could not divorce husbands for that reason alone. Besides that they needed to prove desertion of over two years and or cruelty (the concept of mental cruelty was only must beginning to be understood). The difficulty for women deserted by their husbands and not knowing where they had gone, would be how they therefore proved adultery as well. If the wife committed adultery the husband was also able to sue her 'seducer' and claim compensation.
Until the early 1920s divorces could only be heard in the High court in London which again made the whole thing more expensive and difficult for anyone living outside the capital.
Pre First World War with fewer divorces mostly amongst the wealthy or at least the better off and with the grounds so restricted newspapers were always keen to print details of the court cases. This and the stigma which went with divorces (and the effects on the children of that stigma) meant couples often stayed together in very difficult circumstances.
Women who committed adultery had no rights as far as their children were concerned - to even see them again. Such women had to hope their lovers would indeed marry them and would be be available to do so, often more difficult if they were married and their wronged wives refused to divorce their husbands, since the husbands would have no grounds to divorce their wives.
Regards
Valda
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I have a great uncle, a coal miner, who got married to a divorcee in 1909, and her father was a locomotive engine driver. Unfortunately I can't find out her first husbands occupation, but I assume he was working class.So there seems to have been a cheaper way to get a divorce, particularly in the provinces. I would be very interested in finding out.
According to http://www.statistics.gov.uk/ Divorces between 1858 and 1900 averaged 350 a year.
Stan
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Stan
taken from TNA research guide
'From 11 January 1858, the new London-based Court for Divorce and Matrimonial Causes heard all divorce and matrimonial cases (such as restitution of conjugal rights, legitimacy, protection of earnings). In 1873 it was reformed into the Probate, Divorce and Admiralty Division of the Supreme Court of Judicature.The real opening of divorce to all classes took place in the 1920s, with the extension of legal aid, and the provision of some local facilities. In 1922, ten assize towns were named as suitable for the hearing of certain kinds of divorce. From 1927, petitions could also be filed in 23 district registries instead of solely at the Principal Registry in London, while cases could be heard in 18 assize towns as well as in London. This option proved increasingly popular: within 10 years nearly a quarter of all suits were started at district registries of the Supreme Court. The county courts were finally able to hear divorce suits in the late 1960s. Most divorces now take place at county courts.'
Pre the 1920s there were no divorces in the provinces. As I stated you could only be divorced in the High Court in London.
Lawrence Stone's book 'Road to Divorce A History of the Making and Breaking of Marriage in England 1530-1987' first published 1990 is the best book and most often quoted on divorce.
Examples of his figures for divorce decrees are
1857 4
1861 141 (divorce rate per 1,000 married couples was 0.04)
1871 161
1876 208
1886 325
1891 369
1896 459
1901 477
1906 546 (divorce rate 0.09)
1913 577
1917 700
1921 3,500
1928 4,000
1936 5,100
1940 7,800
1945 15,600 (divorce rate 1.4)
1947 60,300
1972 119,000
1985 160,000 (divorce rate 13.4)
I've tended to give peak years between the wars.
Have you a copy of your great uncle's marriage certificate in 1909? What are the details? Does his wife definitely give her status as a divorcee?
Regards
Valda
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Yes, I have the marriage certificate and it definitely states "The divorced wife of" It was a Register Office wedding so I assume the Registrar would want to see some proof.
You can get the official figures for the number of divorces for every year from 1858 to 2003 at the Office of National Statistics web site http://www.rootschat.com/links/01z5/
Stan
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Hi Valda:
Many thanks for the interesting and informative background.
In the case of my great-grandparents, the 1880 index record appears to indicate that it was my g-gf who was the petitioner, as there is what I assume to be a third-party co-respondent named alongside the entry for my g-gm.
My g-gf had a boot & shoe manufacturing business, and while he was fairly comfortably off, I wouldn't have expected that there were large amounts of money available for prolonged and expensive divorce proceedings.
I will contact TNA to see what is involved in obtaining the case record (for which I have the ref #).
Regards, rthom
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The only mention of divorce costs that I can find in 'The Times' is in the case of Kemp v Welch, May 1910, where the husband was ordered to pay his wife's costs which were £296. This seems to be equivalent to about £17,000 using the retail price index, and of course he would have his own costs as well.
There are also a couple of bankruptcies where divorce costs were given as the reason.
Stan
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The only divorce I have in my extended family was in the 1880s. The woman committed adultery with her husband's young assistant. Her husband was a funeral director in Lambeth so again owned his own business, but would not have been what I would term in any way wealthy. However he obviously was very angry and though he never married again I presume he divorced her to make absolutely sure she could have no further contact with their two children and also in an attempt to ruin his young assistant by suing him for damages (it didn't quite work as he was the illegitimate son of a man of some propriety and was able to set up in the local vicinity as an undertaker too).
When she married her first husband she was 20 and it was a step up for her. Her father had been a licensed victualler but had married her step mother, probably his barmaid just before he died of congestion of the brain. Her stepmother took over the business (her step daughter was only 6) and married a few years later and had her own children. Consequently on marriage the future divorcee was just an ordinary servant.
The case records were very informative and especially useful because the newspapers steered clear of the case. They obviously found an older woman's love for a man 13 years her junior and at that time under age not quite to their taste. Nevertheless after the divorcee and as soon as he was old enough, the couple married and the second marriage appears to have been one which was successful.
Regards
Valda
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Hi Valda:
My, that's an interesting glimpse of Peyton Place in London in the 1880s! About the same time and not far away from my folks in London, as well! The full story of my great-grandparents' separation awaits the case file, of course. I do know that my g-gf remarried in London in 1884 and went on to have two more children with his second wife. But I have no idea what became of my g-gm after 1880, there being no further mention of her in the family oral history, which suggests she became a family outcast. It has become my quest to find her. She was only 33 at the time of the divorce and could easily have gone on to have a second family herself.
Regards, rthom
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Hi Stan:
Thanks for your insights into the numbers and costs. My g-gf evidently weathered the firestorm of the divorce, so presumably the judgment went in his favour such that he wasn't saddled with his wife's costs and upkeep. Maybe the co-respondent had to cough up.
Regards, rthom
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rthom
what were the details of your great grandmother and perhaps we can help you find her. If the co-respondent sited by your great grandfather did not go onto marry her, her future may have been somewhat grim as she had every chance of being disowned by her own family as well. Women on their own not in some way financially supported by a man such as their father or husband usually had economically difficult lives.
The divorce case notes though interesting are not likely to help you with any information on your great grandmother after the divorce apart from perhaps some indication whether she committed adultery with a married or single man and where her place of abode was at the time of the divorce.
Regards
Valda
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Hi Valda:
Thanks for offering to help.
My great-grandmother was Mary Elizabeth Pearson, born Sep 16, 1847 in Northampton, Northants. She married William Thomas Hemmings in 1866 in Chelsea, London, and the couple went on to have three children in Chelsea (Ellen Louisa, Emily Kate, William Frederick). In 1871, the family is living at 36 College St in Chelsea; Mary is recorded as Elizabeth M.
The next glimpse is the 1880 divorce petition (Record No. 6730) by William Thomas, where Mary Elizabeth is again recorded as Elizth Mary Hemmings and a co-respondent named Turner is cited. In 1881, William Thomas is living in Ramsgate, Kent with his son William Frederick, giving himself as a widower; his two daughters are living with an old neighbour in St Pancras. In 1884, William Thomas remarries in a church in Clerkenwell, giving himself as a bachelor.
I have William Thomas and his three children fully tracked in the 1881, 1891 and 1901 census, but have not yet found any clues for Mary Elizabeth (or Elizabeth Mary) after 1880. She does not seem to be with her Pearson relis back in Northampton. It would be wonderful to find out what happened to her to bring some closure to this unfortunate event which has remained in the family closet.
Regards, rthom
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Nothing in The Times newspaper. I think you are going to have find out more information from the case papers about the co-respondent and see if she can be tracked through him.
Regards
Valda
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Thanks for looking, Valda. :(
We'll see what the case papers turn up.
More information on the case papers can be found in this thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,290565.msg1736428.html#msg1736428
Regards, rthom