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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: simonwpb on Friday 12 October 07 19:24 BST (UK)
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Does anyone have any information or ever even heard of a Manders Menagerie, a traveling circus in the 1850s-1860s ?
I suspect my G-G-GF worked for Manders and I want to find out anything about the show I can. Ned Green was an acrobat and "equestrian artist." Later in life he was Professor Green a Punch and Judy man.
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There is a book called
MANDERS SHOWS & MENAGERIES by Kevin Scrivens & Stephen Smith
published by THE FAIRGROUND SOCIETY 2008 (but we're only in 2007 :-\)
It's for sale on ebay at the moment.
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Thanks!
I ordered the book and we will see if it covers the period in question. When I Googled Manders a year ago, there was not much on the web. Hopefully there is some timeline to their travels in the book.
SIMON
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you could try a few of these
National Fairground Archive:
http://www.nfa.dept.shef.ac.uk/
Galloper
http://www.galloper.co.uk/
Fairground Assoc. of Great Britain
http://www.fagb.co.uk/
British Fairground Ancestors: Census and other transcriptions:
http://users.nwon.com/pauline/Travellers.html
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In actual fact, I think you should try google again (its amazing how much gets put online week to week!)
I just turned up this:
http://www.fairground-heritage.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=661&sid=6acba89e589df0165caf15e7e69c8e71
"I am the wife of John Manders, grandson of George and Margaret Manders, we are researching John's family tree. This is the verified information I have so far. Many people contributing to this site seem to have bits of information and their opinions and additions would be much appreciated. "
it goes on.....
9 July 1860, Cattle Market Leeds poster 'Manders Royal Menagerie' shows Maccomo the African Lion Tamer.
"1861 William and Rosina Manders appear on census in Bathwick, Bath travelling with Martinia Maccomo, unmarried, 25 Angola, Africa, performer of lions and tigers. " theres a bit after about Thomas MacCarte a great lion tamer who was killed by the lions....
and so on... check it out :)
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and here, youll find an actual playbill from 1860
http://www.leodis.net/playbills/item.asp?ri=2003108_29177493&p=2
I think ill leave you to that new google search :) happy hunting
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Thanks for all the help!
For anyone curious enough, the tale of how my GG-GF Edward Green may have joined Manders in 1839 is documented in my GM words at the following link:
http://www.smithb.com/familytree/wp01/p01_003a.pdf
See below for updated link
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What an amazing story.
Thank you for sharing it with us.
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I wish my ancestors had left such tales .......
A wonderful story, and well written, I was rapt. Its excellent.
Thank you.
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Is the book "Manders Shows and Menageries" any good? I think it's something my great aunt might like to look at (she's a walking reference book on our family history, and all things circus...) There's a strong chance she will probably know everything in it though, but if there are pictures, she'd probably like that. Her flat got flooded in the summer, and she lost a lot of very old, irreplacable photos.
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I really enjoyed the book and would recommend it to anyone interested in the history of Manders Managerie or any of the traveling menageries of the 19th Century. It is full of pictures, anecdotes and biographical info on several branches of Manders. Lots of background on Maccomo.
Simon
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Thanks, I think i'll get it. It's always interesting to know your roots. My grandad was a Manders, and my gran was a Fossett, meaning I have circus heritage too. Fun to see peoples faces when you say things like "my dad used to have a pet elephant when he was a kid..." tends to get some interesting responses.
Zo
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Hello... to znmanders..... is your father David Manders.... ie if so my mum is his 1st cousin Jean Manders from Lochwinnoch..
Also you must be zowie? if so i havn't got any info ie dates for yourself dob.. or new child? etc chat more if you are the right person.....
marc manders
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hello simon,
im one of the 7th generations of Manders family .... bit of info that might help, during the 1800s the Manders Royal wax show, had different perfomers as you will know... Ned Green ..im sure is listed somewhere in my notes, i'll get back tell u more.... but also one of the Manders in late 1800s married a Holden, of which the Holden family were one of the puppet side shows doing punch n judy plus other marrionett shows, ... now if ned was with Manders... he would have known the Holden family (puppets) as many of the fun grounds they were on the same ground??/
marc manders
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hello simon,
im one of the 7th generations of Manders family .... bit of info that might help, during the 1800s the Manders Royal wax show, had different perfomers as you will know... Ned Green ..im sure is listed somewhere in my notes, i'll get back tell u more.... but also one of the Manders in late 1800s married a Holden, of which the Holden family were one of the puppet side shows doing punch n judy plus other marrionett shows, ... now if ned was with Manders... he would have known the Holden family (puppets) as many of the fun grounds they were on the same ground??/
marc manders
Hello Marc,
PS The link for my grandmother's tale of how Ned Green joined the circus changed. Here it is: http://simon.smithb.com/familytree/wp01/p01_064b.pdf
When I researched Ned's biography I was able to confirm there was an acrobatic "school" near where he lived in the 1840's St. Pancras. It is shown in the 1827 Greenwood map of London and referenced in Mayhew's writings of 1849. However the timeline for the history of Manders seemed to not fit for Ned Green to have joined Manders troupe in the 1840s. I still think he was associated with Manders at some point however.
Simon
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Marc,
My research does not always add up with dates.
If family lore is to be believed Ned Green worked as an acrobat prior to his marriage in 1848, and the book indicated Manders Menagerie started in 1852. As to Punch and Judy, Ned took his performing family to NY to perform in the 1870s. When he returned to Manchester c.1878 he started a Punch show on Blackpool beach, so not sure if this connects with the Holden family dates. My suspicion is that throughout his lengthy career as a performer he worked for a number of circuses and traveling shows. Performers worked on a contract basis and there was always a push for fresh and new acts.
I was told that at one point a relative had some brasswork from Manders which only reinforces my belief that he worked for the show at some point however.
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that was my great great grandfathers menagerie then it was manders fair if you branch out to the right family.
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that was my great great grandfathers menagerie then it was manders fair if you branch out to the right family.
Which one of your g g grandfathers on on your tree/? William, James, John? i have the full family tree on all the lines. my tree is william mander then James manders 1800 then John manders 1839 then John manders 1870 then william walter manders 1907 then my mother Jean manders 1936 then myself Marc Manders.
at present i have around 250 manders in the tree, plus another 150 relations with other names but all connented up till 2010.
let me know if you want more info.
also the earlest mander in my tree is William mander whom married Rachel Perry based in
Rickmansworth hertfordshire 1795
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So was there a Manders troupe performing in late 1840s or early 1850s?
My ancestors married in 1848, so ideally I am curious if there was a Manders troupe in 1848 London.
Simon
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The first Manders show was started by William James Manders 1821-1871, He was a Lecture at Willaim Hiltons Menageries show, around 1852 he bought the show of William Hilton, with the help of a great friend George Hulse whom was a Turtle seller & importer from Liverpool.
The first show was renamed from Hiltons to Grand National Star Menageries 1852... also just to confuse... other members of the family had other shows, but all came together at goose fair Hull, but ofden travel 3 x different names... ie Grand National star menageries, Manders Royal Menageries and Manders Royal Moving Waxworks.. also later Manders Americain Biograph by James manders 1905.
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Have you ever come across in your tree a Manders who also worked as a stage actor circa 1850?
At the London Queen's Theatre in 1850 and 1851 there was "that established favourite, Mr. Manders" as noted in the Reynolds Weekly News paper.
According to the two articles found he performed alongside Mr. E. Green, who may be my same ancestor who was also an equestrian acrobat.
(Thanks to Eileen for pointing these articles out to me)
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George Hulse, Turtle Merchant was my G G Grandfather. The Tomb of William Manders is at the foot of George Hulse's Grave with the message 'Generous and True Hearted Friend' on the end of the tomb pointing towards the grave of George Hulse. It is rumoured that William Manders tomb is empty and he is buried with George Hulse. They are buried in the graveyard of St Hilary's Church, Wallasey.
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Hi,
I am curious as to whether my Manders line ties into any of the Manders Menagerie tree. My Great Grandfather Frederick W Manders (Born 1890 Kensington, London) married a Robinson in 1911. Their son Frederick C Manders is my Grandfather (b. 1925 Kensington) - he Married a Morris (she uses the name Ethel, but I am sure that is not her given first name). All of their children were born in Kensington.
I am not in contact with my grandfathers side of the family, so have been unable to find any more info. I believe he served in the Far East during World War II.
Would be very grateful for any info anyone has, as I cannot find anything pre my GG GF.
Cheers Ricky Manders (Ricardo John Manders)
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Update
I have now traced my ancestors back to a John Manders, born abt 1824 in Abingdon, Berkshire to Joseph Manders (b Abingdon Berkshire). I don't know if this helps, but am still looking for further information if anyone has any.
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Does anyone have any information or ever even heard of a Manders Menagerie, a traveling circus in the 1850s-1860s ?
I suspect my G-G-GF worked for Manders and I want to find out anything about the show I can. Ned Green was an acrobat and "equestrian artist." Later in life he was Professor Green a Punch and Judy man.
Update
I have now traced my ancestors back to a John Manders, born abt 1824 in Abingdon, Berkshire to Joseph Manders (b Abingdon Berkshire). I don't know if this helps, but am still looking for further information if anyone has any.
My grandmother's aunt was Annie (Weston) Manders (my great grandmother's sister), married to Albert Manders. I have some information on this line of the family if anyone is interested. Family lore always was that Annie was the spider lady in the menagerie, but I have not found any documentation of this. If anyone has any futher information I would be interested. Pictures would be great! Thanks for sharing.
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that was my great great grandfathers menagerie then it was manders fair if you branch out to the right family.
Which one of your g g grandfathers on on your tree/? William, James, John? i have the full family tree on all the lines. my tree is william mander then James manders 1800 then John manders 1839 then John manders 1870 then william walter manders 1907 then my mother Jean manders 1936 then myself Marc Manders.
at present i have around 250 manders in the tree, plus another 150 relations with other names but all connented up till 2010.
let me know if you want more info.
also the earlest mander in my tree is William mander whom married Rachel Perry based in
Rickmansworth hertfordshire 1795
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My grandmother's sister was Annie (Weston) Manders (my great grandmother's sister), married to Albert Manders. I have a bit of information for this side of the family if anyone is interested. Family lore talks of Annie being the spider lady of the menagerie, but I have not been able to document this. If anyone has any information regarding Albert Mander's line I would be very interested. Pictures would be great too! Thanks for all your posts. I have purchased the book on Mander's Menagerie and it has been a great resource, I recommend it to anyone interested in Menageries or the Manders line.
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I am a direct descendant of this family and have spent some time researching the history. I have ended up with original posters, rich detail on the family, I even have the claw of the tiger that killed the ring master (which was world news at the time).
When I have time I shall log all this information which will hopefully help you with your research
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RickyManders - Joseph Manders was by G grandad - that's cool
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RickyManders - Joseph Manders was by G grandad - that's cool
If anyone is interested, I can give you access to my tree on Ancestry.com, so that we can correlate what we have so far.
Just email me with my name at hotmail.com
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albert manders annie manders nee weston were my grand parents my mother was there oldest daughter nancy ivy ormrod nee manders there was two daughters and two sons albert and billy and another daughter dorothy aunt dolly we used to call her i was seven years old when grandad died we were wintering at water orton near coleshill bham when he died in 1940 his sister helen died the same year they are both buried at water orton church along with uncle joe who died at fazeley nr tamworth in 1946 i was there i was thirteen at the time grandma mum uncles albert and billy and aunt dolly are all buried in bedworth cemetary i have slight memories of grandad. joe i knew a little better i grew up with them all albert and billy were very clever with electrics i watched them build a one channel tv when they first came out in the early fifties grandma uncle albert died same year 1955 billy 1990s dolly 70s mam 1990 albert joe and helen never married my great grandfather james was killed by a train in portsmouth station
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john 2012
I know that fair people & canal boatmen hardly ever cross over or mixed but the areas that you mention Coleshill,Frazeley & Bedworth are all connected to the Manders part of my tree with buriels in Bedworth & Manchester these where all connected with canal boatmen but i know that there are large gaps in the Mander tree we have been unable to trace.Do you think that poss there could have been a union between the two occupations??
Jeannette
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jeanette .to my knowledge there was no connection with canal boatmen, there was a suggestion that grandma annie manders nee weston , had romany ties not sure if its true or not. i spent a lot of time with grandma, she never mentioned anything about it . though she was into reading palms and tea leaves that i can vouch for. she was a strong willed woman she had to be it was a very hard life. they were a family that kept pretty much to themselves.they sold the menagerie in 1936 iwas 3-4 years old,i have a few memories of it,i was nearly scalped by lioness my uncle albert pulled me out of the way, mum said john if you had been 3 inches taller you would have lost the top of your head. best regards john
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There are still Manders traveling with show people They were a very large family
I knew one section of them in the 60s when they camped at WEston Ryhn Shropshire.
Visit a fair ground and ask the boss he may be able to help you
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Greetings John!
I am the great granddaughter of Nellie (Weston) Higgs, your great-grandmother Annie's sister. Do you remember your mother's cousin Phyllis Taylor? She is my grandmother. My grandmother often told stories of the travelling menagerie and told we children stories of Captain Lambetti and Aunty Annie. It all sounded so wonderful and exotic! She used to tell us that Annie was a spider lady. I have never been able to verify this and would love to know if this tale is true!
My grandmother spoke fondly of her cousin Ivy and her visits.
Best to you and yours,
Sincerely,
Kristal Scott
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My Pa was William Walter Manders
Nana Annie nee Gallagher Manders
Great Nana Polly Johnson Manders
Mum Polly Johnson nee Manders Palmer
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My great grandfather was William Henry Craney. I believe he was bandleader with Manders Travelling Menagerie for several years in the 1850s and 1880s. His daughter was Lucy Ann Craney and she performed with the menagerie as a comedienne using the professional name Lucy Manders. She died in her 20s after marring a "comedian", and they had two daughters. William Henry lived in Longsight, Manchester, an died in 1904, aged 61. Keith Craney.
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My great grandfather worked and travelled with Manders Menagerie: he was the bandleader, and his name was William Henry Craney. His daughter, Lucy, was also an employee, and was described as a comedian. William Henry died in Levenshulme, Manchester, in 1904, aged 65