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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: DiNA_T on Thursday 22 November 07 20:20 GMT (UK)
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Would anyone be able to give me some advice about trying to get over a brick wall with regard to my Great Grandmother, please?
My grandfather was born to Mary Griffiths in October 1880 but I couldn't find a trace of them in the 1881 census. The address, given on the birth certificate, was recorded as empty in 1881. She was an unmarried mum - not good at that time - and no named father but family myth says that he was her employer, a well off landowner in the area, who took no responsibility for the child.
How accurate is the 1881 census? Is it likely that she wasn't included?
She did marry later to a David Thomas but I don't have a clue what date it was. A preliminary search hasn't yield much luck in BMD.
Are there any good tips on searching over the internet? Sadly I can't do the research in person.
I must add that the Registry Office at Bridgend have been very helpful so far (no names mentioned to spare their blushes!)
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Welcome to Rootschat!
I've had a quick at FreeBmd
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/
which is an indexed transcription of the GRO index - it's not complete, but up to about 1912 or so the coverage is almost complete.
If you put in the two names, select Bridgend as the registration district and put in dates starting at 1880, this reference comes up
David Thomas june qtr 1891 Bridgend vol 11a pg 986 with Mary Griffiths on the same page.
It could be that these two married the other two people on the page, but it's apossible. The reference won't help the local office, but will give a period to search for, or you could order the certificate from the GRO
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
People are missing from all the census years - any idea of her age?
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Hi DiNA_T,
Welcome to Rootschat. ;)
The only David Thomas marriage with a Mary Griffiths on the same page in Bridgend district I can find is June Q 1891, Vol.11a Page 986.
Fisherman
Added: Osprey Snap
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Hi Osprey and Fisherman
thanks for your posts.
I had found this marriage too, unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the right on. I've been in touch with the Bridgend Register office who have looked it up and it seems that this Mary was 23 - which would have made her 12 when my GF was born. Also I understood that my David was older than she was but BRO told me that the groom was younger than the bride in this instance.
I don't know my Mary's age. I expect that she would have been quite young when she fell pregnant.
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Hi Dina
I wonder if it would be helpful to look for them in later censuses - since you know his name and birthdate, we might be able to spot them.
You don't include the details of the certificate - can you post the address, grandfather's name and anything else (however apocryphal!) you know about him?
Perhaps you know where they went or the names of younger (half-) siblings & it might be able to get a good match using this information.
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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in 1881, there's a 15 year old Mary Griffiths,a nursemaid, in the household of David Grey, manager of tinworks, RG11/5327 folio 130 pg 11.
This could just be coincidence and I could be casting aspersions!
::)
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Sorry for the late reply - things to do and then the computer was playing up and after all that I had to go to work AND join in a special after work
do.
The address on grandpa Williams's birth certificate (1880) was 4 Temple Street, Maesteg, but this was recorded as unoccupied in the 1881 census. The occupation of W's father's (in reality his step father) was collier. (marriage cert 1902).
I've found William on the 1902 census - but by that time he appears to have left home and is a boarder elsewhere.
The bit about the nursemaid is interesting but poses many questions. Is 15 too young to be mother of a six month old baby?
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This is a puzzle!
I can't see them in 1881 either - I wonder whether she married someone else before marrying David THOMAS? That might also account for the difficulty finding a marriage/
Does the family story say whether there were any half-siblings for William? Do you have William's marriage cert and if so does it give David as his father? What occupation do they both have? Where did you find him in 1901?
The more you tell us, the easier it is to help (hopefully!)
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Thanks for your reply.
I don't think that she was married before.
Yes I've got William's marriage certificate - occupation for both William and David was collier. David was recorded as Williams father. But I know for sure that he was William's mother's husband.
Question. Was a father recorded on marriage certificate even if they had already passed away?
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Recording of the father's details seems to depend on whether the question was asked or not. On my grandmother's marriage certificate her father is recorded as deceased. When her brother married a few months later, no mention of him being dead and he died about 15 years before. So if it doesn't say deceased, he's either alive or he isn't.
::) ::)
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Forgot to ask, what was the address on his marriage certificate? Was his name given as Wiiliam Griffiths, father David Thomas?
This is in the vain hope that we might find one or other of these people on the census. Is William on the 1901 census as Thomas or Griffiths?
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Williams address on marriage certificate was 55 Picton Street and on 1901 census is 52 Ivor Street. (This is the most likely candidate lodging with Miller family).
William Thomas on the 1901 census and on the marriage certificate
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Hi again DiNA
The reason i asked about any siblings is that this would make it easier to establish basic facts about Mary and David.
Could this be them, for example - did they have daughters and where was the Picton St you mention?
RG13/5040/114/26
David THOMAS H M 36 - foreman haulier colliery (below)
Mary W M 33
Mary Eliza dau 8
Irene dau 3
All born Maesteg, Glamorgan
Address: 97 Picton St, Llangynwyd
kind regards, Arranroots
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Sorry - I tried to post several replies last night which included most of this info. but it just wouldn't go through.
As far as I know there were no siblings - William was an only child.
Picton Street is in Maesteg.
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Sorry to keep asking all these questions! :)
We need to have a few things we can rely on as facts to find William's family on the census. He should still be living at home in 1891, but since we aren't sure whether Mary is married or not, that is tricky.
If he moved out when Mary married, he might not have mentioned siblings I suppose. Although he obviously thought of David as his father if he mentions him on the marriage cert. What else does it say on the cert - who were the witnesses? Who did he marry?
I found another family in 1901, with heaps of children, but that Mary would have been married in 1891. (One child was called Gomer if that helps?!?)
Is there anyone of an older generation who might know a bit more and that you could ask?
Still hoping to help!
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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I was hoping that the address from the marriage cert would be a family one, but the head at that address in 1901 is John Lloyd aged 47 RG13/5040 folio 88 pg 36.
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Well done for finding that, anyway, Osprey! Maybe William married a LLOYD though?
I think we should also ask whether there is a family link with the MILLERs that Williams seems to be lodging with in 1901.
Keep those answers coming DiNA!
:D
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I do appreciate your help and don't mind your questions.
As far as I understand it William considered David as his father although he was not his natural son. So I am guessing that David and Mary married when William was quite young.
William married Martha in 1902, Martha's father Herbert being one of the witnesses. The other was William Philip Watkins, but I had never come accross this name before receiving the certificate. I believe that Herbert was a lay preacher - I have got a newspaper cutting of his obit. somewhere but unfortunately no note of which paper it was from nor the date.
Unfortunately I don't have any living relatives of that generation.
I grew up some distance from William and although I corresponded with him didn't ask the right questions.
I do know that when he was grown up William went to find his natural father (allegedly a wealthy man for whom Mary had been in service) who was less than interested and sent him away with a half crown.
Just read your latest posts.
I don't know of any links with the Millers or Lloyds.
Thanks you so much for your help - I have to go out now - but will be back later.
Very kind regards
Dina
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I can't even find a Martha with a father Herbert in any of the censuses!! :'(
I was hoping that William might be nearby in 1901 - just checking! ;)
Sending for reinforcements ...
;D
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No - Martha wasn't living at home either. She was in service with David and Elizabeth (there may be a family connection I don't know) Neath Road, Maesteg.
I have found Herbert (only one T there) on the 1901 census at Gelli Road, Ystradyfodwg with his wife and other members of the family. And also the family together on various earlier censuses too.
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1826/9 ?Griffiths of Maenclochog had a son called Stephen who in 1841 was living above a stable with a workmate Mathais Morris at Llandilo, (West Maenclochog) . In 1851 he is a Lodger with the Lewis family living at 30 Brown Street, Higher Hamlet, Maesteg. Stephen marries 1849 ? to Elizabeth Williams (born1826) and while living at 53 Bowrington Street, (Neath road) they have 4 children John 1852 Anne 1854/6 Margaret 1857 Mary 1860 they move to 59 Commercial Street and have their 5th child, Sarah 1863.
This is the Mary (born 1860) who when living at 4 Temple Street, gives birth to William Griffiths 5th October 1880 .(father unknown) . Mary gives up the child to he sister Anne (or Annie) , who is married to David Thomas and from then on is brought up as William Thomas (with his first cousins as adopted siblings) Elizabeth A 1877 Sarah 1879 John 1882 Stephen1884 Susannah 1887 Margaret 1891 David Joseph 1897. Living at 9 Station Street, and
later to Shoemaker Row, and to 31 Castle Street , Maesteg. William goes on to marry Martha Matthews .
What happens to Mary Griffiths, William's birth mother I have not found . She is not found living with her widowed father or siblings.
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Mary Griffiths's son William was adopted by her sister Annie who you will find in the 1881 Census . Annie is married to David Thomas who William takes the name of . I think Mary moved to Cowbridge to work for John D Evans's family as a General Servant . After that I loose her , but if she remained unmarried in the same area , it could be her died Cowbridge Sept 1945 at the age of 85 ...?