RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (North Riding) => Topic started by: Soureau on Sunday 25 November 07 00:19 GMT (UK)
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I would be very interested if anyone can give me information on what happened to the following Pattinson's:
- Thomas b. 1872, married Eleanor BELL in 1900 in Darlington, and moved to Birmingham.
Listed in the 1901 Census as a Chemist's Manager.
- Frederick William, b.1874
- Elisabeth Ellen b. 1876
- Jane Ann b. 1878
- Sidney Henry b. 1881
- Ernest Wright b. 1890
All of them born in Guisborough.
Parents William PATTINSON (b.1847) & Mary WRIGHT (b. 1846).
Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Nick
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Is it 1891 & 1901 census lookups you're wanting for all except Thomas, or do you have them all on census up to then, and want to go forward from 1901?
Barbara
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Good morning,
Thanks for your reply. The basic answer is "yes please", the 1891 and 1901 Censuses would be a great start. If you have any info after 1901, that would be a great bonus.
My paternal grandfather was, in fact, the 7th of the tribe mentioned, but as I never knew him I am very keen to find out what happened to his siblings, and by the same occasion, my father's cousins !
Thank you in advance for any help you can give.
Nick
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Hi Nick,
1891 RG12/4002 fol.29 p.5/6
2 & 4 Redcar Road, Guisborough, Yorkshire
PATTINSON
William, head, m, 44, House Painter, Yorks Guisborough
Mary, wife, m, 45, Yorks Osmotherley
Thomas, son, s, 18, Chemists Assistant
Frederick W, son, 16, House Painter
Elizabeth E, dau, 15
Jane A, dau, 12, Scholar
Sydney H, son, 10
Ernest W, son, 10months
all children born Guisborough Yorkshire
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1901 RG13/4571 fol.31 p.7
2 Redcar Road, Guisborough
PATTINSON
William, head, m, 53, House Painter, Guisborough
Mary, wife, m, 55, Osmotherley
Frederick W, son, s, 26, House Painter
Elizabeth, dau, s, 25
Sidney H, son, s, 20, Apprentice Tailor
Frank, son, s, 8
all children b. Guisborough
Susan Linford, serv, s, 17, General Servant, Norfolk Hitcham
1901 RG13/4571 fol.5 p.1
7 Bakehouse Square, Guisborough
Thomas Leng, head, m, 53, Plumber, Guisborough
Annie Leng, wife, m, 45, Stokesley Yorks
Ernest W. Pattinson, visitor, 10, Guisborough
1901 RG13/2859 fol.62 p.14
97 Stratford Rd, Aston, Warwickshire
PATTINSON
Thos, head, m, 28, Chemists Manager, Guisborough Yorks
Eleanor, wife, m, 22, Guisborough Yorks
Thos Kenneth, son, 6months, Darlington Durham
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1881 RG11/4844 fol.62 p.53
2 Redcar Rd, Guisborough
PATTINSON
William, head, m, 33, Painter & Paper Hanger, Guisborough
Mary, wife, m, 35, Osmotherley
Thomas, son, 8
Frederick W, son, 6
Elizabeth E, dau, 5
Jane A, dau, 2
Sidney H, son, 11 mo
all children b. Guisborough
Mary A. Mitchel, serv, 13, General Serv, Norfolk
William Pattinson married Mary Wright 1871 Dec Qu Guisbro' 9d 994
1871 RG10/4857 fol.31 p.2/3
Bow Street, Guisborough
PATTINSON
Thomas, head, m, 47, Painter Yorks Guisborough
Ellen, wife, m, 51, Durham Hurworth
William, son, un, 23, Painter
Thomas, son, un, 21, Painter
Robert, son, un, 19, Tailors Apprentice
Elizabeth M, dau, un, 17
John, son, 12
all children b. Guisborough
William, nephew, un, 16, Painters Apprentice, Durham Hilton
Frances M, cousin, 3, Labourer's Daughter, Guisborough
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Pattinson marriages - you can look up the details free on www.freebmd.org
Frederick William Jun qu 1904
Elizabeth E Sep qu 1910
Ernest W to Hannah Fisher Mar qu 1918
Do you have the earlier census information?
Barbara
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Many, many thanks Barbara, you're a mine of information !
Some of the earlier census info I had, but not all the details. However, you've been able to fill in a number of holes, for which I'm very grateful !
I had tried looking up some of the marriages on freebmd already. For Elizabeth Ellen I ended up with 2 options: either Richard TAYLOR or Walter SMITH.
For Frederick William 2 options as well: Rachel STEPHENSON or Elizabeth BOLTON. It's not clear which one they married, or I don't know how to read the Bmd records properly !
Many thanks once again for all your trouble,
Nick
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Sorry I can't tell you which partner goes with the two marriages, they're all the names listed on the same page, there is a local bmd site which will probably show the correct spouses, but unfortunately it's down at the moment which is annoying a lot of us! Hoping it's back soon, you can check it then at http://www.middlesbrough-indexes.co.uk/search.php
Are there any gaps in census I can help with?
Barbara
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Thanks for the local link - I'll certainly give it a try later, when hopefully it will be operational again.
As you seem to be a mine of census info, perhaps you wouldn't mind seeing if you could find for me - in the earlier censuses -:
William PATTINSON B.1805 in Skelton by Guisborough, who married Elizabeth WALKER 29.04.1823 in Guisborough.
It's possible that you won't find William, as I suspect he died somewhere between 1828 and 1840, as I think Elizabeth re-married John SUDDICK in 1840.
I've found 3 children for William & Elizabeth, 1824, 1826 and 1828, all in Guisborough, but it seems to stop then. William was, in principle, the father of Thomas aged 47 (wife Ellen) whom you noted in the 1871 census.
Do you know if there is any access on-line to Guisborough records by any chance ?
Thanks very much for your help,
Nick
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Only on-line PRs I could see are at the Cleveland Fam.Hist.Site, nonconformists, and the only Pattinson baptisms were at Guisborough Wesleyan:
PATTINSON Emily parents Matthew & Elizabeth Guisborough 1869 Jan 18 bpt Guisborough
PATTINSON Sarah Elizabeth parents Robert & Frances Guisborough 1881 May 23 bpt Guisborough
1841 census HO107/1255/10 fol.44 p.10
Belmangate, Guisborough
John Suddick 40 Shoe M J Y
Elizabeth " 40 Y
Thomas Pattinson 15 Painter App. Y
John Suddick married Elizabeth Pattison (without the n)
Sep Qu Guisborough 1840 24/313
Barbara
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Thank you once again for your input.
You have confirmed the 1841 Census info in my possession, and added a couple of details I didn't have.
The Pattinsons weren't non-conformists, and certainly weren't Weslyan, however, and the baptisms you gave me in this context don't correspond with the lines I have, I'm afraid. I have a Robert Pattinson, but he was definitely married to an Emma Walker.
No Mathew though.
I can't thank you enough for all your trouble and time. It's greatly appreciated. I'm going to digest all of this and take a fresh look at things. There may be further questions !
Nick
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I wasn't suggesting they had to be non-conformists :) just telling you which records were online (and it's always worth exploring all avenues, I find).
While the website is down, you could always try contacting Guisborough register office direct about the two later marriages, details of address etc on here:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/029n/
Barbara
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Good morning,
I didn't really think you were suggesting they were non-conformists, simply stating a fact ! I totally agree that it's worth exploring all avenues, I often do try just that. Curiously enough I have a Weslyan preacher in the family, but on my paternal grandmother's side, who came from Durham - but that's another story !
Your link to the Guisborough Register Office and surrounding areas looks very useful, although some Offices seem to have the possibility to search on-line and others don't. Many thanks for this invaluable piece of info, which should enable me to get some certificates at last !
On the subject of Censuses, would it be a lot to ask if you can find the 1841 record for Robert WRIGHT & Ann (née GOLDSBROUGH) ?
He was born in Osmotherley in 1821 and she was born in Hornby in 1821 also I think. In 1841 they should have had their first child, James b. 1839 in Great Smeaton.
Many many thanks,
Nick
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Hi Nick,
Will have a look shortly, meanwhile, glad to report that Tees valley indexes is up and running again
http://www.middlesbrough-indexes.co.uk/search.php
so you can now access bmds for Guisborough, Middlesbrough etc for 1837-date all from this site. You can order certs directly through this site too, just click on the link at the side of the bmd details
Barbara
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Interesting one this! Will give you the other Goldsboroughs as they may be related:
1841 HO107/1234/14 fol. p.1
Smeaton Village, Hornby, Appleton Wiske, Yorkshire
Mary Goldsbro' 40 Ind N
Catharine " 20 Y
Henry " 20 Carpenter App Y
Thomas " 12 Y
//
same page:
Geo. Goldsbrough 60 Tailor Y
Jane Goldsbrough 55 N
James Goldsbrough 2 Y
Robt. Wright 20 Tailor App Y
Robt. Rumford 15 Tailor App Y
Isabella Elwood 14 F. S. Y
not sure where Ann was, will look further, but they didn't marry until Sept Qu 1841 Darlington 24/30 Ann GOULDSBROUGH to Robert Wright
Darlington register office has its own online search and order system:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/029o/
There is a birth reg for James Wright 1839 March qu Northallerton 24/379 which might fit
Barbara
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This may be Ann in 1841:
HO107/303/23 fol.10 p.15
Mount Pleasant, Darlington, Durham
Mary E.J. OBrien 70 Ind. Ireland
John Douthwaite 45 F. S. Y (think this should be M.S. male servant!)
Ann Goldsbraugh 20 F. S. No
Barbara :)
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Good afternoon Barbara,
Good news about the website on-line again. I shall have a look at it very shortly.
Many thanks for the 1841 Census on the GOLDSBROUGH family ! George & Jane (née METCALF) were the parents of Ann, Robert WRIGHT her husband, and James their first child.
I know that they didn't marry until after James's birth, as I have a contact with one of the family descendants who confirmed this to me. However, there is a question mark on the date of marriage, as I have found a record for 16.08.1842 in Darlington. I'll have to check their records on the link you gave me. The birth registration you found is the one I think.
It's feasible that your second posting could be Ann, missing from the first, although I don't know what the connection might be with Mary O'Brien or John Douthwaite. Interesting one.
You've been more than helpful ! Merci beaucoup !
Nick
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I don't know what the connection might be with Mary O'Brien or John Douthwaite.
Nick, as the 1841 census doesn't give relationships, you have to guess a bit, but it just looks to me as if Mary O'Brien was head of household, 'Ind' - of independent means, and she had two servants, Douthwaite, and Ann - F.S. usually stands for female servant, which is why I said Douthwaite's was wrong, should have been M.S. male servant. Y is for yes, born in county, and No is for not born in County.
The marriage comes up on Darlington's website for 1841 and you can click on the link to order it.
Kind regards, Barbara
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Thanks for those tips on interpreting census records. Must confess no-one had ever explained that to me before !
I'm going to feel a little more efficient now ! But it's a fact that these little details can change a lot of things.
In this particular case (the O'Brien household) I don't think there was any necessary family connection between Ann and Mary O'Brien. It doesn't fit in with anything I know to date. As you suggest, it may simply have been employer/employee.
As for the Robert Wright & Ann marriage, I had the 1642 date from the direct descendant of James, the son born in 1839. Maybe he made a typing error, because you are right in that the marriage records are for 1641.
Anyhow, once again, you have been more than helpful with advice. I don't regret finding Rootschat !
Best wishes,
Nick
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Thanks for those tips on interpreting census records. Must confess no-one had ever explained that to me before !
Ancestry.com has some good information about the 1841 census
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01uq/ then scroll down to: for more information about this database 'click here'
One of the main things about the 1841 census is that adult ages were usually rounded down to the nearest 5, which can be very confusing.
Glad to have helped, best wishes,
Barbara