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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Rutland => Topic started by: paja on Wednesday 05 December 07 21:27 GMT (UK)

Title: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: paja on Wednesday 05 December 07 21:27 GMT (UK)
Hi!  I'm hoping someone can help me taking Robert Dexter backwards.  From Census records he was in the Oakham workhouse at age 4, in 1841, also in 1851.  I have him living alone in Greetham in 1861, no sign anywhere in 1871, and then moved to Syston (Leics) with wife Rosetta (nee Winterton) and 5 children by 1881.

There's a suggestion that his father was also Robert, his mother Mary, but I have no firm evidence.  Can anyone verify these parents, and find any evidence as to why he ended up in the workhouse at 4 years of age?

Thanks in advance,

Peter
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: welsh lady on Wednesday 05 December 07 22:07 GMT (UK)
Marriage
Robert Dexter to Rosetta Winterton in Oakham in Qtr Dec 1861 vol 7a Page 535.

Sending for the above cert would tell you if Robert was the Father I see theres a submitted entry on Igi stating parents as Robert and Mary.

Possible Death(If Robert is the Father)
Robert Dexter Qtr Sept 1840 in Oakham vol 15 Page 460

Welsh Lady
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: Ecneps on Wednesday 05 December 07 22:22 GMT (UK)
Hi Peter,

indexed on ancestry under Desler

1871  RG10/3307 fol.28 p.27  Ketton, Rutland
Robert Dexter head m 34 Carpenter Stretton
Rosetta  "       wife  m  28                  Empingham?
George   "        son        8 Scholar      Ketton
William    "          "          6    "                 "
Sarah Ann "     dau        3                       "
John          "     son        2                       "

Barbara  :)
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: paja on Saturday 08 December 07 17:59 GMT (UK)
Thank you both for this information, it's helpful to me.  Finding the family in 1871 was an inspiration, given I couldn't find them on Ancestry at all.  Maybe I didn't persevere enough.

And the death of Robert (snr) when his son was only about 3 might account for him being found in the workhouse in 1841.

The reference to Robert & Mary on IGI is tantalising, but is quoted under two separate Thurlby's, in Lincolnshire.

Thanks again, Peter
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: Ecneps on Saturday 08 December 07 23:20 GMT (UK)
Finding the family in 1871 was an inspiration, given I couldn't find them on Ancestry at all.  Maybe I didn't persevere enough.

Hi Peter,

I often search under just first name and birthplace, I think it was the more unusual name Rosetta that led me to the 'Desler' family

Barbara   :)
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: forte on Saturday 02 January 10 19:34 GMT (UK)
Sorry reply is late have only just looked at this message board. I have lots of Dexters in Rutland if you want any more info.
As far as Robert is concerned I can't confirm parents but I believe they were Robert and Mary.
1871 census he was in Ketton with wife Rosetta, children George,William,Sarah Ann and John
1881 was in Syston  with wife and children George, William Alice and Henry
1891 was in Syston still with wife and children Alice, Herbert and Albert

Cant find him in 1901 so presume he died bet 1891 and 1901.
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: Gibby1968 on Friday 15 January 10 19:20 GMT (UK)
Robert is my ancestor.

Get in touch and I'll tell you what I know :D though that's not much I'm afraid!
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: Gibby1968 on Friday 15 January 10 19:25 GMT (UK)
Reading through the posts already here it looks like you've already got the same information as me.

I too have him on all the census' but I lose him after 1891.

I assume he died between 1891 and 1901 but I can't find a death reference for him anywhere though I do have his marriage certificate.

Some time ago I applied for death certificates of Mary and Robert Dexter.  When they arrived I realised that Mary could have been Robert's father but Robert Dexter was too old to be the father.  Could be his grandfather though.
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: smudger28 on Friday 09 July 10 08:19 BST (UK)
There is a death which could match on the FreeBMD site

Robert Dexter 79yrs Dec 1894 Oakham 7a 179

This could be your Robert.

Paul
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: Gibby1968 on Friday 09 July 10 18:57 BST (UK)
Thanks Paul :)

Still doesn't explain why I can't see on the 1891 census though ???
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: Gibby1968 on Wednesday 07 October 15 16:42 BST (UK)
I am looking at this thread again after hearing a talk on workhouses and realising that Robert junior could have been born in or entered the workhouse with other family members.

I think Mary could have been his mother who died in childbirth and the elder Robert could have been his grandfather. 

I have been told that there are workhouse admission records the net but I cannot find them.
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: forte on Wednesday 07 October 15 19:36 BST (UK)
I believe they be available on Acsty but I only subscribe to FindMyPast so can't help.  I believe Leics & Rut Record office hold these details.

However, we do know that Robert 1837 was there and that Robert Snr died there. I don't think Robt was born there as all indications are that he was born in Stretton. The workhouse was in Oakham.

I do agree with you however, that Mary his mother probably died when he was born or just after and that is why he went there. Presumably the admissions would show when he entered, which would be useful if not getting us any further on.   I'll keep persevering.
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: paja on Thursday 08 October 15 16:25 BST (UK)
Supporting the general theory, Mary's death, from pulmonary consumption, was on 17 December 1837 in Stretton.  Robert (jnr) was baptised April that year.

The only workhouse records I can find on Ancestry are for London admissions and discharges.

The entry for the Oakham workhouse on workhouses.org.uk under its Records heading, sadly states that "The Record Office for Leicestershire, Leicester and Rutland. Only surviving local records appear to be Guardians' minutes (1836-1930)."

Apologies to any who already knew any of this.
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: Gibby1968 on Thursday 08 October 15 16:52 BST (UK)
I contacted the record office earlier with my query after looking the workhouses site and contacting Peter Higginbotham who said the same as you have here.

I thought it a little odd that he was the only Dexter there and there are no other related families in the workhouse at that time.

I would like to find out if Mary was his mother and where the elder Robert fits in.  I just wish he'd been born a few months later then I could have applied for his birth certificate!
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: Gibby1968 on Thursday 08 October 15 16:54 BST (UK)
I had another thread on here that gave Mary's date of birth.  Is that where you got it from?
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: jan57 on Thursday 08 October 15 17:25 BST (UK)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJXV-2QJ

 Baptism   date  for Robert is 6th April 1837
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: Gibby1968 on Thursday 08 October 15 17:30 BST (UK)
I know :)

This information is either on this thread or another I had going about him.
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: paja on Thursday 08 October 15 19:26 BST (UK)
I don't have Mary's date of birth, merely an estimate based on her being 25 at date of death.  I have the death certificate, which has one more clue in that death was registered by Rose Beeson who was present at the death, in Stretton.

In the 1851 census there are Beesons two entries (so maybe two doors) away from Dexters (widow Mary and family).  I may of course be trying to get 2 + 2 to be 17......

The older Robert may be a red herring.  His death certificate has him as aged 84 or 87, and the death registered by the Master of the Oakham Workhouse.  But I have a note (can't find the reference) that he was buried in Braunston, where there are records of several children to Robert (again!) and Susannah.  But Braunston is maybe 10 miles from Stretton, so there may not be a connection.
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: jan57 on Friday 09 October 15 00:46 BST (UK)
Quote
I don't have Mary's date of birth, merely an estimate based on her being 25 at date of death.  I have the death certificate, which has one more clue in that death was registered by Rose Beeson who was present at the death, in Stretton.

In the 1851 census there are Beesons two entries (so maybe two doors) away from Dexters (widow Mary and family).  I may of course be trying to get 2 + 2 to be 17......

  There  is a public tree  on Ancestry  that  has Mary Beeson down as mother to  Robert Dexter born  1837,   but  no other  info  other than what  you have   found  from death   cert  ( ie  age)

 There's  a few  Mary Beesons  born c 1812     on Familysearch  site  ,  but  can't see a marriage  to a George Dexter
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: Gibby1968 on Friday 09 October 15 14:40 BST (UK)
I have Mary Dexter's death certificate from 1837.

You're not the only only one guilty of trying to make things fit :)

I'll keep digging and see if I can make sense of it.
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: forte on Friday 09 October 15 15:52 BST (UK)
I have been researching Dexters for many years and have a huge database but still can't fathom Robert 1837 or Robert b abt1753.
My real sticking point for some years has been a John Dexter b abt 1799 who died in Stretton 1849 ma to Mary Roberts of Witham on the Hill.
I know when he married her it stated in the parish register that he is  "a Widr of Braunston in Rutland".
I think he could be the son of Robert & Susannah(Billson) of Braunston and his bp was 1783 (allowing for 5 yrs discrepancy) this is a good possibility. They had other children Anne 1781,  Susannah 1788, Robert 1790  and William 1793.  (I have a complete tree for these from a colleague who has researched and is related to the Braunston Dexters).
So there is a tantalising connection to Robert of Stretton given that John lived and died there.
I traced him (John that is) back to a direct ancestor of my husband, to a William and John sons of John Dexter & Ann(Broughton) of Colsterworth. I know Anne died when the children were very young so it would be very likely that their father John would re-marry.  Is he therefore the John who married Mary Roberts?

So now we have three Roberts, 1753, 1790 and 1837 and the only one we can take forward is the last one.
Can anyone out there add to these dilemmas?

If anyone wants any Dexter info I will be glad to share.

I have also collected several Beesons because I think Mary, mother of Robert 1837 was possibly the daughter of William and Rose Beeson but not proven. I can't find their marriage and can only find children from as early as 1822, but given their ages cold have been married and has children as early as 1812(Mary's birth year).
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: Gibby1968 on Friday 09 October 15 16:23 BST (UK)
I think we have been in touch before about Robert?

I think Mary was Robert's (1837) mother but I need to identify his father Robert. 

It's not easy when there's such a big gap to fill.

I have a collection of Dexter names in my family tree that I am slowly going through to see if any of them tie up with young Robert.
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: forte on Friday 09 October 15 17:16 BST (UK)
Yes we have.
Interestingly Robert Dexter (1837) was in Greetham in 1861. There were Beesons in Greetham certainly as far back as 1786. If his mother was Mary Beeson did he know anyone there?
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: Gibby1968 on Friday 09 October 15 17:24 BST (UK)
Robert married Rosetta Winterton, the sister of Eliza who married John Hickman Boulton.  They are my 3x great grandparents.
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: paja on Friday 09 October 15 19:43 BST (UK)
I fear I may be responsible for the tree that has Mary as Mary Beeson.  Returning to it now, several years later, I can find no evidence to support it - I suspect I jumped to an enthusiastic and erroneous conclusion given that Rose Beeson was the informant. Apologies to all.

For context, Robert and Rosetta are my wife's 2x great grandparents.
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: forte on Friday 09 October 15 20:24 BST (UK)
I haven't seen the tree to which you refer but I think it quite possible Robert's mother could have been Mary Beeson and that Rose as the informant at her death could be her mother. I have found another child of William and Rose, Margaret bp 1814 so the possibility remains that Mary could be their daughter.
We all need some proof to help solve this.
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: jan57 on Friday 09 October 15 20:46 BST (UK)
There is this death    suggesting a birth   year  of   c1780

Deaths Jun 1867   

Beeson  Rose  87  Oakham  7a 167
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: Gibby1968 on Saturday 10 October 15 12:26 BST (UK)
Thanks for that :)
Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: Gibby1968 on Saturday 10 October 15 12:42 BST (UK)
This is the reply I got from Peter Higginbotham a couple of days ago after contacting him through his worhouses website;

Dear Janet,

The Guardians' minute books seem to be about the only records that survive for Oakham. Minute books occasionally name individuals being relieved by the union, particularly in the early years of the New Poor Law. Can't really suggest any other source.
All best wishes,

And this is the reply from Leicestershire RO I received this morning;

Dear Janet,

Unfortunately, the admission registers for Oakham workhouse, which would have contained the information which you are seeking, have not survived. We do hold the minutes of the Guardians for Oakham Union for the period 1836-1930 [our ref G/R1/8a/1-21] and you are welcome to consult them in our public searchroom . Full details of our opening hours and readerís ticket system are available on our website at www.leics.gov.uk/recordoffice 

However, although it is possible that your ancestor is mentioned , it is very unlikely since the minutes are a record of the administration of the workhouse rather than a record of the inmates. If you are unable to visit the Record Office and would still like the minutes to be checked, we can conduct a search on your behalf but we are now obliged to charge for this service at a rate of £25 per hour. I attach a form in case you would like to try this.

I am sorry not to have been able to help you.


Title: Re: Robert Dexter - b Stretton c1837
Post by: Gibby1968 on Saturday 10 October 15 12:44 BST (UK)
I think I'll input the Beeson information given earlier into my family tree and see what hints ancestry comes up with.  Will let you know if I find anything useful :)