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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => West Lothian (Linlithgowshire) => Topic started by: darz on Friday 11 January 08 16:05 GMT (UK)
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At this point I have very limited information but I am hoping someone may be able to help me.
Mary Ann Reynolds was born in linlithgow between 1870-1890, her parents were Edward Reynolds and Catherine Martin.
Mary Ann Reynolds emigrated to australia and married in 1912 to William Henry Fowler.
I am trying to find more information on her birth and about her parents. I cant get a birth certificate as I am not sure of all the details....
HELP PLEASE!!!! :-\
Daria
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Daria,
My mother was Jane Reynolds, daughter of Patrick Reynolds and Agnes McCrystal. THis Patrick reynolds had several brothers, all living in the West Lothian, Stirlingshire area.
The hour is late here in Scotland but I will look at things next week for you and see if there is any connection.
James.
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Hi Daria
Welcome to Rootchat :)
So far I haven't found a birth for her on Scotlands People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk between the dates that you specify BUT there is a marriage of an Edward Reynolds and Catherine Martin in 1889, Uphall, West Lothian.
Regards
Gadget
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Now found a birth in Uphall, West Lothian in 1890 for Mary Ann Reynolds :)
Gadget
PS - also a plain Mary Reynolds in Uphall in 1893
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On the 1891
No 6 Bank Building, Uphall, West Lothian
Edward Reynolds, 26, shale miner, b. Ireland
Cath, 19, b. West Calder, Edinburghshire(?Midlothian)
Mary A, 10 months, b. Broxburn, Linlithgowshire ( -West Lothian)
Gadget :)
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On the 1901 there is an Edward and Catherine Reynolds in Dalziel, Lanarkshire ( 639 ED 30 Page 9) but it doesn't look like the same family - Edward 34 and Catherine 40, b. Haddington, Tranent. Also no Mary Ann.
Edward was described as a stone miner in a coal mine which could be the same as a shale miner and he was born Ireland.
Gadget
Added -since found that Edward died 1896
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At their marriage ( 31 December 1889)at Broxburn Catholic Church, Edwards was 24, a miner living Broxburn . His parents were given as Edward Reynolds, labourer and Agnes, m.s. McGee (deceased).
Catherine was 17, living Broxburn. Her parents were Hugh Martin, a labourer and Ann m.s. McKaskin
Gadget :)
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a little more on Catherine's family:
1881 36 Greendykes Road, Uphall
672 Ed 3 page 7
Hugh Martin, 40, general labourer, b. Ireland
Ann, 40, b. Ireland
James, s, 20, general labourer, b. Ireland
Alice, d, 16, b. Glasgow
Hugh, s, 13, b. West Calder
Catherin, d, 10, b. West Calder
Anne Rafferty, visitor, 3, b. West Calder
and 4 Boarders. all general labourers, born Ireland:
John Bonner, 24
James Millar, 29
Joseph Millar, 26
Peter Rocks, 28
John rocks, 20
1871:
11 Graham St, West Calder, Midlothian
701, Ed 8 page 9
Hugh, 35, labourer, b. Ireland
Ann, 36, b. Ireland
James, 13, b. Ireland
Margaret, 9, b. Ireland
Alice, 5, b. Glasgow
Hugh, 3, b. West Calder
also as boarders:
John Henry, 37, labourer, b. Ireland
Hellen Henry, 32, b. Ireland
Mary Henry, 4, b. West Calder
John Henry, 8 mths,b. West Calder
Neil McLaughlan, 30, labourer, b. Ireland
Gadget :)
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Turning to Edward:
Interesting on the 1881
Store Row, West Calder:
701 ED 12 page 6
Patrick Reynolds, 50, General labourer, b. Ireland
Patrick. s, 24, limestone miner, b. Ireland
Margaret,d, 20, housekeeper, b. Ireland
John, s 18, limestone miner, b. Ireland
Edward, s, 16, limestone miner, b. Ireland
James, s, 12, b. Ireland
John Druggan, lodger, 40, General labourer, b. Ireland
No others that match up. It doesn't tie in with the marriage cert info but looks a strong possible :-\
Gadget
Added - found the sister Margaret's marriage - different parents' names, so maybe Edward didn't come over until after the 1881 census :(
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Hi Daria
I think that this is as far as I can go with your family. I know very little on Irish genealogy, except that it's difficult :-\
Edward and Catherine's marriage cert gives no more clues. The witnesses were a Hugh Quin and Rose Ann Cairns.
Good Luck
Regards
Gadget :)
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Hi Daria
It's getting a bit lonely on here :'( :'( :'(
Just found Edward Reynolds death:
Augst 26 1896, Mid Calder, Midlothian. Normal residence: Church Street, Broxburn.
Edward Reynolds, aged 33, slate miner, married to Catherine Martin.
Parents: Edward Reynolds, labourer and Agnes McGee (deceased)
Cause of death - crushing of abdominal organs caused by a fall of slate - a few minutes. (RCE - buried at Uphall Cemetry
Informant - Hugh Rafferty, Brother in law- Old Town, Broxburn. This person could well be married to a sister of Edward.
Gadget
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Just a note to Daria & Gadget.
I live just a short distance from all these places if it helps.
James.
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Hi James
Nice to see a friendly face :D
I'm going to try and find the marriage of Hugh Rafferty and also check up on Catherine. I think the rest of the story is in Ireland :)
Gadget
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Hugh Rafferty married Annie Reynolds, Calton, Glasgow, 1890 :)
Gadget
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Gadget.
All my Reynolds family came from Ireland through The Calton a Gallowgate in Glasgow. It is possible Daria and I come from the same family, but it will be next week before I have time to look.
Nice to see another friendly face too.
James.
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I'm sure Catherine must have married again:
1901 Niddry Rows, Kirkliston
667 ED 3 page 8
James O'hara, 36, shale miner, b. Glasgow
Catherine O'hara, 29, b. West Calder
Mary Ann O'hara, 11, b. Uphall, Linlithgow
James O'hara, 9, b. b. Uphall, linlithgow
Catherine O'hara, 7, b. Uphall, Linlithgow
Alice O'hara, 10 mths, b. Uphall
Mary Ann, James and Catherine could be Reynolds *
*added - they appear to be the same family - see later posting :)
There's no sign of this family on the 1891 but SP is down at the moment so can't check on a marriage or births of children.
Hi again, James :)
Is this your family:
Turning to Edward:
Interesting on the 1881
Store Row, West Calder:
701 ED 12 page 6
Patrick Reynolds, 50, General labourer, b. Ireland
Patrick. s, 24, limestone miner, b. Ireland
Margaret,d, 20, housekeeper, b. Ireland
John, s 18, limestone miner, b. Ireland
Edward, s, 16, limestone miner, b. Ireland
James, s, 12, b. Ireland
John Druggan, lodger, 40, General labourer, b. Ireland
No others that match up. It doesn't tie in with the marriage cert info but looks a strong possible :-\
Gadget
Added - found the sister Margaret's marriage - different parents' names, so maybe Edward didn't come over until after the 1881 census :(
Gadget
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Gadget,
You are working overtime here, by the time I get to look at my records, you will have it all wrapped up.
James.
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James, I'm Just filling in time while the paint dries :D
Daria ~
I suggest you read all this from the top or you may miss something! I'll send you a private message (PM) about the birth, marriage and death certs :)
Gadget
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:D :D :D
Looks like Catherine Reynolds, nee Martin did marry James O'hara
birth of Alice O'hara, 5 May 1900, Broxburn, Uphall. Parents - James O'hara, retort man and Catherine, m.s. Martin (married July 14th 1899, Broxburn).
So the other three children in the 1901 census are the children of Edward Reynolds.
I like it when things happen as I think they might :)
Gadget
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There are photos available of the Shale Mines and Oil Works where these people worked, also the original Miners Rows are still there in Broxburn/Uphall.
My family were in all the same occupations.
By the way Gadget, what is a RootsChat Marquessate against your name, conjours up all kinds of thoughts.
James.
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Hi James
Could you possibly put up some photos :)
Marquessate means that I've posted over 3000 (11571) serious postings in my short time here (2 years). I think I'm second highest poster 8) 8) 8) 8)
Stick with me and you might go far ;D ;D ;D ;D
Gadget
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i'll concentrate on the Martins now, James :) Do you think Edward Reynolds, father of Edward, was your Patrick's brother.
Death of Ann Martin - mother of Catherine:
30 Dec 1900, Broxburn.
Married to Hugh Martin, oil worker, aged 57.
Parents - William McAskin, farmer (dec) and Ann m.s. Malone.
Gadget
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Gadget,
I,m under a bit of pressure this weekend, off south in the Camper, but I will post some stuff next
week.
I'll stick with you. Get my count up.
James.
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James
You're not coming to visit me are you :D
I don't think there's much more on this. I can't find any deaths for Hugh Martin :'(
I look forward to your info and to Daria joining us :)
Gadget
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Gadget,
If you are anywhere between West Lothian and Lincolnshire, I will come and visit.
The people being traced here, and others like them, were the worlds first Oil Men. The Shale Oil industry was the start of it all.
James.
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Just off the A! in Newcastle :D
I was interested in the Oil Man on Ann Martin's death cert. Now that is very interesting - so Aberdeen (where I once lived) was way behind 8) 8) 8)
Gadget
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Gadget,
Give me the co-ordinates for the Sat Nav.
I will post stuff about the Oil Industry next week, started by "James Parrafin Young" Aberdeen was a century behind.
James.
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James and Gadget - I dont know what to say - You are both incredible...Thank you so much for all your help...Sorry I haven't been on to reply.........I am absolutely shocked....I am just reading through it all know....This is amazing!!!!
you dont what this means to me.....
Daria
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Glad to have helped. Daria.
I've sent you a belated Christmas present :D
Haven't found Hugh martin's death yet to get his parents but I think he's living with son James in the 1901. I'll get back to you on this.
Regards
Gadget :)
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Hi Daria
I think that this is as far as I can go with your family. I know very little on Irish genealogy, except that it's difficult :-\
Edward and Catherine's marriage cert gives no more clues. The witnesses were a Hugh Quin and Rose Ann Cairns.
Good Luck
Regards
Gadget :)
I think I have found the witness 'Rose Ann Cairns'
In 1868 Rose Ann Cairns was born at Bankhead, West Calder - http://uk.geocities.com/fnsnclr@btinternet.com/genealogy/examples/Townsend/TownsendChrono.htm
This site is about the Shale mines and oil works in Broxburn...So she is quite possibly a friend or something. Seems the shale mine and oil workers were a close knit bunch.
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James said he had a lot on the oil/shale industry in that area.
So Rose Anne was 3-4 years older than Catherine - maybe friends as you say :)
Gadget
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a little more on Catherine's family:
1881 36 Greendykes Road, Uphall
672 Ed 3 page 7
Hugh Martin, 40, general labourer, b. Ireland
Ann, 40, b. Ireland
James, s, 20, general labourer, b. Ireland
Alice, d, 16, b. Glasgow
Hugh, s, 13, b. West Calder
Catherin, d, 10, b. West Calder
Anne Rafferty, visitor, 3, b. West Calder
and 4 Boarders. all general labourers, born Ireland:
John Bonner, 24
James Millar, 29
Joseph Millar, 26
Peter Rocks, 28
John rocks, 20
Gadget :)
The Cairns family also lived on Greendykes Rd, Uphall. From the article http://uk.geocities.com/fnsnclr@btinternet.com/genealogy/examples/Townsend/TownsendChrono.htm it seems that greendykes rd housed the miners and their families. These houses were torn down in the 1960's.
James - i am guessing you would have alot of this info already.
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There is a website that lists fatal accidents and disasters in scottish mining villages www.mining-villages.co.uk
The site also lists mining accidents - I found edward reynolds in 1896
1896 August 26 Pumpherston (Oil shale) Edinburgh Pumpherston Oil Co Ltd Edward Reynolds Miner 36 Falls of sides Fall of oil shale at face of close place.
Once again - Thank you Gadget for the certificates/registers - without your help I would still be searching for mary anns birth.
Gadget and James - if at any point I can help you with anything (not sure if you have any australian connections) just let me know - i will be more than happy to help you both out.
:)
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Hi Daria :)
I'm really glad that we've got you on your way :) It's exciting when you find information like this for the first time!
I've been trying to track down their emigration but so far have not got anything definite. Is there anyway of checking at your end - I've been looking for Reynolds and O'hara.
Gadget :)
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I just looked on find my past and I cant seem to find any matches - the ages dont match up....I will keep looking.
All I know is that she got married 5.12.1912 in Brisbane. I am applying for a copy of their marriage cert this week - this can take up to 6 weeks (very frustrating) however this will not give me any information regarding her emigration. I will try the national archives and see if there is anything in their files.
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I found a James O'hara, aged 44 and Mrs O'hara, 45 and Catherine, 11 in 1911 but that was the closest :-\
Gadget
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Hi
Thank you all so much for these posts, long ago as they may be. :)
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Hi
Did you find out any more about Mary Ann Reynolds? I have some if you are still interested, and would like some more. :)
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other links about the mining:
http://shalepeopleproject.wordpress.com/
art project re shale workers
http://www.uphall.org/
Uphall on the web
http://www.scottishmining.co.uk/
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Hi Daria
I think that this is as far as I can go with your family. I know very little on Irish genealogy, except that it's difficult :-\
Edward and Catherine's marriage cert gives no more clues. The witnesses were a Hugh Quin and Rose Ann Cairns.
Good Luck
Regards
Gadget :)
I think I have found the witness 'Rose Ann Cairns'
In 1868 Rose Ann Cairns was born at Bankhead, West Calder - http://uk.geocities.com/fnsnclr@btinternet.com/genealogy/examples/Townsend/TownsendChrono.htm
This site is about the Shale mines and oil works in Broxburn...So she is quite possibly a friend or something. Seems the shale mine and oil workers were a close knit bunch.
Greetings ;D - Rose Ann or Roseann Cairns was my Great Grandmother. Her eldest son James McFarlane was my Grandad.
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I've just found Mary Ann's funeral notice on Trove Australia. It was in the Brisbane Courier Qld 1864 - 1933: Tuesday 12 March 1929.
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a little more on Catherine's family:
1881 36 Greendykes Road, Uphall
672 Ed 3 page 7
Hugh Martin, 40, general labourer, b. Ireland
Ann, 40, b. Ireland
James, s, 20, general labourer, b. Ireland
Alice, d, 16, b. Glasgow
Hugh, s, 13, b. West Calder
Catherin, d, 10, b. West Calder
Anne Rafferty, visitor, 3, b. West Calder
and 4 Boarders. all general labourers, born Ireland:
John Bonner, 24
James Millar, 29
Joseph Millar, 26
Peter Rocks, 28
John rocks, 20
1871:
11 Graham St, West Calder, Midlothian
701, Ed 8 page 9
Hugh, 35, labourer, b. Ireland
Ann, 36, b. Ireland
James, 13, b. Ireland
Margaret, 9, b. Ireland
Alice, 5, b. Glasgow
Hugh, 3, b. West Calder
also as boarders:
John Henry, 37, labourer, b. Ireland
Hellen Henry, 32, b. Ireland
Mary Henry, 4, b. West Calder
John Henry, 8 mths,b. West Calder
Neil McLaughlan, 30, labourer, b. Ireland
Gadget :)
Is it possible that this actually is Edward (my great-grandfather)? Could Agnes McGee have died by this stage and Patick adopted him?
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Hugh Rafferty married Annie Reynolds, Calton, Glasgow, 1890 :)
Gadget
From what I've been able to investigate e.g. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KMKY-K82 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KMKY-K82) & https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KS6X-X93 (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KS6X-X93) it looks like Annie was born in Buteshire. This doesn't look all that promising about her being a sister of Edward. It could still be true though. I wonder if, though, that Hugh could be married to a sister of Catherine Martin instead, or another sister of Edward.
By the way, the Hugh Rafferty or Raverty that seems to have married Annie Reynolds seems to have been born in Roxburgshire e.g. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KMF7-98Y (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KMF7-98Y) Hugh and Annie had a son called James: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTFS-RJP (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTFS-RJP) Annie in that was called Annie Reynolds Rafferty.
I'm still struggling with all this and would much appreciate any help.
Was James actually related?
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???
Sorry I helped Darz 7 years ago (January 2008) and have not looked at this thread since. It's 5 pages long. I suggest that Scotlands People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk might be the place to look.
Regards
Gadget
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Thank you so much for all the work you've done!
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couple of extras in case anyone still interested:
Mary Ann might have come to Australia on her own as Annie Reynolds on the Waipara: http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/Researchers/ImmigrationIndexes/Documents/Assisted-Immigrants-1848-1912-R.pdf leading to http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/Researchers/ImmigrationIndexes/Documents/Waipara_1911_Jan_to_1911_Jul_QSA_Item_18490.pdf
It's just a guess but is really the only one that seems to fit all the dates.
Also, Catherine Martin was fiesty! She took the mining company to court:
http://www.scottishshale.co.uk/
Almond Valley Heritage Trust: Museum Scottish Shale Oil Industry: e.g. court case re Edward Reynolds’s death: http://www.scottishshale.co.uk/KnowledgePages/Accidents/NewspaperRecords/News1890s.html#NewsAccidentEdwardReynolds1898
Also re my post in reply 41, I was meaning to quote from reply 8 rather than the one I did. I wanted to know if James was related to Edward and thus to me too.
I think Hugh Rafferty might have married Catherine's sister Margaret and become Edward's and Catherine's brother-in-law that way. I've also seen an idea that Margaret later remarried a Michael Kidd. I'm not sure of any of this yet. I know I'm slow.
Thanks again all.
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couple of extras in case anyone still interested:
Mary Ann might have come to Australia on her own as Annie Reynolds on the Waipara: http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/Researchers/ImmigrationIndexes/Documents/Assisted-Immigrants-1848-1912-R.pdf leading to http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/Researchers/ImmigrationIndexes/Documents/Waipara_1911_Jan_to_1911_Jul_QSA_Item_18490.pdf
It's just a guess but is really the only one that seems to fit all the dates.
Also, Catherine Martin was fiesty! She took the mining company to court:
http://www.scottishshale.co.uk/
Almond Valley Heritage Trust: Museum Scottish Shale Oil Industry: e.g. court case re Edward Reynolds’s death: http://www.scottishshale.co.uk/KnowledgePages/Accidents/NewspaperRecords/News1890s.html#NewsAccidentEdwardReynolds1898
Also re my post in reply 41, I was meaning to quote from reply 8 rather than the one I did. I wanted to know if James was related to Edward and thus to me too.
I think Hugh Rafferty might have married Catherine's sister Margaret and become Edward's and Catherine's brother-in-law that way. I've also seen an idea that Margaret later remarried a Michael Kidd. I'm not sure of any of this yet. I know I'm slow.
Thanks again all.
Just going back over the old post - Hugh Rafferty did marry catherine's sister margaret martin and then later married michael kidd (in 1899) after hugh died in Aug 1897.
There is a Hugh Rafferty that married an Annie Reynolds in Aug 1890. I can't find a connection at this point to my reynolds/rafferty family. This particular hugh, his parents were Annie Donnelly and James Rafferty and Annie Reynolds parents were Mary Bell and James Reynolds.
Hugh Rafferty that married Margaret Martin - his parents were Patrick Rafferty and Elizabeth Cassidy.
Margaret Martin/Rafferty/Kidd died in Jan 1916 at Broxburn.
I can find all this information for other relatives but I can't find the necessary info for my direct ancestors.
Trying to find Edward Reynolds (1865-1896) parents - im guessing they were in Ireland and only Edward was in Scotland - Edward Reynolds and Agnes McGee.
Agnes was deceased at the time of Edwards marriage to Catherine Martin in 1888.
Sorry for the rambling. Just thought I would provide a little update.
Thanks :)
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Great to hear from you Darz,
will check it all out again soon
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finally reviewed James O'Hara's parents: not Richard O'Hara and Margaret Halpen as I'd thought, but James O'Hara and Alice .....someone? from his marriage
Some of the American stuff is on family search too.
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Hi People.
I've posted about this on http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=780618.0
See this for deciphering of James O'Hara's mother's surname and much more.
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I've put a link to a pic of Catherine Martin there.