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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => East Lothian (Haddingtonshire) => Topic started by: mccubbin on Thursday 06 March 08 16:58 GMT (UK)
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Hello to everyone,
I am looking for any information on this family.
Ann Souness b. 1830 Stirling,d.1914, Dunbar she married 1853, Dunbar to a John Runciman.
their children
1/ Alexander Runciman b.abt 1853,Bolton East Lothian
2/ Andrew Runciman b. abt 1855 Bolton East Lothian
3/ Janet Runciman b.1858,Dunbar,d. 1858 Dunbar
4/ Jean Runciman b. 1858,Dunbar, d.1858 Dunbar (twins)
5/ Janet Runciman b. 1859,Dunbar
6/ John Runciman b.1863 Dunbar,d.1951 Dunbar he married Elizabeth Lowe.
7/ Thomas Runciman b.1867,Dunbar.
8/ James Runciman b.1870,Dunbar.
This is all I have on this Family.
I will say thank you now for any help that I received.
McCubbin
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do you have the census entries.
if not do you want me to post them.
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please Wozzle, that would be great.
McCubbin
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1861
john runciman age 31. b. dunter,haddington. occ. ploughman. head.
ann age 30. b. kilsyth,stirling. wife.
alexander age 8. b. botton,haddington. son.
andrew age 6. b. ditto. son.
janet age 1. b. dunbar. daughter.
living at ;pressmennan farm houses,stenton,east lothian.
i only have ancestry so can only see the transcribed entries
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have to go to work now will carry on in the morning
unless SKS does so first.
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Very quick reply - I'm going to kip now.
However,
I've got Agnes Runciman married to George Fortune 4th December 1816 in Dunbar.
Runciman is not a family I've followed but I'm happy to share if you think it'll help.
Dave
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1871
john runciman age 42. b. dunbar. occ. dom.servant. head.
ann age 40. b. kyloth,(kilsyth)stirling. wife.
alexander age 18(transcribed as 78). b. bolton. occ. agr.lab. son.
andrew age 16. b. bolton,haddington. occ. apprentice blacksmith. son.
janet age 12. b. dunbar. daughter.
john age 7. b. dunbar. son.
thomas age 3. b. dunbar. son.
james age 1. b. dunbar. son.
living at oxwellmains farm,dunbar,east lothian.
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cannot find jean runciman
i noticed there were 2 janet runcimans one born 1858 one 1859
i take it the earlier one died whilst still very young
and if jean was her twin did she also die very young.
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1881
john runciman age 52. b. dunbar. occ. agr.lab. head.
ann age 50. b. kilsyth. wife.
janet age 21. b. dunbar. occ. agr.lab. daughter.
john age 17. b. ditto. occ. agr.lab. son.
thomas age 13. b. ditto. occ. agr.lab. son.
james age 11. b. ditto. son.(scholar)
living at ;thurston mains cottages,innerwick,east lothian.
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here is the son alexander.
1881
alexander runciman age 28. b. bolton. occ. agr.lab. head.
jane age 28. b. innerwick. wife.
mary age 2. b. ditto. daughter.
john age 2mnths. b. ditto. son.
living at innerwick,east lothian(no street address transcribed)
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think this might be andrew going by occupation
cannot verify though
this is how the entry has been transcribed
1881
andrew runcimder age 26. b. giffard haddn. occ. blacksmith. head.
janet age 30. b. spott haddn. wife.
mary.m. age 2. b. athelstaneford. daughter.
ann.f. age 1. b. ditto. daughter.
living at ;6,springfield street,leith,midlothian.
cannot find andrew runcimder on 1871
which makes me think this is maybe your man,
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here is andrew in 1891
verifies that the 1881 entry was him.
andrew runciman age 36. b. yester,haddington. occ. blacksmith. head.
janet age 40. b. spott,haddington. wife.
mary age 12. b. athelstaneford. daughter.
annie age 11. b. south leith. daughter.
alexander age 6. b. ditto. son.
janet age 4. b. ditto. daughter.
margaret age 2. b. ditto. daughter.
living at ; 33,buchanan street,leith,midlothian.
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1891
here is the other son alexander
alexander runciman age 37. b. bolton,haddington. occ. agr.lab. head.
jane age 37. b. innerwick. wife.
mary age 12. b. ditto. daughter.
annie age 3. b. ditto. daughter.
living at ;east broomhouse pl house,spott,east lothian.
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1891
john runciman age 62. b. dunbar. occ. farm servant. head.
ann age 60. b. kilsyth. wife.
john age 27. b. dunbar. occ. railway servant. son.
thomas age 23. b. ditto. occ. farm servant. son.
james age 21. b. ditto. occ. farm servant.
living at; thurston house farm,innerwick,east lothian.
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1901
john runciman age 72. b. dunbar. occ. estate dairyman. head.
ann age 70. b. kilsyth. wife.
john runciman age 37. b. dunbar. occ. railway guard. son.
john.j.runciman age 7. b. portabello,midlothian. grandson.
alexander goodall age 24. b. stenton. occ. domestic groom. servant.
richard mercer age 19. b. (not given). occ. domestic groom. servant.
living at ;dairy main cottage,innerwick,east lothian.
the bottom two entries alexander and richard
the address given as ;thurston grooms room,innerwick.
they are all transcribed together though.
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will finish off this evening with the two sons in 1901.
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1901
alexander runciman age 47. b. bolton,east lothian. occ. ploughman. head.
janet age 47. b. ayton,berwick. wife.
jane age 15. b. dunbar. occ. farm servant. daughter.
annie age 13. b. innerwick. daughter(scholar).
living at ; easter broomhouse,spott,east lothian.
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1901
andrew runciman age 46. b. marvingston,haddington. occ. blacksmith. head.
janet age 50. b. shott,haddington. wife.
mary age 22. b. athelestaneford,haddington. occ. domestic servant. daughter.
annie age 21. b. leith. occ. printers machinist. daughter.
alexander age 16. b. leith. occ. printers apprentice. son.
margaret age 12. b. leith. daughter(scholar).
andrine age 9. b. leith. daughter(scholar).
living at; 5,cunningham place,leith,midlothian
reg,dist. leith south.
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here is the father john before his marriage to ann souness
1851
joan runciman age 63. b. dunbar. head(dependant on family)
isabell age 38. b. ditto. occ. agr.lab. daughter.
thomas age 32. b. ditto. occ. agr.lab. son.
joan age 30. b. ditto. occ. agr.lab. daughter.
john age 22. b. ditto. occ. agr.lab. son.
agnes age 19. b. dito. occ. agr.lab. daughter.
thomas strachan age 6. b. stenton,haddington. nephew.
living at; doulaw,coldingham,berwickshire.
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1841 cannot find a joan runciman of the right age wondering if her name had been mistranscribed in 1851.
cannot pin any of the rest of the family down in 1841
there are to many possibilities to say for sure that it is them
i think that is as far as i can go
unless i can find marriage for the daughter of john runciman-ann souness.
i take it you have ann souness through the censuses.
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hi all
possible death for john runciman 1905 born c1830 on SP
although it's midlothian rather than east lothian
ev
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Thank you to every one who replied to Runciman,it was all a great help and futher forward.
thank you.
McCubbin
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Hi everyone, i'm new to this forum, John Runciman/Ann Souness are my great, great grandfather & mother, Thomas is my great grandfather. I have some info on Janet Runciman (born 1859) she married a George Jaffary on 1 Jun 1883 at Innerwick and have an address of 3 Broomhouse Mill, Spott from the 1901 Census.
Her children are:
Annie Jaffary - b 1884
John Jaffary - b 1885
Alexander Jaffary- b 1886, d 1895
Lothian Jaffary - b 1889
George Jaffary - b 1892
James Jaffary - b 1893 d 1917
Jessie Wright Jaffary - b 1897
I have also found Janet's grave in Spott and John Runciman & Ann Souness' graves in Innerwick. I'm quite new to all this but hope this is useful to someone.
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Hi Centre Stand,
Here is my email address and I will send you info on our Souness tree.
(*)
look forward to hearing from you.
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Hi Centre Stand,
I have researched some of the Jaffray family you mention. :) A relative's great-grandfather was John Jaffray, b. 1866 in Innerwick, son of John Jaffray and Jessie Wright. It looks to me (with naming patterns) that George was a brother to John.
hume24 :)
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Hi Centre Stand & Hume24
I have John Jaffray(Jeffrey) married to Jessie Wright in my husbands line. They were my Husbands 2nd G Granduncle/aunt.
Children of this couple were
Jane 1851
Isabella 1853
Margaret 1855
George 1858
Ann 1860
Agnes 1862
John 1866
Robert 1870
John Jaffrey was born c 1824 in Edrom, parents were John Jaffray & Isabella Stark
Jessie Wright was born 1828 in Eccles, her parents were George Wright & Jean Stewart.
Fiona
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Thanks Hume24 and Caraid, I haven't really followed up the Jaffary line, my next project I think.
Cheers Ian
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Hi Fiona,
I had that information but thank you for posting. :) It has been a long time since I've looked at the Jaffray family ... will need to dig out the certificates I got from SP!
Thanks again
hume24
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Hello Every one
Thank you for all your replies on the Runciman Family.
It has been a great help.
Thank You once again
McCubbin
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Hello
I have a Marion Runcimen,b Approx1737 in Tyninghame East Lothian. Who married George Watt in 1760
Does anyone have these names
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1841 cannot find a joan runciman of the right age wondering if her name had been mistranscribed in 1851.
cannot pin any of the rest of the family down in 1841
there are to many possibilities to say for sure that it is them
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That 1841 census had me fooled for a while too.
Try searching under her maiden name of MANDERSON.
Ancestry has them all as MANDERSON, living at Little Spott, Stenton.
MANDERSON: Joan 50 F Lab; Isabella 25; Thos 20; John 12, Agness 9 all b ELN
For my interest, see the RUNCIMAN DNA Project:
http://dnasurnames.info/lineages/p41511.htm in particular.
The recent revelation that the Earlston/Wanton Walls line of RUNCIMANs is actually a close genetic match to William of Crail, and his Dunbar/North Berwick line has shifted the focus of my RUNCIMAN research to East Lothian.
We would love to prove that these four families all link at Thomas and Jean/Jane (SIMPSON) RUNCIMAN, and see whether or not they may also link to William of Crail and the Earlston lines:
Thomas who married Mary Redpath,
Alexander married Joan Manderson,
George who married Janet Darling and
John married to Marion/May Weatherley.
Anyone curious to see how the RUNCIMAN families may, or may not, link to each other should check the DNA project diary every so often
http://runcimansAll.blogspot.com/
And any direct male line RUNCIMAN from these (or any other lines for that matter), wanting to see where they may fit into the overall RUNCIMAN scheme, and willing to help by joining the project.
Just follow the "join project" link on the summary dna pages at
http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/runciman/
Regards
Lorna
Administrator RUNCIMAN Surname DNA Project
See also http://runciman.lornahen.com for a fairly fledgling RUNCIMAN One Name Study
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Hi all
I've just found this thread. I have a Janet Runciman (b1732 - ish) m Joseph Horsburgh 19 May 1753. That's all I have on her although I have their descendants running right down to myself. Does she link into anyone on this thread?
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I have also just found this post.The following names may be of use to someone .
My great uncle Patrick O`Brien b 25th Feb,1883 ,Dunbar ,East Lothian Scotland parents Patrick O`brien b Ireland ,and Bridget Gilhooly b Ireland .
Married 1919, St Giles,Edinburgh to Christine Runciman b 20th June 1885 , Dunbar ,East Lothian,Scotland ,parents Robert Runciman and Robina Devine m 1879 Dunbar ..
Robert`s Parents are Alexander Runciman and Jane Gillies ?
Robina`s Parents are William Devine and Elizabeth Leckie
EP
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I also have this , could be related ,married the day before Robert and Robina
James Whitecross, 23, Gladsmuir , East Lothian . s/o Peter Whitecross and Margaret Napier
married 11th April 1879 Margaret Runciman 21,Eastbarns ,Dunbar ,East Lothian d/o Thomas Runciman and Joan Wallaston /Wallersten ?
EP
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Ta EP
My genie program calculates that Robert (marr. to Robina) and Margaret (marr. to James WHITECROSS) are 2nd cousins.
Robert's mother was a Janet GRIEVE, Margaret's a Joan WATTERSTON
This relationship does however assume that both Robert's forbear, Robert RUNCIMAN (marr. to Agnes KING), and Margaret's, Alexander (marr. to Joan MANDERSON), are siblings and both descended from Thomas and Jane (SIMPSON) RUNICMAN
http://runciman.lornahen.com/lineages/p53262.htm is Robert (married to Agnes KING)'s page on the RUNCIMAN One Name Study
and Alexander of Meikle Pinkerton's page likewise
http://runciman.lornahen.com/lineages/p41510.htm
both or which outline the reasons discovered for believing so - and the doubts.
The plea for a living direct male line RUNICMAN descending of either or preferably both to check this theory out by being persuaded to join the RUNCIMAN Surname DNA project
http://dnasurnames.info/lineages/spRUNCIMANLineages.htm
still stands.
Regards
Lorna
http://RuncimansAll.blogspot.com
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Hi all
I've just found this thread. I have a Janet Runciman (b1732 - ish) m Joseph Horsburgh 19 May 1753. That's all I have on her although I have their descendants running right down to myself. Does she link into anyone on this thread?
Bit later than your post gordon5, but yes, Janet is the dtr of Richard RUNCIMAN/RYNSIMAN and Jennet/Janet GOURLAY on this line
http://runciman.lornahen.com/lineages/dcruncimanwilliamjamiesonwishart.htm
Also found on WikiTree where you can add your branch to the combined tree
http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Runciman-624
Bit of a long shot, but perhaps a FamilyFinder DNA test might just show up some shared segments of DNA with descendants.
Regards
Lorna
http://Runciman.lornahen.com