RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kinross-shire => Topic started by: tommacgregor on Tuesday 15 April 08 10:00 BST (UK)
-
Hello All,
Can anyone living around the Rumbling Bridge area of Kinross help me out.
I am led to understand that a Margaret Hay, born around 1795 at Rumbling Bridge married David Hepburn at Leslie in Fife on the 26th of February, 1815.
For some time I was under the impression that David had married a girl from Arngask in Fife, but came across a snippet of information recently suggesting that this was not the case and that he had married a local girl.
Although I now live in Melbourne, Australia, I was born in Fife, and spent my early childhood there. I am well aware that the distance between Leslie and Rumblingbridge is only about 7 miles.( If that!) To me, that's local.
No matter how hard I try, I am unable to locate that all-important connection between the birth of a Margaret Hay around 1795-1799, and her marrying David Hepburn.
I would be most grateful if anybody interested in Family History could help me out.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
-
Hello Tom,
I'm a country loon. A 'teuchter 'from Aberdeenshire.
A simple search of the IGI - all counties of Scotland - 1810 to 1850 brings up the following children to a David Hepburn and Margaret Hay - all 'extracted.
1. ANDREW HEPBURN Birth: 11 DEC 1815 Leslie, Fife, Scotland
2. WILLIAM HEPBURN Birth: 11 AUG 1817 Leslie, Fife, Scotland
3. JANET HEPBURN Birth: 03 AUG 1819 Leslie, Fife, Scotland
4. DAVID HEPBURNBirth: 26 MAY 1821 Leslie, Fife, Scotland
5. JAMES HEPBURN Birth: 10 MAR 1824 Leslie, Fife, Scotland
6. JOHN HEPBURN Birth: 13 JUN 1826
7. JOHN HEPBURN Christening: 12 SEP 1830 Leslie, Fife, Scotland
8. HEPBURN Male Christening: 12 SEP 1830 Leslie, Fife, Scotland
Regards, Steve :O)
I'm well aware that the last 3 may be the same person. With John being christened late? - or another birth - the first John having died. No.8 I'm guessing is also John?
Did this family emigrate or stay in the UK? - had a quick look for Margaret on the 1841 census and couldn't find her - got to run...............................
-
Hello Steve,
Many thanks for your kindness. The answer is John was born in 1826 but not christened until 1830. I'm starting to get answers to the Margaret Hay mystery. Received an e-mail from an elderly gentleman living in Cyprus who has taken the trouble to give me a huge amount of detail.
If you think that Scotland to Cyprus is a long swim, then believe me, it's a lot longer to Victoria in the south of Australia.
Again, many thanks for your help.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
-
The puzzle may be solved here Tom
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,299180.0.html
-
Hello All,
Having been given some interesting information from various kind individuals, I have been chipping away at various records from a part of Scotland that I don't really know much about - Kinross.
I don't think that many researchers really like to expose the skeletons in the closet when sharing the details about their ancestors, but, what the Hell, how many Family Tree's don't have an illegitimate birth in it somewhere?
DDJJake, our good friend, now residing in Cyprus, was able to point me in the right direction initially, and then Monica and Sancti came to my rescue confirming and expanding that information and giving me the opportunity to look at the whole picture from a different aspect.
It would appear, (I feel as if I'm walking on hot coals, so I'm treading very carefully!), that Margaret Hay, who married one of my Hepburn ancestors, David Hepburn, on the 26th of February, 1815, was born in 1779 around the Rumbling Bridge area of Kinross. Although I don't have a really good knowledge of this pretty part of Scotland, I do know that Rumbling Bridge is a mere spit away from Cleish in Kinross. Cleish, of course is only about 6 miles away from Ballingry - an area that I'm very familiar with, since a number of my close family lived there when I was just a wee bit younger!
Margaret would appear to have had a terrible start to her life since her mother, Janet More (or Moore?), died giving birth to her. Although her birth was illegitimate, it is assumed that her father was John Hay. I simply couldn't resist taking a look at yet another tragic episode in the lives of my ancestors, and so started to comb through what records I could find using the "tools" available to me.
Was Janet More (or Moore?), the daughter of John Moore? There is an Extracted Christening Record showing that a Janet was christened at Fossoway & Tulliebole in Kinross on the 17th of October, 1756. If this young lady was indeed the mother of Margaret Hay, then she would have only been about 24 years of age when she died in childbirth in 1779.
That was only the start of my search, and even though I have little hope in exposing the whole story, I believe that it is worth the effort to try to give some pieces of information to other researchers who may be researching the descendants of these individuals.
I will continue with this interesting story in my next posting.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
-
Hello Again,
Although I have no definitive proof of any connection to the individuals mentioned in my previous posting, one has to bear in mind that we are looking at places like Rumbling Bridge and Cleish in Kinross, and that the population of such places would certainly have not been all that large in the 1700's. Therefore, when I look at names such as Hay and Rutherford, I'm not in the least surprised to note how they keep cropping up in my searches.
O.K., let me try to put some flesh on the bones by mentioning that a William HAY married an Isabel RUTHERFORD on the 15th December, 1738 at Cleish, a mere four miles or so from Rumbling Bridge.
Their children were: (and these are Extracted birth/christening records):
William Hay christened 16th December, 1739 at Cleish in Kinross.
Isobell Hay christened 21st October, 1741 at Cleish in Kinross.
Marion Hay christened 17th June, 1744 at Cleish in Kinross.
John Hay christened 9th August, 1746 at Cleish in Kinross.
Marion Hay christened 30th April, 1749 at Cleish in Kinross.
Robert Hay christened 28th April, 1751 at Cleish in Kinross.
Janet Hay christened 11th April, 1753 at Cleish in Kinross.
Janet Hay christened 13th April, 1755 at Cleish in Kinross.
Agnes Hay christened 19th March, 1758 at Cleish in Kinross.
It would be easy for me to speculate that there could have been some connection between the John Hay, shown above ,and Janet More, but that would be pure speculation. What I would far rather see, is an in-depth examination of the individuals above, to see who they eventually married and who their children were.
In all probability there are descendants of the individuals listed above still living in the Fife/Kinross area, and they may just have some information about their ancestors that they would be willing to share with us.
I look forward to hearing from them, and, as always, I would ask other researchers out there to check the informtion that I have given before inserting it into their Family Tree.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
-
Hello again,
In my previous posting, I mentioned William Hay who married Isabel Rutherford on the 15th December, 1738 at Cleish in Kinross. In this posting I'm moving forward in time by about 80 years.
JOHN HAY married Janet RUTHERFORD on the 23rd of May, 1819 at Kinross. At this point in time I have no idea whether or how these two individuals may be connected.
Their children:
Elizabeth Hay. Extracted birth record born 9th May, 1820 at Cleish in Kinross.
Jean Hay. Extracted birth record born 9th February, 1822 at Cleish in Kinross.
Peter Hay extracted birth record born January, 1826 at Cleish in Kinross.
Janet Hay extracted birth record born 6th June, 1828 at Cleish in Kinross.
Jean Hay extracted birth record born 9th February, 1832 at Cleish in Kinross.
I believe that what we are looking at are some of the descendants of the Hay family living in Cleish, but again, I must caution that this is pure speculation on my part. However it is interesting to note the marriage between members of the Hay and Rutherford families.
In my next posting I will be taking a look at the marriage of another Hay, a William Hay who may be related to John.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
-
Hello again,
In this posting I want to show other researchers on RootsChat a few details about a WILLIAM HAY who married Elizabeth (Betty) PATON on the 3rd of January, 1819, (about four months prior to the marrige between JOHN HAY and JANET RUTHERFORD.
Their children:
John Hay extracted christening 18th January 1820 at Cleish in Kinross.
William Hay extracted christening 16th December, 1821 at Cleish in Kinross.
John Hay extracted christening 10th December, 1822 at Cleish in Kinross.
Jean Hay extracted christening 17th March, 1824 at Cleish in Kinross.
Betty Hay extrcted christening 21st November, 1826 at Cleish in Kinross.
Robert Hay extracted christening 30th January, 1829 at Cleish in Kinross.
Adam Hay extracted christening 23rd April, 1831 at Cleish in Kinross.
I would be delighted to hear from any descendants of the individuals that I have mentioned in the above postings. Naturally enough, I will be more than willing to share with them details of my ancestors going forward in time from Margaret Hay who married David Hepburn on the 26th February, 1815 at Leslie in Fife.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
-
Hi Tom
Margaret Hay's father was confirmed as John Hay from Margaret's christening entry:
MARGARET HAY Christening: 23 APR 1783 Fossoway And Tulliebole, Kinross, Scotland
Parents:JOHN HAY and JANET M.
Monica :)
-
Hello Monica,
Many thanks for your kindness in confirming the father's name of Margaret Hay. It's pretty clear that the age of Margaret Hay when she died on the 15th February, 1864 at Prinlaws, Leslie is incorrect on the Death Certificate. It is given as 1885, and explains why I merely "pencilled in" a birthdate of 1779.
As you will have seen from my latest postings, I have been having a look at the Hay family living around Rumbling Bridge, Cleish, Kinross, etc., but, basically there are quite a few options relating to a John Hay. It's the same for Janet More (Moore?). All I know is that she died of childbirth in 1779. However, that brings me back to a birthdate of 1779 for her daughter, Margaret! It really is like being on a merrygoround, isn't it?
Again, I greatly appreciate your continuing support.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
-
Tom
The date of 1783 for Margaret Hay from the OPRs is for her christening. She could well have been born earlier (1779 if you are certain of Janet Mo(o)re's death).
Regards.
Monica
-
Hello Monica,
Nice to hear from you. I've spent the entire day combing through my notes and feel a bit glum about the results. To be frank, I'm not too happy about the lack of info on Andrew Hepburn, the "assumed" father of David Hepburn, who married Margaret Hay.
One thing that I did do was to take a long, cool look at the names of his children - one in particular: Cecilia Hepburn b/chr 7th November, 1781 at Leslie in Fife. Try as I may, I couldn't find another Cecilia in the Hepburn family before that date. However, I actually did find a Cecilia Reekie (spelling option!) who was christened on the 27th December, 1741 at Cults in Fife. Her parents were James Reekie (spelling option!) and Ann Brown who married on 19th February, 1741. There are two Extracted Marriage Records for the same day. One at Cults in Fife, and the other at Kennoway in Fife.
When I look at the date of the marriage of Andrew Hepburn to Janet Reekie, i.e. 6th July, 1764 (extracted), that gives me a rough idea of when the birth date would be. Can't find a damned thing that makes any sense!
What is quite frustrating, is that time and time again, I appear to be taken back to my old "clapped-out" Family Tree - to the Hepburns of Abbotshall. People like David Hepburn who married Janet Murrie in June 1688, their son, David Hepburn who married Christian Staines in July 1716, Alexander Hepburn who married Agnes Reid in March, 1793, and so on and so forth. All of that I covered quite extensively on my postings on the Hepburn's some time ago. However, the big problem is that David Hepburn, who married Margaret Hay, appears to have died some time after the birth of his son, John Hepburn who was born in 1826 and christened in 1830. That means - no Death Certificate!
Well, I'm rattling on like Thomas the Tank, so I'll just say, thanks a million for the continuing support.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
-
TOM !!!!!
You could well be my salvation, I am related to the very same David Hepburn and Margaret Hay, however I cant find one scrap of info on Davids DOB or DOD, therfore stoppig me from moving up my tree. Re Margaret I have their date of marraige her DOD and her birth c1779. I'm praying that your still around on here as I really am stuck, it would appear from this that you and I are connected.
Any help would be appreciated
Kind Regards
Chaz
-
One Grave in Crook of Devon 74A
"John Hay late farm servant at Aldie Castle 30.10.1848 73"