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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: coffeeaddict on Sunday 20 April 08 14:05 BST (UK)
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Hi
These are my family name intrests from The Lye and surrounding areas.
Gauden (spelling changed to Gorden by my g/grandfather at marriage)
Pardoe
Drew
Newey
Freeman
Noke
I think there is a Cartwright connection as well.
Anyone else researching above names??
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Hi CA
I have a James Gauden in my tree he married my great grand aunt Betsy Rhodes at Christ Church Old Swinford Lye in 1860.
Julia :)
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Hi
I have a book called "Lye & Wollescote - The Photographic collection by Pat Dunn. It mentions a William Pardoe lived at 175 High St. William and his son were both photographers. It also mentions an A Pardoe who was in the Lye Unitarians Football Club - 1920-1. A Sam Pardoe in the Lye Cricket Club, 2nd Eleven, 1924. The Coronation Cttee on 1911 had a Major Pardoe. Major Pardoe was born in 1860 in Skeldings Lane and attended Lye Church School. In June 1882 was head of Crabbe St School and retired in 1925. Died in 1950 (there is a photo of him in the book). There is also a photo of Bill Pardoe the photographer who was born on 18 September 1904. Died in Scotland in 1991. Hope this helps.
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After having another look at my book, I have come across the following:
? Freeman was in the Lye Football Club 1911/12 (there is a photo of the team)
A photo of a Gary Newey making a small metal casting at Woolridge's, 1970.
A Jepthah Freeman was in the Wollescote Albion Football team 1909 as was an Elijah Freeman (there is a photo of the team)
A wedding photo of Colin Pardoe (father was Major Pardoe) who married Madge Round on 17 April 1939 at Pedmore Church.
The author Pat Dunn launched the Lye and Woollescote History Society. If any of the names I have given you are members of your family it may well be worth buying the book.
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Thanks both,
Freddiebean, I'm not sure about James Gauden do you know of his parents siblings etc?
OllieH I know major Pardoe is an offshoot of ours but iwill try and get the book you mentioned.
Yhank you both
C A
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Hi CA
Sorry I haven't a lot of info' on the Gauden side, it seems that Betsy and James had two sons Thomas born 1861 and James Robert 1866, So maybe James's dad was a Thomas :-\
Just found more info' James dad was Thomas and mum was Mary Chance
Julia :)
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I have Jemima Pardoe 1788 Married Joseph Yardley, Mary Pardoe 1768 Married John Yardley and Mary Ann Pardoe 1858 who Married William H. Yardley. I think the name Pardoe was very common in Lye, bit like Smith!
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Hi Coffeeaddict
I have lots of Cartwrights in lye, including Sarah Cartwright who married Sargant Gauden in 1888. (isn't Sargent a wonderfully unusual forename!)
Sarah x
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G'day all in these postings. I have all these names and more in my Family Tree and would be more than willing to share info. I am connected via the many Chance families in the Lye, Oldswinford and Birmingham towns of Worcestershire.
It may be best if we could probably ask specific questions or, if you see me on line at any time, maybe we could go to a room to discuss same.
best of luck with your research
Leigh
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Hello Leigh, I have Joseph Chance born 1832 son of Enoch and Susannah Bashford, any connections to you? linell.
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G'day Linell,
To tell you the truth, I have (without a word of a lie) 6 Enoch Chances and, to date and still growing, 22 Joseph Chance's would you believe, Enoch being the fathers of and sons of Joseph, everywhere. The seemed to have bred like rabbits.
As I said, I am still a long way away from finalising this list so maybe it might help if you gave me some other surnames that are connected to this part of your tree which may help me identify someone for sure.
Looking forward to hearing from you soon,
Leigh
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Hi Leigh
Do you have Robert, Stephen, sarah and Jane Chance in your tree?
Julia
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Goodness Leigh, I didn't realise there were that many Enochs. Ok this is what I have:-
Enoch 1805 Marries Susanna Bashford , son John 1826 Marries Sarah Griffiths, their children Mira 1848, John T 1858 Marries Matilda Davis, Benjamin 1860 and James 1865.
Joseph 1832 second son of Enoch Married Praise Yardley, their children Ann Elizabeth 1854, Mary Jane 1856 Marries Alfred Pope, Joseph Elijah 1859 Marries Matilda ?, Leah Chance 1863.
Peter 1832 third son of Enoch Marries Caroline Smith, their children Harriett 1858, Peter 1860, Charles 1863, Susan 1868 Marries (1) Ephraim Smith and (2) Jeremiah Bingham, Mary Ann 1870, Elias 1873, John 1877.
Benjamin 1834 fourth son of Enoch.
Jesse 1837 Fifth son of Enoch Marries Eliza Stinsley, their children Enoch 1858, John 1860, Mary Jane 1863, Susannah 1866, Timothy 1868 Marries Phoebe Ann Hill, Daniel 1870, Eliza 1872, Clara 1874, Jesse 1876, Joseph 1878.
Daniel 1838 sixth son of Enoch Marries (1) Susanna Hart, their children Mary E. 1860, George H. 1862, Benjamin 1864, John 1867, Susanna 1869, (2) Patience Weston their children Daniel Joseph 1875, Mary Ann 1875.
Mary 1841 Daughter of Enoch
Enoch 1844 Seventh son of Enoch
Timothy 1847 Eigth son of Enoch Marries Eva Wooldridge , their children Myra and Susannah 1882.
I have some more generations but will leave that for later. Regards linell.
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G'day Linell,
Yes, we are certainly talking about the same branch in my tree and have I got some great news for you! That is if you wish to get a full 67 page Word document detailing this branch of the Chance family and its associated twigs?
You could email me at
MODERATOR COMMENT: email address removed to avoid spam and other abuses. Please use personal message system to share email addresses and other personal details. Thank You
and I will forward the report to you via email if you are on broadband.
Best regards
Leigh
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Hi. I have a Katherine Chance c1809 in my tree who married a william skelding( st marys oldswinford) in 1829. They had around 16 children. Thought it was worth passing this info on.
Regards Alison (quarry bank.west midlands)
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HI. I have NEWEY,CHANCE AND SKELDING IN MY FAMILY TREE. Seem to remember a cousin Colin Gordon aswell.He would be about 45ish from pedmore/wollescote area.
Alison
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Is anyone out there looking at Gadd, Southall or Liveter?
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Have you added and checked your names in the Surname Interests Table?
The link is via "Your Surname Interests". Found at the bottom of every page
David
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I have Southalls from Cradley and Lye. linell.
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Hi everyone.
Just been reading through peoples surname interests, and wondered if any of you have come across the given FIRST name of Squire, or Esquire in your families.
It seems to have been connected to quite a few families in the Lye area and I'd be interested to know where it came from? The surname Squires? Names it seems to tie in with are GAUDEN, TAYLOR, HART, HILL, BINGHAM, FARLEY, CHANCE/CHAND, BAKER, BRADLEY, DICKENS, KNOWLES, TORDOFF
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It occurs in my Primett family but that is in Beds and Herts not the Lye area.
David
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I have just started looking into my family history and have discovered a John Pardoe who was born in Lye. He was married to a Jane Lye although it would seem he left the area to move to Yorkshire (a place called Ledsham) where he lived with my great great grandmother. They went on to have several children. We get the impression from family stories that this was a huge scandal and not discussed. John Pardoe's father was Richard Pardoe and we believe they must have been a fairly wealthy family - they certainly had servants and a horse and carriage. Can anyone help me further. THis is my first posting on this site so I hope I have done this message correctly.
thanks, Vanessa
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oops - just spotted my first mistake - John Pardoe was married to Jane Pardoe (not Jane Lye) but they came from Lye near Worcester.
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What birth date do you have for John vcsanderson? I have John Pardoe born about 1853 son of George Pardoe and Elizabeth Brooks. 1851 they were in Dudley Road Lye. I don't have a Marriage for this John? Are you sure that your John Married a Jane Pardoe, or is that just a submitted entry from the IGI? Best Wishes from linell.
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sorry its taken so long to reply - my mother had all the details.
this is what we know :
John H Pardoe born in Lye in 1840
father's name we think was Richard Pardoe.
died in either 1901 or 1902 at 10 Top Row, Ledsham Newton, parish of Leeds
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Hi Vanessa, think this is them, they look a well off family, Richard was a Butcher.
1851 Census Turnpike Road Lye (that would be the main High Street which is now the Stourbridge Road, runs from Halesowen to Stourbridge.
Richard Pardoe Butcher 49 All family born Lye
Mariah Wife 46 Butchers Wife
Mary D 21 School Mistress
Sarah D 18 Infant School Teacher
Eliza D 16 Assists with Housework
Jane D 13
John Henry Son 11
Henry Joseph Son 7
Charles Richard Son 3
Next door is
Thomas Pardoe 51 U Nail Maker
John Pardoe Brother 65 Proprietor of Houses
They could be relalted to Richard?
Best Wishes from linell.
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thank you so much for this information - my mum will be able to confirm but if it is them then we have solved a family mystery that has gone on for years. Are you related to this family tree? thanks Vanessa
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Hi Vanessa, I think Richard's wife was Maria Hutton, they Married 29.5.1826 Kingswinford St Mary's. I don't know where you live but there are a selection of Books on Lye written by ( think it was Bill Pardoe from Lye.) I read them a few years ago from my Local Library. I do have some Lye Pardoe connections, but not your rich family :) Best Wishes from linell.
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thanks Linell - I will try and get hold of the books. The family you mention is definitely my family. John Henry (one of the young boys was my great great grandfather). Its all very interesting and quite obsessisve (I've only really just got into this family tree lark!). Hope I have lots of rich relatives I can find !!!!! (only joking).
I really appreciate all your help. thanks so much, Vanessa
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Hello all
Some Pardoe information:
Richard Pardoe b 1802 d 1887 was the son of Joseph Pardoe 1758 & Jane Brook 1761.
The 1871 census shows Richard as butcher & farmer of 12 acres. Even at the ripe age of 79 in 1881 he has the occupation of cow keeper. The enumeration district 2E for Lye in 1851 commences at Mr Richard Pardoe's butchers shop on the south side of the Stourbridge to Halesowen Turnpike road.
Joseph and Jane had 12 children and I know of three who were butchers - the aforesaid Richard, my gg grandfather George 1787 and Joseph 1793.
John 1785 and Thomas 1800 living next door to Richard in 1851 are indeed the batchelor brothers of Richard, and George and Joseph. The rest of the family was Betty 1782, Mary 1789, Jenny 1791, Elizabeth 1797, William 1798 and another Betty in 1804.
The set of books mentioned are authored by Pat Dunn who has written three so far in a series entitled 'Britain in Old Photographs - Lye and Wollescote', the same as a 'Second Selection' and the latest as the 'Third Collection', the first was written in conjunction with the late Denys Books. They appear quite often on ebay and in online booksellers catalogues. Bill Pardoe and his father, the photographer William Pardoe, are mentioned in various places in these books.
I have more on Pardoes if you are interested.
Arlen
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<The set of books mentioned are authored by Pat Dunn who has written three so far in a series entitled 'Britain in Old Photographs - Lye and Wollescote', the same as a 'Second Selection' and the latest as the 'Third Collection', the first was written in conjunction with the late Denys Books. They appear quite often on ebay and in online booksellers catalogues. Bill Pardoe and his father, the photographer William Pardoe, are mentioned in various places in these books.>
Hi Arlen, I didn't mean the 'Britain in Old Photographs' Series, Bill Pardoe has written at least three books in his own right, I have read them, your local Library can obtain them for you. HTH from linell.
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thank you so much for this information Arlen. I would love more info on the Pardoe family. John Henry Pardoe (born 1840) is my great great grandfather. We have been trying to get to the bottom of a family mystery for a long time and now we feel we have are getting there. This is the story that has been passed down through the generations :
My great great grandmother (Rosannah Langham), was a servant to a family called Dr John Adams (1881 census - age 20 - Wolstanton / Burslam district). We are not sure how they met but she did meet John Henry Pardoe at some point. At this time John was married to wife Jane Cannock Holloway Curnock. John and Jane had 6 children. It would appear that John Henry and my great great grandmother had a relationship and my great great grandmother became pregnant (we assume to John Pardoe but we are not sure). We think that the Pardoe family married her off to a chap named John Grunnell (married in 1884 in Burslam). We think this marriage was obviously for convenience and John Grunnell did not stick around. Rosannah's first child was born in 1885 in Burslam (Amelia Ellen). John Henry Pardoe seems to have left his wife Jane (and their children) to abscond with my great great grandmother and they settled in a place called Newton / Ledsham which was in the parish of Leeds. It is actually now a suburb of Castleford (West Yorkshire). John and Mary stayed together until his death in 1901 (or it could have been 1902). They had 5 children themselves, one of whom was my great grandmother Mary Ellen Pardoe Grunnell (born 21 Nov 1889). Rosannah and John Pardoe never married and we do not believe Rosannah ever divorced John Grunnell hence she kept the surname Pardoe-Grunnell. There are lots of other little quirky stories but ultimately it would seem John Henry Pardoe had a legitimate family (to Jane) and an illegitimate family to Rosanna. Obviously back in those days this must have been shameful and I suppose that is why a lot of this info has been kept secret for such a long time. It certainly wasn't discussed openly and we could never quite get to the bottom of it all.
thanks again so much - I am intrigued and excited to learn more!
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Hello Linnell
Thanks for the response. Sorry for suggesting the wrong set of books, you mentioned three and that was the only collection on Lye that I know of. Bill Pardoe was my father and as far as I am aware he did not write any books on local history in Lye. He did give illustrated lectures on the changes in the Lye and Stourbridge areas throughout the sixties and seventies and was a regular contributor to the Black Country Magazine - perhaps you are thinking of these? He wrote about 'Teacher Ellen', 'The Stourbridge Lion', 'The First Hospital Carnival at Lye' and 'Early Film Relics'. He did write two books, one on Witley Court - 'Witley Court and Church - Life and Luxury in a Great Country House' and 'Two Stourbridge Locomotives' based on his Black Country Magazine article. His photographic collection was placed in Stourbridge Library.
After his death I printed a collection of his recollections in a booklet 'Memories' given out at his memorial service in Lye Church and this can be read on my brother's website:
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pardos/MemMain.html
I wonder which Pardoes were in your family?
Regards
Arlen
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Hello Vanessa
We obviously have my 3xgreat grandfather Joseph Pardoe 1758 as a common ancestor. He was the father of Richard 1802 and George 1787.
Richard was the father of your rather interesting relative John Henry 1840. George was the father of William 1828 then William 1862 and my father Bill (also, of course, a William) born in 1904. As a side line I had no further information on John Henry and yours is fascinating! So hello, cousin.
My picture, taken by grandfather William, shows my father Bill surrounded by his sisters Florence Mabel (Maisie), Gertrude Elsie (Trudie), Floss Rose (Floss) and Azubah Elizabeth (Zu).
As far as I can tell the Pardoe line goes back further, though the further back you go the less sure you can be without too much being available.
My research suggests:
Joseph Pardoe 1758 married Jane Brook 1761 in 1781 and had 12 children, including our Richard and George.
Thomas Pardoe 1724 married Mary Farmer 1722 in 1744 and they had 7 children including the above Joseph 1758
Joseph Pardoe ? married Sarah Perks ? in 1716 and had 4 children including the above Thomas 1724.
That's as far back as I can go. I can give you the source references if you want to check them out yourself.
I also see that Linell has John Pardoe 1753, the son of George Pardoe and Elizabeth Brooks. My gg grandfather George 1787, married to Jemima Wooldridge 1786, had a son George (also a Lye butcher) in 1815. This must be the same George as yours, Linell, because he married Elizabeth Brookes 1824 in 1845 and they had 5 children including John Brookes Pardoe in 1853.
John Brookes Pardoe married Elizabeth Bullingham 1853 in 1873 and the line continues down from there.
I hope the names followed by birthdate make sense to everyone - its the only way I can keep track of the different ancestors with the same first names.
Let me know your thoughts on this!
Arlen
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hello Cousin (if somewhat distant!!!)
isn't if fascinating - we've spent years searching for all of this and in the space of a few days we've found out so much.
Do you have any other Pardoe photos which might be of interest?
thanks
Vanessa
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Hi Arlen, this is the set of books I read:- http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pardos/MemMain.html
Is the picture of your Grandfather? As for my Pardoe's I have Jemima born 1788 who Married Joseph Yardley. Joseph was my 4xGt Grandfather. I also have Jane Brooks 1761 who Married your Joseph Pardoe, I am connected to them through the Brooks line. I have Mary Ann Pardoe 1858 daughter of Wm and Elizabeth, Mary Ann Married Wm Yardley a Cousin of my Yardleys. Mary Pardoe 1768 Married John Yardley, this John was the brother of Joseph above who Married Jemima Pardoe. Then I have the George Pardoe and Elizabeth Brooks line that you mentioned in your post. I also have loads of Wooldridges, these Lye families, just Married their neighbours, they are all connected I feel. I did find the Wooldridge Tomb at Old Swinford when I went there last year, it was still readable and had a lot of information on it. Nice to be in touch with you and Vanessa from linell.
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Vanessa,
Its typical of this game. You spend ages getting nowhere then make a leap forward. As far as family pictures go, I only go back to my grandparents on the Pardoe side. Dad was the youngest and was always a bit upset not to get the family albums. I am the only one of my generation to propogate and it would have been nice to have more pictures of my forebears to pass on to my two grandchildren.
Linell,
I am glad we cleared that one up. We are singing from the same sheet after all! Our relation is through the Brooks line, I have only one Yardley in my tree Jane Yardley 1760 who married Francis Wooldridge 1754 in 1781. Though who knows, if you go back far enough the Pardoe line must converge somewhere. Dash it all, why couldn't they keep good records. I agree about marrying your neighbours, that is a very consistant thread throughout.
I do have a fair few Wooldridges in my tree and we may have some common ground there. Two of these are Jemima who I mentioned in my last post and Betty Wooldridge ? who married Joseph Pardoe 1814 in 1841. She died only 2 years later, I suspect bearing her first child. As far as I know she was not related to Jemima but there is more research to be done there. Joseph 1814 was the son of Joseph 1793, one of the trio of Pardoe butcher brothers. Sounds like something out of a western or a horror movie!
The young lad in the photo is my father Bill aged about 10. Enclosed are pictures of my paternal grandparents William Pardoe 1862 and Myra Homer 1865.
Best wishes to you both
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Hi Arlen, many thanks for the reply, how fascinating, love the pictures, Myra Homer looks very elegant, she couldn't have been born in Lye Waste! Don't like to mention this, but I also have some Homers in my tree, not Myra, I just checked, most of mine were from Cradley Heath.
I do have a Jane Yardley born Lye 1761, but I have her death as 1762, so is that wrong, or is she the Jane who Married Francis Wooldridge, it is impossible to tell when you get back that far isn't it!
I have lots of Wooldridges, but cannot link them up to one family line. Have you thought that the Pardoe's could have been descended from the Hungarian Glass Makers who settled in the area in the 15th Century, is the name Pardoe only associated with Lye, I've not seen it anywhere else?
Vanessa if you get on Ebay there are some Lye Books for sale on there, you may well find some Pardoe pictures there. Best Wishes from linell.
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Hi Linell, you certainly get me thinking about things. Myra was either born on Waste Bank (her parents were there in 1861, 4 years before her birth) or close by (they are in Bromley Street in 1871). The photo would have been taken, I think, in the early 1900s when William had changed his profession from clay miner (hard but a regular income) to photographer (better working conditions but no guaranteed income) and they were living in Vicarage Road, Lye.
As to the origins of the surname Pardoe, you are probably close - though I suspect it was the Lorraine glassmakers rather than those from Hungary that provided the rootstock for the line. An interesting article here:
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/h/e/n/Barry-M-Henzell/FILE/0004page.html
I have two lines of Homers, Grandmother Myra was a direct line, her father was Frederick 1824 and her grandfather was John 1794. An aunt on my mothers side married a Homer - John Tye Forrest Homer 1879 whose father and grandfather were Apollos 1832 and Jesse 1797, from Cradley. Incidently I also have a Sidaway - Aunt Floss married Arthur Sidaway 1896 in 1921.
I think the Yardley connection is too far back for certainty but the Wooldridges and Pardoes were quite common in the Waste. Betty, mentioned before marrying Jospeh Pardoe, lived close to him only a few pages separated in the 1841 census just before they married. Neighbours again!
Good luck with your researches
Arlen
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Hi Arlen, many thanks for the Glass Making Link, shall have to have a good read of that. I agree Pardoe does sound rather french doesn't it :) I see Myra Homer made a good move from Lye Waste to Vicarage Road. Have you visited the area, not much left of the Waste now?
I did find these entries from the Old Swinford Poor Law:-
Sarah Pardoe entry 124 1761 Removed from Old Swinford to Ambelcote. Widow of Joseph with four children Elizabeth 1746, Martha 1748, Joseph 1752, Thomas 1756, found begging in Newington Surrey.
Richare Pardoe Nailer entry 161 1770 from St Chad Shrewsbury with Ann (late Griffiths) Widow and son George born 1765.
Joseph Pardoe entry 183 1773, Vagabond from Whistons Worcs to Old Swinford.
Obviously none of our respectable french glassmakers! Best Wishes linell.
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Hi Vanessa there is a Lye Book for sale on Ebay at the moment, from the Britain in Old Photograph Series. linell.
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Hi Linell
Well, we all have those family members we don't mention!
Came across a good description of life on the Waste here:
http://www.victorianlondon.org/publications4/strange-28.htm
It certainly puts the picture of the mud hut into context.
Another photo taken in the late 1890s of my 3 aunts with their Aston cousins.
All the best, Arlen
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Hi Arlen and Linnell
I was away over the weekend (at my mums doing family history !!!!!).
I will look to see if the book is still for sale on e-bay.
Best regards to you both
Vanessa
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Hi Arlen, that's an absolute gorgeous picture, so cute and so natural, what a treasure for you to pass on, do you know who all the girls are?
Thanks for the link, I have read it before, that is why I was shocked to hear that your very elegant Myra Homer was born there!
Just checked your surname interests, I also have Lye Astons, Pearsons and Crumptons and Bloomers from Cradley. Will do a quick check list tomorrow.
Vanessa hope you had a fruitful weekend with your research, best wishes from linell.
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me and my mum were trying to get everything written down but you soon run out of space trying to draw your family tree on a piece of A4 paper. Don't suppose you know of a website that allows you to do this for free do you? thanks
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Linnell, as far as I can tell the names of the children in the photo are as follows:
The three in the darker clothes are Astons. Father had them labelled as Esther, Harriet & Edith, going from left to right. Correspondance with his granddaughter has now suggested that the one on the left is in fact Fred Aston. Esther (known as Tet) was not born until 1899 and my Aunt Floss would have been at least 3 by the time the picture was taken and so would have been in the picture. If the picture was indeed taken in 1895/6 then Fred would have been 2 or 3 years old, which looks about right.
So, the Aston children are Fred 1893, Harriet (Hattie) 1889 & Edith 1891. The Pardoe children in the lighter outfits are Azubah (Zu) 1887 on the left, Mabel (Maisie) 1889 at the back and Gertrude (Trudie) 1891 at the front.
Both Maisie and Trudie emigrated to the States in the 1920s and lived there for the rest of their lives. Dad always said Zu (the eldest) was the bossy one and doesn't she look the part in the photo!
If you have Astons, Pearsons, Cramptons & Bloomers then we have a lot more common ancestors.
If Phoebe Bloomer 1848 is there (she was my great grandmother) then I have her picture. She married John Crampton 1846 in 1869.
Looking forward to your ancestors in these lines.
Arlen
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Hello Vanessa,
you are doing eveything right. I managed to sit down with both my mother and mother-in-law years ago and got them talking about relations. This was before the internet and before computer programs, although these were useful later on. Just get anything written down. It may not always make sense at the time but even now, 25 years later, I look at the notes I made talking to my mother and see something new. With the information I now have, from the internet and email correspondances, I would dearly love to go back and ask more questions but it is too late. I do very much value what I did get at that time. I know of people who have taped what their parents have to say - it always amazed me how much they could remember. I have to scurry back to my computer to remind myself, maybe that's an age thing!
As far as putting it all together, there are a number of aids out there. My Heritage is freely available.
http://www.myheritage.com/family-tree-builder
I started off using Brothers Keeper
http://www.bkwin.org/
I now use Family Tree Maker, a program you have to buy (though they do include access to Ancestry data for various lengths of time). It all comes down to choice and what suits you.
There will be other free programs out there as well. Any of them will store your data and display a family tree for you, though as you add more people it will get quite complex. They will all be able to export a Gedcom file to use in other programs.
I would also encourage you to keep records for your sources of information. I have scanned all the written notes I have, saved all the emails and kept a personal copy of all the census and IGI materials found online. At first I printed them out but that became unmanageable (and expensive!) so I now keep electronic copies of everything. It is then always there to consult again later. Backups are also important!
Good luck
Arlen
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Hi Arlen, you do have a lot of lovely pictures, I do love the one of Fred, Edith, Harriett, Zu, Mabel and Trudie the best. Love the name Azubah, new one on me, is it from the Bible? I've not gone that far with my Astons, I only have them up to 1861, they are not my direct line, so not done too much on them. You have to call a limit somewhere, I already have 8500 Ancestors in my tree, mainly because of all the connections, you know how they all marry into each others families. I have Sarah Aston born 1834 her parents were Richard or John Aston born 1810 and an Ann, Sarah Married Joseph Elijah Yardley in 1855. I don't have a Phobe Bloomer born 1848 or John Crampton born 1846, although I have other Phoebe and John's. Were your Bloomers and Cramptons from Cradley? Best Wishes from linell.
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thanks for the tips.
best regards
Vanessa
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Linnell
It looks like we don't have any common ancestors along these lines. Fine on drawing limits, else you can go on forever. It is probably more relevant to try to follow back the direct lines, especially those you feel should go back further but resist all attempts so to do. Having said that, you sometimes need to follow back on surnames in two branches to see if they have a common ancestor. It keeps you busy!
Yes, the Bloomers and Cramptons were from Cradley. Phoebe was from Colley Lane, John from Lyde Green. He originally worked in an Iron Works but they moved to Netherend and he was a farmer by 1901. Here he is, later in life.
All the best
Arlen
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got 2 of the books you both mentioned by Pat Dunn - interesting to see old pictures of Lye. It doesn't look a wonderful place - quite impoverished to say the least. Arlen - do you have any photos of the Pardoe photographer shop? It seems most of the portraits done shown in Pat's books are taken there - it was obviously the best photographic studio in town !!!!!
thanks Vanessa
ps. would be interested to see any other Pardoe photos you might have. I now have all of Richard's siblings on the family tree (although I seem to be missing 1). Am I right in thinking that Joseph (1758) and Jane Brook (1761) had 12 children? If so, I only have 11 names (Joseph, George, John, Thomas, Betty, Mary, Richard, Jenny, Elizabeth, William and another Betty).
We have also found that out that great great grandmother (Rosanna Langham) worked as a servent for a Dr Adams in nearby Ombersley. How she met John Henry Pardoe from Lye is anyone's guess but somewhere along the lines they met and their interesting relationship began.
best regarsds
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Glad to hear you managed to get the books Vanessa.
Arlen, my Cramptons are also from Lyde Green Cradley. I see that John 1846's parents were Henry born 1805 son of Wm and Phobe and wife Mary. My line is Sarah Mansell 1805 (sister of my Gtx2 Grandmother Mary,) Married Jonathan Crampton born 1806, Sarah and Jonathan Married 1828. Jonathan died young and Sarah re-married. Going back to Jonathan born 1806, he was the son of Jonathan 1778 and Phoebe Parkes. I then have Jonathan's going back to 1748 and 1720. Your William, Henry's father must fit in somewhere, do you have anymore on his father William? Lyde Green was a small community, they were all related I am sure. The Cradley 1782 Field Survey lists a Henry Crampton Light Green as renting a house, nail shop and garden from the Lord of the Manor. I think the Henry's and Jonathan's must be connected. Netherend is only the next field to Lyde Green, I used to work in Lyde Green! Best Wishes from linell.
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Hi Arlen, I found some notes on Widow Mary Crampton Lyde Green 1857 written by the then Cradley Vicar Rev J.H. Thompson. He says that Mary is the sister of Mrs Hingley, Mrs Edmunds and Mrs Harris, do you have them? Son Wm is listed as aged 20 in May chainmaker attends Church. Elizabeth aged 19 in August Nailer attends Night School at Church is walking out with a EW? Phoebe aged 19 in August Nailer (are Elizabeth and Phoebe twins?) Sarah aged 15 August Nailer, Henry 12 August Chainworker attends Sunday School, John aged 10 Chainworker attends Sunday School, Thomas aged 8 August Chainworker attends Sunday School. Strange how most the children all seem to have birthdays in August?
Here are the notes for John Bloomer, Colley Lane 1857, John was a Foreman for Noah Hingley's Chain Works and a Methodist Wesleyan, Eliza also attends the Wesleyan Chapel. Children Caleb a Wesleyan and a Chain Maker, Philip a Wesleyan and a Chainmaker, Mary Ann aged 14 Nov chainworker attends Wesleyan Night and Sunday School, Sarah 12 chainworker was Wesleyan School now C of E Sunday School, Phoebe 9 Nurse, (think this means she looked after her younger siblings) attends Wesleyan School, Ezra 6 attends Wesleyan School, Emma 4 and Amos 2. In 1863, the notes are the same for John and Eliza, daughter Mary Ann is now in the same household Married to David Priest, a Horse Nail Maker, has taken the Sacrament, they have a son John 1 in July. Sarah is also Married to David Harris with son Joseph. Phoebe is aged 15 still a Nurse attends the Wesleyan Ragged Sunday School, Ezra 12 in Dec chainworker attends Wesleyan Night School, Emma 12 in Sep also a Nurse attends National School and the Ragged Sunday School, Amos 8 in Oct attends National School and Ragged School. Alfred 5 in March Lame attends National School, Edgar 2 in Nov. You may already have some of this Arlen? Best Wishes from linell.
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Hi Vanessa
I have a lot of pictures of my father's generation but he did not get his father's photographic collection, that went to his elder sisters then their children and are now lost as far as I know. He was, I know, quite disappointed not to get them and of all the descendants of William 1862 I am the only one who has kept the line going, having two sons and two grandchildren. Such is life.
William built three studios that I know of. He had one when they lived in Vicarage Road, a timber building, and built another in timber when they moved to 179 High Street Lye in the early 1900s. The final move to 175 High Street resulted in a more substantial brick building which is still there, albeit derelict. As his business tailed off in the 1920s Bill Pardoe took over the building, renting it from his father and eventually purchasing it from William's estate in 1943. I have a picture of the interior of the building in 1929 but it does not show anything of the photographic studio.
There is also a picture of the house at 175 High Street in 1917 with Gertrude Pardoe standing in the doorway. In the lower left corner of the photo there is a display case and I have added a close up - it shows men in uniform, an important part of the business during the first world war taking pictures of loved ones going off to fight.
In your list of siblings of Richard 1802 there should be two Williams. William 1795 died 19 February 1798 and the next male child born later that year was also named William.
Regards, Arlen
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Vanessa
It only allowed 2 pictures; here is the closeup of the display frame:
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Hi Linell
Some good information in your postings, thank you. I presume you have the full books of the notes of the Rev Thompson - all I can find on the net are extracts. Maybe I should get copies from the Cradley Links bookshop.
William Crampton was born about 1778 and married Phoebe Whorton in 1803. Going further back is more difficult and there is the confusion of Crampton or Crumpton as the surname. It may be that William's parents were John Crampton and Eleanor Arnold but I cannot be sure of this. I believe Phoebe's parents are William Whorton and Sarah, again I am not sure. So, while I am sure there is common ground here, there is nothing definite (yet!)
Your second posting is full of references to members of my tree. Henry Crampton 1805 married Mary Winnall 1807 in 1836; he died in 1850 leaving her to bring up the family of 8 children. Mary was one of ten children to John Winnall ? and Elizabeth Heathcock 1786 so the three ladies mentioned will be her sisters. I will follow these up. Mary is a gg grandmother. It also looks as if Elizabeth and Phoebe are twins; maybe this is noted in the original Parish Records, rather than the transcripts or indexes.
John Bloomer 1807 is a gg grandfather. He was married twice, first to Ann Dunn who bore their sons Philip 1834 and Caleb 1832. He married Eliza Wyatt in 1838 and they had 11 children in total. The Rev. Thompson certainly fleshes out the lives of people and what is amazing to us now is how young children were working as nailers and chainmakers. In the 1871 census John is a Rate Collector. One area of research for the future is to find when John died (somewhere between 1871 & 1881) and where he was buried. I know Eliza was still living in 1901 and now 1911 is out I can find if she died between these dates.
My maternal grandmother Louisa 1882 was the daughter of Phoebe Bloomer 1848 and John Crampton 1846. They had seven children altogether and one was Jane Crampton 1869 - she photographed well as you can see here.
Thanks for the extra information
Regards
Arlen
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Hi Arlen, yes that is indeed a lovely picture of Jane Crampton, how many pictures do you have? <LOL> You are lucky..........
Yes the Cradley Vicars Notebooks have been transcribed and are for sale from the Cradley Links Web Site. They also have books of Wills and Court Rolls, I didn't see any Cramptons or Crumptons in there but there are loads of entries for Bloomers. Like you my Cradley families come to a full stop in the late 1700's a lot of records are missing or were not kept. I have John Worton baptised 1796 to another John and Ann, have no further trace on them. Found plenty of entries pre 1750 it is those missing 50 years which are the difficult bit. I do have a friend who has Winnell, Heathcock and Wyer or Wyatt in her tree, we merge on a few lines, I know she has connections to the Cramptons. Will get back to you with any other info I find on the above, best wishes from linell.
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Hi jandap,
Mrs Hingley, Mrs Edmonds and Mrs Harris are Mary Winnall's sisters.
Hannah married Benjamin Hingley in 1835, Rev Thompson lists 9 children.
Sarah married John Harris and had at least 6 children.
Emma married Samuel Edmonds in 1855, I only have 5 children for them so far!
Abigail married Samuel Roper in 1845.
Samuel Edmonds was the son of Ingley Edmu/onds and Jane Warr.
Samuel Roper was the son of William and Ann Roper.
Hope this helps
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I am researching SKELDING, CARTWRIGHT (originally from Belbroughton), CHANCE, TAYLOR and many other names from the Lye.
Velda
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Hi Velda,
I also have Taylors in my tree, ~Grandma was Phoebe Ann Taylor born 1870, her parents were Simeon Taylor and Sarah Ann Perry.
Cember's OH
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My Grandmother Florence Selina Skelding nee Cartwright (1879-1929) was also known as Florrie Drybread because when she had a row with my Grandad Sidney (1877-1957) that's what she gave him for his packed lunch - or so the story goes.
Velda
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Thanks Linell,
I do have a few more pictures yet. I will post them when I can.
I have enquired about getting the Cradley Books and will read them with interest when they come. More links in the chain. I suppose wherever you look there are gaps in the records for whatever reason. And thanks for passing things on.
The first picture is taken, I guess, about 1900. The only information I have is that my maternal grandmother is second from the right in the middle row. The number of people do not exactly equate to my knowledge of the family but I would make a pretty confident guess at the following:
Back Row: ? ? ? ?
Middle Row: ?, Phoebe Crampton n. Bloomer 1848, John Crampton 1846, Louisa Crampton 1882, Howard Crampton 1873
Front Row: Lawrence Crampton 1779, ?
I know of 5 Crampton sisters - Jane 1869, Clara 1872, Florence 1875, Ellen Sophia (Nellie) 1877 and my grandmother Louisa 1882 and so five of the young women in the picture will be them. Don't you just love the hairstyles and the lacework on their shoulders?
Move forward about 40 years to 1937 and I have a picture of four of the Crampton girls, some now married.
I believe them to be Clara, Louisa (definite), Florence and Ellen. Clara was married to Ernest Tallis 1873, Louisa to Howard Pearson 1881, Florence was unmarried (and a hospital matron) and Ellen married John Tye Forrest Homer 1879.
More to come., Regards, Arlen
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Thanks, Cember, for your information. I will follow these up. Didn't they have large families!
Best Regards
Arlen
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Hi Arlen, am in awe of your pictures, they are wonderful. I do have some information for you from my friend Sheila, who has the same line as you, will post it on here for you. We must try and find a link for our Lyde Green Cramptons, there must be one! Will have a search for new information, best wishes from linell.
1. IGI John Winnall married Elizabeth Heathcock 5 Aug 1805 Halesowen, Worcs
2. IGI Christening 19 Nov 1815 Daughter Lucy Winnall to John Winnall & wife Elizabeth Halesowen, Worcs
3. IGI Marriage James Horton & Lucy Winnall 20 April 1835 Old Swinford
4. IGI Christening 21 Feb 1836 daughter Sarah Horton to James Horton & wife Lucy, Halesowen Worcs
5. James & Sarah & Family can be found in the 1841 Census
6. Lucy Horton nee Winnall died 25 Nov 1841 age 26 - Copy of death cert. obtained
7. James Horton - widower married Phebe Parkes spinster 4 Dec 1842 - Copy of marriage cert obtained - no children born from this marriage
8. Sarah Horton marriage to Thomas Rudge (parents William Rudge & Eliza nee Cartwright) 19 Dec 1858
9. Copy of birth cert obtained for Eliza Lucy Rudge to prove 'mother Sarah's' name was nee Horton - I believe that Eliza Lucy who appeared to have been named after the two grandmother's sadly died within about 2 years but I have not obtained the proving death certificate. see Census 1861 RG/9/2074 Folio 39 page 12(Sarah & Thomas are living in Sunbury, Middlesex in Census 1901 having migrated there together with son Edward (policeman), son Richard married to Louise nee Scott, son Thomas Charles married to Mary Susan nee Scott - my grandparents and Mary & Louise are sisters daughters of George Scott & Emily nee Wyer) plus a daughter Pamela married to Harry Johnson - all born in the Lye/Quarry Bank/Cradley areas) There is another younger son named Joseph Bertie married to Frances. He was away fighting in the Boer War and Frances Rudge can be found living in Green Street, Sunbury with 2 sons on 1901. Frances was born in Norfolk. His Army details can be found on the Army Pensions pages on Ancestry which includes his death certificate. He gives his brother Edward as next of kin.
10. Thomas Rudge (Sarah's husband) died 20 May 1912 Sunbury. Middlesex (this is recorded in Staines. Middlesex District)
11. Sarah Rudge nee Horton died age 94 18 November 1930 The Hall, London Road, Stanwell, Middlesex - Home address: The Alms Houses, Nursery Road, Sunbury, Middlesex - widow of Thomas Rudge - of 1. Myocardial Degeneration & 2. Senility.........copy of death certificate obtained.
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Linell, please thank your friend Shiela for her data. I had the first two but the rest are new information for me.
Here's another Crampton picture, one taken by my grandfather in his first studio in Vicarage Road, Lye. It is Howard, who is on the right and a little younger in the Crampton picture posted earlier.
Its funny how you keep finding new things going over old ground. I have found what I think are pictures of Phoebe Crampton in the 1920s (she died in 1920) with my mother's parents.
The 1911 census is another rich source, if somewhat expensive. We have had a skeleton in the family closet and the latest census release is opening avenues that may solve the riddles.
The moral is to keep looking!
Regards, Arlen
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My Lye surnames are:
Pardoe, Chance, Phipson, Yardley, Skelding, Bingham, Taylor, Westwood
They all link into the Phipson and Skelding branches that moved to North Staffordshire just before 1900.
Would be happy to exchange notes and info.
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Hi Rob
which Pardoe are you related to?
Vanessa
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Hi Vanessa
It's a distant link, but nevertheless part of my tree:
Ann Pardoe was my grt grt grt grt grt grt grandmother
b abt 1750, Old Swinford
m Samuel Bingham, 11 Sept 1773,
bur 8 Nov 1804
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Hi Rob
I think that we have corresponded before and that our families are linked.
Velda
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Hi Velda
Yes, I'm sure we have - possibly on Rootsweb over our Skelding rellies.
regards
Rob
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Hi
I am replying to post 50. (I hope I've written this correctly as I'm new to this board)
I have just started researching the Pardoe side of my family after several years of trying to find my gr grandfathers parents.
His mother was Jane Pardoe b abt 1833 and she was married to Joseph Freeman, also decended from the Pardoe family of Old Swinford.
I have traced the paternal line through to Anne Pardoe, possible daughter of Joseph Pardoe and Jane Brooks. Am I correct in thinking she may be the 12th child that is missing from the line up. She was baptised in 1777, which was before their marriage in 1781.
Would anyone be able to confirm this for me and also give me any clues on Jane Pardoe's parents.
Thanks in advance
Sue
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Hi Freddiebean
Do you by any chance have a Sarah Ann Rhodes born c1843 Bilston/Dudley/Tipton in your tree? She married a John Blakemore.
Judy
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Hi Sue
I am new to all this too so I am not going to be of much use to you but its interesting that we are all trying to find out about the Pardoe family. I belive Joseph Pardoe and Jane Brook did have 12 children but I don't have an Ann. Arlen has helped me with most of my info - maybe Arlen can help you with this? My link is with Richard Pardoe who was the one of the sons of Joseph and Jane. He was born 04/03/1802.
Good luck and best regards
Vanessa
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Hi Judy
No I don't think I have....sorry
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Hi Sue
Vanessa suggested I might have more to add. At this point I have to say that most of my information going back to the late 1700s and early 1800s has come from IGI records. There are precious few other records to go by; those that lived past 1841 are usually (but not always) to be found in census data. To some extent with the Pardoes their family names are a clue, passed down through the family, but there are a lot of common names in different branches of the family, the usuals such as William, John, Joseph, James, Thomas, George, Samuel amongst the males and Jane, Ann, Elizabeth, Betty, Sarah amongst the women, to just mention a few. I have a little verbal ancestral data but almost all these sources are no longer available.
I believe Joseph Pardoe 1758 and Jane Brook 1761 had 12 children with some names recycled for chidren that died young. There were 2 Bettys, 2 Williams, John, George, Mary, Jenny, Joseph, Elizabeth, Thomas and Richard, born in the years between 1782 and 1804.
I have had a look about for your names. You mention Jane Pardoe 1833 married to James Freeman- what is the source for this one? The nearest Jane I can find was the daughter of John Pardoe 1802 and Jane Foxall 1801 and she was christened in April 1834. Is this she?
I see where you come from with Ann, christened 27 April 1777. Jane would have been abouit 16 then and they were not married until 4 years later; I dismissed this for that reason. Equally there was a Joseph Pardoe born 29 May 1814 but Jane would have been 53 by now and, though not impossible, I made the decision he was not in this family either. It could well be that they are both in the same family and Jane bore 14 children. Equally there could be two Joseph Pardoes and Janes and there could be two famililies which I have mixed! Eventually, with nothing more to go on, who knows?
I do not know if this is any help. It would be interesting to follow your thoughts on all this.
Regards
Arlen
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Hi Arlen
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me.
So far, I too have got all my info from the IGI and Anne( b 1777) is on there with parents named as Joseph and Jane but, as there were so many others with these names and bearing in mind the marriage date and Jane's age, I can see why Anne may not fit.
I think that I will try to get up to the record office in the summer( I live in Kent) to see whether there is any more info available that may shed some light on this.
Thanks again for your help
Best wises
Sue
PS Thanks to Vanessa for her reply too
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Hi all, just catching up on all the Pardoe research. Sue your Anne, how do you know she was born 1777 is she on the 1841 Census? She could be Mary Ann, I find that the name 'Ann' can be all sorts, not easy to confirm exactly what names they were baptised with. Regarding your research, all the Old Swinford Baps and Marriages are on the IGI, you may need to search the Non Conformist Register, Lye and the Black Country was a hot spot for Non Conformists, there were Chapels of one denomination or another on every street corner! Have written out a list of Pardoes from the Old Swinford Poor Law and Settlement Documents 1651 - 1791, there may be something here to aid our search?
Sarah Pardoe entry 124 recorded 1761 Removed from Old Swinford to Ambelcote. Widow of Joseph with four children Elizabeth 1746, Martha 1748, Joseph 1752, Thomas 1756, found begging in Newington Surrey.
Richare Pardoe Nailer entry 161 recorded 1770 from St Chad Shrewsbury with Ann (late Griffiths) Widow and son George born 1765.
Joseph Pardoe entry 183 recorded 1773, Vagabond from Whistons Worcs to Old Swinford.
Joseph Pardoe entry 135 recorded 1773 Vagabond born at Old Swinford son of Wm Pardoe Baker removal order.
Thomas Pardoe entry 143 recorded 1780 Nailer born Old Swinford 1734 son of Joseph Pardoe, husband of Ann whom he Married at Upper Arley in 1764, and father of Hannah born 1765, Sarah born 1768, Elizabeth born 1771, Mary born 1776, Thomas born 1780.
Ann Pardoe born out of wedlock 1764 to Mary Pardoe removed from Old Swinford to Stourbridge entry 168 recorded in 1771.
John Pardoe Taylor (Tailor) born at Clent entry 93 recorded 1768 son of Thomas Pardoe of Clent, husband of Mary and father of boy born 1764 and two girls born 1762 and 1766, apprenticed to Wm Perry Taylor of Clent.
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I have a SARAH ANN GADD marr JAMES KITSON 10 Nov. 1849 St. Marys Oldswinford, any connection.
Is anyone out there looking at Gadd, Southall or Liveter?
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looking for any information on the surname Hill - residing at Boucher, The Lye 1881 - 10 family members, anyone know what Boucher was, cannot find any other records, thanks
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Re Boucher, The Lye.
Is this Bouchall, Stambermill which is between Stourbridge and the Lye? Also shown on a marriage cert as Bowshell!
Velda
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Velda The address on the extract from the 1881 census gives the address as Boucher, The Lye but that may be a mistake. Is Bouchall an actual place ? Trev
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It is in the area around Bagley Street, Yardley Street, and Lawrence Street which are off Birmingham Street/Stourbridge Road, Stambermill.
"Bouchall and Clatterbatch give the river a short rural setting, it is here that it passes under the ten arch Stambermill railway viaduct, a well-known Stourbridge landmark. The predecessor of this was built of wood, and on the Lye side of the present one the brick pillars that supported it are still in existence.
From the article about the River Stour at http://www.blackcountrysociety.co.uk/articles/stour.htm
Velda
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thanks Velda, most helpfull :-*
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I have ancestors who lived there when they got married in 1867 - Thomas Cartwright and Mary Ann Wood. It took me age to find out where it was as it's shown as Bowshell on their marriage certificate. Strange thing is that I only live about 5 minutes walk from there!
Glad to have been of help
Velda
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Just in case they eventually link with any ones PARDOEs I have Phillip and Ann who had Ann bap 4 Feb 1643,Thomas bap 24 Sep 1646 and John Bapt 15 oct 1649 all in Ombersley Ann m James WILKS in 1674
Trees
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HI,
my grx2 was mary ann, who's mother was sarah ann Gadd and :) father was James Kitson. Any information you have on this family would be appreciated.
Many thanksAngela
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Angela
As you will see I have replied, but will send a fuller tree if you want it but I have not put it on any site yet.
Marlene
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Hi Coffeeaddict
I have lots of Cartwrights in lye, including Sarah Cartwright who married Sargant Gauden in 1888. (isn't Sargent a wonderfully unusual forename!)
Sarah x
Hi Sarah ,
I was raised in the Lye and my paternal GMothers side appear to be well routed in the Lye .
Her maiden name was HOMER ( fathers name HENRY ) and I believe her mothers maiden name was GAUDEN ( first name PHEOBE ) --- can you throw any light on this link ?
I have found where my GR Gparents wre living in the mid to late 1800s and indeed where living from 1912(ish) --my father was born in the that house in 1915 .
I have sent for certificates of various marriages and birts very recently .
Await any help !
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Hello
We do not know where our Cartwrights came from but our John Cartwright was born about 1760 in Lye. I am working on our Cartwrights now again.
My direct line Surnames from the area are: Adams, Arch, Bashford, Bay, Bird, Blakeway, Bolus, Cartwright, Chance, Chinn, Cox, Dancer, Drew, Foxall, Glazebrook, Griffis, Hains, Harris, Hart, Heathcock, Hill, Howls/Howles, Hurley, Jeavins/Jevins, Knowles, Marsh, Marshall, Newey, Pachett/Pagett, Parks, Pearson, Perks, Perrins, Pitt, Raybould, Richards, Rogers, Sheward, Stollard, Tilley, Underhill, Warr/Warrs, Weaver,Wegar, Westwood
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I would suggest that you use the surnames button above to record and check your surnames. This is much more likely to be effective.
David
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Hi - I am brand new to this and hope I don't breach any etiquette.
I am researching my husband's family tree - his mother's maiden name was Crampton and her mother's maiden name was Spittle. I am still waiting to talk to other family member's re anything they can remember but I cannot find anything about this marriage at all (Cradley area around 1910) His mother's name was Margery Joan and I have many brothers and sisters for her too?
Can anyone help? I see that 'Linell' and 'Jandap' know lots about Cramptons
Nicci
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Hello
In my family the Spittel name was in Lye, so the Church they were baptized in was St Marys in Old Swinford. I don't know about more resent Spittel people but this 15 yr old married my Grandfathers cousin Samuel Richards:
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There was this marriage in 1898
CRAMPTON Philip H SPITTLE Rose E Lye, Christ Church Registers At Dudley Register Office Reference 011/002/54
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Thank you to both of you - incredibly quick and incredibly kind
Funnily enough I managed to trace the Philip and Rose couple through Ivy Kathleen Crampton (one of their many daughters) which someone else had worked up - and they are the right couple, so have been working hard on the female line all day.
I am now trying to find a link to Mabel as I think there must be one somewhere
Thanks so much
Nicci
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:o Well I have had a fascinating day after the help I have been given and I wondered if any Spittle/Crampton/Frier people had any ideas...
(Grandma) Rose Elizabeth Spittle (1880) is in theory the daughter of Harriet Frier and John H Spittle, BUT Harriet was originally married to Joseph Frier and appears on the 1881 census as a lodger of John Spittle's with a 6 month old Rose (L - ? Lizzy) Frier. Harriet is marked as married[but not to John]. By the 1991 census she is down as John's wife and Rose is now also a Spittle.
I have been unable to find that Joseph died - infact I think he lived into the 1900's, so it looks like a bigamous marriage - although I havent been able to find a marriage cert for John and Harriet either.
Has anyone else come across this and researched in more detail before I break it to my husband that he is not Spittle descended at all!
Nicci
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Hi Velda,
I am searching nee taylor/hutton married nee chance/hutton married
of information on chance. Having problems with nee taylor louisa hutton
Also nee cartwright/lawrence. lye, quarry bank cradley heath
nee walsgrove/lawrence married
I do have quite a bit of information and photographs if you would like to
contact me
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mary_ellen G
I ma also interested in the lye/kings norton area for chinn's have lost them! William M Chinn ,arried Maria Clulee had five children 1860and 1871. Could this be the same line you are interested in?
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HI,
my grx2 was mary ann, who's mother was sarah ann Gadd and :) father was James Kitson. Any information you have on this family would be appreciated.
Many thanksAngela
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Did you get my late reply with regard to the Gadd - Kitson family? if not will send again.
01Ivan
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Hello all, but especially Arlen and Linnell!
I am so thrilled to read your comments thus far!
I've been working for years on my paternal Welsh family, and thought this winter might be time to follow up my Mum's paternal family, the Astons from The Lye/ Lye Cross. I had questioned my Mum and her sister, both in their late 80's and discovered the following:
My mother's father and his siblings were (in order of age?): Harry, Wilfred, Edith, Joseph, Alice, Howard (Richard) and Carrie (Caroline). Wilfred's birth certificate shows that he was born 1889 at Badger Street, Lye. The father is noted as George Harry Aston and the mother as Caroline Aston, nee Walker.
My aunt talks vividly abouts visits to her father's cousins in The Lye,especially to see Aunty Zuba, and the tiny sweet shop, with the apple tree and pigsty in the back garden. She also mentions a visit to another relative, whom my Mum thinks is Aunty Tet, which was at a posh villa, with a musical box! There was also a visit to Aston relatives in Crossgates and Cowdenbeath - I think this is something to do with Harry (grandfather's brother) who had moved to live in Scotland.
My memories of conversations with my grandfather were descriptions of a wonderful and beautiful mother, who had been in service - I've found her on the 1881 census, aged 14, born in Amblecote, and working for the Billingham family in Wollescote, and later working in/keeping a pub on Lye Cross. Little about his father, other than that he worked at Ham Baker's in the Black Country, on a sawmill. I think his parents were Thomas and Esther. Also, of a large family, with regular visits.
I had just started to surf the net/family history sites for information when I found your postings! I am so thrilled to read your comments thus far, and to see your photos! Do you think that my folks above are the Astons about whom you've been writing?
I should so love to hear from any of you!
Regards,
Bryn Meurig.
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Hi Bryn, looks like George H was living in Lomey Town Cradley Heath in 1881.
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I don't think his father Thomas connects to me? Although he could be a brother or a cousin, need to trace him back on the Census. Linell.
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Hello Linell, and many thanks for your speedy response, and for your efforts with the census!
I had already checked the 1881 census, and think that probably is the right family, but will need to get certificates.
The 1881 shows lots of Astons in The Lye, and I think those in Badger St. (Wilfred was later born here) and at the Pawn Broker's shop (Wilfred's 2 sisters ran one in The Lye for many years) may be connected. I'm wondering if Arlen could throw some light on this?
The 1881 also shows 2 Aston families, with Lye connections at Amblecote, where Caroline Walker (George Aston's wife) was born - did they meet through a family connection in Amblecote, I wonder?
Regards,
Bryn Meurig.
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Hi Bryn, I've got back to a John Aston born 1770 Ambelcote, in 1841 the family live in Aston Fold Kingswinford, which I imagine was an Aston Commune in Ambelcote. I'll have a look later today for your Thomas and get back to you, best wishes from Linell.
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1871 the family are in Dudley Road Lye:-
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In 1851 Thomas and Esther are aged 20 with William aged 1 living in Stourbridge Road Lye.
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1861 they are in Dudley Road Lye:-
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For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
I can't find Thomas in 1841?? HTH from Linell.
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This looks like the Marriage in 1850:-
ASTON Thomas NOTT Esther Oldswinford, St Mary Dudley Register Office 003/003/497
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Looks like Thomas was the son of Wm and Mary, baptised Old Swinford 1829. That would make sense with his eldest son being called William. HTH from Linell.
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Hello Linell!
Thank you so much for your time and efforts on this. I think/hope I've gone from having a few names on a piece of paper to a line to follow up.
I guess the next step is to get a copy of George Aston's Birth Certificate to check that the Thomas, Esther and George Aston in Lomey Town are indeed the people I'm looking for.
I'll send you a PM with a more personal "Thank You"
Meanwhile, I've spoken to another elderly aunt, who tells me that:
Aunty Tet (probably Esther) had a brother, Fred, and a sister who had a farm near Kidderminster, and whose daughter married an American.
She and her other sister, Aunty Zuba (she of the sweet shop, pigsty and apple tree), were married 2 brothers, Tet to Edward and Zuba to Dick (Richard) Johnson (?possibly).
One of these couples lived in Bromley St.
The 2 brothers were related to Caroline Walker, George's wife.
Aunty Tet had 2 daughters, Henrietta and Harriet.
I think there may be some confusion here between generations, but some of this is so close to the folks Jandap describes in his picture!
Once again, many thanks,
Bryn Meurig.
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Hi Bryn, gosh sounds like a lot of Inter-Marrying there between Cousins! I know that living in such small communities, a lot of them did Marry into each other's families, will have a look for the elusive Aunty Tet and Fred etc etc.
Linell.
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Do you know when Tet and Fred were born Bryn?
Linell.
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Good Evening, Linnell!
Birth dates for Tet and Zuba? Not really a clue!!
However, my aunt, born 1924, wrote a wonderful piece some years ago, describing her childhood - riveting stuff, tear jerking, too! In that, she describes visiting Zuba, and aunt was sent into the garden whilst the adults stayed indoors drinking homemade parsnip wine! Thus, I guess Zuba was grown up and married. Likewise Tet.
I think they were my grandfather's generation, born around the turn of the century, perhaps? My grandfather regularly spent time with them (at a pub on Lye Cross!), so I would guess they were his paternal (George)cousins, rather than maternal (Caroline).
From the information you gave me this week, assuming the family in the 1881 census were the same you found in 1871, 1861 and 1851, perhaps Tet and Zuba were the daughters of George's siblings?
I noticed a William Aston of the right age in the 1881 census, living at the High Street grocer's shop in Kingswinford, but Tet and Zuba aren't among his children. Maybe they are children of Thomas, Mary or Richard?
Regards,
Bryn Meurig.
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Hi Bryn, I think the family above are Richard's children. Richard born about 1859 brother of George H.
Richard Aston Married Azubah Homer Christ Church Lye 1887
1891 Bromley Street Lye
Sarah Homer HD Wid 65 Grocer All born Lye
(Hannah on Image, think it should b Azubah) Aston DA M 30
Richard Aston Son In Law 31 Spade Tee Turner
Harriet M. Granddaughter 1
1901 Bromley Street Lye
Richard Aston HD Grocer 40
Azubah Wife 39
Harriet M DA 11
Edith B DA 9
Frederick T.E. Son 7
Esther Z DA 1
Sarah Homer Mother In Law 75
Alice Aston Niece 5
Isabella Timmins Sevant 14 born Tunstall Staffs. All others born Lye
So Ok I think Harriet is Tet, Esther is Esther Zilliah or Zibiah. Frederick is obviously Uncle Fred and Zuba must be one of the sisters, could be a Nick Name or Second Name??
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I found Azubah in Upper Lye Waste with her Parents in 1861:-
Frederick Homer Head 37 (Note this is where the Frederick name comes from)
Sarah Homer Wife 35
Sarah DA 13
Frederick Son 7
Zilliah DA 11
Azubah DA 4 months
Hope this helps, they do sound an interesting family.
Linell.
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My chance line is not exactly this Chance line but I am from a Peter Chance born 1668 in Lye Line.
My earliest Chance/Skelding family:
Family Group Record
Husband Benjamin CHANCE
Born Place 1784 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
Married Place 1 Aug 1809 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
Husband's mother Sarah
Wife Sarah TAYLOR
Born Place 1788 Lye, Worcestershire, England
Children
1 F Catherine CHANCE
Christened Place 22 Jan 1809 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
Spouse William SKELDING
Married Place
2 F Sarah CHANCE
Christened Place 6 May 1809 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
3 F Elizabeth CHANCE
Christened Place 21 Mar 1812 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
Buried Place 11 Apr 1814
4 M Stephen CHANCE
Christened Place 19 Jun 1814 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
5 M Jeremiah CHANCE
Christened Place 21 Jan 1816 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
Buried Place 29 Oct 1820
6 M Benjamin CHANCE
Christened Place 15 Feb 1818 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
7 F Hannah CHANCE
Christened Place 15 Jul 1821 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
Buried Place 19 Oct 1822
8 M Eli CHANCE
Christened Place 1 Jun 1823 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
Died Place 1845
Buried Place 19 Oct
9 F Lydia CHANCE
Christened Place 3 Jul 1825 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
10 M Jesse CHANCE
Christened Place 29 Jul 1827 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
Buried Place 6 Mar 1828
11 Feb
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<The set of books mentioned are authored by Pat Dunn who has written three so far in a series entitled 'Britain in Old Photographs - Lye and Wollescote', the same as a 'Second Selection' and the latest as the 'Third Collection', the first was written in conjunction with the late Denys Books. They appear quite often on ebay and in online booksellers catalogues. Bill Pardoe and his father, the photographer William Pardoe, are mentioned in various places in these books.>
Hi Arlen, I didn't mean the 'Britain in Old Photographs' Series, Bill Pardoe has written at least three books in his own right, I have read them, your local Library can obtain them for you. HTH from linell.
Hello Linell. I'm trying to trace my ancestors. My surname is Wooldridge. Any help would be great. Many thanks, Paul
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Hi Linell, you certainly get me thinking about things. Myra was either born on Waste Bank (her parents were there in 1861, 4 years before her birth) or close by (they are in Bromley Street in 1871). The photo would have been taken, I think, in the early 1900s when William had changed his profession from clay miner (hard but a regular income) to photographer (better working conditions but no guaranteed income) and they were living in Vicarage Road, Lye.
As to the origins of the surname Pardoe, you are probably close - though I suspect it was the Lorraine glassmakers rather than those from Hungary that provided the rootstock for the line. An interesting article here:
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/h/e/n/Barry-M-Henzell/FILE/0004page.html
I have two lines of Homers, Grandmother Myra was a direct line, her father was Frederick 1824 and her grandfather was John 1794. An aunt on my mothers side married a Homer - John Tye Forrest Homer 1879 whose father and grandfather were Apollos 1832 and Jesse 1797, from Cradley. Incidently I also have a Sidaway - Aunt Floss married Arthur Sidaway 1896 in 1921.
I think the Yardley connection is too far back for certainty but the Wooldridges and Pardoes were quite common in the Waste. Betty, mentioned before marrying Jospeh Pardoe, lived close to him only a few pages separated in the 1841 census just before they married. Neighbours again!
Good luck with your researches
Arlen
Hi. I notice you have Wooldridge's in your post. I'm trying to trace my ancestors and thet are Wooldridge's. Any help would be great. Many thanks, Paul
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My chance line is not exactly this Chance line but I am from a Peter Chance born 1668 in Lye Line.
My earliest Chance/Skelding family:
Family Group Record
Husband Benjamin CHANCE
Born Place 1784 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
Married Place 1 Aug 1809 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
Husband's mother Sarah
Wife Sarah TAYLOR
Born Place 1788 Lye, Worcestershire, England
Children
1 F Catherine CHANCE
Christened Place 22 Jan 1809 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
Spouse William SKELDING
Married Place
2 F Sarah CHANCE
Christened Place 6 May 1809 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
3 F Elizabeth CHANCE
Christened Place 21 Mar 1812 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
Buried Place 11 Apr 1814
4 M Stephen CHANCE
Christened Place 19 Jun 1814 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
5 M Jeremiah CHANCE
Christened Place 21 Jan 1816 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
Buried Place 29 Oct 1820
6 M Benjamin CHANCE
Christened Place 15 Feb 1818 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
7 F Hannah CHANCE
Christened Place 15 Jul 1821 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
Buried Place 19 Oct 1822
8 M Eli CHANCE
Christened Place 1 Jun 1823 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
Died Place 1845
Buried Place 19 Oct
9 F Lydia CHANCE
Christened Place 3 Jul 1825 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
10 M Jesse CHANCE
Christened Place 29 Jul 1827 Oldswinford, Worcestershire, England
Buried Place 6 Mar 1828
11 Feb
Hi. I have a Mary Ann Chance in my family. She was born in 1843 and died in 1908. She married my relative, Joseph Wooldridge, born 1838, died 1891. Both from Oldswinford. Could she be from your branch?
Many thanks, Paul
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I am helping a friend to trace her LYE ancestors. Heads of households in the censuses are as follows:
1841 Thomas Pardoe, Age given 30(?), Nailer, Old Swinford. Wife Susannah.
Children: Elijah, Obadiah, Jeremiah, Ann, Myrah, Sarah, Selra(?).
1851 Elijah PARDOE, born abt 1827 Lye Waste, Nailer, resident: Wollescote, Wife Emma (Nailer).
1861 Elijah PARDOE, children: Enoch, Major, Matilda, Ann M, Caroline.
1871 as above (Major now a Nail Forger)
1881 Major PARDOE, born abt 1853 in Lye, Blacksmith, Resident: Beefeater Field, Lye. Wife Mona
1891 Major PARDOE, Nail Manufacturer, Union Street, Lye.
Children: Howard Hugh Bourne, Maud, Cyril, Theresa, Ann M, Morris.
1901 Major PARDOE Frost Screw Maker, Wife Sarah.
1911 Major PARDOE has moved to Middlesborough and is a respected Cabinet Maker!
Children: Iris Hermione, Arnold, Cicely, Cressida.
If anyone has any knowledge of, or connection to, any of the above I would very much like to hear from you!
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Hi All,
I am looking for more information about an ancestor Martha Wright, maiden name as yet unknown, who gives her place of birth as Lye or Oldswinford and birth year as 1795.
In 1851 census for Lye she is staying, as a visitor, with George Wood, aged 55, unmarried. The place I think is Hambridge Road, and there is a servant in the house and another relation aged 80. He is a manufacturer of chains. Although she is recorded as Married, I believe she may be widowed.
I appeal to those with a better knowledge of Lye history to help me fill out this picture. I have read a bit about the dreadful conditions around Lye and the metal-working. However this household looks a bit more like a boss than a worker. What do you think? Have I got the right road name, and if so where was/is it?
I am also curious as to why Martha is visiting, although having Lye area as her place of birth, she has been living in London, at least around the 1820-1834 period. Has she returned to stay with her brother?? Later on she moves to Birmingham to stay with her son and family, and then to Broseley where she dies.
Did Martha marry - perhaps around 1820 - locally? Her husband was Edward Wright - but as yet I know nothing about him.
Any help most welcome,
Pam
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Pam
Marriage 22nd Oct.1816 St Mary, Lambeth,Surrey
Edward Wright + Martha Bourne
Baptism 25 Nov 1793 Oldswinford-Martha Bourne -Parents John+ Mary.
Jackie
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Wow, thanks, that looks very likely. I have found the marriage register online at Ancestry.
How does a girl from Lye get to marry in Lambeth? Certainly fits where their children are baptised and where Edward works in 1820-34. I think the Wright family might have been quite well positioned in life. If only there were more info on the marriage certificate, looks as if the same people witnessed most marriages at that Church. Looks as if both Edward and Martha were literate and certainly could sign their names.
Do you know if the baptism register is online, or would I need to visit Archives to see any more detail? What church do you think that would have been - was there more than one in Old Swinford?
Is Bourne a known name in the Lye area? John and Mary certainly had other children.
Pam
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Jackie, I am so excited!!
I have followed up on your lead about Martha Bourne - and find that one of her grandchildren is baptised Martha Bourne Wright in 1845 in Birmingham.
Proof indeed.
Thank you, Pam
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Thanks to earlier help I have now been able to add Martha Bourne to our family tree.
....... Baptism 25 Nov 1793 Oldswinford-Martha Bourne -Parents John+ Mary.
I am interested in this family; daughter Martha marries (quite well) in 1816 in Lambeth, Surrey (London), so how had Martha met up with a Londoner?? Was she a servant? Or was she part of the Social scene?
Does anyone have any info on John & Mary Bourne of Oldswinford? Poss marriage around 1780-90? Other town/village records?
Thanks...
Pam
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Hello, I am researching Benjamin Chance ( my great grandfather ) born 7th Nov. 1844 at the Lye, Worcestershire. His father`s name was given as Eli.
He had at least two offspring, Sarah who moved to Scotland and married in 1908, Eli who moved to Bolton.
Any help , and any possible links to the Benjamin Chance born in the 18th century and emigrated to America, would be most useful
Thank you
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Hello
The Gro reg for Benjamin Chance in 1844 gives a mother Miss Cole.
There is a marriage for Eli Chance and Ann Cole 25 Mar 1843 Old Swinford
The 1841 census for Careless Green
Benjamin Chance 55 nailor y
Sarah 50
Sarah 30
Eli 15
Lidia 15
Abigail 10
Amelia 5
Ira 5
Eli bapt 1.6.1823 to Benjamin and Sarah at Old Swinford.
It looks like Eli died Dec 1845 age 23.
Which explains why there are no more children.
I can't see any sign of Ann Cole/Chance after that.
1851 Dark lane Stourbridge
Benjamin Chance 68 nailor widower and Chelsea pensioner Lye
Abigail daughter 20 nailor Lye
Benjamin had joined up Oxfordshire light infantry (43rd foot)
Discharged 6 Oct 1807 after 2 years due to almost total loss of sight.
Age 24 5ft 5' brown hair dark complexion
He came back to Old Swinforrd and married Sarah Taylor 1.8.1809.
Children -Catherine 22.1.1809,Sarah 6.5.1810,Elizabeth 21.3.1813,Stephen 18.6.1814,Jeremiah 21.1.1816 bapt 29.10.1820,Benjamin 15.2.1818,Hannah 27.8.1820,Hannah 15.7.1821,Eli 1.6.1823,Lydia 3.7.1825,Jesse 29.7.1827,Sylvia 1.3.1829 bapt25.1.1832 and Abigail 27.3.1831
He was buried at Lye 31.3.1858 age 76 years
Ciderdrinker
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Thank you Ciderdrinker! The Chelsea Pensioner detail was fascinating.
We have just been to the Oldswinford graveyard but alas headstones illegible.
We have also had our first trip to nearby Hive in Worcester - very helpful staff - and are returning to see if Benjamin Chance born 1787 was born to Robert Chance, thus hopefully taking me back to Peter Chance of 1615.
The Dudley Borough historical online maps are very useful , indicating Careless Green and also Dark Lane, ( now Engine Lane ).The houses are not shown on the 1880 map so may have disappeared before the advent of local photographical interest
I have an 1888 copy of my great-grandfather`s birth certificate ( Benjamin`s grandson, also Benjamin) born 7th Nov. 1844, showing mother`s name as formerly Cole, not as Miss Cole.
What I want to ascertain is were there any employment or other reasons in Lye which prompted him to move in about to 1880 Bolton Lancashire where my grandmother Sarah was born.
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Hi all
I'm looking for information / links to "ROBINSON"
I have Joseph (born circa 1823 • Lye Waste, Worcestershire). Joseph was an Anvil maker.
I'd also love any information on the area.
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Hi CA
I have a James Gauden in my tree he married my great grand aunt Betsy Rhodes at Christ Church Old Swinford Lye in 1860.
Julia :)
Hi Julia,
I know this thread is incredibly dated but I was too excited to see your comment about Betsey Rhodes.
Betsey Rhodes is my 5th great aunt. Her sister Margaret Rhodes is my 4th great grandmother who married Jeremiah Hill.
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Hi
These are my family name intrests from The Lye and surrounding areas.
Gauden (spelling changed to Gorden by my g/grandfather at marriage)
Pardoe
Drew
Newey
Freeman
Noke
I think there is a Cartwright connection as well.
Anyone else researching above names??
I have a Jane Newey (1816 - 1874), daughter of Edward Newey (1786 - 1850) and Elizabeth Brookes (1787 - 1825) who married James Herrin (1814 - 1874) on 19 June 1836 at Dudley.
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WOW! Lots of Astons there!
I have a Mary Ann Aston born around 1848 in Lye who married John Raybould (1846 - 1910)
Name Mary Ann Aston
Registration Year 1867
Registration Quarter Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district Dudley
Parishes for this Registration District Dudley
Inferred County Staffordshire
Volume 6c
Page 20
Household Members
Name Age
Mary Ann Aston
James Jennings
Anne Sophia Parry
John Raybould
Mary Ann Aston's parents were Zechariah Aston (baptised on 14 May 1815, Oldswinford) and Elizabeth "Betsy" Cartwright (1814 - 1886)
England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
View Record
Name Zachariah Aston
Gender Male
Baptism Date 14 May 1815
Baptism Place Oldswinford, Worcester, England
Father John Aston
Mother Mary Aston
FHL Film Number 350490
Household Members
Name Age
Zachariah Aston
Mary Aston
John Aston
Mary Ann Aston's siblings were: -
John (1842 - ?)
Joseph (1844 - ?)
Richard (1846 - 1928)
It would be wonderful if our Astons are linked to your Astons?