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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: Ned on Monday 19 May 08 19:07 BST (UK)
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Seeking Birth, Marriage and Death dates in respect of Walter GRIEVE b c1820 he married Mary OLIVER b c1820 Hawick area. Any details greatly appreciated.
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Hi Ned
Found this on IGI
both extracted
Walter Grieve = Mary Oliver
15 DEC 1841 Hawick, Roxburgh
Walter Grieve = Mary Oliver
05 DEC 1841 Wilton, Roxburgh
deb :)
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Hi
Not sure if you have this ...
IGI submitted entry
AGNES GRIEVE d/o Walter Grieve and Mary Oliver
birth; 1848 Hawick, Roxburgh
death: 05 OCT 1914 Hawick, Roxburgh
deb ....
Ps Do you have them on the censuses?
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Hi Deb
Many thanks for those dates, no I do not have access to scottish census images
Ned
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Hi Ned
I am also reseaching a family called Walter Grieve and a Mary Oliver but not getting very far, i'm not sure if its the same family.
My Walter and Mary had a daughter called Agnes who went onto marry a Andrew Butler in 1869.
If it is the same family i would like to hear what info you have found out.
Many thanks
Gilly
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Hi Gilly
Yes, same family.
Walter Grieve/Mary Oliver's children were;
1843 Michael
1846 Adam
1848 Agnes
Walter was my G.G.Grandfather on my mothers side, have not done much research on them through lack of access to scottish records.
I do not have Walters Birth or Death details.
Regards
Ned
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Hi Ned, 1851 Census Hawick, Barony. Address- Fore Row
Mary Grieve 30 Widow b Wilton, Rox
Michael Grieve 8 son b Hawick
Adam Grieve 5 son b Hawick
Agnes Grieve 3 Dau. b Hawick
Also in the house is a James Ward 1 b Hawick enumerated as son, and Mary's brother? William Oliver 32 visitor b Wilton Rox.
Val
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Hello Ned -
I've downloaded the marriage entry for 1841 which is a readable copy but apart from names gives no other info.
If you pm me your e-mail address I'll pass it on.
Regards, Steve . :O)
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Thanks Merryhow and Piglet01 for your input.
I have marriage details and your offer much appreciated.
Regards
Ned
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Hi Ned
Walter Grieve is my GGGGG Grandfather, i think thats right it might be only 4 Greats on my dads side, i'm in the middle of moving house so must of my records are all packed away.
I found i marriage record for Mary and Walter but because it was before 1855 it does not tell me any information.
Walters death details is one off the next things on my list so if i find any information out i'll let you know.
All the best
Gilly
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I believe that the Walter Grieve referred to was the son of Michael Grieve, a wool spinner, and Rachel Scott. No proof but you can have a look a what I know at http://www.thehendrys.freeserve.co.uk/FHistory/Grieve/Grieve.html
Michael Grieve, a wool spinner, and Rachel Scott were my GGG grandparents.
Be interested in anybody's thoughts about this.
All the best
John Hendry
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Gilly,
Sorry meant to include in last post. Not mentioned on webpages 'cos just found out -
William Butler Nephew aged 21 Sailor born in Scotland in household of his mother's brother Michael for the 1891 census. Address "The Laurels, Wigston Fields, Leicester".
Hope this is of interest.
All the best
John Hendry
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Ned,
I don't know if this has any connection to your Grieves but I found a Robert Grieve born c1881 from Hawick on the Boston Pasenger List in 1904. He was travelling with my Wilkinson family. I believe he was engaged to a Sarah Briggs Wilkinson at the time. They married, possibly in Hawick but when I do not know, and they had a daughter Margaret Leydon Grieve b 1906 in Hawick.
Ritchie
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Hi John
Yes that William Butler is the son of Agnes Grieve and Andrew Butler, William had a sister called Mary who is my GG gran.
I have also found the information on Michael Grieve and Rachel Scott and think they are part of the family but its hard to know as i can't find any birth or death records for walter Grieve apart from that marriage to a Mary Oliver in 1841.
All the best
Gilly
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Hi John
I've just been looking at your Grieve website and i have some off the same information but you have found so much more out than me, its great to see who married who and the extra children born after 1911, i'm so happy that you managed to find John Needham i've been looking for him for ages.
Its also nice to see the photo off the Highgrove house.
Best Wishes
Gilly
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Glad you found some of the info of interest. The Needham stuff is all recent and even the photo is relatively new.
As far as the parentage of Walter who married Mary Oliver, I guess we will be lucky to prove who his parents actually were. Sometimes you can be fortunate and find an informant on a Marriage or Death certificate which links a problem family to another family where the second family is already proven but it is always a long shot. However if you look at the evidence that suggests that the Walter Grieve who married Mary Oliver was the son of Michael Grieve and Rachel Scott I think it is not unreasonable to go with it.
We are sure Walter Grieve son of Michael Grieve and Rachel Scott was single a least up until 7 June 1841 as he appears without any obvious wife in the household of his parents - (Freecens)
The marriage was proclaimed in the groom's home parish of Hawick and the bride's home parish of Wilton, confirming the groom to be of Hawick parish, which fits with Walter the son of Michael Grieve and Rachel Scott.
Walter Grieve who married Mary Oliver was a Wool Spinner - stated on the Wilton proclamation of their marriage (wife's parish) and on his wife's later death certificate. Walter Grieve son of Michael Grieve and Rachel Scott was a woolspinner - from the selfsame 1841 census. There is another Walter Grieve in the parish of Hawick who is about the right age but he would seem to be from farming stock. which makes him unlikely.
Walter Grieve who married Mary Oliver named his first son Michael, second son Adam and his only known daughter Agnes. This would fit with them using the tradition of first son after the paternal grandfather, first daughter after the maternal grandmother, second son after maternal grandfather and second daughter after the paternal grandmother, if Mary's parents were Adam and Agnes (from her death cert) and his father was called Michael.
None of the above is conclusive but taken as a whole it is certainly persuasive!
All the best and happy hunting.
John Hendry
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Hi Gilly,
Just a bit extra which you probably already have. Whilst checking stuff I found Mary Oliver in 1841 Census which may be of interest to you. This is a mis-transcription and should be Mary. I have double checked but the proof is also the William - Itinerant Musician who appears in Mary's household in 1851 as William Oliver Violin Player - Visitor. He was her brother as well as a visitor.
Piece: SCT1841/810 Place: Wilton -Roxburghshire Enumeration District: 1
Civil Parish: Wilton Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 1 Page: 27
Address: Damhead
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Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
OLIVER Agnes (Widow) F 50 Independent Roxburghshire
OLIVER William M 20 Itinerant Musician Roxburghshire
OLIVER May F 15 Weaver J. P. L. Wool Roxburghshire
OLIVER Agnes F 25 Twiner Wool Factory Roxburghshire
HENDERSON Jane F 13 Female Servant Roxburghshire
- - F 1m Roxburghshire Names not recorded
All the best
John Hendry
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William Oliver's parents were Agnes Anderson/Adam Oliver (death registration) and he has come up in my own search into Helen Laidlaw b 1845. Some details of William from Douglas Scott's on-line book
"William ‘Blinnd
Wull’ (1818–71) noted local fiddler, born at Tandlaw,
he lost his sight to a game cock at the age
of 5, and also lost his father early. He learned
the violin from Johnnie Oliver, and played regularly
at weddings and social functions. Tales were
also told of his prowess as an angler and poacher
and as a maker of nets. On one occasion he was
caught poaching, but gave his captors the slip, escaping
to Edinburgh, where he worked for a while.
He also ran a dance class at the Fleece Inn ballroom,
and is regarded as the last of Hawick’s blind
celebrities."
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,519007.0.html
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Hello all,
Not sure if I have any connection to the Grieve family you are researching but I too have this surname in my tree. My Grieve family are Helen born in Kelso 1796 but baptised in Hawick. She married Ebenezer Simpson in 1817 Kelso.
Her parents were Hugh Grieve and Helen Walker
If there is a link please contact me.
Regards
Jac
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Long time since anybody added anything to this particular post. However I thought it worthwhile to put on the information that a descendant of Walter and myself (a confirmed descendant of Alexander Grieve son of Michael Grieve and Rachel Scott) have matched DNA as 3rd - 4th cousins with a confidence of "Extremely High". This would confirm that Walter WAS also descendent of Michael Grieve and Rachel Scott. I can provide further detail. Also I have quite a bit more info on all three children of Walter Grieve and Mary Oliver. Hope someone is still out there to find this of interest! All the best...
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NED THEY ARE BURIED IN WELLOGATE CEMETERY.THE CEMETERY WAS TRANSCRIBED AND RECPRDED BY THE HAWICH ARCHEOLOGY SOCIETY IN THEIR TRANSACTIONS. THIS IS A COPY WITH SOME ANECDOTES WHICH WERE RECORDED AT THE TIME.
8. H.S . (6 yards from B.S.).-In memory of WALTER GRIEVE who died 9th August 1848
aged :2(1 years. The days of his youth hath been shortened. And MARY OLIVER
his wife who died 1'0th March 1902 aged 82 years.
W. G.'s wife same Oliver as John Oliver, Middle Area, IV . 4:4. He had son Michsel
ho left Hawick in 1874 to take up a position with le.rge hosiery manufacturing concern
• Leicester . When 6-0 he retired to Queensborough, dying there January, 1912. His son,
( 24 )
Thomas S. Grieve, is senior partner of the important firm T. Grieve & Co., Ltd., hosiery
latch needle manufacturers, Queen Street Works, Leicester. ·waiter also had daug. Agnes
who m. Andrew Butler, a Crimea and Indian Mutiny veteran, and an amiable Christian
man 1i,nd worker, issue-William, tailor, m. Janet Shepherd (de.ng. Margaret m. Councillor
John Burns Elliot, cashier, Gas Company); John, Newcastle-on-Tyne; Mary, m. Andrew
Turnbull, smith, Selkirk; .and Maggie. Walter had brother, Alexander Grieve, mill fore
·man, d. Galashiels, 30th June, 1848, aged 42; wife, Elizabeth Young, d . 12th March, 1914,
aged 77, issue-Rachel, m. James Mathieson; Barbare.; Elizebeth, m. J ,ames Russell, mason
(family-James, watchmaker; Alexander, m. Margaret Crozier, gran ddal.lghter, Margaret
Williamson, merchant, Kirk Wynd; Elizabeth, m. Robert Gall, gas employee; Ellen, m.
John Young; and ' Charles, hosiery me.nu.facturer, m. Isa, daug. of Robert Elliot, designer,
and Nellie Inglis), and son, Alexander, d. 5th April, 1926, eged 57, actuary, Hawick
Savings Bank, and mana ger , Hawick Heritable Investment Bank, Ltd., who left numerous
benefactions to his nat ive town.
THERE IS A LOT OF INFO FOR YOU TO GET YOUR TREE GOING. HOPE THIS HELPS.
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NED THIS IS TRANSACTION/ THEY ARE BURIED IN ROW 3 NUMBER 8.
"A Register of"
"Monumental Inscriptions"
"IN"
"HER_ITC>RS' AREA, WELLOGATE CEMETERY,"
"- ·HAWICK; ROXBURGHSHIRE"
"(WITH NoTES THEREoN)"
"by James H. Haining"
"This ·b riru W6S opened in 1849 u an extension to St Mary's Churchyard by the Heritqrs of Hawick Parish and under their control to & much later date, when by a. Joint Minnie of Agreement between them and the Parish Council of the Parish"
"of Hawick, dat.ed lJl4 »-da. 1903, the Parish Council accepted the transfer of the old"
"Churchyards of St Mary's and this Heritors' Burial Ground at Wellogete in terms of"
"Section 3, Sub-Sectioa 6, of the Local Government (Scotland) Act, 189-t, subject to the Heriton keepiJI! ...U. IIDd fences in repair. Later, under the Church of Scotland (Propert,y & Ealimnaeaia) Act, 1925, Heritors were relieved of all responsibility for"
"the upkeep of ...US. etc., these charges devolving .on the Parish Counqil."
"Entrance to the gro'Qlld. W6S half-way down the east border between Messer and Not· man's stones, Row 1: 7 and 8, in line with lower middle w.alk, e,nd this border was much broader a.t :lirsi, but a considerable strip of ground was taken off to make the wide foot path leading to the present cemetery gate, and at the oome time the old entrance was dosed up. The first additional cemetery _ accommodation would be provided shortly ruter the passing of the first Cemetery Act in 1855."
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Hi Alan14578
Thank for this a great piece of detail and something I was not aware of. The headstone inscription itself is great as I had no date for Walter's death, but the additional detail is brilliant as it identified his brother Alexander etc which is without doubt my great great grandfather and a proven son of Michael Grieve and Rachel Scott, therefore so was Walter. This was something that I had "believed" back in 2010 but could not prove! However as per previous post I had also had this confirmed in the last couple of months via a DNA match so QED x 2. Do you have connections to this Grieve family?
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SORRY I DONT HAVE ANY CONNECTIONS WITH GRIEVES. I AM GLAD THE INFO IS SO HELPFUL. THE TRANSACTION WERE DONE ABOUT THE 1960s but the added info brings it all together. Unfortunately the cemeteries have been ignored and have not been transcribed properly in the last 60yrs. so there is an enormous amount of info waiting from subsequent headstones in all the 3 Hawick cemeteries. I am from Selkirk and have transcribed 12 local cemeteries which the BFHS now have on Cd to help people like yourself trace their family tree. Glad to help.
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Walter Grieve and Mary Oliver
After being able to confirm 100% both through the documentary evidence supplied by alan14578 and my DNA results that Walter Grieve was indeed a son of Michael Grieve and Rachel Scott, I have done a bit more research into the descendants of the three children born to himself and Mary. I already had done some extensive digging into Michael's line, but much less so into that of his brother Adam or sister Agnes. I now have an extra webpage for each with further details of their children where known. I have also managed to confirm that the James Hart in the 1851 census and James Grieve in the 1861 census always assumed to be a child born to Mary after Walter's death and not fathered by him was indeed such. I had even guessed the father correctly as there was a 23 year old William Hart, an irish sawyer, living in the neighbourhood around the time of the bitrth James Hart\Grieve. The evidence was found in the Roman Catholic baptismal record for Hawick which records the birth on 10 October 1849 and the baptism 7 April 1850 in Hawick of James Hart with his parents identified as William Hart and Mary Oliver. The baby was not identified as Lawful Son which suggests that William and Mary never wed. The sponsors were William Curlin and Betty Rooney, and the priest was Patrick Taggart. Mary and her family were protestant so the baptism of the infant as a Roman Catholic presumably means that was William's faith. I wonder how this sat in the commumity let alone her immediate family? Unfortunately although the mystery as to the birth of James is now resolved, it is still not known what became of him. With his bother and the family for 1851 and 1861 he can not be found thereafter. I wonder if he ended up with his father's family\relatives, possibly returning to Ireland or becoming part of the mass Irish diaspora to America and elsewhere?
All this is on my webpages
My Grieve ancestory and links to other branches http://www.genealogy.jejik.co.uk/Grieve/Grieve.html
Walter and Mary Grieve http://www.genealogy.jejik.co.uk/Grieve/appendixd.html#4
Michael - son of above - http://www.genealogy.jejik.co.uk/Grieve/appendixf.html
Adam - son of above - http://www.genealogy.jejik.co.uk/Grieve/appendixh.html
Agnes - daughter of above - http://www.genealogy.jejik.co.uk/Grieve/appendixh.html
Hope somebody somewhere finds this of interest.