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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Longford => Topic started by: linny1 on Monday 14 July 08 13:54 BST (UK)
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How could two families seem to be in two counties at roughly the same time. I have baptism of five children to John and Percival and Ann Rosemond in Clonguish Parish at Lissagernal..Alexander 1821,Elizabeth 1822,William 1824,Arthur 1828 and Eliza 1836.This was provided by Longford Genealogical society.
From the IGI (and I spoke to the man who extracted the records and sent them to the IGI..an American who was related to the Percival family)I found Alexander born 1822 son of John born Aughriman Co Leitrim and William born abt 1828 Aughriman Kiltoghert Leitrim, Elizabeth 1831 Aughriman too and Thomas. Now I have met the grandchildren of Thomas. They also claim that John Percival and Anne Rosemond are their g grandparents, in fact they showed me the grave and knew the inscription on it. The grave is in Drumshambo,Kiltoghert Co Leitrim.
Anne Rosemond's family were from Co Leitrim.
I need hep urgently as I am flying to NZ tomorrow to discuss THE TREE with another descendent of Thomas.
I am descended from Arthur. There was definitely a John Percival paying tithes in Lissagernal in 1829-33
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How far apart are the two places that the same family are supposed to be in? County Longford and County Leitrim march each other and it might (depending on distance) be a case that the family lived in one place but went to church in the other.
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Yes, I realise the counties are attached but Currawn ,Mohill (no longer on maps) must be somewhere up near Drumshambo or Aughriman and therefore at least 15kms or more away...a long time back then.
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The other families connected to these Percivals are McCormack, Jones, Dunbar,Crowe .Any relatives out there? John Percival leased land from the Earl of Granard as far back as 1782
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Hello linny,
I've linked your "Minard House Co Longford" thread to this one.
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=315245.msg1979692#msg1979692
Christopher
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The other families connected to these Percivals are McCormack, Jones, Dunbar,Crowe .Any relatives out there? John Percival leased land from the Earl of Granard as far back as 1782
Griffith's Valuation
1856 Leitrim - Crowe. None in Longford in 1854 when the Valuation took place
1856 Leitrim - Dunbar. None in Longford
1856 Leitrim - Jones. This surname is also listed in Longford
McCormack is listed in both Leitrim and Longford.
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Yes, I realise the counties are attached but Currawn ,Mohill (no longer on maps) must be somewhere up near Drumshambo or Aughriman and therefore at least 15kms or more away...a long time back then.
The townland of Currawn in Co. Leitrim is near Mohill. My first cousin Victor Percival still lives there. His father was Attie(sic) Percival. Another brother was Willie who lived in the US for years and returned to Currawn on his retirement but ended his days with a family in Longford (I think they were Jones). There was another brother, at least one, who was a policeman in Belfast. There is a first cousin living in New Jersey. Our paternal grandmother's name was Forbes.
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In reply to Skm. I am descended from the same Percivals as you.Can you get in touch with me again. Victor and his brother are cousins of my mothers
. I live in Australia descended from Arthur Percival but I have been to Ireland and met margaret and Ivy. I have done a fairly complete family tree but need to complete the picture. I have also been to New Zealand to meet other descendents of John and Ann
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Does anyone here have information on Alexander Percival b. 1826 Longford, Ireland. Possible son of Henry Percival and Ann McCormick or perhaps a Roger Percival? May have a tie to Percivals from Leirtrim or possibly Wexford?? Thanks any information at all helps. I think the reason there may appear to be two families likely is because of different churches. There is a story in my family that Alexander's parents that the father was an Irish protestant and the mother a Scottish Catholic and hence they were rejected by their families. My Percival family ended up in Ontario, Canada.
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yes hi re percival currawn co leitrim - please email me directly as i don't check this site often
email -(*)
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
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Hi skm your email was blocked out/censored and I don;t know how to use the Personal Message feature or maybe I have to have made at least 3 posts or something to use it??? Anyhow my name is marc rennie. You can send me a message by (*). Hope that works and that this doesn't get cut out. Thanks.
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
The information posted here and in above post is quite clear. Please use PM system for exchanging email address.
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test 3rd post?
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My mother is Victor's first cousin living in New Jersey.
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Please get me in contact with someone from these Percival lines or who has information. I think you have to post 3 times and then you can use the private chat and send me your email.
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I don't think the moderator will allow email exchange. My mother is from Victor's mother's side of the family but we still have lots of family living there. Might be able to help you out in some way.
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You can certainly exchange email addresses but not online. Please use PM (personal message) system to do so and if you have any problems please let us know.
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
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Hi Marc and "Lettys girl". This is Jane Happell. Marc, I'm sure we have been in contact before. I and a man in New Zealand are doing the Co Leitrim. Longford Percival trees. As you can see from above my mother was Victor's cousin. Can I do anything to help you?
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Looking for info on my gt gndmother Ellen Percival (b.1848 probably Co. Longford) who m. Robert Jones (1847 - 1915) in Mohill Parish Church. They lived for some years in Tyrellspass where at least 3 of their children were born (he was in the RIC) but latterly lived in Cloonageeher, Co. Longford. Ellen's father was a Robert Percival.
Any info much appreciated.
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Hi Lettys girl.......I am not sure how to contact you by email.....can someone please explain how I do this. We are from the same family.
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Letty's girl probably need to make one more post and then should be able to use PM (Personal message) system so you can exchange details off-line. I explained it in July (just click on the link in reply #15).
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Happy to see a Percival researcher. Would anyone know if the William Jones who m. Frances Percival (parents of Alexander) have connection with the Prestons of Co. Longford?
How could two families seem to be in two counties at roughly the same time. I have baptism of five children to John and Percival and Ann Rosemond in Clonguish Parish at Lissagernal..Alexander 1821,Elizabeth 1822,William 1824,Arthur 1828 and Eliza 1836.This was provided by Longford Genealogical society.
From the IGI (and I spoke to the man who extracted the records and sent them to the IGI..an American who was related to the Percival family)I found Alexander born 1822 son of John born Aughriman Co Leitrim and William born abt 1828 Aughriman Kiltoghert Leitrim, Elizabeth 1831 Aughriman too and Thomas. Now I have met the grandchildren of Thomas. They also claim that John Percival and Anne Rosemond are their g grandparents, in fact they showed me the grave and knew the inscription on it. The grave is in Drumshambo,Kiltoghert Co Leitrim.
Anne Rosemond's family were from Co Leitrim.
I need hep urgently as I am flying to NZ tomorrow to discuss THE TREE with another descendent of Thomas.
I am descended from Arthur. There was definitely a John Percival paying tithes in Lissagernal in 1829-33
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The baptisim records of 4 of the children of John Percival &
Anne Rosemond show their address as Lisagernal,Clonguish
Parish.Co Longford where John Percival was a constable in1826.About 1830 the family moved to Aughriman,Kiltoghert
Parish,Co leitrim.
There was also a John Perceval living at Lisagernal born
about 1812 where he was a farmer(registered freeholder
22 Oct 1832,landlord Lord Forbes,listed in the Tithe
Appplotment records about 1834 with 11acres,1rood,
17perches.He married Fanny(no surname recorded)around1835 and they had a daughter Eliza baptised 18 Jan
1836 at Lisagernal.
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My mother is Victor's first cousin living in New Jersey.
Hmmm. My mother is Victor's first cousin and still lives in New Jersey. My grandmother was Francis Percival and was born in Curruan outside of Mohil.
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The other families connected to these Percivals are McCormack, Jones, Dunbar,Crowe .Any relatives out there? John Percival leased land from the Earl of Granard as far back as 1782
My grandmother, Frances Percival, was born in Currawn outside of Mohil.
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In reply to Skm. I am descended from the same Percivals as you.Can you get in touch with me again. Victor and his brother are cousins of my mothers
. I live in Australia descended from Arthur Percival but I have been to Ireland and met margaret and Ivy. I have done a fairly complete family tree but need to complete the picture. I have also been to New Zealand to meet other descendents of John and Ann
I too am descended from Arthur. My grandmother Francis was his daughter. In 1968, I spent a summer with Victor and Eric on the farm in Currawn and met cousins that were Jones.
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Hi Marc and "Lettys girl". This is Jane Happell. Marc, I'm sure we have been in contact before. I and a man in New Zealand are doing the Co Leitrim. Longford Percival trees. As you can see from above my mother was Victor's cousin. Can I do anything to help you?
I would love to get a copy and add what I know of the American branch.
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Hi Larry, thanks for getting in touch.Are you related to the Leckeys? I have been in touch with some of them over the years. I have visited Kathleen and her sisters in Ireland.My Arthur was the son of John and Anne Rosemond. I think your Frances was the son of a different Arthur. My Arthur didn't marry until he arrived in New South Wales. He did have a daughter Frances but she married a George Murray in NSW. When Arthur had been here a few years he sponsored a young nephew to come out here.His name was Robert Percival Jones and Robert was the son of his sister Ann who had married William Jones. I gather the Percivals and Jones family intermarried a few times.
Can you tell me exactly where you fit in? ie. what relation are you to the original John and are you from the Anne Rosemond line or from another wife,possibly Fanny as Cambell suggests.
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Hi everyone, sorry I'm a few years late to the party, but I am also starting to research the Percivals from Leitrim/Longford. I suspect they are related to my ancestors the Cliffords from Newtownforbes, co. Longford/Moher, Leitrim. My ancestor Henry Clifford emigrated to New York City in 1852 and in 1855 was living with an Alexander Percival, b. 1827, and his wife Jane (McKinley) Percival. Henry's mother was a McCormick so some of the posts on this stream have definitely piqued my interest. I believe Alexander had a brother, Arthur Percival (wife Elizabeth) and a brother Thomas Percival living close by in Brooklyn. The Cliffords and the Percivals lived side by side in Brooklyn for years and years. If anyone knows of Percivals who emigrated to Brooklyn in the early 1850s, or an associated with the Cliffords, I would be very interested. I have done quite a bit of research on the Cliffords in Brooklyn and Leitrim/Longford.
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Hi cliffordsclarks,I just found your message.
Unfortunately I cant see a direct link with my family but I'm sure it's the same family of Percivals. We repeat Alexander,Thomas and Arthur as first names often.
I think many went to the US during the famine and just 2 came here to Australia an Arthur and Henry although Henry returned to die in Dublin.
One branch also ended up in New Zealand.
Certainly our Percivals intermarried with the McCormicks. I imagine he is still alive but there is a Percival McCormick who was an astronaut in the US. I have been in touch with him but it was at least ten years ago. He was definitely part of our family. Do you know of him?
Keep in touch. The furthest we can go back is our ggrandfathers father John born about 1795. We cannot find out whre the Percivals came from before Leitrim.
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hi, i notice you have been discussing Anne Rosemond/ Percival. new to root chat so not sure time frame involved! I would be very interested in any family still in the leitrim area that would be a contact. I am 4th generations down the line. If anyone is on ancestry website - find the 'Michalia' tree! thanks
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Hello everyone, I have just discovered your new posts on Rootschat!
I have been beavering away at Percival family history for about 25 years. If you go back and read my posts(why bother I'll start again) you will see that my mother was
Linnea Percival daughter born 1915 to William(born in NSW 1865)
son of Arthur born in Co Leitrim in 1828 to John Percival and Anne Rosemond
The Thomas you talk of who was the son of John P and Ann R was married to Margaret Irwin. He died in 1910. He is mentioned in the 1901 Census of Ireland. His family of 5 are the only non Catholics in the townland of Aughriman, Kiltoghert Co.Leitrim.
They had 8 children one of whom is John Shaw P (he dies in 1966). He marries Elizabeth Ann Browne and they had 4 children Kathleen ,Ivy ,John Alexander and Margaret. There are also some who die as infants.
About 14 years ago I went to visit Kathleen and Ivy. Kathleen was in her 90s and she and her sisters have now all died. I don't know about Alex who was a GP in Sligo (I think)
Thomas and Margaret also had another son William Alexander who migrated to New Zealand.He and his wife had three sons Thomas 1914,John 1921 and Campbell 1923.
They have all died but Cam did an enormous amount of Percival family history until his death this year.
I live in Melbourne,Victoria. When I was in Ireland visiting Kathleen in Mohill I drove over and had lunch with Sandy Perceval at Temple House. At that time Sandy referred to our family of Percivals as cousins but I have never been able to discover a blood connection.This is mainly due to the fact that we cannot discover where John Percival(our earliest forebear)was born in about 1795.
My family tree shows many connections with McCormacks and Jones and Irwins etc. They all seem to descend from John but where did he come from before he married Ann Rosemond?????
Patrick Perceval(note spelling) suggests we may be from the wrong side of the Perceval blanket but the only proof my be in the papers at Temple House. Rodney now looks after the house but his grand mother had a lot of papers in the past.
Here are some extra notes I have made in the past
"On the IGI I found some information that said William Perceval married Anne Rosemond (b) 1795 or 1815 Wexford Sligo.
There was a garrison in Longford at one time. Could the original Percival have been in the Army?
Viscount John Perceval was the 1st Earl of Egmont. The papers are in the National Library Ireland MIC/341
A John Percival held a lease in Newtownforbes in 1782. He was probaly at least 18 by this date which makes him born before 1764. This is possibly the father or grandfather of this John.
This John Percival does not have a son named John which was most unusual at that time. He names the earliest child we have a record of Alexander.Was this our John's father or is there an earlier son called John who dies?
There is an Alexander Percival who dies in Ennybegs,Co Longford not far from Lissargernal in 1860. He is 99 at death. Born c.1761 Could he be our John's father?
There is an Arthur who is born in c.1792 postmaster aged 28 who is the son of Alexander. Dies in Rusky. Co Longford."
Does anyone have any questions?
Suggestions?
I have a few family contacts still in Ireland if we need research
I've had my DNA done......have all of you? I did it through Ancestry.com
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1. Are the ones buried in Coolaney Cemetery part of the Temple House family?
2. The family of 5 that are the only non Catholics in the townland of Aughriman, Kiltoghert Co.Leitrim.... are they buried in Kiltoghert?
3. The Newtownforbes ones... Are they buried in Newtownforbes? or Longford?
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1. Coolaney is near Temple House so I imagine so.....how is the surname spelt?
2.I don't know. Why?
3.Not sure.
Why do we want to know where they are buried?
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1. Coolaney is near Temple House so I imagine so....how is the surname spelt? Perceval
2.I don't know. Why? Was going to ask gravedigger who has the Cemetery ledgers!
3.Not sure. Why do we want to know where they are buried? To see if there are Name/Dates on gravestones!
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easy to find out - my mum lives next door to the graveyard in Rathbarron, Coolaney in the old rectory!
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easy to find out - my mum lives next door to the graveyard in Rathbarron, Coolaney in the old rectory!
Yes..that is for the Coolaney ones!
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Very much look fooling forward to hearing what your mother has to say
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Marc I’ve lost your post with your email address. If it is the btinternet one then I have it from ages ago. I need it to share my tree
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following this with interest, as my sons link into Percival via Alexander Montgomery m Annie Percival 26 Jan 1888 Killoe, Longford.
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following this with interest, as my sons link into Percival via Alexander Montgomery m Annie Percival 26 Jan 1888 Killoe, Longford.
Here's the link to the marriage.
Alexander MONTGOMERY to Annie PERCIVAL at Killoe Parish Church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1888/10759/5923856.pdf
Alexander, a labourer, living at Mucknagh townland.
https://www.townlands.ie/longford/longford/killoe/cloonee/mucknagh/
KG
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Many thanks KG, I'm trying to get to grips with the Irish records, especially the lack of more recent ones too!! Handy to see the parish.
Have found the next generation down too Montgomery/Vance, the challenge is now working which line a paternal grandfather came from!
S
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The townland of Currawn in Co. Leitrim is near Mohill.
Curraun townland NNE of Mohill.
https://www.townlands.ie/leitrim/mohill/mohill/mohill/curraun/
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2310877#map=13/53.9359/-7.8466
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Hello Linny1,
Everyone who has an interest in Co. Longford must have a copy of “St Paul’s Historic Graveyard Newtownforbes, Co. Longford” Burial Records from 1696 to 2016. Contact Maura and Desmond Mooney at Meadow Court, Newtownforbes.
I have been remiss in not following up the Percivals in Australia and so completely missed out your direct connection to the Percival Aircraft Co. And its great part in aviation history.
You have no idea how wonderful it is to have a real “Biggles” type in my “O’Neill and Lockhart Family Tree” and now to look forward to name dropping amongst the descendants of all the various vagabonds, charlatans and snake-oil salespersons I seem to have collected on it over the years.
But I do need some cross-checking with the details of Henry Percival (1823-1895) and perhaps you may accept this challenge:-
Henry, son of John P and Anne Rosemond-
Went to Australia with his brother Arthur in 1853 and
Returned to Ireland 1859 and
Married Frances Percival 20 Dec 1860 and
Had a dau Annie P in 1862 and
Returned to Australia about 1862 and
Returned to Ireland in 1889 and
Married Selina Moore in 1891 and
Had dau Selina Roy Percival in 1892 and
Died in 1895. Do not know location of grave.
I thought that our Henry had a slightly riotous life but it was only later that I followed his other connections in Dublin. This brought me to the Moore/Stephenson family of Drogheda, and to the Wilkins family. William Wilkins MA was a Headmaster of the High School in Dublin and since my grandson would be going there I decided to take a look at their web site. This time I decided that I would follow through with these Wilkins and check them all, one by one. Oh dear! Follow the trail from William to Edgar to Maurice and you will see what perseverance can do!
Talking about DNA, you boast that you have had your DNA done. Well, I had mine done, and you are nowhere in sight. Hmmm… you did mention something about being the wrong side of the blanket. Ha!
I have 594 fourth cousins or closer and I do admit that I wake up in the middle of the night and think “what have I done to deserve all this?”
Let us know what you think about our Henry!
David
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......my gt gndmother Ellen Percival (b.1848 probably Co. Longford) who m. Robert Jones (1847 - 1915) in Mohill Parish Church.
Here's the marriage for others - 4th September 1873. Robert Jones was a sub-constable in the R.I.C. living in Tyrellspass. Ellen living in Cloonagier (sic).
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1873/11280/8137936.pdf
Cloonageeher townland
https://www.townlands.ie/longford/longford/mohill/newtown-forbes/cloonageeher/
Death of Robert Jones 1915
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1915/05272/4463411.pdf
1911 census
Residents of a house 19 in Cloonageeher (Newtownforbes, Longford)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Longford/Newtownforbes/Cloonageeher/586837/
KG
Edited to Add:
Ellen Jones nee Percival died 1916. Sarah Jones, her daughter was the informant.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1916/05251/4455551.pdf
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Death of Robert Jones 1915
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1915/05272/4463411.pdf
Ellen Jones nee Percival died 1916.
Sarah Jones, her daughter was the informant.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1916/05251/4455551.pdf
Sarah Jones married Henry Abbott (a sergeant in R.I.C.) on 18th April 1917 in Mohill Parish Church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09746/5536848.pdf
Two children 1918-1920, Eleanor Frances 1918 and Henry 1920.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qja/
KG
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Hi David,
Is that David O'N who is a DNA match to my son?!! 8)
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I'm Neil Percival, descended from John, then Thomas, then William then Thomas (my dad). We are the New Zealand connection or one of them! This research string is very interesting.
Looking at the confusion re the apparent appearance of John Percival / Anne Rosemond both in Longford and Leitrim, it is my understanding that they started in Longford and shifted to near Drumshambo on the death of the father of Anne Rosemond. I think this meant they were moving from a tenant situation to land ownership. I think this information was from Margaret or Kathleen (my dad's first cousins).
I understand this land was lost/confiscated in the 'Land Commissions' after the formation of the Irish Free State and at that stage they shifted to near Mohill. This would be researchable.
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Hello everyone, So, 29 years after I started enquiring about my Percival family from my English uncle Robert Percival FRCS FRCOG we are no further along the road to discovering where our Percival family originated. I am now 77 and need to deal with this.
I suspect that John b.1795(?) was at least second generation in Ireland.
Ancestry DNA relates me to all of you Neil, Amanda, Larry, Bill's wife and perhaps others and between us I think we have a very comprehensive tree since 1815
It would appear that many of the Percival men were RIC, some were tenant farmers. One was a bog ranger(a bit disappointing),a postmaster, bailiff.
They were protestant.
Did they arrive in the military?
Did they come with some planted landowner?
Were they Scots or English originally?
Unfortunately DNA on Ancestry only goes back to John's generation as far as I can see so I don't have any Percival matches from any earlier people.
What do we do next?
I'm almost at the point of calling in an expert to help. Does anyone else want to be involved in this?
I think I'm crowd sourcing here!
Who do we approach?
Anyway I'd like to hear opinions