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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: timaussie on Thursday 24 July 08 06:47 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find the birth/baptisms in Northiam, East Sussex for the following children of Elizabeth Tree (nee Ashdown]:
Charles - about 1806
Griffess - about 1808
Edward - about 1812
There maybe others.
If anyone has access to the Parish records Iwould appreciated a check.
Thanks,Tim
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The IGI at www.familysearch.org (http://www.familysearch.org) has one of the baptisms, but they appear to be submitted entries so should be treated with caution. Also some others.
William 12 Jan 1794
David 22 May 1796
Mary 10 Nov 1799
James 27 Nov 1803
Charles 2 Mar 1806
There is an Edward 7 Apr 1811, but no parents listed
If you can get to a LDS Family history Centre you can order and view a microfilm of the Northiam parish registers. They are available on two films which cover the PRs from 1558-1901.
Ian C
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Well I got the LDS film of the Northiam parish register. It confirmed the baptims to William and Elizabeth TREE for William(1794), David, Mary, James and Charles(1806). [Edward was a base child of Maria Tree, so not connected].
There was no other baptisms unfortunately to confirm my Griffess Tree who was supposedly born 3Sept1808, Northiam was part of this family.
There was one Tree burial to 1812, a William Tree (40)-11Jul1812 - The Father?
and a marriage of a Elizabeth Tree(widow) to Richard Hicks 20Jun1813 - The Mother remarried?
There was a marriage of Charles Tree to Eliza Lawrence on 29Jan1829 and a witness appears to be a Griffess Tree. So maybe my Griffess is connected to this family. But there no record of any of the other bros/sisters.
So were do I go from here as I have hit a roadblock? Any suggestions?.
I have not found William & Elizabeth TREE or Richard and Elizabeth HICKS in census records but maybe someone is better able to track them down.
IGI for baptims of Griffess Tree in 1808 was unsuccessfull. Any other suggestions how to track him down.?
Griffess Tree reappears in the records with marriage in Rye on 1Jul1833 and baptism of first two children in Rye, Sussex soon after before leaving England for Australia. His occupation was shoemaker.
Any further thoughts would be appreciated.
Tim
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Hi Aussietim
I am just new to the forum and signed up because I saw your message on a google search. My Great Great Grandfather was Daniel James Tree, I have him as being born 1802 in Sussex, he arrived in Australia 1839 on the ship Resource and was a shoemaker. One of his sons to his 2nd marriage (married 4 times) was Robert Griffiths Tree born 1856.
With the name of Griffiths, and the similar dates do you think there is a connection? Maybe a brother to the one you are looking for?
I have more information, I just have not been able to find it as yet.
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Sorry, forgot to say that my Daniel James Tree was from Northiam on our records, and I seem to remember his father was William.
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Hi Nellesayshi,
There maybe a connection but I can"t find any records to support it.
The Northiam parish records do not have a Daniel Tree baptised to William & Elizabeth Tree around 1802 (or any time) although these two have other children from 1794 to 1806 as mentioned earlier.
FYI
Looking back over my notes, the Northiam parish records do indicate the following only Daniel Tree baptised:
Children of William & Martha Tree:
14 Mar 1780 - Elizabeth, burial 20 Mar 1780
29 Dec 1782 - Henry
5 Dec 1784 - Maria & Elizabeth twins
4 Jun 1786 - Thomas
8 Jun 1788 - Jane
30 May 1790 - Delcia
3 Feb 1793 - Martha
8 May 1796 - William
18 Nov 1798 - Daniel [Could his be your Daniel? Are you sure of 1802?]
There was also the following possibly related burial:
28 Jun 1799 Martha wife of William aged 40
There was no married record for William/Martha.
Hope this may help in your quest.
Tim
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Hi Tim
Thanks for this. I will look further into that connection. It may be possible that this is my Daniel, as all I have is that he was 35 when he migrated to Australia in 1838. He may have had a sister Mary Ann Cecilia Tree who lived with his family in Adelaide for a while... cant see her name in your list so will have to dig a little more.
Kind regards
Nelle
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Hi Aussietim
I also have been trying to verify the IGI entries for Griffiths Tree and Elizabeth King for some time, without any success. Until I came across other Northiam Tree families in the England censuses (often indexed as Free), I was beginning to suspect that he had changed his name.
I am not certain of the accuracy of Elizabeth Ashdown as his mother. The only place I have seen mention of Elizabeth Ashdown is on Griffess Trees' death certificate, so it could be fuzzy memory on the part of his wife - particuarly as the Tree surname is not mentioned, just the mother's maiden(?) name. Have you seen Elizabeth Ashdown mentioned on any other documentation?
There is an entry in the Burial Parish Records on FindMyPast for William Tree, age 40, about 1812 in Northiam. This could be the father of Griffiths Tree, particularly with Griffiths's first son was named William.
I am hoping that eventually the Northiam information will be indexed and available on the Internet, so I keep searching. I have written to the Sussex Family History Society requesting a lookup of the marriage of Griffiths Tree, and will post any info I receive.
Regards
Judy
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The only Griffith Tree marriage on the Sussex Marriage Index is to Elizabeth King in Rye 1st July 1833. No further details. William Tree married Martha French in Ewhurst 14th Feb 1780. I can't see an Elizabeth Ashdown to William Tree marriage anywhere. May be they married in Kent? Not very far away. Might be worth a specifc request on the Kent board.
If you become a member of the Sussex Family History Group then you have access to many baptisms etc that they have transcribed. Well worth it, particularly if you are miles away.
Regards
Andrea
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Hi Andrea
Thank you for your response. The marriage of Griffiths Tree and Elizabeth King is listed in the IGI, but with no reliable source information, so I am pleased to have this confirmed.
The Northiam area appears to be in Kent at the time of the 1851 census, so I now search both Kent and Sussex for info.
I will investigate joining the Sussex FHS. Thanks for the tip.
Regards
Judy
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Hi Judy,
I have found the marriage !
It is on the Mid-Kent Marriages Site.
9 July 1792 Elizabeth Ashdown m William Tree in the Parish of Woodchurch Tenterden District of Kent.
Regards
Sean
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Hi Sean
Thanks heaps for the info. This all seems to fit really well and has helped greatly.
Regards
Judy
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Hi Judy,
What is your connection to William Tree / Elizabeth Ashdown and Griffess Tree/Elizabeth King? Iam through Lois daughter of GT/EK
I have confirmed the 1Jul1833 marriage of Griffess Tree/Elizabeth King from the parish church records of Rye, Sussex (LDS film-1067289). The record does not give much further details except "both of this parish" and they were "batchlor/Spinster". Both signed their names. Witnesses all signed: Daniel Tree, Maria King, Martha King, Mary Tree.
A search of Rye parish records indicates this is the place of the Kings but not the Trees.
The only reference of Elizabeth Ashdown like you was on the Aust. death cert of Griffess Tree in 1870. Informant was his daughter.
I have also found the web info on WT/EA marriage in Woodchurch, Kent but it has no baptisms for Tree or Ashdown so not sure where to go next with this.
Regards,Tim
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Hi Tim
My relationship to Griffiths Tree(s) and Elizabeth King is through their 2nd son, Alfred James Tree(s).
The info you mention from the parish records fits in with the other data that I have found. Is the LDS record an actual image of the parish record, or just a more detailed index? Was his christian name spelt Griffiths or Griffess in this record?
I have an obituary for Griffess Trees published in The Christian Advocate in Sep 1870 listing his date of birth as 3 Sep 1808. Presumably this information was given by Elizabeth King, so hopefully is accurate.
Do you have any more information on the Kings? Because this is a fairly common name, I'm not very confident that the information I have is correct.
As more and more data becomes available over the Internet all the time, I just keep looking in the hope that the information will magically appear. However, searching for the surname 'Tree' can be like looking for the needle in the haystack.
Regards
Judy
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Hi Judy,
Great to find another 'Trees' branch researcher. We can now continue to share info directly via regular email if you wish rather than through this forum. You can contact me direct to start with by clicking on the blue 'timaussie' and in my profile under additional information click on 'send this rootchatter a personal message'.
The marriage of GT/EK has him recorded as Griffiths but he signed his name Griffess. Also the baptisms of first children were recorded as William Griffess and Sarah Elizabeth with father Griffess. These spellings are as recorded from actual images of parish records. I can send them to you. I have managed to also work out some of the King tree which I can share.
I have heard of the obituary you mention but would be interested in seeing a copy.
Regards,Tim
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Hi guys I found this thread while randomly searching the Internet for information on my great grandfather x3 griffess trees.although I am 3 yrs too late. Any information you may have found in the meantime would be great. I've tried to pm you both but the option won't come up. Hoping to hear from someone. Thanks
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What info are you looking for regarding Griffess Trees?
Judy
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Mainly who his parents are etc. I've hit a road block on ancestry .com
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Griffess Trees' death certificate lists his mother's name as Elizabeth Ashdown (unknown father). Elizabeth Ashdown married William Tree in Woodchurch, Tenterden, Kent (about 12 miles from Northiam) in 1792 according to the Mid-Kent Marriages website. William and Elizabeth baptised 5 children between 1793 and 1806 in Northiam, but Griffess (born 3 Sep 1808 according to his obituary) either wasn't baptised, was baptised elsewhere or the record has been missed/lost. A William Tree (aged 40) was buried in Northiam in 1812, so this is most likely Griffess' father. Elizabeth Tree (widow) married Richard Hicks in Northiam in 1813, presumably for help supporting the 6 children. Have not been able to determine exactly what happened to Elizabeth Ashdown after this.
Hope this helps.
Regards
Judy
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Hi I am searching for Daniel James Tree born 1798/1802 Northiam Sussex, England wife and is the mother to Adeline b.1831 Northiam, Sussex, and her brother Edwin b.1834. They all came to South Australia in 1839 on the "resource" but Adeline's mother had died on the voyage as did their infant child. Not so sure if his parents are that of William and Martha. Not even sure if Mary Cecilia Tree is his cousin or sister.....He did married twice more in Adelaide to Charlotte Manning and had 5 boys of which one is called Robert Griffiths Tree, also married a Elizabeth Houghton & Sarah Louvel. they is also a possible marriage to a Eliza Parkinson. His daughter Adeline has two daughters that she has name Elizabeth & Eliza...Elizabeth was her first born. I was wondering could Daniel James Tree have married a Elizabeth and her being Adeline & Edwin's mother.
If i could get some help with finding Adeline's mother it would be great. Thanks in advance.
Lisa
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Hi and welcome
The only marriage for a Daniel Tree on the Sussex marriage Index is to Mary Boots in 1803. It is in Northiam. There isn't anything later for your Daniel James Tree. I wasn't quite clear what his first wife was called.
You may find it worth while to join the Sussex Family History Group as they have a lot of Northiam records available online for members. Having said that, I can't see baptisms for Adeline or Edwin in Northiam. The only baptism in Northiam for Daniel is the one in 1798 to William and Martha.
Andrea
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Thank you Sillgen, for a real quick response so much appreciated....the marriage to Daniel tree and Mary Boots may not been mine. Just have to keep searching. And i will give the Sussex Family Group a go as well. :D
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Having looked further it seems as if Daniel and Mary had their children baptised in Beckley and another parish I can't remember now so not likely to be yours.
Andrea
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Thanks Sillgen for your geneous help. ;)
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Hello,
I just very new to the Family History searching, but am related to Griffess Tree, my paternal great, great grandfather, and was wondering if anyone has additional information to all that was discovered below?
Best regards,
Colin
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Hi Treehug
When looking for Daniel Tree in the English records, do not include the middle name. Daniel James (born 1852 in SA) was actually the son of Daniel Tree (bap 1798 in Sussex). The SA records have actually mixed this up a bit, which is where the confusion has occurred. According to FamilySearch, a Marian Celia Tree was born to Daniel and Mary Tree - baptised in Bethersden, Kent, in 1817. Daniel Tree and Mary Hodges married a couple of weeks earlier in Bethersden. I think Daniel (b 1798) and Griffess were related through their fathers, who were first cousins. A Daniel Tree witnessed the marriage of Griffiths and Elizabeth, which I assume was most likely this Daniel. It's really unfortunate that none of the records mention the name of the Daniel's wife. It's also possible his first wife died and he married again, then had Adeline and Edwin (both born in the 1830s in England). Or children born between Mary Ann and Adeline died or didn't want to come to Australia.
Hope this helps.
Judy
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Hi Colin
What info are you looking for in regarding to Griffess?
Did I meet you in LCPL 2 decades ago?
Regards
Judy
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Hi Judy,
I am trying to trace the parents of both Griffess Tree and his wife Elizabeth Tree, who migrated to Australia and landed in Sydney on the Duchess of Northumberland, 22 April 1838.
I do not believe that I met you in LCPL 20 decades ago, especially as I'm not even sure what LCPL stands for.
Regards,
Colin
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Hi again Judy,
Please see the attachment from where Griffess & Elizabeth Tree arrived in Sydney on the Duchess of Northumberland on 22 April 1838.
Regards,
Colin
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Hi Colin
Griffess' death certificate lists his mother as Elizabeth Ashdown. As mentioned elsewhere in this blog, Elizabeth Ashdown married William Tree in 1792 in Woodchurch, Tenterden, Kent. This is very close to Northiam, so I think it's highly likely that these were the parents of Griffess Tree(s). By the time Griffess was born in 1808 the couple had 6 children. I have not been able to find a baptism for Griffess, but can think of numerous scenarios for the omission. William died in 1812 and could have been ill for some time, making it difficult for Elizabeth to organise a baptism for Griffess being one possibility.
Tracking down Elizabeth King's parents I found a bit trickier. I had quite some help for this from TimAussie, who I think you have also tried to contact. FamilySearch lists a baptism for Elizabeth King son of James and 'Mary' King in Rye, 24 Feb 1811. Tim had gone through the films at an LDS library and thought the 'Mary' was a mistake, and that it should have been Sarah. Looking at the children on James and Sarah it fits, particularly as the witnesses to the marriage of Griffess and Elizabeth were Daniel Tree, Maria King, Martha King, Mary Tree and Frederick King. James and Sarah had daughters Maria and Mary, and James had a brother Frederick who was nearly 20 years his junior.
Elizabeth King's brother, James Kelsey King, also came out to Australia, in 1939, and died in Sydney in 1893.
I tried to contact TimAussie some time ago without success. He may have changed his email address or just stopped researching. Would be interested to know if you have any response from him.
Regards
Judy
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Hi Judy and Colin
Just letting you know that I am eavesdropping on your conversation as I have been following this thread for a while as Daniel Tree was my Great Great Grandfather. I have access to the Sussex online birth and death database, and have just received the marriage disc though I have not yet had time to look at it.
I am hoping to find the common ancestor for our two lines of the family.
Its interesting to note that your Griffiths is noted as a shoemaker, as is my Daniel. My Daniel's father was a saddler, but died when my Daniel was still a toddler, with his mother not long after that. Makes me wonder who raised my Daniel. Would love to find some census entries from that time.
Nelle
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The first major census is 1841. There are isolated earlier census records for some places but not many. Before that you have to rely on church records.
The only marriage for Daniel Tree on the SMI is the 1803 one in Northiam to Mary Boots which has been mentioned before.
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Thanks Sillgen
That marriage won't be for my Daniel as he would have only been a small boy at the time! I will spend some time poking around and hopefully find out more on his parents and grandparents with related siblings. Its just going to take time, but no surprises there.
I have his parents as William Tree (1744-1896) and Martha French (1752-1799), and William's Father was another William (1710-1786) married to Mary Attison ( - 1793). Thats about it for what I have on them so far, but have not seriously tried to reconstruct their extended families to understand the links yet.
I am going to Sussex later this year so may also try my luck at the Hastings Family History Centre and will also have a wander around the churches. Not very efficient, but its a holiday so thats ok.
Nelle
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Hi Nelle
I've done a rough chart of how I think your Daniel Tree is related to Griffess Tree, which I hope is attached to this post. They were 2nd cousins once removed (I think).
Northiam is VERY close to the Kent border, so a lot of the family events happened over the border. If you can get to the new Records Office in Brighton you might find out more for the Sussex events, but you need to go to Maidstone for the Kent records. I would be interested to know whether you find much relevant info at the HRFHS - I can't find much info on their website regarding their catalogue. How long are you going to be in Hastings? It's about 1.25 hours by train to Brighton and 1.5 hours by train to Maidstone.
Did you realise that FamilySearch has some Northiam bishop's transcripts images online that can be viewed for free? I've only recently discovered this. You just need to create an account and log in to see them. Some Kent records are also viewable on the FamilySearch website, but I think this may need to be done from an LDS library. Copyright varies from county to county.
Your comments about your Daniel had me confused, but I assume you mean that William Tree (b 1744) and Martha Tree (nee French) died around 1800. Your Daniel could have been brought up by William Tree and Elizabeth Ashdown, as they had a young family at the same time. This would explain why Daniel was a witness to Griffess and Elizabeth Tree's marriage. Would be interested in the details of this family for my database. Have you obtained this info from the 'Sussex online birth and death database'? Was this created by the Sussex family history society? Have you found any entries for children on Daniel Tree before his migration to Australia?
Regards
Judy
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Thank you very much Judy, this is interesting and will give me a structure when I get my head back into the database!
Sadly I am only in Hastings for 5 days, with one of these planned for a hire car and a visit to Northiam, Brede and the HRFHS so won't have time for Brighton or Maidstone.
I did not know FamilySearch had that additional information so I will certainly look for that. I did find a lovely little scan of a church ledger on findmypast.com.au with the details of the Marriage Banns called for Daniel Tree and Mary Hodges, that helped to clear up two different marriage dates in two different locations that I found on a different ledger.
You did correctly interpret my comments about the 1800 deaths of William Tree and Martha French. I was wondering as well whether Daniel may have been raised with Griffiths, especially as one of his sons, my Great Grandfather was baptised Robert Griffiths Tree. The fact that they were both shoemakers also makes me wonder if this may have been a family trade.
I have details of births of children to both William Tree/Elizabeth Ashdown and also William Tree/Martha French that I did source from the Sussex Family History Society. Griffiths does not appear in either as previously noted. Was it one of these families that you wanted the details for? I also have details of Daniel Tree's subsequent marriages and children in Australia.
I also have a list of children for Daniel Tree (1774-1840) and Mary Boots. This is not my Daniel, and I don't quite know where he fits in as I have not started on that generation yet.
Nelle
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A quick update on this, have just checked the Sussex Family History Society Database and can confirm the following:
William Tree with wife Mary (no maiden name listed, but I presume Attison) had the following children baptised in Brede:
Mary - 8 May 1737
John - 4 February 1738/39
Sarah - 16 August 1741 (buried 19 Sept 1742)
Daniel - 16 August 1747
William - 24 June 1744
John had a baby son John baptised 21 November 1769, buried 26 November 1769, also in Brede. In Ewhurst with wife Mary he further had a son William baptised 5 July 1772 and son Daniel baptised 14 August 1774. This is the Daniel that married Mary Boots and is not my Daniel as the dates don't come anywhere close to matching.
William born 1744 (brother to John) is the one who married Martha French and had son Daniel who migrated to Australia.
So yes Judy, you were absolutely spot on with your theory about the relationship between Daniel and Griffiths!
I have hit a bit of a wall with our William (father of John and William) born around 1700 though. Do you have any idea who his parents may be? I can't find a birth or baptism record for him.
Regards
Nelle
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Hi Nelle
It's a shame you're only in Hastings for a short time, but probably no matter how long you had there it would never be enough. I was in the UK for 8 weeks a couple of years ago, driving from Sussex/Kent, Wiltshire/Gloucestershire, North Lincolnshire, Suffolk and Essex, and TNA in Kew, but I only scratched the surface. If you're driving in the UK I strongly suggest setting up a GPS to take with you, especially if you're on your own. If you download maps to a smartphone you won't need a data connection.
I have the Daniel who married Mary Boots listed as the uncle of Griffiths Tree (ie, a first cousin of your Daniel Tree). It's therefore feasible that the uncle witnessed the marriage of Griffiths Tree and Elizabeth King, except that by 1833 Daniel had 8 children and was living in Bodiam (and the wedding was in Rye). I was interested in you 'killing off' William and Martha which could explain the links between your Daniel and the William & Elizabeth Tree family and put your Daniel as the witness.
William Tree / Mary Attison is the limit for me as well. The online Northiam bishop's transcripts in FamilySearch start at 1606, so if he was baptised there it should be possible to track him down. However, it's highly likely that he was baptised in another parish, or in Kent, if at all. What is the starting date for the online database of baptisms and burials that you have access to?
Regards
Judy
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Hi Judy
The starting date is around 1549 I think. I did a full Sussex search on all William Trees and Wm Trees for the dates of 1690 to 1720 and could not find anything, and also looked at every single Tree, Atree, Attree, Ate and Atee for Northiam, Ewhurst and Brede baptism records. There is a bit more scope for searching yet within the burials and other towns so not giving up yet!
Martha's burial is recorded as 28 June 1799 in Northiam and is noted as 'w William', would the w stand for Widow? Or With? Either way when double checking I could not find William (Martha's husband) burial which is strange as I could have sworn I noted it earlier. Other family Trees indicate a burial around 1796, but I will keep looking until I find the proper record. Daniels baptism is recorded as 18 November 1798 and he was the last child born to William and Martha.
Will see if I am up for a bit more searching after I finish work today :)
Regards
Nelle
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Hi Judy
Found William, he was under the name of Attree. William Attree, buried 1 August 1796 in Brede. I have found quite a few instances within the family line of both spellings, especially with regards to children. It is listed as an alias within many of the birth entries for the family.
So, if Daniel was baptised 18 November 1798, and with William's death 2 years earlier it looks like Martha might have been in mourning for a bit, or perhaps her own ill health (as she was buried 28 June 1799 age 40+) delayed the baptism. The previous child was born 8 May 1796 and was another William, so Dad passed around 3 months after the birth of the second last child.
It would have been tough for the family with 9 surviving children under the age of 18 when Martha passed.
Nelle
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Hi Nelle
I've been going through the Northiam bishop's transcripts and found Martha's death record. She's listed as 'wife of Wm', so I assume that William was still alive at that time as numerous other women were listed just as 'widow'. She was buried a couple of days after James Tree, an infant (age 3/4, which I assume is 9 months). Can't find his baptism in Northiam, and these incidents may not be related. It would be very coincidental if they weren't.
I think the 1796 William Tree record you saw was the baptism of the son of William and Martha, not a burial. The Northiam records show a burial of William Tree of Beckley, age 74, on 8 Feb 1820. This age makes his birth very close to the 1744 baptism for William Tree, and Beckley is only about 2 miles from Northiam.
Hope this all makes sense. It gets very confusing, especially with all the similar names.
Regards
Judy
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Hi Judy
1 August 1796 in Brede is definitely a burial record, but your theory is quite likely as William and Martha had a son baptised in Northiam on 8 May 1796, and William and Elizabeth had a child baptised as William Attree on 12 January 1794 also in Northiam, so it could be either of them, more likely the latter.
I found the burial record for William Tree of Beckley in the SFHG records... but strangely not in the Northiam or Beckley files. I did a targeted full database search for William Tree in 1820 and there it was, clearly listed as Northiam, but not in the file. Beats me. It does make more sense though with Daniels baptism in 1798.
On that note I *might* have found our Grandfather William's birth record. There is a William Attree born in Westfield (another town close by) baptised 6 May 1705 to parents William Attree and Mary Thomas, married Westfield 24 April 1704. Just to be even more confusing with generational identification they also had a son John Attree baptised 9 April 1707.
I found another William Tree born in Cranbrook, Kent on 28 April 1690 and baptised 10 June 1690 to parents Francis and Margaret. Even though its close in location I don't think this is our William as it would make him 47 at the birth of his first child. William Attree would be 32, much more likely.
Didn't find any other William Trees or Attree variants in the time span 1690 to 1720 in this general location though.
What do you think?
Regards
Nelle
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Hi Nelle
I found the birth of William in 1794 in the bishop's transcripts. It's listed there as William Tree, but with a small notation underneath which looks like 'also Attree'. If the original parish records show the baptism as Attree, my assumption is that the person who performed or wrote up the parish records was a temporary relief unfamiliar with the locals (possibly from Westfield), but the person who transcribed for the bishop's transcripts was a local and knew the Tree family. Whether the Tree and Attree families are related will be hard to determine, but the 1705 baptism for William Attree seems appropriate.
As I do not have access to the databases on the SFHG website, I can't say why William's 1820 burial doesn't seem to be there. Databases are very handy, but they don't cover everything. I like to go to the original as well. I'm now also seeing the benefit of viewing the bishop's transcripts as well as the original parish records, although only the bt are online at familysearch. Ordering the film of the Northiam parish records is on my list....
Your comment about the William Tree at Cranbrook is interesting. He could actually be the grandfather of our William Tree. Or, our family may be his second (or third...) family. The classic example for this is Daniel James Tree, first child born to Charlotte Manning and Daniel Tree in 1852 when Daniel was about 54.
In your searches of the database on the SFHG site, have you come across baptisms for Adeline and Edwin Tree, or any other children on Daniel? Or a 2nd marriage in England?
Will let you know if I find anything.
Regards
Judy
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Hi Judy
When I triple checked the SFHG database for Northiam burials I did find the 1820 death for William after all, so it was either operator failure (more likely) or an inconsistent data retrieval search programming error. More likely it was me, but I will watch and see if any other instances.
Its interesting to note that our young William Attree (1794) was the one we thought may have been the William Attree death in 1796 in Brede. If they are related, he would have been the grandson of the Westfield William Attree (1705) with the elder dying possibly in 1786 also in Brede (Recorded burial in Brede William Attree 5 January 1786). I am wondering if William the younger was named for his Grandfather. Within the SFHG records William the younger was recorded both in the Attree name section and in the Tree section with each name as an alias to the other. Attree was also recorded in both instances (Grandfather and Grandson) as both birth and burial names.
I think I found other instances of the Attree alias, but I will double check. It may have just been William the younger that I wrote in a couple of places.
Another thing that I noticed, the other William who was buried in 1820 of Beckley was likely to have relocated there from Northiam to live with or near his oldest son Henry. Henry has records of two children born in Beckley, Thomas 1805 and Martha 1812 with wife Elizabeth. Henry was born in Northiam to William and Martha.
It could be possible that Cranbrook William may be the Grandfather instead of Westfield William Attree also, if it was a second family. I am leaning towards Westfield William though as the Attree name and location of the Grandson pulls the strands closer. Will dig some more around this and see if I can find anything further on either William.
I didn't come across any other baptisms at all for Daniel's children, or other marriages in England. I only found the Maryann Celia one in Kent, same as you. He definitely does not have a marriage listed in the Sussex database. I also had a good look to see if I could find any baptisms for Griffess/Griffiths but no luck there either. I did find his marriage record though.
Now, getting back to the Attree link, and a fun little side track I went down... I did just a generic Google search on 'Attree name origin'. The more boring explanation was something like 'He lives at the Tree', but an alternative and more interesting explanation was that it was actually derived from the old English 'atta reid' (from the clearing) or atta rie (from the river bank... or something similar). It turns out the town name of Rye is also derived from rie, or the (river) bank. Given the close proximity of our locations to Rye, I am thinking the name Attree (whether our or not) quite literally means At Rye, or Of Rye. The earliest recorded instance of the name was for John ate Reghe of Sussex in 1287. So, even if not relevant for our family I still found it quite interesting.
Another thing I noticed is the male line tends to live well into their 80's. Its a healthy lot (if they survive infancy).
Regards
Nelle.
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Hi Nelle
Your info regarding the derivation of the name Tree was interesting and could explain why it's so popular around Rye.
This brings me to another theory on the missing baptism for Griffiths/Griffess Tree. According to his obituary in the Methodist newspaper, he was born a couple of months after the burial of his father, William Tree. Griffiths and Elizabeth married in Rye, and I think it's possible that the Tree family moved to Rye after William's death. Possibly they became Wesleyans there, with the King family. I know the Tree family in NSW were very committed Wesleyans, and Elizabeth's brother, James Kelsey King, is buried in the Old Wesleyan area of Rookwood Cemetery in Sydney, so maybe Griffiths was never baptised in an Anglican church.
Or he may have been baptised in a church in or near Rye that hasn't been indexed yet, or he records were lost, or his record is unreadable....
Elizabeth apparently marrying Richard Hicks in Northiam throws a bit of a spanner in my theory of the move to Rye. Then again, Richard was also from Northiam I think.
It's possible the William Tree/Attree son of William and Elizabeth was the one who died in Brede, but I'm still fairly certain that this William is the brother of Griffiths, the first son of William and Elizabeth (Ashdown). In those days it was fairly common for first children to be named after the parent of the same sex and there doesn't appear to be another William in the family. I haven't tried to research many of the other children of William and Elizabeth, mainly because of a lack of certainty. Will see what I can find in the bt on FamilySearch.
You appear to be making a lot of use of the SFHG database. Have you been subscriber for long?
Regards
Judy
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Hi Judy
I have only been a subscriber of the SFHG for about a month, but I must say I do like it. There are thousands of records, and you can search either by name and date or by parish. Some parishes have multiple churches and it lists them separately. Within each church record you can sort the data in alphabetical or date order. When you do a straight name search on the master index it brings up a list of parish folders where the individuals are recorded, but you really need to have a narrow focus on the search or you get too many records. With regards the baptism records in most cases it does give the names of the parents, and so I can confirm that William Attree born 1794 was definitely the first registered baptism to William Tree and Elizabeth (no surname given for mothers).
Also, the Wesley Church at Rye is in the database! I have looked for Griffess there but had no luck finding him.
These are the births I have for this family (William and Elizabeth Ashdown)
William Attree - 12 January 1794 - Northiam
David Tree - 22 May 1796 - Northiam
Mary Tree - 10 November 1799 - Northiam
James Tree - 27 November 1803 - Northiam (buried 22 May 1823)
Charles Tree - 2 March 1806 - Northiam. Married Eliza Lawrence. Charles buried 17 January 1772, Eliza buried 12 August 1862 aged 52.
I am missing the births for Griffess in 1808 and Edward in 1812 that I saw in an earlier message... but then, I wasn't looking for Edward, only Griffess. I will try looking for Edward, as that may give a hint as to where Griffess may be!
Then for William Tree and Martha I have:
baptised Northiam:
Elizabeth Tree - 14 May 1780
Henry Tree - 29 Dec 1782 - buried 11 March 1860 - married Elizabeth Upton 14 December 1804
Maria and Elizabeth Tree - twins - 5 December 1784
Thomas Tree - 4 June 1786 - buried 22 April 1793
Jane Tree - 8 June 1788
Delia Tree - 30 May 1790
Martha Tree - 3 Feb 1793
William Tree - 8 May 1796
Daniel Tree - 18 November 1798
baptised Ewhurst
Hannah Tree - 4 March 1781 (so child number 2)
For William Tree and Mary Attison I have (all in Brede):
Mary - 8 May 1737
John - 4 Feb 1738/39 (Around this time a lot of these split dates started showing. I don't know why, maybe a ledger that spanned multiple years?)
Sarah - 16 August 1741 - buried 19 September 1742
Daniel - 16 August 1747
William - 24 June 1744
I have tried to find your Bishops Transcripts on Family Search, but it is either not showing for me or I am looking in the wrong place. Where do you go to find this? All I found was a page saying that there were microfiche available from the LDS.
Regards
Nelle
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Hi All,
I am Colin Trees, and know that my , great great great grandfather was Griffess Tree (s), through his son, Willaim Griffess Tree (s), and my great grandfather, Ernest Edward Trees. Griffess Tree (s) arrived in Australia on 22 April 1838 and is buried in West Kempsey Cemetery, with his wife Elizabeth, where the "s" had been added to the surname. I was wondering if there have been any updates to the below most interesting research, as I am hoping to go the UK in September and am hoping to go to Northiam, Sussex.
Best regards,
Colin Trees