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Research in Other Countries => South Africa => Topic started by: suzyvan on Friday 25 July 08 00:39 BST (UK)
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HI List,
Can anyone help me please? ..... was it compulsory for British military to register their marriages 1895 in South Africa...... if so where are the records ....... are they accessable..... would their parents be mentioned on the certificate?
Have made contact with English GRO and they tell me it was not a requirement to register an overseas marriage in England then or even now.
Thank you for reading
Suzy
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Hi Suzy, yes it apparantly was not compulsory, but many were registered.
Findmypast.com provide access to the GRO INDEX ARMY MARRIAGES (and Births and Deaths).
This index will give you Surname, Name, Station, year and Page number.
If you are lucky enough to find your ancestor, you can use this info to order the certificate from GRO.
Give me your names and I will see if there is anything to be found.
Regards, Eric-C
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Eric-C,
Thank you for your help.
marriage is;
Robert Anderson-- --1 Feb 1895---Cape Town, South Africa-----to----- Barbara McPherson.
NB; Alexander- his 2nd name....... may or maynot be included?
The information has been given by Robert himself the father on some birth certificates I have purchased, have no actual proof, I would suspect it to be correct as a son was born following year 28 Vernon terrace, Cape Town, S A [have this birth certificate.]
I will be so grateful of anything you can turn up.
Thanks a million.
Suzy
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Rather strange. No Robert or Barbara found on Army marriages in Capetown, but did find:-
Anderson, James. Capetown, 1895, page 249
and
McPherson, Blanche. Capetown, 1895, page 249
These may or may not have married one another, only the certiface will confirm.
Also, on Ancestry's Military service records I found :-
Anderson, James, born about 1874, joined up 23/11/1892, Yorkshire Regt. Completed 21 years including service in Gibralter, South Africa and India.
Father Alexander, brothers, Robert (10), Alexander (7) and William (7)
Sisters Jane, Rose [A], Bella, Margaret.
Address 45 North Road, [Torres], Invermess.
This may be an irrelevant co-incidence, but it is interesting.
Good luck, Eric-C
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Thanks Eric-C,
That is a very interesting find on your behalf, makes one wonder why and if it is them with changed identities.
Robert committed suicide in 1912 at Edinburgh.
His fathers name was also Robert according to family records...from Scotland..not known where.
I agree with you about ......This may be an irrelevant co-incidence, but it is interesting.,,,,,,!
I would like to try and get a marriage certificate from South African registers but am unsure of the process,
Have put it into the too hard basket at moment but will definitely proceed with it shortly.
Thank you for your generosity for the look ups.
Suzy
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Hi Suzy and Eric-C,
With further reference to the James and Blanche ANDERSON of Cape Town :
Ellen Stanton posted the following transcription to the Rootsweb mailing list,
"Here is Installment #4 of Cape Town Birth Certificates for the year 1895. I have extracted all of the European names, and indexed the film by father's name, mother's maiden name, child's name (where given) and birth date. There is more information on each certificate that I did not transcribe. Most certificates have race, age, occupation, and place of birth for each parent, date of parent's marriage, number of other children (living and deceased), and the residence. If you would like a complete transcription of any of these, send me the Film #, the Item #, and the Entry # and Surname(s). Dates follow American convention of MMDDYY.
Microfilm #1926298
Cape Town Birth Certificates: 1895
Item 1
<snip>
Entry #1376
Husband: James ANDERSON
Wife: Blanche MCPHERSON
Child: James Henry
Born: 7/29/1895
______________________
Contacting Ellen might well prove or disprove this couple as being *yours*.
Ellen's email address is available on the web. Google her name and rootsweb as the search criteria.
best wishes
Leanne
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Suzy,
Another thought :
If you know the regiment he served in you might well be able to get insight into where he was born etc. I found a birth reference on an ancestor's discharge papers. If i'm not mistaken, Kew holds many of the military records.
cheers
Leanne
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Further info.
Ancestry's WW1 Pension records show:-
James Anderson of Aberdeen b abt 1863, attested 24/06/1885 to Royal Highlanders(Black Watch) at Perth
Father James Fraser Anderson
James A m Blanche McPherson at Capetown SA on 28/03/1895. witnesses JF Mcpherson, Janet McPherson
Children James Henry 27/09/1895 Capetown
George McPherson 21/07/1897 [Subashu]
Blanche 19/10/1899 [Sitapur] (Deceased)
Joan b [Kamptee] India 03/10/1901.
(Only Joan is shown in later papers)
Address 60 Marchmont Cres Edinburgh
After serving 21 years with destinction in the Black Watch, he reinlisted in 1914, serving until 1919.
If your robert committed suicide in 1912, then obviously not same person.
Regards, Eric-C
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Thank you so much Eric-c,
You certainly have gone all out for me...I do appreciate very much the trouble you have gone too.
Yes you have definitely proved that it was just a coincidence of same surnames, place and time, and Scottish as well.
I have been told as Robert Anderson [have the death certificate] committed suicide.... his records would have been destroyed.....so just leaves the marriage register in Cape Town South Africa as my last possible hope.
Thanks again.
Suzy
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Hello Leanne68,
Thank you for your help you have been so very generous of your time.
......Love your little twig on the side......
I will have to find a way of getting or seeing if there is a marriage registered in Cape Town, South Africa...it's my only hope now of ever resolving this brick wall.
Keep up the good work it is just so helpful bouncing of others.
Thank you again
Suzy
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Hi Suzy,
I think it might well be worth mailing Ellen to see whether she has done any Cape Town marriage transcriptions. Not all of her work has been uploaded.
She is such a helpful lady and has been so incredibly generous to the South African genealogy community.
Happy hunting!
Leanne
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Only army marriages which were conducted by an army chaplain would be registered at the GRO. Local church marriages would not be found in the GRO indexes. However not all army chaplain marriages have been indexed by the GRO, so if you know the regiment you can request the GRO to search that regiment's marriage index for the period of interest.
' If you are unable to find your ancestors in these records you should note that the Overseas department of the General Registry Office also holds additional records of regimental marriages taking place between 1761 and 1924 that have never been indexed.'
http://www.findmypast.com/helpadvice/knowledge-base/overseas-military/
Even if discharge papers no longer survive for Robert Anderson (WO97 has been checked?), if you know his regiment his service can be traced through the regimental muster books which may give additional information on his attestation and death (if he died when still in service).
Regards
Valda
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Hi Valda and List,
I have taken.... Leanne68.... advise to contact Ellen Stanton, already have a responce and 3 film numbers to order...... that should/could have the marriage record on them. .....Keep your fingers crossed!
Regarding army records at WO97 that has already been searched and not anything concrete was found, the other problem he kept changing his regiment name, this is info received from a very helpful gentleman of military thread.
>>>>>>>Medal roll and it says that 3763 Sergeant Robert Anderson earned the Queens South Africa medal with clasps for Orange Free State, Transvaal, South Africa 1901 and SA 1902. He was serving with the 1st Battalion of the Black Watch/Royal Highlanders<<<<<<<<
Thank you all
Suzy
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Hi All,
I at last have my marriage certificate from Cape Town South Africa........fantastic!
[I have taken.... Leanne68.... advise to contact Ellen Stanton, already have a responce and 3 film numbers to order...... that should/could have the marriage record on them] Ellen even suggested the film it maybe on and bingo there it was!
Thanks to all who responded with great suggestions, keep up the fantastic work.
From a very satisfied and grateful customer!
Suzy
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Hi Suzy,
Great work! Ordering and viewing the LDS films is not the easiest process and one has to keep fingers crossed that the records you are looking for are somewhat easy to read.
I'm curious to know whether the 1895 certificate listed parents and other details.
best wishes
Leanne
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Hi Leanne68,
>>>>>I'm curious to know whether the 1895 certificate listed parents and other details.<<<<<<
It included ages, condition, Consent by whom given or judge order!!
In my case he was a soldier; of full age; she was age twenty so given permission by her guardian, whom I had never heard of! also had witnesses and place of marriage; by banns; and name of minister; in this case Presbyterian; no parents unfortunately.
regards Suzy
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I would appreciate how I can obtain information on a marriage of a Alexander Thompson/Thomson and a Sarah Holmes. Both were probably from Scotland and married about 1890 in Cape Town. They had at least 6 children. The dates of birth of three of the children are known.
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Hello Syme,
it apparently was not compulsory to register marriages when overseas, but many were registered.
Findmypast.com provide access to the Overseas bmd's also GRO INDEX ARMY MARRIAGES (and Births and Deaths).
This index will give you Surname, Name, Station, year and Page number.
If you are lucky enough to find your ancestor, you can use this info to order the certificate from GRO.
I also contacted Ellen Stanton who kindly told me what film number to order and bingo found the long lost marriage. [will find her address for you]
I will send this and have a play around to find the address of Ellen and look in the indexes for you on FindMyPast.
Cheers Suzy