RootsChat.Com
Independent Islands => Alderney, Guernsey, Jersey, Sark => Channel Islands Lookup Requests => Topic started by: alimac44 on Sunday 17 August 08 15:52 BST (UK)
-
Does anyone have information on Charles Elias Bree b.1873 in Jersey, d.1905 following an accident on a boat in Penzance. He was my Gt.Grandad, his daughter,my Gran was Theresa May Bree from Penzance. Charles married Christiana Hall. His father was also called Charles who married Mary A ?, he was born around 1849/50. Any info on the Bree's from St.Heliers or Grouville would be great, as I live in Shropshire getting Channel Island Info is difficult
-
Hi,
is this them in the 1861
John E Bree age 33 farmer
Jane age 33
Charles J son age 6
Emma dau' age 12
Louisa " " 11
Emma j " " 8
Jane A 12
John E son 7
Clara L 1
Rose b Valie age 40 servant
RG(/4390/35/8.....I can't read the address..All born Grouville
-
1891 brocket cottages?? Vingtaine de Faldouet.
charles age 42 Ag lab
Mary h age 50
Charles age 18 Ag Lab born St Martin
John age 14 Mariner
Alice age 13
Ann age 16
Fredeick age 11...RG12/4698/102/12..
-
1901. New inn court,Penzance.
Charles E Bree age 28 dock lab' born jersey
christiana age 28
George c age 7
hilda 1
Alfred 6 months all born Penzance...
-
Hi
The 1901 married to Christiana is the one I'm looking into, and it looks like your second message is also my family. I have searched the censuses but wondered if anyone has any other information about them. Thank you for replying so quickly.
-
..
-
Hi Alimac44
I can provide you with index entries to enable you to order certificates from Jersey.
Do you have any already?
Stewart
-
Hello there,
Thank you for replying. The only thing I've been able to obtain is the details off of the census collection, which I can access on the internet.
How are you able to get the index entries? and yes I would like some help to enable me to get certificates. Do you have an up to date address of where to write to to get certificates?
Thank you very much for offering to help
-
Hi
You can see how to order certificates at:
http://genuki.weald.org.uk/CHI/alex/CIResearch.html#faq4
All you need is the index entry which I can get. They aren't on-line but are still in paper format. I live near the archive centre and pass it most days which is why I can do the lookups.
What I would like to do over the next few days is to summarize which ones to initially look for.
Stewart
-
Thank you for your offer of help. The details I need certifictes for are as follows
Birth of Charles Elias Bree born in 1873 or 74 in St. Martins. (he died in Penzance on 18.3.1905 age 31). Looking at his marriage cert he was born 1873. I need his birth cert.
His father was also Charles Bree b. 1850 or maybe 49 in St. Heliers, Jersey, he was 36 on the 1881 census, I need his Birth Cert and also marriage details. I know his wife was Mary A. but I dont have a maiden name all I know she was born in St. Martins. In 1881 she was aged 36. So again Charles mariage details are vital for me to go on. In 1881 he was living in Grouville
Here we get a bit sketchy, I think Charles b.1950 his Father was Elias Bree b.1825 but again no proof I can lay my hands on. Any help there with a birth index no would be so appreciated.
Hope this helps, and once again thank you very much for your very kind offer of help.
-
did you know there was a Free 1841 census on the internet for the Channel Islands,called "Jersey Maid".
Joyce
-
Thank you Joyce I didn't know.
-
1841 channel island census,funny this is just above your rootsweb message,Bree family on the internet.
Joyce
-
Hi Joyce
Not too a productive morning I'm afraid although there could be light at the end of the tunnel.
First the birth of Charles Elias Bree. The index entry is "St Martin's births, 13th Jan 1873 to 29th Jun 1884, page 46". However, see later.
Despite the census saying that Charles Bree was born about 1850 in St Helier, I cannot find a record anywhere despite searching 5 years either side. Neither can I find a marriage for Charles and Mary A. Then to cap it all, I can't see a birth for Elias Bree around 1825. However I can see the birth of an Elie Bree, baptised in St Martin 7th April 1826 to Elie Bree and Esther Falle.
Because I was unsure whether I missed something I went to the Registry Office where you can look at Certificates. Charles Elias Bree was born 2nd Feb 1879 to John Charles Bree, a "Journalier" and Jane Allere. So this makes me ask whether the search for Charles and Elias is relevant? Maybe he dropped the John bit. Maybe I have the wrong Charles Elias Bree????
Finally, two people have lodged Bree family trees at the Societe Jersiaise, one for the family in St Martin and one in Grouville.
Stewart
-
Hi,
I dont know how it works in Jersey,my family on the maternal line go back to 1600,s in Guernsey,but for others searching the channel islands this may help,my ggggrandfather was born in Suffolk,so how come I ended up with family from Guernsey,answer,he was in the army and stationed at Fort George Guernsey,some of the children were born in suffolk,someone from the Priaux library was brilliant,(Margaret) she found my GGgrandmothers registration,under Mayo instead of Mays,they were really helpful.
Joyce
-
Further update!!
I have searched the index for another Charles Elias Bree and found a Charles Elie Bree in St Martins Births, 30th June 1866 to 23rd Jan 1873 on page 64. I'll go to the Registry Office in the next few days and see who is parents were and hopefully....
Now here's something new...
I was checking the "Secours Extraordinaires aux Pauvres de la Paroisse de St Helier", now known as Parish Relief for St Helier. Low and behold I found an entry for 1885 for:
Paul Charles Bree aged 35
Mary A Bree aged 43
Charles Bree aged 13
Ann Bree aged 11
John Bree aged 10
Alice Bree aged 8
Alfred Bree aged 6
The payment was for Extraordinary Help - Winter Extra Relief. They received (I'll let you do the translations!):
Payment 7/-
Calico Veges 9
Connade Veges 5
Flannelle Veges 8
Molleton Veges 7
Linsey Robes Veges 16
Union Linsey Veges 5
Fustiam Veges 3
Fil de Laine 1
Indienne 4
Bottles 1
They were living at the time in Gorey, Le Valles, pro Le Havre, St Helier.
So I need to check the birth to see if this is the correct one and then if it is, find a marriage for a Paul Bree rather than a Charles Bree.
Stewart
-
Hi Stewart
Thank you so much for your help, I think you have hit the jackpot, Paul Charles Bree and the details you have given fit what I have under "Charles" Bree, the children you have listed fit what I have but haven't proven, wow what a find.
If this helps at all I have double checked my Gt.Grandad's marriage and Death certs, this is the Charles Bree b. 1873 or 1874. - He married July 10th 1898 in penzance aged 25. He died 18 March 1905 age 31. So if his birthday was between 18 March & 10th July, he would have been born in 1874 (if my maths is correct!).
The two people who have lodged Bree family trees at the Societe Jersiaise, are you able to get access to what they have submitted or can I write for access somewhere. I think my Bree's cover both St.Martin and Grouville. I think they started in St.Martin and moved to Grouville whilst still having children.
By the way not sure how I have come to let you think I am called joyce, my name is Alison, sorry about that, and thank you so very much, there's no way I could of done any of this without actually coming to Jersey, and I'm afraid that isn't on the cards. I get to Penzance record office now and again, but thats 5hrs away.
Thank you
Alison
-
hi Alison
Sorry about the name mix up. I just picked it up from a previous posting but now realise it was someone else.
Yes, it was a great find (modesty!) and a pure fluke. I will get to see the birth certificate shortly and then that should lead us to the parents marriage - I hope.
I'm afraid you can only view the lodged trees, although there is nothing to stop me taking a drawn copy. I'll see what I can do if it proves to be relevant.
Stewart
-
Hi Alison
As a backup I have found the births for Alice, Ann and Charles, then I can ensure that the parents match and that I have the right Charles.
Alice Eliza Bree was baptised 30th August 1877. Parents were Paul Desire Charles Bree and Mary Ann Bree. He was a Journalier and they live in the Vingtieme of La Rue (which is where I live!!), in the Parish of Grouville.
(Ref: Grouville Births, 22nd Feb 1871 - 29th Nov 1879, page 45).
Ann Esther Bree was baptised 20th March 1874, same parents and occupation, but this time living in the Vingtieme de Marais in Grouville.
(Ref: Grouville Births, 22nd Feb 1871 - 29th Nov 1879, page 22).
Charles Elie Bree was baptised 23rd January 1873 in St Martin. Parents were given as Charles Bree and Mary Ann Bree. Again Charles Snr was a Journalier.
(Ref: St Martin Births, 30th Jun 1866 - 23rd Jan 1873, page 64).
So I think we have established Charles's parents and birth. Now I need to find a marriage for Paul/Charles and Mary Ann.
Stewart
-
Stewart
That is wonderful thank you so much, you are enabling me to dot the i's and cross the t's so to speak. I have struggled with this side of my family tree for years as i've had no way of proving anything or getting any references to go by. The references you gave me are I take it what I need to get certificates of their births if i want to in the future, is that right? You're a star I do appreciate it.
Alison
-
Yes, you are correct.
See http://genuki.weald.org.uk/CHI/alex/CIResearch.html#faq4 for details on how to order.
Stewart
-
Thanks. I've had another look on the 1881 census, Charles snr is down as an agr. Labourer, but all the dates etc fit to what you've found out. So its the right family.
So why would he be down as an ag. Lab and you've found him as a Journalier? More's the point what is a journalier? when I put it in on google it just says daily...daily what, is it a journalist?
Would he of had 2 jobs or perhaps he changed job. In 1881 they lived still in District of de marais at no 5 Beequets Cottages, Grouville.
You know you said you live at the same place as the Bree's did in 1877, where on the map is that I've had a look today but couldn't find it. I found Grouville, but not the exact place you mentioned.
Sorry for all the questions.
Alison
-
Hi Alison
Don't worry about the questions.
A Journalier as far as I know is a person without a fixed job, one that goes on a journey from job to job. Remember they are using Jersey French rather than French French!
I think you'll find its Becquets Cottages (pronounced Beck-kay), in Grouville. A Vintaigne is a collection of roughly 50 houses, and because it's an old fashioned term, you won't find it on a modern map.
Marais means marsh and Rue means road. If you're looking on a map, look for Hougue Bie as that's in La Rue. Have a look at
http://members.societe-jersiaise.org/sdllj/
It's not complete but has some useful word in it.
If you have Google Earth, La Hougue Bie is:
49 12 1 60 N
2 3 49 49 W
I live at:
49 11 56 38N
2 3 28 10W
La Marais is around:
49 11 28 40N
2 2 25 27W
To the north is a reservoir called Queens Valley
If you can see it, you will see that it's pretty rural!
Stewart
-
Hi Alsion
I'm sorry to report that I think I've come to a dead end. I cannot find a birth for Charles/Paul Bree in St Helier, St Martin or Grouville around 1850. Neither can I find a marriage for him to a Mary A. Currently I've run out of ideas.
Stewart
-
Hi, I came across your correspondence when I was looking for information for someone else researching Paul Desire Charles BREE.
Would love to get you both in touch.
I believe that Paul BREE (aka Charles BREE) was born to Aimee SERSON and married at least twice.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
:D
-
Oops - Aimee married at least twice!
:(
-
A journalier is a day (jour) worker..casually employed by the day..mainly for manual labour..in most cases in the growing industry in the fields .
-
alimac44, If your still looking for details on the Bree family please get in touch, my gran was Sarah (Sally), I spent a school summer holiday with gran at Bill and Theresa's house in Sussex in 1969, I remember the chicken shed at the end of the garden, my mum Cecile has just died, (daughter to Sarah) before finding some old papers we never knew about these people.