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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Shropshire => Topic started by: Fisherman on Tuesday 02 September 08 22:04 BST (UK)

Title: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Tuesday 02 September 08 22:04 BST (UK)
In 1871 one of my ancestors gives her pob as Albertburgh.
Does this place exist?  I have searched and can't find it.

Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: ricky1 on Tuesday 02 September 08 22:07 BST (UK)
Hi Chris

I wonder if they meant ALBERBURY ??? ???

ricky
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 02 September 08 22:08 BST (UK)
Hi Chris  :)

Never heard of that one and I lived next door!

Could it be Alberbury

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SAL/Alberbury/index.html


Gadget

Hi Ricky - see you got in while I was waiting for the slowwwwwwwwwww
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: ricky1 on Tuesday 02 September 08 22:11 BST (UK)
Hi Gadget

It is slow on here again, was the only place I could think of

ricky
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 02 September 08 22:13 BST (UK)
there's also Albrighton but i think it's most likely Alberbury.

Would like to know from Chris what the ref is and we could go poking around trying to find another census or birth for her  :)


Gadget
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Tuesday 02 September 08 22:18 BST (UK)
Hi Ricky & Gadget,

Alberbury sound a good bet.
This woman is driving me mad in 1901 she thinks she was born in Welshpool   ::) ;D

Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Tuesday 02 September 08 22:21 BST (UK)
Hi Gadget

1871 ref  RG10/4698/28/49 
4 Warden St., Attercliffe, Sheffield

Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 02 September 08 22:25 BST (UK)
Will have a look , Chris,

Going to inspect the census stuff now


Gadget
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 02 September 08 22:32 BST (UK)
I'm being told by the powers of the census that piece 4698 doesn't exist - can you check it, please, or give us the name, etc.

Gadget

added - something funny - it's now being OK  ::)
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: ricky1 on Tuesday 02 September 08 22:39 BST (UK)
Hi Chris
1891 census
Have you got them on any other census, as theres a Enoch Sockett says born Warwickshire with wife Elizabeth born Warwickshire, living in the same place as the 1901 census ??? ???

ricky

Rg12/ 3837
folio 10
page 13
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 02 September 08 22:42 BST (UK)
I've been having the same problem, Ricky, and I can't find a marriage  :-\
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: ricky1 on Tuesday 02 September 08 22:45 BST (UK)
1891

says living Southern Street, Attercliffe cum Darnall, and 1901 says same street ??? ???

ricky
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Tuesday 02 September 08 22:55 BST (UK)
Marriage

Sheffield 1882 9c 496.

I knowthis is 11 years after they said they were married on 1871 but is the only Enoch/Elizabeth marriage I can find.

Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: ricky1 on Tuesday 02 September 08 22:57 BST (UK)
I was just going to say the same Chris, was the only one I could see

ricky
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 02 September 08 23:00 BST (UK)
Yep - saw that about 1/2 hour ago and discounted it  :-\

Chris - their ages and places of birth  just don't add up and I can't find them on the 1881  :(
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: ricky1 on Tuesday 02 September 08 23:05 BST (UK)
Hi Gadget

I tend to agree, and as for the 1881, closest I can see is this one where her husbands name is John

Rg11/ 4665
folio 23
page 39

roughly the same area as the 1891 and 1901 census ??? ??? ???

ricky
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 02 September 08 23:15 BST (UK)
They all look plausible - do you think they just put down whatever they felt like to confuse the enumerator  ::)

A move from Wellington (which was the centre of the iron industry in Shropshire) to Sheffield would be plausible.


Gadget
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Tuesday 02 September 08 23:16 BST (UK)
Hi Gadget & Ricky,

There are 8 Enochs in the family, as follows

1795-1797
1802-?
1843-1912
1869-1889
1870-1889
1875-1951
1879-1882
1907-1909

He is the only one that fits the time scale

A very confused
Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 02 September 08 23:30 BST (UK)
Just to add that there are quite a few John Socketts marrying in Wellington - 1839, 1840, 1849, 1900. Also in Shiffnal in 1856.

Just wondering if it was a family of them that moved to Sheffield and they played musical chairs  :-\


Gadget
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 02 September 08 23:54 BST (UK)
Hi Gadget & Ricky,
There are 8 Enochs in the family, as follows

1795-1797
1802-?
1843-1912
1869-1889
1870-1889
1875-1951
1879-1882
1907-1909

He is the only one that fits the time scale

A very confused
Chris


Just summarising:

Death- Enoch Sockett, Dec q, 1912, Sheffield vol 9c page 647. Aged 68 


Birth-  Enoch Sockett Dec q, 1843, Wellington vol 18 Page 187

Therefore :

1851 - 7
1861 -17
1871 - 27
1881 - 37
1891 - 47
1901- 57
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Tuesday 02 September 08 23:59 BST (UK)
Gadget,
Unfortunately my family had little imagination during the 1800's when it came to naming children  ::)

This Enoch has been causing headaches for along time,  and then in 1901 Willie Parker joins them as adopted son - where the heck did he come from?  His descendants have been in touch to try to unravel the mystery of his roots.

Excuse me while I go and scream.
And to top it all my connection has slowed to a crawl.

Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 03 September 08 00:17 BST (UK)
I think Ricky and I might have to go into private session about this one, Chris  ;)

It seems very odd but my eyes are getting sore with looking at census pages so I'll have another look tomorrow .


Have you got a poss for him on the 1851 and 1861?  If so would be pleased with a ref  to save my eyes  :)


Gadget
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Wednesday 03 September 08 00:19 BST (UK)
Gadget,
Everything checks out except for the entry in 1891 where his age is down as 53 and Elizabeth is 55.
Are they a different couple? If they are I can't find any other record of them!

I think I'm going to have to call time on this one tonight my connection is so slow I'm running 20 mins behind the rest of the UK  ;D

Thanks to you and Ricky for your input
Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Wednesday 03 September 08 00:32 BST (UK)
Gadget,

1851 HO107/1997/422/19 with grandparents

Haven't got him on 61

Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 03 September 08 00:37 BST (UK)
Ok Chris -  will have a good look at it tomorrow  :)

What about Elizabeth? - Alberbury is only about 15 km from Welshpool. 

Did you get the 1882 marriage cert?

G'night  :)


Gadget
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 03 September 08 00:51 BST (UK)
Chris

The Montgomeryshire/Shropshire border is pretty close to Alberbury - Severn is the boundary:

Click Here (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=335884&y=314578&z=3&sv=335884,314578&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&ax=335884&ay=314578)

I've not checked the Reg Districts but it might well have been in the same one as Welshpool - especially since she could have been born on our side of the Severn  :)


Gadget
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Wednesday 03 September 08 23:05 BST (UK)
Hi Gadget,

The marriage cert is on order.

Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 03 September 08 23:09 BST (UK)
There are a few Elizabeth Evans birth registrations around that time. it's not an easy one as you can imagine  ::)

I also found a poss for her on the 1851 census in Westbury, Shropshire - Westbury, Alberbury and Welshpool seem to form a little triangle.

Will be interested to find what's on the cert  :)

Your Enoch checks out except for the 1881 and 1891 - I think they were telling porkies  ::)


Gadget
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Wednesday 03 September 08 23:23 BST (UK)
I'll have a look at the 1851 entry now.
I have been going great because of the uncommon surnames but finding an Evans has brought me to a shuddering halt - and I haven't stated on the Jones line yet!!

Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: ricky1 on Wednesday 03 September 08 23:44 BST (UK)
Hi Chris

and I thought Margarets was bad enough ;D ;D ;D ;D

ricky
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Wednesday 03 September 08 23:59 BST (UK)
Ricky,
When I start my Jones lot you'll all be ducking for cover  ;D ;D ;D

Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 04 September 08 00:00 BST (UK)
I was going to suggest that we invite Margaret  ;D

Chris - I didn't have any Jones lines until i got to grt grandparents  -and then they grew into at least 8 separate lines  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Thursday 04 September 08 00:08 BST (UK)
Gadget,

I think the 1851 entry for Elizabeth b Alberbury looks a strong possibility.

My Jones lines are from Pembs. Carms. Brecs. Mon. Salop. and Mont. but at least most of the southerners are in easy reach of me.  :D

Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 04 September 08 00:12 BST (UK)
I've got some from Montgomeryshire (Evan Jones the blacksmith) and Shropshire (lots - mostly John Jones)  - maybe we are distant cousins - I don't think  ;D ;D ;D

Glad about the 1851  :D
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: ricky1 on Thursday 04 September 08 00:13 BST (UK)
Ricky,
When I start my Jones lot you'll all be ducking for cover   ;D ;D ;D

Chris

Chris

You dont know how true that is ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Tuesday 09 September 08 16:32 BST (UK)
Just thought I'd let you know that I am still waiting for the marriage cert. to arrive.
Seems to be taking ages!

Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: ricky1 on Tuesday 09 September 08 16:35 BST (UK)
Just thought I'd let you know that I am still waiting for the marriage cert. to arrive.
Seems to be taking ages!

Chris

Hi Chris

No prob, we will still be around ;D ;D
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 09 September 08 16:39 BST (UK)
Just thought I'd let you know that I am still waiting for the marriage cert. to arrive.
Seems to be taking ages!

Chris

Hi Chris

No prob, we will still be around ;D ;D

Not sure about that, Ricky. It's all getting toooooooooo much sometimes  :(
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Friday 12 September 08 17:03 BST (UK)
Hi Gadget & Ricky,

 Cert arrived today  :D
Guess what wrong Enoch  :'(   Well not the one I thought it was.
This one is the son of Enoch not Richard & Harriet

Were there two Enoch's in Sheffield at this time  ???
I am going to have to take time out and look at this again.

Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Friday 12 September 08 17:13 BST (UK)
Hi Chris

I think there were other Enochs but it seems a while ago now since we looked  :-\ 

I remember us wondering why they were on the 1871 as married but the only marriage that you could find was in 1882  :-\

What other info was on the cert - ages, occupations , etc.

Maybe they just didn't marry  :-\


Gadget
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Friday 12 September 08 17:31 BST (UK)
Hi Gadget,

Enoch, 36, Bachelor, Puddler, Bailey St., Enoch Sockett Deceased, Engineer
Elizabeth, 34, Spinster, -, Bailey St., David Evans, Labourer


Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Friday 12 September 08 17:53 BST (UK)
Hi Gadget,

Solved that little query.
Enoch was illegitimate and has given his grandfathers details on the cert.  Richard was his step-father.

How did I miss that  ???

Chris

Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Friday 12 September 08 17:54 BST (UK)
Hi Chris

From the 1851 his Grandfather was Enoch, an engineer. He was 7 at the time. Maybe he was brought up by them from a very early age (do you know what happened to his parents?) and he thought that they were his parents. It can happen.


Gadget

Hi Chris - I had to go back and check the census - what's your excuse  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Friday 12 September 08 17:57 BST (UK)
So we're now looking for an Elizabeth Evans with a  father,  David.

Have you still got the ref to the 1851/61 that looked a poss?


Gadget
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Friday 12 September 08 18:02 BST (UK)
HO107/1991/125/7

Elizabeth on that one aged 11 and father is Cornerlus Evans Farm Lab

Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Friday 12 September 08 18:10 BST (UK)
Hi Chris - I had to go back and check the census - what's your excuse ;D ;D ;D

I've had a hard day - and was blinded by excitement when the cert arrived.  ;D ;D

Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Friday 12 September 08 18:12 BST (UK)
HO107/1991/125/7

Elizabeth on that one aged 11 and father is Cornerlus Evans Farm Lab

Chris

That's out then  :( 


It's Friday so it can only get better  :D

Gadget
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Friday 12 September 08 18:30 BST (UK)
Hi Chris

From the 1851 his Grandfather was Enoch, an engineer. He was 7 at the time. Maybe he was brought up by them from a very early age (do you know what happened to his parents?) and he thought that they were his parents. It can happen.


Gadget


Harriet married Richard Hall in 1852.  Enoch was with them in 1861.

Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Friday 12 September 08 18:41 BST (UK)
But he  wasn't his father so for propriety or whatever, he used his Grandfather's name. My Grandfather's sister did that. My grandfather used his own!

Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Friday 12 September 08 18:52 BST (UK)
Enoch's father remains a mystery.

Can't find Elizabeth with father David on 1851  ???

Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Friday 12 September 08 19:52 BST (UK)
I'll have a look while you're in Neath, Chris and, hopefully, Ricky might join me    :)
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Friday 12 September 08 21:25 BST (UK)
Hi Chris

this is about the only one on the 1851 that would fit. the only problem is the place of birth - Clun is further south than either Alberbury or Welshpool  :-\

Three Gates, Whitcott Keysett, Shrops
HO107/1983 F 85 P 13

David Evans, 40, ag lab, b. Montgomeryshire Berriew
Mary, 37, b. Radnor Llangunllo (? Llangynllo)
William, 12
John, 7
Elizabeth, 6
Thomas, 3
Caroline, 1
Charlotte, Williams, visitor, 18

All except stated b. Clun
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Saturday 13 September 08 16:07 BST (UK)
Hi Gadget,

I've been having a good look at this most of the afternoon and I agree that it's the best fit.
I'll see if I can find this family in 61. Hopefuly they've shifted north and that's where she got Alberbury from.

Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Sunday 14 September 08 11:23 BST (UK)
Found the family in 61 still in the Clun area but without Elizabeth.
If this is the right Elizabeth she is certaianly making things difficult.
On with the search

Chris
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 14 September 08 11:25 BST (UK)
Bells ringing, Chris.  I came across an Elizabeth Evans on the 1861, domestic servant, aged 18, down as  b. Alberbury. I sent the ref to Ricky to see what he thought. Will go find it and add it to this message  :)

Here it is:

RG9/1865 Folio 69 Page 1
Title: Re: Albertburgh ?? Salop.
Post by: Fisherman on Sunday 14 September 08 11:46 BST (UK)
Hi Gadget,

Thanks for that.  Looks a good possibility.  At least it places that Elizabeth in the Alberbury area.

Chris