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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Shropshire => Topic started by: Fisherman on Tuesday 02 September 08 22:04 BST (UK)
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In 1871 one of my ancestors gives her pob as Albertburgh.
Does this place exist? I have searched and can't find it.
Chris
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Hi Chris
I wonder if they meant ALBERBURY ??? ???
ricky
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Hi Chris :)
Never heard of that one and I lived next door!
Could it be Alberbury
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SAL/Alberbury/index.html
Gadget
Hi Ricky - see you got in while I was waiting for the slowwwwwwwwwww
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Hi Gadget
It is slow on here again, was the only place I could think of
ricky
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there's also Albrighton but i think it's most likely Alberbury.
Would like to know from Chris what the ref is and we could go poking around trying to find another census or birth for her :)
Gadget
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Hi Ricky & Gadget,
Alberbury sound a good bet.
This woman is driving me mad in 1901 she thinks she was born in Welshpool ::) ;D
Chris
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Hi Gadget
1871 ref RG10/4698/28/49
4 Warden St., Attercliffe, Sheffield
Chris
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Will have a look , Chris,
Going to inspect the census stuff now
Gadget
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I'm being told by the powers of the census that piece 4698 doesn't exist - can you check it, please, or give us the name, etc.
Gadget
added - something funny - it's now being OK ::)
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Hi Chris
1891 census
Have you got them on any other census, as theres a Enoch Sockett says born Warwickshire with wife Elizabeth born Warwickshire, living in the same place as the 1901 census ??? ???
ricky
Rg12/ 3837
folio 10
page 13
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I've been having the same problem, Ricky, and I can't find a marriage :-\
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1891
says living Southern Street, Attercliffe cum Darnall, and 1901 says same street ??? ???
ricky
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Marriage
Sheffield 1882 9c 496.
I knowthis is 11 years after they said they were married on 1871 but is the only Enoch/Elizabeth marriage I can find.
Chris
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I was just going to say the same Chris, was the only one I could see
ricky
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Yep - saw that about 1/2 hour ago and discounted it :-\
Chris - their ages and places of birth just don't add up and I can't find them on the 1881 :(
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Hi Gadget
I tend to agree, and as for the 1881, closest I can see is this one where her husbands name is John
Rg11/ 4665
folio 23
page 39
roughly the same area as the 1891 and 1901 census ??? ??? ???
ricky
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They all look plausible - do you think they just put down whatever they felt like to confuse the enumerator ::)
A move from Wellington (which was the centre of the iron industry in Shropshire) to Sheffield would be plausible.
Gadget
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Hi Gadget & Ricky,
There are 8 Enochs in the family, as follows
1795-1797
1802-?
1843-1912
1869-1889
1870-1889
1875-1951
1879-1882
1907-1909
He is the only one that fits the time scale
A very confused
Chris
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Just to add that there are quite a few John Socketts marrying in Wellington - 1839, 1840, 1849, 1900. Also in Shiffnal in 1856.
Just wondering if it was a family of them that moved to Sheffield and they played musical chairs :-\
Gadget
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Hi Gadget & Ricky,
There are 8 Enochs in the family, as follows
1795-1797
1802-?
1843-1912
1869-1889
1870-1889
1875-1951
1879-1882
1907-1909
He is the only one that fits the time scale
A very confused
Chris
Just summarising:
Death- Enoch Sockett, Dec q, 1912, Sheffield vol 9c page 647. Aged 68
Birth- Enoch Sockett Dec q, 1843, Wellington vol 18 Page 187
Therefore :
1851 - 7
1861 -17
1871 - 27
1881 - 37
1891 - 47
1901- 57
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Gadget,
Unfortunately my family had little imagination during the 1800's when it came to naming children ::)
This Enoch has been causing headaches for along time, and then in 1901 Willie Parker joins them as adopted son - where the heck did he come from? His descendants have been in touch to try to unravel the mystery of his roots.
Excuse me while I go and scream.
And to top it all my connection has slowed to a crawl.
Chris
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I think Ricky and I might have to go into private session about this one, Chris ;)
It seems very odd but my eyes are getting sore with looking at census pages so I'll have another look tomorrow .
Have you got a poss for him on the 1851 and 1861? If so would be pleased with a ref to save my eyes :)
Gadget
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Gadget,
Everything checks out except for the entry in 1891 where his age is down as 53 and Elizabeth is 55.
Are they a different couple? If they are I can't find any other record of them!
I think I'm going to have to call time on this one tonight my connection is so slow I'm running 20 mins behind the rest of the UK ;D
Thanks to you and Ricky for your input
Chris
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Gadget,
1851 HO107/1997/422/19 with grandparents
Haven't got him on 61
Chris
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Ok Chris - will have a good look at it tomorrow :)
What about Elizabeth? - Alberbury is only about 15 km from Welshpool.
Did you get the 1882 marriage cert?
G'night :)
Gadget
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Chris
The Montgomeryshire/Shropshire border is pretty close to Alberbury - Severn is the boundary:
Click Here (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=335884&y=314578&z=3&sv=335884,314578&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&ax=335884&ay=314578)
I've not checked the Reg Districts but it might well have been in the same one as Welshpool - especially since she could have been born on our side of the Severn :)
Gadget
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Hi Gadget,
The marriage cert is on order.
Chris
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There are a few Elizabeth Evans birth registrations around that time. it's not an easy one as you can imagine ::)
I also found a poss for her on the 1851 census in Westbury, Shropshire - Westbury, Alberbury and Welshpool seem to form a little triangle.
Will be interested to find what's on the cert :)
Your Enoch checks out except for the 1881 and 1891 - I think they were telling porkies ::)
Gadget
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I'll have a look at the 1851 entry now.
I have been going great because of the uncommon surnames but finding an Evans has brought me to a shuddering halt - and I haven't stated on the Jones line yet!!
Chris
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Hi Chris
and I thought Margarets was bad enough ;D ;D ;D ;D
ricky
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Ricky,
When I start my Jones lot you'll all be ducking for cover ;D ;D ;D
Chris
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I was going to suggest that we invite Margaret ;D
Chris - I didn't have any Jones lines until i got to grt grandparents -and then they grew into at least 8 separate lines ::) ::) ::)
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Gadget,
I think the 1851 entry for Elizabeth b Alberbury looks a strong possibility.
My Jones lines are from Pembs. Carms. Brecs. Mon. Salop. and Mont. but at least most of the southerners are in easy reach of me. :D
Chris
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I've got some from Montgomeryshire (Evan Jones the blacksmith) and Shropshire (lots - mostly John Jones) - maybe we are distant cousins - I don't think ;D ;D ;D
Glad about the 1851 :D
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Ricky,
When I start my Jones lot you'll all be ducking for cover ;D ;D ;D
Chris
Chris
You dont know how true that is ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Just thought I'd let you know that I am still waiting for the marriage cert. to arrive.
Seems to be taking ages!
Chris
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Just thought I'd let you know that I am still waiting for the marriage cert. to arrive.
Seems to be taking ages!
Chris
Hi Chris
No prob, we will still be around ;D ;D
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Just thought I'd let you know that I am still waiting for the marriage cert. to arrive.
Seems to be taking ages!
Chris
Hi Chris
No prob, we will still be around ;D ;D
Not sure about that, Ricky. It's all getting toooooooooo much sometimes :(
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Hi Gadget & Ricky,
Cert arrived today :D
Guess what wrong Enoch :'( Well not the one I thought it was.
This one is the son of Enoch not Richard & Harriet
Were there two Enoch's in Sheffield at this time ???
I am going to have to take time out and look at this again.
Chris
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Hi Chris
I think there were other Enochs but it seems a while ago now since we looked :-\
I remember us wondering why they were on the 1871 as married but the only marriage that you could find was in 1882 :-\
What other info was on the cert - ages, occupations , etc.
Maybe they just didn't marry :-\
Gadget
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Hi Gadget,
Enoch, 36, Bachelor, Puddler, Bailey St., Enoch Sockett Deceased, Engineer
Elizabeth, 34, Spinster, -, Bailey St., David Evans, Labourer
Chris
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Hi Gadget,
Solved that little query.
Enoch was illegitimate and has given his grandfathers details on the cert. Richard was his step-father.
How did I miss that ???
Chris
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Hi Chris
From the 1851 his Grandfather was Enoch, an engineer. He was 7 at the time. Maybe he was brought up by them from a very early age (do you know what happened to his parents?) and he thought that they were his parents. It can happen.
Gadget
Hi Chris - I had to go back and check the census - what's your excuse ;D ;D ;D
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So we're now looking for an Elizabeth Evans with a father, David.
Have you still got the ref to the 1851/61 that looked a poss?
Gadget
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HO107/1991/125/7
Elizabeth on that one aged 11 and father is Cornerlus Evans Farm Lab
Chris
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Hi Chris - I had to go back and check the census - what's your excuse ;D ;D ;D
I've had a hard day - and was blinded by excitement when the cert arrived. ;D ;D
Chris
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HO107/1991/125/7
Elizabeth on that one aged 11 and father is Cornerlus Evans Farm Lab
Chris
That's out then :(
It's Friday so it can only get better :D
Gadget
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Hi Chris
From the 1851 his Grandfather was Enoch, an engineer. He was 7 at the time. Maybe he was brought up by them from a very early age (do you know what happened to his parents?) and he thought that they were his parents. It can happen.
Gadget
Harriet married Richard Hall in 1852. Enoch was with them in 1861.
Chris
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But he wasn't his father so for propriety or whatever, he used his Grandfather's name. My Grandfather's sister did that. My grandfather used his own!
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Enoch's father remains a mystery.
Can't find Elizabeth with father David on 1851 ???
Chris
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I'll have a look while you're in Neath, Chris and, hopefully, Ricky might join me :)
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Hi Chris
this is about the only one on the 1851 that would fit. the only problem is the place of birth - Clun is further south than either Alberbury or Welshpool :-\
Three Gates, Whitcott Keysett, Shrops
HO107/1983 F 85 P 13
David Evans, 40, ag lab, b. Montgomeryshire Berriew
Mary, 37, b. Radnor Llangunllo (? Llangynllo)
William, 12
John, 7
Elizabeth, 6
Thomas, 3
Caroline, 1
Charlotte, Williams, visitor, 18
All except stated b. Clun
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Hi Gadget,
I've been having a good look at this most of the afternoon and I agree that it's the best fit.
I'll see if I can find this family in 61. Hopefuly they've shifted north and that's where she got Alberbury from.
Chris
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Found the family in 61 still in the Clun area but without Elizabeth.
If this is the right Elizabeth she is certaianly making things difficult.
On with the search
Chris
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Bells ringing, Chris. I came across an Elizabeth Evans on the 1861, domestic servant, aged 18, down as b. Alberbury. I sent the ref to Ricky to see what he thought. Will go find it and add it to this message :)
Here it is:
RG9/1865 Folio 69 Page 1
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Hi Gadget,
Thanks for that. Looks a good possibility. At least it places that Elizabeth in the Alberbury area.
Chris