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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: DaveDave on Saturday 31 January 09 13:47 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I hope someone on this forum can help us – or at least point us in the right direction so we can find the info.
We're looking for personnel records on an ancestor, Sgt Samuel Player, who served with the Fife Fencibles. This is the only information we can find so far…
When Samuel married Margaret Williamson in 1795 in Cupar, he was recorded as being a soldier in Durham’s Regiment. 18th century regiments were sometimes formed by wealthy individuals, who then named the regiment after themselves. Samuel enlisted with Durham's Regiment (not the Durham Regiment) Durham being General James Durham of Largo (Fife).
It is thought Durham's Fencibles (Fifeshire Fencible Infantry) was raised in 1795 as this appears to be the earliest attestation date.
Muster 31st May 1795 taken to Londonderry 1796.
Samuel promoted to Corporal August 1796
Samuel promoted to Sergeant September 1796
1st October 1797 - 31st March 1798 at Strabane
From April 1798 - April 1799 sworn at Strabane until May 1799 when men divided into companies and musters every month.
Sergeant Player in Colonel's Company. (James Durham)
May - December 1799 sworn at Londonderry in June.
(Sergeant S. Player sick August 1799) transferred to Lt/Col Thomas Durham's Company Sept. 1799
January 1800 - December 1800 Londonderry
January 1801 - December 1801 Kilcullen - 1802 in Naas - Dublin in May 1803 - Kilkenny 1803
Sgt. Player Lt/Col Company on furlow January 1803.
Company (Disembodied) 1803.
Samuel returned to Scotland 1804.
Who would hold the personnel records for Sgt Samuel Player? National Archives has nothing on him.
And, who now hold the records of the Fife Fencibles, especially the Description Book with every soldier’s details?
Hope you can help and very much look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
Dave Player
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on this site:
http://county.durham.gov.uk/sites/dli/Pages/RegimentalandBattalionHistories.aspx
is the following listed:
Vane W L. 'The Durham Fencibles'. nd (1912). Only 100 copies privately printed.
Diddy
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Hi Diddy
Many thanks for the link but this appears to be the Fencible regiment from the county of Durham, not the Fencibles set up by General James Durham of Largo, known as the Fife Fencibles as well as Durham's Fencibles.
Reading thru' the many posts on this web site, you appear to be one of the local experts, so I was hoping that you might have some info on this little known Fife regiment.
It seems that every regiment had a book with all the soldiers details called the Description Book - this'll hold the details on our anscestor, Sgt Samuel Player. I'd like to find out where this book is now, and also what the regimental badge and uniform looked like.
Any ideas?
Dave
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Fencibles as I'm sure you have found out were a type of local Militia.
Some counties and towns have produced local lists and histories as the previous poster has noted for Durham. (I know there are some for Buckinghamshire!)
It may be worth speaking to the Fife local history or library service to see if something similar has been done up there.
Regts of the time were normally named after the chap who raised them, or the chap commanding them at the time, ergo your Durham bit....
I'd be very surprised if much has survived, but perhaps the museum service for the Fife and Forfar (Scottish Horse) Yeomanry may be able to point you in the right direction!
http://www.armymuseums.org.uk/museums/0000000033-Fife-and-Forfar-Yeomanry-Collection.htm
;D ;D
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Thanks for the info and link. I've sent an email to them and hope they'll have some info.
Here's some other links that you might also find of interest...
Definition of word "Fencibles" with interesting links...
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Fencibles
Baptims and Births in Hythe, Kent, showing about a dozen of them that enlisted in the Fifeshire Fencibles. Amazing how they came from so far - must've paid well!
http://www.btinternet.com/~goldingfamily/BaptismsMilitary.html
About 2/3’s down the link below, there’s a short insert on the Fife Fencibles – it seems that their main duties were in the Irish Rebellion.
http://www.scottishmilitaryarticles.org.uk/smhsarticle_Fencibles_1793.htm
Here’s lots of info and links re the Irish Rebellion – links to each battle too…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Rebellion_of_1798
Loyal Tay Fencibles
http://www.fifefhs.org/Records/loyaltay.htm
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Dave, sorry could not be more help.
actually although i post a lot on the Fife board (ancesters aplenty) i live in the midlands!! however as a former information librarian I can usually find something!
One place i did wonder about was the great War forum - yes I know dates are later BUT on that chat forum are all the military experts>
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php
free to register. might be worth putting on a question or two..
Diddy
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Dave, sorry could not be more help.
actually although i post a lot on the Fife board (ancesters aplenty) i live in the midlands!! however as a former information librarian I can usually find something!
One place i did wonder about was the great War forum - yes I know dates are later BUT on that chat forum are all the military experts>
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php
free to register. might be worth putting on a question or two..
Diddy
And an awful lot of the WW1 lot hang around on RC ;) ;D
Along with those who hang around on the WW1 and are RC'ers!!
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scrimnet - was not suggesting for one moment that we at RC could not come up with the goods!!
Diddy :o
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scrimnet - was not suggesting for one moment that we at RC could not come up with the goods!!
Diddy :o
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Invariably I have seen RC'ers come up with an awful lot more than a number of well known fora (no names, no pack drill ;) :P), and have succeeded where others have failed... ;D
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I found some more interesting little snit-bits... Does anyone have any idea what the uniform looked like or the regimental cap badge?
Any one have any info, links etc to contribute?
Pages 397 and 399 mention the Fife Fencibles…
http://books.google.com/books?id=r32yANzckOMC&pg=PA397&lpg=PA397&dq=%22fife+fencibles%22&source=bl&ots=y0ykvQG6rn&sig=HzAQVViKGNM0hFSRejwHnop-OTQ&hl=en&ei=dw2QScPeOZiq-gaJprWPCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPA397,M1
Life of Captain Matthew Flinders, page 177 by Ernest Scott
http://manybooks.net/pages/scotternetext05flind10/177.html
Page 282
http://books.google.com/books?id=xcQTAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA282&lpg=RA2-PA282&dq=%22fife+fencibles%22&source=bl&ots=VY6pmQyTOs&sig=y_mX3QWiJWhR0YAC4GR16-T3580&hl=en&ei=kBKQSfCGDNWV-gbY6smrCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#PRA2-PA283,M1
REBELLION, INVASION AND OCCUPATION:
A MILITARY HISTORY OF IRELAND, 1793-1815
Could one of the uniforms on page 3 by that of the Fife Fencibles?!
Fife Fencibles mention in pages 59, 109 (2 Fife Fencibles executed),
http://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/bitstream/10092/1042/1/thesis_fulltext.pdf
Page 18 and 19
http://books.google.com/books?id=o3qcmGbLHGQC&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=%22fife+fencibles%22&source=bl&ots=EmAdy7PlvP&sig=m-wKMzDMfaF8-TTbtfziZ3n8lz0&hl=en&ei=dReQSdb4FMaO-gb6x4ijCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA19,M1
Fife Fencibles Unit Strength = 500
http://books.google.com/books?id=IjQ9Plqyd8AC&pg=PA166&lpg=PA166&dq=%22fife+fencibles%22&source=bl&ots=HRlS3JLs0N&sig=ZQYh84cSAbdfmBxoD6aAHwEOjN4&hl=en&ei=dReQSdb4FMaO-gb6x4ijCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPA166,M1
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I found some more interesting little snit-bits... Does anyone have any idea what the uniform looked like or the regimental cap badge?
.....much snipped........
There's a chance that an issue of the journal of the now defunct journal of the SMHS (Scots Military History Society) would have an illustration, each issue had at least one such, so it be necessary to locate a person or a library with a full run.
James McKay, I seem to recall, was a SMWS stalwart and could be a candidate for having a full run, and it could also be worth a look at his Lineage and Uniforms of the Regiments of Scotland - Past & Present website at http://www.btinternet.com/~james.mckay/journal.htm could be worth a visit. The site includes a forum.
ibi
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Point of information. Regarding entries for 'Fifeshire Fencibles' in Hythe birth records, this will be a reference to the Fifeshire Fencible Cavalry who moved to Kent from Essex in 1799, (having made their way gradually south from Carlisle in 1796 via Sheffield and the Fens). My g.g.g.g.grandfather commanded a troop 1794-1799.
There are detailed muster rolls and paylists for the F.F.C- biannual 1794-97 and monthly thereafter- at WO 13 in the National Archives, Kew. This may repay investigation if you haven't checked already.
It's dusty work, I warn you. I have just spent a couple of days in the company of my ancestor and his Laddies- "I venture to say there are not two finer troops in the regiment- I may say the ARMY". He didn't make it to Kent, though. Unfortunately he took sick the previous winter, went home and died.
Good Luck,
JF
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I think you may've got your dates wrong as the Fife Fencibles were in Ireland from 1795 to 1803.
I've been in touch with Kew and they say they have very little as records didn't survive.
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I'm sorry there was nothing much on the Fife Fencibles at Kew. The muster/pay records for the Fifeshire Fencible Cavalry at WO13/3748 and 3749 are fairly comprehensive- including the dates! Of course, I didn't mean to suggest those records would be any use to you.
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Hi can anyone point me in the right direction for the Loyal Irish Fencibles, I have an ancester who was a Sergeant, I'm not sure were to start tracing him. Thanks Lisa B
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here is a link to a Fife Fencibles website
http://thaneofife.org.uk/fencible-cav.html
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My ancestor Andrew Williamson enlisted in Loyal Tay Fencibles 2 Jan 1795. Believe his sister Margaret married Samuel Player.
You can see my tree at
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlonie/
Bill