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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Antdamm on Thursday 19 March 09 12:04 GMT (UK)

Title: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: Antdamm on Thursday 19 March 09 12:04 GMT (UK)
I may have already posted this on here, so apologies.

I am looking for ANY information on a relative called William Murphy Born 1893 in Glasgow. He got married in November 1914 in Glasgow. On his marriage certificate his profession is stated as - Private B Corp,  3rd Battalion - Blackwatch. Special Reserves. His residence is also listed as Nigg, Ross shire which is where the Blackwatch's training camp was. I know that this is the reserve forces and they went to Curragh, Ireland in 1914, but thats it.

I have tried searching on ancestry.co.uk and found an enlistment record/pension record that I thought was his, but after being in contact with an archivist from the blackwatch he assures me it is not. So there's no record of him on ancestry. I tried the nationalarchives and got some medal cards but I dont know if they are his or not. The archivist said to look for regiment numbers starting with 3/, but I havent been able to find any.
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: km1971 on Thursday 19 March 09 15:16 GMT (UK)
The 'Corp' will be Coy meaning Company.

If he was in the Special Reserve before the start of WW1 there could be a separate set of papers for him in WO96 in Kew. You need his regiment to search these, which you have - Black Watch or Royal Highlanders. If you cannot get to Kew, Findmypast will be putting them on line by 2011.

If you search the NA medal index card site there is one with a 3/ prefix. You need to use the Royal Highlanders as the Corps - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp? - and press  search

You could now search Ancestry for other Royal Highlanders with numbers beginning 3/ to see when they enlsted. You need one either side of 2324.

Didn't see the attachment - just read that you could not find any.

Ken
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: Antdamm on Thursday 19 March 09 15:25 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the info KM.

Much appreciated
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: km1971 on Friday 20 March 09 08:37 GMT (UK)
The 'entry into theatre' date of December 1914 I think shows he would have pre-WW1 experience.

Ken
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: Antdamm on Friday 20 March 09 09:11 GMT (UK)
Okay, im having no luck on ancestry. Maybe because im not sure exactly what to look for. If i try to search for royal highlanders, its coming up with nothing. If i search for william murphy, it only comes up with info i already have that is probably not connected to me.

Ken, are you suggesting that one of the medal cards i have belongs to My William Murphy?
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: Antdamm on Friday 20 March 09 09:38 GMT (UK)
Okay have managed to get ancestry to work for me. Have a massive list of folk associated with the words royal highlanders. Could be a while. They dont always put the 3/.
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: Antdamm on Friday 20 March 09 10:04 GMT (UK)
Have found a John Webster who's number is 3/2325
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: atom12 on Saturday 21 March 09 17:53 GMT (UK)
The most likely William Murphy appears to be this one:



Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: km1971 on Saturday 21 March 09 19:25 GMT (UK)
He is top left in your six. At least now you have it in colour. It looks as if he changed battalions in the RH and was then transferred to the Labour Corps.

Here is the NA link to MICs - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp. Let us know if you have any problems. If you can get to Kew the Victory/BWM roll might tell you which second RH battalion he was in. Or you might find a RH expert to say if you can tell from the number 30275 which battalion he moved to.

Ken

Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: Antdamm on Saturday 21 March 09 19:41 GMT (UK)
Thanks very much guys.

Much appreciated
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: atom12 on Saturday 21 March 09 21:12 GMT (UK)
Hi

Judging by his second regimental number of 30275 he went to the 7th Battalion, Royal Highlanders.  :)

Anne

Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: atom12 on Saturday 21 March 09 21:20 GMT (UK)
The Special Reserve were the Reserve battalion for the Regulars, therefore how  he ended up with a Territorial number I cannot comment on.

The 7th Battalion Royal Highlanders was a Territorial Battalion raised and supported by the County of Fife Territorial Association. 

Also, at some point he may have been either wounded, or physically downgraded as unfit for front line service, as he eventually ended up in the Labour Corps.
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: km1971 on Sunday 22 March 09 02:41 GMT (UK)
Very interesting. There is a link to when the various battalions of the Black Watch/RH went overseas - http://www.1914-1918.net/blackwatch.htm.

He was probably a pre-war member of the 3rd Battalion - doing a 6-8 week camp each year. During which time he was paid as a regular. From the date he went to France he must have been transferred to the 1st Battalion, without a change in his number - the '3/' would have kept him apart from the regulars  with their 4 or 5 digit numbers. The 1st Battalion were the only RH battalion in France at the time.

At some stage he was transferred to the 7th Battalion - Anne...it could I assume be the 1/7th, 2/7th or 3/7th.

About January or February 1917 he was transferred to the Labour Corps - the 7th Battalion were given 6 digit numbers in March 1917 - http://www.1914-1918.net/TF_renumbering_infantry.htm

As Ancestry have published surviving records for the Ms, I take it his have been lost. But it would be worth keeping your eye on when Findmypast publish the Militia/Special Reserve papers (WO96 - due 2011). You could join the Militia at 17 so 1910 will be the earliest he could enlist.

Ken
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: atom12 on Sunday 22 March 09 14:37 GMT (UK)
Ken and Meg

My apologies, I  gave last nights reply in too much of a rush.  William's number would have  had to have been a 6 digit number for him to be in the 7th RH.  :-[
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: atom12 on Sunday 22 March 09 14:57 GMT (UK)
Actually, there is no Royal Highlanders with 5 digit numbers unless there is an S/ in front of it.  Therefore, it would appear that someone has either missed the S/ off the MIC, or he is in a different regiment at that time (though he has been dittoed as RH).

Maybe you can make some sense of it Ken!  :-X
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: chinas on Sunday 21 February 10 13:33 GMT (UK)
atom12, it apears you have acees to some list concerning the black watch, I am trying to locate information on a relative GGrandfather, who was i believe in th BW in the boer war and recieved a medal for bravery of some kind his name was james or jim langston/e, I have pretty much come to dead end here in Australia, if you can help it would be apreciated I appologise for hijacking this thread but I could not find any way of starting a new thread.
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: atom12 on Sunday 21 February 10 15:51 GMT (UK)
Hi

Sorry, wasn't able to find your relative James Langston/e.
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: chinas on Monday 22 February 10 05:22 GMT (UK)
OK thanks for that I will have to keep trying. He ran away from home at 11 and joined up, there is a rumour that because of this he enlisted under another name.
Do you know if there is a registry somewhere that would list the awarded medals by name and what the medal was given for. I am quite happy to search lists etc. if I can find them
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: km1971 on Monday 22 February 10 06:40 GMT (UK)
There are no indexes by name until you get to WW1 medals. If you are convinced he joined the Black Watch/Royal Highlanders this is the stadard text for the 19th Century - http://www.naval-military-press.com/royal-highland-regiment.the-black-watch-formerly-42nd-and-73rd-foot.-medal-roll.1801-1911.html

Ken
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: chinas on Monday 22 February 10 11:07 GMT (UK)
Thanks
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: atom12 on Tuesday 23 February 10 13:33 GMT (UK)
Hi

He's not in that book - unless he has an alias!   :'(
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: chinas on Tuesday 23 February 10 14:01 GMT (UK)
Yes it seems he is not going to be easy to find, I found heaps of langston stuff in America but they don't seem to think any body existed before they got there. I Think I may go down the marrige records rout and see if I can find something that way This family history stuff certainly keeps you busy
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: atom12 on Tuesday 23 February 10 18:50 GMT (UK)
Whereabouts was James from/born/resided?  Any idea of his age! as he might have gone on to serve in the Great War.  :)
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: chinas on Wednesday 24 February 10 09:21 GMT (UK)
James was born in Largs and yes I believe he did serve in the great war and and also was a horse breaker for the army, but i think that was in Australia, I have managed to find out that he was a member of a local branch of the RSL ( Returned Soldiers Leage) so I am going to contact them, Unfortunately His only surviving daughter one of eight is now quite badly affected by dementia. Most of the grandsons and daughters don't know anything. I know were he is buried so I can work out his age from that.
Title: Re: Soldier in the Blackwatch
Post by: hellywelly on Wednesday 03 March 10 21:29 GMT (UK)
ancestor of mine also was in the Blackwatch (royal highlanders) 1st Battalion during the first world war.