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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Viktoria on Friday 08 May 09 23:21 BST (UK)
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Hi, I am wondering how common it was for parents who had lost a young baby to call their next child of the same sex, by the same name .It happened in our family when in 1888 my grandparents lost their eight month old son William Thomas-named after his maternal grandfather- and the next child bon in 1890 was also a son and he was named William . The fact that my great-grandfather William Thomas had died and one baby had been named after him who then also died at such a young age probably influenced my grandparent`s decision to name the next baby after his grandfather and -older brother -to carry on the name. Just curious. Viktoria.
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I have three boys, all with the same name born in 1792, 1794 and 1796 in Nottingham. I have only found evidence of the last one (my ggg-grandfather) so can only presume that the earlier two didn't survive.
There are other examples of children named for dead siblings in my other family lines too.
:)
Koromo
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David Lloyd George was given the same name as his older sibling who died in early infancy.
Pinot
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This happened a lot in many of my families in the 17 and 1800's. It was more obvious when checking census. One census has a child aged 5 called (eg) William and the next census has a child called William aged 2. Subsequent checking confirms the death of the first child.
The idea seems to have vanished in later times but certainly was common in previous generations.
Di
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If a child dies in infancy, his or her name is often given to a subsequent child - a natural consequence of the high birth rate and infant mortality rates of past times.
This has happened a lot in my family trees.
Cheers
KHP :)
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My husband,born into a London based Irish family in 1950,was given the name of his older brother who sadly had died 18 months before Pat was born at the age of just 9 months old.
The christian name is that of his paternal grandfather,and I suppose they felt the need to carry that name on in at least one of the grandchildren :)
They did at least give him a different middle name though.
Carol
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They did at least give him a different middle name though.
Carol
I have at least 3 that the middle name stayed.
Cheers
KHP
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My g-g-grandparents named a son Isaac, after my g-g-g-grandfather. This son died in infancy. They had another son and he was named Isaac but sadly he also died in infancy. They named their third son Isaac Walter and he died aged 65. As far as I know he was the last Isaac in the family. Maybe Isaac Walter, his brothers and cousins were scared to give their sons the name Isaac.
Ritchie
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Yes I see this happen many times.
Trying to find one of mine a Mary in 1780s one potential there were two deaths before her called Mary also.
I wonder why they did it. Seems to be all around England. Any one know of social reasons why they would do this?
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My gt.gr.parents did this 3 times! They had a son Robert Henry b. in Ireland, after he died they moved to Glasgow. The next son was also named Robert Henry - my grand father. Hugh Alexander and William were also the second children to be given their name. James was born in Ireland and survived.
Apparently he puzzled his grown up children by claiming to be the 7th son. My gt.gr. parents must have been honest about the family history.
Kooky
ps this was in 1870s and 1880s
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My grandparents did this in the early 1900's Two daughters Cecilia Ivy and Evelyn May died in early childhood so they combined the two second names for their last child and called her Ivy May.
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This happens over and over in my tree.
One couple named 3 children "Charles" and all 3 died as young babies, where the rest of their children lived - obviously this wasn't a wise choice of name for their children.
Many many couples in my ancestry lost babies and re-used the name for subsequent children. Sometimes they added or changed the middle name, but not always. I also noticed that sometimes the new baby was given the name of an older sibling who it seems was still alive when baby was registered but then in the following quarter or two there is then a death for that child, so I'm guessing that the older child was probably sick and the parents thought they would die and so re-used the name, even before the older child actaully died.
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It's family naming traditions, which you can find out about in a zillion places on the net. The tradition was strong throughout the 19th century, beginning to break down only after 1890ish. Basically, eldest son was always named after his paternal grandfather, eldest daughter after her maternal grnadmother, and a following hierarchy of rules for other children. So, if a first-born son died and there were no other sons at that point, the next-born son was the eldest and so took the same name. I have three James's in a single family for this reason. It often happened even if there were other sons around at the time, too.
Mike
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Hi
I have had many births of siblings with the same first names to the same parents. The older children died and subsequent ones were named after their deceased sibling.
Two sisters Clara Hannah Coombs born in 1861 and Clara Emma Coombs born in 1876. Clarah Hannah died in 1862. Clara Emma survived to adulthood.
I think this was a very common pratice.
Ben
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It happened many, many times in my family history and can sometimes explain why the ages on the census don't appear to be correct.
My late brother in law fell into the trap of not realising that two sons of the same family both had the same name, the first one having died, so his research was wrongly diverted to finding someone of the age of the first son. As soon as his notes etc. were sent to us, after he died, it was obvious what the problem was. All it took was a quick check on FreeBMD to find the death of the first child and the birth of the next one with the same name (since verified with the certs).
It seems to me that giving the next child the name of a dead sibling, was almost a kiss of death to that child too. Often in my family history, there have been 3 children in the same family all with the same name and all have died young. Superstitious moi ???
Lizzie
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I've recently discovered two cases of babies being named after dead siblings. One was Esther who died aged just 3 years. Her mum had two sons and then another daughter, who became Esther. There were also two Henry's in the same family, one died in infancy the other reached adulthood safely as far as I can tell :)
All that was in the late 19th and early 20th century.
More recently, I had a sister who died in 1946 when she was only 11 months old. Another brother was born soon after her death and then 7 years later mum had another daughter who was given a name almost the same as our dead sister. Not identical, but close enough for us to realise she was named for the little one.
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Thanks to everyone who sent in their info, it is all very interesting.Sad too, all those babies lost. When my friends and I used to go to our local cemetery just for a walk or to visit grandparent`s graves etc. we used to look for graves with lots of babies ,only days and weeks old very often. This was in the older Victorian section. Quite often the mother had died too . It makes you appreciate the improved maternity services we have now and anti-biotics etc.My friend has just sent me a book called "Call the Midwife" by Jennifer Worth. It`s about London`s docklands in the 1950`s,Cable Street , the Krays ,the marvellous women who bore more than ten children in poverty stricken conditions. That`s what it says on the back cover so it promises to be heartbreakingly interesting. Not a lot more to read of The Da Vinci Code so this will be next. Thanks again. Viktoria.
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Viktoria,
I have read the book ...... enjoy :)
Cheers
KHP :)
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Thanks KHP( Hey--- I`m getting briefer!) Viktoria.
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Not a lot more to read of The Da Vinci Code so this will be next. Thanks again. Viktoria.
I've read the DaVinci Code three times ::) Couldn't put it down...read it in one afternoon ;D I've just finished reading Angels and Demons, second time, and again read it in one afternoon ::) Going to see the film next week....can't wait ;D DaVinci Code DVD has been watched many times. Funny thing is, although I know the story I still enjoy it and get something new from it every time ;D I've also pre-ordered Dan Brown's new book due out in September...Robert Langdon is back so should be another good read.....can you tell I like his books ;D ;D
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There is a thread where Rootschatters discuss books they've read, your comments would be of interest on there mother25.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/069f/
Lizzie
Modified - Oops just noticed you already contribute mother25. Oh well perhaps others will be interested too.
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KHP.....I too have read "Call the Midwife" and really enjoyed it...she also has written another one..."In The Shadow of the Workhouse"
Carol
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There is a thread where Rootschatters discuss books they've read, your comments would be of interest on there mother25.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/069f/
Lizzie
Modified - Oops just noticed you already contribute mother25. Oh well perhaps others will be interested too.
Just had a quick look at what I posted on the books thread and realised I said I'd read Angels and Demons three times, when in fact I've only read it twice :-[ Confusing it with DaVinci Code I think ;D
However I did enjoy them both as I said....and that's the absolute truth ;D
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Have not had this in English lines, but have in one of my Scottish lines, twice in one family.
One of them, the elder girl did not die as had been expected, and so they ended up with two Catherines, although the second one was called Kate afterwards to distinguish between the two. There was 22 years between them and the elder one was married and having kids of her own, and was not expected to survive one particular birth. She did survive and went on to have about 12 more after that, living until she was nearly 90. The second Catherine was also 90 when she died.
The other one was in the same family. One son Thomas had died aged 26 days in 1839 in Scotland before the family left. The next child born on the ship in the North Atlantic somewhere in 1840 was a son and was given the name Thomas. The second Thomas lived to 75.
Ian C