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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Huntingdonshire => England => Huntingdonshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: bobtonks on Wednesday 20 May 09 19:41 BST (UK)

Title: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: bobtonks on Wednesday 20 May 09 19:41 BST (UK)
Can anyone see John Baumgartner and his family living in Huntingdon in the 1861 census? His son, also John (1813) was living in Suffolk, I believe. Can anyone see him and his family?
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: Mum44 on Wednesday 20 May 09 19:52 BST (UK)


Hello Bobtonks  :)

1861
RG9  P. 974  Fol  43  Pg. 11


Port Street, Godmanchester, Hunts

BAUMGARTNER
John Thos  Head  M  83  MD Edinburgh, not practising, Landed Gentry  B.  Notts. Nottingham
Phillipa  Wife  M  69                             B.  Cambs. Cambridge
Emma  F A  Dau  Un  32                       B.  Switzerland, Geveva, British subject
Eliza  Grand/dau and visitor 19           B.  Middlesex,  London
John R  Grand/son & visitor  15           B.    ~             ~
George A    ~             ~        11           B.  Durham  Coniscliffe

+ 5 servants
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: Mum44 on Wednesday 20 May 09 20:08 BST (UK)

and the son   ;)

1861
RG9.  P. 1189  Fol. 74  Pg. 28


Pier Hill, Gorleston, Great Yarmouth

BAUMGARTNER
John Percy Head  M  48  Landed Proprietor, Magistrate  B.  Hunts, Godmanchester
Elisa  Wife  M  44                                                             B.   ~            ~
William P  Son  13                               B. Kent
Jessie  Dau  10                                    B.   ~
Samuel Charles  Son  9                       B.    ~
Mary  Dau  6                                        B.    ~
Persis  Dau  4                                      B. Cambridgeshire
Henry Spelman  Son  1                        B.  Norfolk, Yarmouth
  + 2 servants

Not sure about the Persis name   :-\

The Magistrate is in fact written next to Elisa's name, not sure whether it really refers to her or John  :-\

ADDED :  Looked up her birth reg. - Persis is correct  ;)
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: bobtonks on Thursday 21 May 09 07:34 BST (UK)
Thank you both for the information.

Bob
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: bobtonks on Thursday 21 May 09 18:38 BST (UK)
In 1851 John Thomas Baumgartner lived in Milton Cambs.  Can anyone see him or John Percy Baumgartner in the 1841 census?
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: Mum44 on Thursday 21 May 09 19:44 BST (UK)


Hi Bob

Sorry, I can't see any of the family in 1841  :-\

I looked for the other names  -  Phillipa etc.  but none appear under Baumgartner or obvious similar names.

There are in fact only 4 of that name showing :

Adam, age 50 born Foreign Parts, living Oldham, Lancs

Edward  age 25  Living Middle Temple, London.  Barrister

George  age 18  Living Hampden Hall West Bromwich, Independent means

H.A  aged 15  Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: bobtonks on Friday 22 May 09 07:18 BST (UK)
Thanks for looking. It is possible that they were overseas in 1841.
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: barryd on Friday 01 January 16 00:54 GMT (UK)
1861 Census as prior posting above. George A. (Algernon) Baumgartner, born Coniscliffe,  (Darlington), County Durham. Son of Henry Algernon Baumgartner (Vicar of Coniscliffe) and Frances Octavia Wilkinson. GAB born 2 March 1850 and baptized 31 March 1850, both Coniscliffe. GAB married
Florence Harper, Trincomalee, Ceylon, 16 November 1878.
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: warren71 on Wednesday 03 January 18 09:23 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Does anyone know that one of the Baumgartners in and around 1850 to 1900's changed his name from Baumgartner to Perera while living in Ceylon due to a family dispute. His brother continued as a Baumgatner. This Baumgartner arrived in Ceylon around 1850, married a roman catholic girl known to us as Katherine Rye or Catherine Rice or Ryan from Ireland.

I am a descendant of this Baumgartner Perera paternal line and seeking this Baumgartner Family. Not many Baumgartners families visited Ceylon (probably only one family) so it is possible this John Baumgartner and his children has some link to the story in Ceylon.

thanks
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 03 January 18 11:39 GMT (UK)
1891 Census
The Vicarage,
Nettlebed, Oxfordshire
Henry A Baumgaertner, 69, Head, Mar, Vicar of Nettlebed
Frances C Baumgaertner, 64, Wife, Mar
Amy N Baumgaertner, 36, Daug, Unm
Eleolch S Baumgaertner, 35, Daug, Unm (Violet)
Juliet F Baumgaertner, 34, Daug , Unm
Percy A Baumgaertner, 11, Grandson, born London
George S K Baumgaertner, 10, Grandson, born  Gaffua, Sri Lanka****
Florence A Baumgaertner, 9, Granddaughter, born Kapatha, Sri Lanka*****
(been indexed as Sri Lanka but image is Ceylon for pob)

Percy was Algernon Percy on Baptism;
Parents;
George Algernon Baumgartner
Florence Baumgartner
Father in Ceylon Civil Service

Birth Reg GRO Index;
BAUMGARTNER, -   Mothers mn    HARPER****
GRO Reference: 1879  S Quarter in KENSINGTON  Volume 01A  Page 55

Last Census available Percys Father George, born c 1850 Durham, is a Civil service Ceylon*** Pensioner.

Interestingly there is this on Familysearch.Org;
F A Baumgarten
Immigration, 1886
Event Place   New York City, New York, United States
Male, Age 16 (1870), Occp Gentleman
Birthplace   Ceylon**
Ship Name "Dorset"
Place he was heading to was Wyoming

There are also these children born Ceylon;
1901 Census
Bedfordshire
Ethel M Baumgartner   Head   Female   40   Paddington, London
Bertram W V Baumgartner   Son   Male   18   Ceylon
Ethel M Baumgartner   Head   Female   40   Paddington, London
Bertram W V Baumgartner   Son   Male   18   Ceylon
Harrold V Baumgartner   Son   Male   17   Nettlebed, Oxfordshire
Eric S V Baumgartner   Son   Male   13   Ceylon
Una V Baumgartner   Daughter   Female   8   Bedford, Bedfordshire
Nellie Currington   Servant   Female   20   Royston, Cambridgeshire Baumgartner   Son   
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 03 January 18 11:50 GMT (UK)
After 1911 Ethel May Baumgaertner and some of her children change their name to Percy,
Death Reg; Julian M Vane-percy 1961
Marriage Reg; Una V Percy 1917
Probate; Ethel May Percy 1949
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 03 January 18 12:01 GMT (UK)
Who was your Ancestor who married Katherine Rye or Catherine Rice or Ryan?

Welcome to Rootschat.

I am sure others can help you more than I can and hopefully Bob will anwser you soon :)
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: josey on Wednesday 03 January 18 12:05 GMT (UK)
Welcome from me too, Warren  :)

Great stuff as always, Trish.
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 03 January 18 12:18 GMT (UK)

http://kabristan.org.uk


From Indexes
BAUMGARTNER
(Holy Trinity Church Nuwara Eliya Ceylon Sri Lanka)
Marriage & Reginald John child of George Algernon Baumgartner & Florence 
BAWA
Source;
Nuwara Eliya Birth/Baptism Records Ceylon (Sri Lanka)

Have a good luck through the site;
Eg;
Members of St Johns Lodge (Freemason);
BAUMGARTNER G.S.K.

Burials;
PERERA
(Burial records St Andrew’s Gampola Sri Lanka)
Caroline Margaret *********
PERERA
(Burial records St Andrew’s Gampola Sri Lanka)
Galabade Aratchigé Janis Samuel Perera
PERERA
(Burial records St Andrew’s Gampola Sri Lanka)
George Edmund son of Hendrick Perera
PERERA
(Burial records St Andrew’s Gampola Sri Lanka)
Hendrick Perera
PERERA
(Burial records St Andrew’s Gampola Sri Lanka)
John Wilfred Perera
PERERA
(Burial records St Andrew’s Gampola Sri Lanka)
Joseph Perera
PERERA
(Burial records St Andrew’s Gampola Sri Lanka)
Dona Salestina Perera
PERERA
(Burial records St Andrew’s Gampola Sri Lanka)
Sarah Perera Hamena
PERERA
(Burial records St Andrew’s Gampola Sri Lanka)
Seelanage …. John Perera
PERERA
(Burial records St Andrew’s Gampola Sri Lanka)
Sophia [Essenth] Perera

Too much for me at this time of night :)
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: warren71 on Wednesday 03 January 18 12:39 GMT (UK)
Thank you Trish,

It is hard work trying to connect the dots.

My family has it that this particular Baumgartner in Ceylon changed his name to Perera and not Percy. We all carry that Perera name now with the understanding that it was a Baumgartner before. His brother continued to carry the Baumgartner name.

Family story is that Katherine Rye from Ireland probably a Roman Catholic arrived in Ceylon around 1850 and was said to be carrying with her a solid gold cross that is only found in a large church. That cross is now supposedly in Sydney with a family member. Story is that the Baumgartner we seek married this catholic girl in Ceylon. Name was changed due to a family dispute or dispute with church due to intermarriage between religions. We know him as Carlos Perera but he was a Baumgartner. This Carlos Perera may also be Simon Alexander Perera; if we have got the generation mixed up. In Ceylon/Sri Lanka, we are classified as Ceylon Burghers.

Also, is it possinle that some members of the family changed to Percy and and one of them changed to a Perera due to the dispute.

I am wondering if there was two Baumgartner Brothers born around 1825 who visited Ceylon via a British Ship. Further, we also think this Baumgartner may have a French connection.

regards

warren



Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: trish1120 on Thursday 04 January 18 07:11 GMT (UK)
Hi Warren,

Sorry I couldnt join that dots for you!

I am in Sydney though so where is that Cross :D
(just a joke !)

All the best,
Trish :)
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: warren71 on Thursday 04 January 18 08:25 GMT (UK)
Hi Trish,

I was made to understand that the Baumgartner I seek was also one of the first European Editors of the Ceylon English Newspaper may be around 1850. Spoke french at his home in Ceylon and got married around 1850 in Ceylon. Had a child in 1852 and Changed his name to Perera.

Can we see if there is a Carlos Baumgartner or Karl Baumgartner born around 1825 who made it to Ceylon or India. He may have got to Ceylon via India and may have first met his wife in India. Wife was Katherine Rye or Catherine Rye or Rice or Ryan.

He may be of German background as well.

Thanks for all the help.

warren
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: trish1120 on Thursday 04 January 18 12:07 GMT (UK)
Hi Warren,
I'll see what I can find but if I dont get back to you for a while it is because I am going away for 10 days.

Maybe someone else can help in the meantime?

Trish :)
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: Sue222 on Sunday 21 January 18 20:29 GMT (UK)
This reply is not about the Ceylon Baumgartners; it is going back to the original request about John Percy Baumgartner. That was back in 2009, but if anyone is still looking for him, try searching for John Percy Brumhill. I think he went by his wife's name for a while.
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: warren71 on Wednesday 14 February 18 10:47 GMT (UK)
Hi
Further to the info about F.A Baumgarten in previous reply, do we have any info about his father and is there a Carlos Baumgarten possibly showing to be his father.


F A Baumgarten
Immigration, 1886
Event Place   New York City, New York, United States
Male, Age 16 (1870), Occp Gentleman
Birthplace   Ceylon**

tks
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: barryd on Tuesday 27 February 18 01:46 GMT (UK)
George Algernon Baumgartner born 2 March 1850, High Coniscliffe, Darlington, County Durham. Married Trincomalee, Ceylon to Florence Harper 16 Nov 1878. Five known children of this couple. Two known to have been born in Ceylon - George Samuel Knight Baumgartner  born 1880 Jaffna, sister Florence Alice 23 July 1881, Kegalla. 
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: bedfordshire boy on Tuesday 27 February 18 10:31 GMT (UK)
George Algernon Baumgartner born 2 March 1850 
Mother's maiden name Wilkinson
Title: Re: John Baumgartner 1861
Post by: warren71 on Saturday 31 July 21 01:09 BST (UK)
Who was your Ancestor who married Katherine Rye or Catherine Rice or Ryan?

Welcome to Rootschat.

I am sure others can help you more than I can and hopefully Bob will anwser you soon :)

****

We actually managed to trace and connect with the family of Katherine Rye who now live in the US. She was actually born Maria Catharina Rey; born 28 Aug 1835 Richrath-Reusrath, Rheinland, Preußen, Germany and died in Colombo. She was a German girl who changed her name to Rye in Colombo, Ceylon. She was the spouse of Carlos Perera aka Carlos Baumgartner.

Also, I am hoping someone can help me trace a Martin Baumgartner who married Philipina Ferdinands (Colombo, Sri Lanka) around 1825-1827. As per my many DNA matches it shows that Philipina Ferdinands was actually Philipina Ferdinandus (Sinhalese origin), father Soloman Ferdinands and her grandfather Johannes Ferdinandus of Sri Lanka originally Fernando. Philipina's father along with several of his siblings (with the exception of the eldest son) had the benefit of their name being changed from Ferdinandus to Ferdinands.

I am hoping someone can help me with any information regarding Martin Baumgartner.

Thanks

Warren