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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: LindeL on Friday 09 October 09 14:17 BST (UK)
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I have just been trying to figure out the various Allen families in the Dunboe/ Macosquin area, and if anyone is working on them, or knows about them, I'd be glad to hear from them.
My great grandmother Isabella Allen was granddaughter of Robert Allen of Glenleary who was 88 in 1911.
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Hi,
I have a record of a Robert Allen who was head of house in Glenleary, Macosquin in the 1851 census. His wife was Betty and his children were Nancy, aged 6, John, aged 18mths and Sarah aged 1 Month. I also have a record of the marriage of a Robert Allen to Elizabeth Henry in Dunboe 2nd Presbyterian Church on 3 Mar 1844.
Regards
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That is a very speedy reply! many thanks, yes that is them. I have been piecing together odd bits, but they weren't well off, so are slipping through some of the nets. Thanks indeed for confirming the Dunboe marriage; I'd deduced from various sources that his wife was Elizabeth, and only today came at it from two angles on Emerald Ancestors to make it fairly clear that it was the right couple.
Now it looks as though I descend from Henrys, and up until now I knew only that my mother's cousin had married into that connection, so that is an interesting change of focus
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Hi,
According to the Griffith's Valuation 1858, Robert was not rich but as he held 10 acres of land and 2 1/2 acres of bog he was better off than most people.
Regards
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Macosquin Presbyterian Church, 24 Mar.1887, James Allen, full age, bachelor, farmer, Glenleary, son of Robert Allen, farmer, to Esther Allen, full age, spinster, Camus, dau. of John Allen, _. Witnesses: John Allen, Lizzie MacFaul.
Their children baptised in same church. Have over 20 Allen baptisms from Macosuin Presbyterian Church (1879-1917)- if you are interested will send by PM.
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thanks very much for the offered records; I have been through the film myself in Coleraine, but of course it would be nice to have a check from someone else's reading of it. Is there a gap up to the 1870s in the Macosquin register, or did I miss a few pages?
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Also have the following death letters for Allens-
"Died at his residence, Camus, Coleraine on Sabbath 27th December 1942 JOHN ALLEN. The remains of my beloved husband will be removed for interment in Macosquin Presbyterian Burying-ground, on Tuesday 29th inst., at 2 p.m. (S.T.). Elizabeth Allen"
"Died at her husband's residence, Ballinrees on Sunday the 25th January 1891 ELLEN, beloved wife of John Allen ahed 54 years. Her remains will be removed for interment in First Dunboe Presbyterian Burying-ground on Tuesday 27th inst. at Twelve o'clock noon. John Allen"
"Died at her residence, Camus on Thursday, 8th October, 1914 MARGARET ANN relict of the late William Allen. Her remains will be removed for interment in Macosquin Presbyterian Burying-ground on Saturday 10th inst. at the hour of Two o'clock p.m. John Allen"
"Died at his father's residence Glenleary on Wednesday, 12th April 1882 WILLIAM ALLAN aged 26 years. His remains will be removed for interment in Camus Burying-ground, on Thursday evening 13th instant at 4 o'clock. Robert Allan"
"Died at his father's residence Glenleary on Monday 27th February 1911 SAMUEL JAMES third son of James Allen aged 10 years. His remains will be removed for Interment in Camus Burying Ground on Wednesday 1st March at the hour of 2 o'clock p.m. James Allen"
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Thank you very much for these death notices. There is new information in them, and I am pleased to find that the Glenleary folk buried in Camus I;ll have to have a look in that old graveyard as I pas by; I'd never thought I had anybody buried there to justify a poke around it
L
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I was in Camus on Monday afternoon but wasn't looking for Allen graves- it's a bit overgrown at the moment so suggest wellies if grass is damp.
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did anyone notice if there are any mcquilkin graves in Camus cemetery
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A bit more info on the Robert Allen and Elizabeth (Betty) Henry marriage of 1844 in 2nd Dunboe; it turns out that both were from Ballinrees, and were married in Dunboe by certificate fromMr Lyle, so that makes more sense to me now. It wasn't clear to me why they might have married in Dunboe and then baptized their children in Macosquin. Presumably Mr Lyle was minister of Macosquin?
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Macosquin Presbyterian Church: Clarke Houston minister 1823-1866.
First Dunboe Presbyterian Church: William Lyle minister 1814-1867.
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Well, that's interesting. I'll have to have a think about this! Thanks
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Being married in Dunboe by Mr. Lyle makes sense but marriages usually take place in bride's church so perhaps they went to Macosquin** or moved after their marriage.
** first Allen baptism in Macosquin Presbyterian Church is 1879. Do you mean Macosquin Church of Ireland?
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I'm beginning to think this 1844 marriage in Dunboe may not be the right marriage. Names fit, date is plausible, but I can't see why they are said to be of Ballinrees, and in second Dunboe; even if they are First Dunboe members that still doesn't work too well. I know Glenleary isn't a million miles from Dunboe and from Ballinrees, but they were in Glenleary in 1851, were communicants in Macosquin and buried in Camus and also I had been postulating a connection to Henrys of Camus, rather than of Ballinrees. If they were married before 1845, it won't show in public records and I think, all in all, that it's not impossible that there was another couple called Robert Allen and Eliza Henry.
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Hi Linde
I know your post is from 2009, but having read it - something you might want to consider is that 2nd Dunboe and Ringsend Presbyterian Church is covered by the one Minister - not sure how long this arrangement has been in place - but as you move towards the Leck from the church you are not a million miles away from Macosquin, althoygh Camus is somewhat removed. Best regards T.
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I believe we are researching the same family. Robert Allen was my husbands great great grandfather. Robert and Betty had a daughter who was called Margaret Ann Allen she married a McMichael. she kept the Henry name in the family by calling one of her daughters Bessie Henry McMichael. We are looking for the birth registration of Margaret. I do have census documents and willing to share the links
Louise McMichael
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I believe we are researching the same family. Robert Allen was my husbands great great grandfather. Robert and Betty had a daughter who was called Margaret Ann Allen she married a McMichael. she kept the Henry name in the family by calling one of her daughters Bessie Henry McMichael. We are looking for the birth registration of Margaret. I do have census documents and willing to share the links
Louise McMichael
Margt Jane, daughter of Daniel McMichael & Margt Allen baptised 24 Nov.1872 Macosquin Presbyterian Church- birthdate given as 5 May 1872.
Can't find birth in Irish Genealogy or GRONI yet.
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This is interesting; let's make the links!
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I didn't have a note of Margaret Allen as a daughter of Robert, must have missed her.I have 6 children of Robert's. Let me have an email address and I'll send you what I have on them
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I have the marriage from the Coleraine Chronicle but it wasn't clear that she was Robert's daughter; just that she was from Camus; the newspaper report calls her Maggie
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We suppose there is a connection as the Margaret Allen we have is the daughter of a Robert Allen, a farmer of Glenleary. This is known from her wedding certificate. But apart from that known connection we haven't made a more positive connection than this. We know Robert Allen married Betty Whose surname was Henry and they had several children around the 1850's. But it is true we haven't yet found a record of Margaret among them. We do have her age when she married and her age when she died but unfortunately these are slightly inconsistent meaning we only know she was born between 1849 and 1853. One possible sign of a connection with Robert Allen and Betty Henry is that our Margaret Allen baptised her 3rd daughter ( Bessie McMichael) with the unusual middle name Henry which of course is the maiden name of Robert Allen's wife. If Margaret Allen is not the daughter of Robert and Betty then there was a second person named, Robert Allen, a farmer, from Glenleary having children at a very similar period but we have found no other records pointing to this. If you have good details about Robert and Bettys children we would be interested if only to rule out whether Margaret could possibly be a missing daughter of Robert and Betty.
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Thank you for this. It is the mother who was Margaret Ann (Anne) Allen we are looking for.
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Hi Linde
PRONI will records has a William Allen, farmer, of Camus County Londonderry who died on 07 April 1891 - the will "image" shows he had daughters Margaret Jane, a second whose name I cannot make out, and Lizzie, and sons James and John. His wife is stated to be Margaret Ann. Brown1777
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PRONI will records has a William Allen, farmer, of Camus County Londonderry who died on 07 April 1891 - the will "image" shows he had daughters Margaret Jane, a second whose name I cannot make out, and Lizzie, and sons James and John. His wife is stated to be Margaret Ann. Brown1777
The Will says "I bequeath to my daughter Margaret Jane the sum of ..." and a daughter Easter also mentioned.
William Allen of Camus married Margaret Anne "Peggy" Cameron died 1914-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Somerset/Camus/1516797
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Somerset/Camus/587809
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1914/05290/4470663.pdf
Son John died 1942, daughter Eliza born 1865
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Death letters-
Died at her residence, Camus on Thursday, 8th October, 1914 MARGARET ANN relict of the late William ALLEN. Her remains will be removed for interment in Macosquin Presbyterian Burying-ground on Saturday 10th inst. at the hour of Two o'clock p.m. John Allen
Died at his residence, Camus, Coleraine on Sabbath 27th December 1942 JOHN ALLEN. The remains of my beloved husband will be removed for interment in Macosquin Presbyterian Burying-ground, on Tuesday 29th inst., at 2 p.m. (S.T.) Elizabeth Allen
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Not sure if anyone still interested in Allen families mentioned here but there is at least one gravestone in Camus Burying-ground-
Erected by Robert Allen of Glenleary in memory of his son Robert who died 27th May 1878 aged 11 years. Also his son William who died 12th April 1882 aged 26 years. Also his wife Betty who died 10th Jany. 1900
Death of Elizabeth Allen, married, age 75, registered by son J. Allen (deaths for the 2 above sons will eventually be put online)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05775/4632539.pdf
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Somerset/Glenleary/1516920
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Somerset/Glenleary/587923
Husband Robert died 1912- death registered by son James Allen-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1912/05377/4499889.pdf
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Thanks to everyone for extra information. I am still a little confused; I'll be glad to have Maggie McMichael as a great great great aunt, but I am still hesitating a bit. I am still concerned that perhaps there are two Robert Allens both married to women called Elizabeth, and possibly even that the two women are Henrys. The question about the Allen/ Henry marriage with associated townlands that I wasn't expecting, is one thing; but also the Chronicle notice says Maggie Allen was of Camus. My Robert Allen was apparently in Glenleary in 1858 and afterwards, while there was a William Allen in Camus. One possibility is that Maggie Allen is indeed a daughter of Robert Allen of Glenleary but was in service in Camus; would the newspaper have worded the notice that way if so? Would there even have been a newspaper notice for a girl who was in service? Maybe not. Two Robert Allens married to two Elizabeths is not impossible. If there are two parallel families, it could explain why you have alternative birthdates for Margaret Allen McMichael, as indeed I have for an Ann or Nancy in "My" Robert's family; 1849 or 1859. I need a bit more headspace to think about all of this; very confusing!
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Hi Linde
I note your confusion about the townlands - I will send you a PM about them. Brown1777
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Thanks Brown1777, yes the townlands are contiguous, and there are certainly cases where boundary change complicated things, and people used older names for townlands but in this case my Robert Allen seems to have been in Glenleary in most or all records and William Allen seems to have been in Camus. While checking them on the Val maps on Askaboutireland i noticed something which i will have to explore more in Deeds or somewhere. In Ballyness on the Bann shore, a Robert Allen, immediate lessor, was listed as possessor of an unoccupied house and offices valued at £14, ie more than the Robert Allen holding in Glenleary. This cannot be my ancestor, but it may be that it was a descendant of the mysterious (to me!) Andrew Allen of Coleraine, linen draper, who was mentioned in a1770 deed re one sixth of the lands of Glenleary. More work required!
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There was no Allen listed as head of household in 1831 census for either Camus or Glenleary-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Coleraine/Macosquin/Camus
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Coleraine/Macosquin/Glenleary
My great grandmother Isabella Allen was granddaughter of Robert Allen of Glenleary who was 88 in 1911.
Who were her parents?
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Good question! My great grandmother was brought up as a daughter of Robert Allen, but on her marriage cert it states that she was the daughter of John Smyth. Her mother was a daughter of Robert Allen. I don't know if John Smyth was indeed a local man called John Smyth or if that was just a polite fiction for not giving the man's real name.
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If she was trying to cover up illegitimacy then it's more likely she would have given her father as Robert Allen rather than making up the name of someone in the area.
Father listed as John Smith not Smyth-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1892/10649/5879735.pdf
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What I meant was that I don't know if her father was a man who was really called John Smyth or Smith or whether that was a name used for example by the minister or the family as a name to cover the identity of a known or unknown local man. John Smith is used as a sort of a fictional name, like John Doe in America
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The minister wouldn't have made up the name on the marriage certificate. The spelling, on the other hand, might be his variation of Smith/Smyth. It's also unlikely that Isabella made up the name herself- if she was trying to hide something she would have given her father as Robert Allen.
Birth certificate for Isabella should list mother's name and possibly her father's name. A baptismal record would also probably give those details.
If she was born elsewhere and came to Glenleary as a young girl then school register might give name of a previous school.
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Her mother was Sarah Jane Allen. Isabella was born or baptised 27 April 1873 acc to Macosquin register. I haven't found a birth cert. Sarah Allen may be the same as Sarah Allen living with her daughter Jane Connolly in Cullyvenny in 1911. I am still inclined to think that the minister was tactfully concealing paternity by filling in the father as John Smith; as in "A.N. Unknown" but more opaque
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The minister would not have lied about the bride's father but would have recorded what he was told (although her father's name might have been common knowledge). Clergy, especially Presbyterian ones, would have had no problem putting illegitimate in a register or leaving the father's name blank. There would have been absolutely NO reason for the minister to fabricate a father.
If Isabella was Sarah Jane Allen's daughter then this is probably a brother/half-brother-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1885/02662/1981127.pdf
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Just realised problem looking at date-
Her mother was Sarah Jane Allen. Isabella was born or baptised 27 April 1873 acc to Macosquin register. I haven't found a birth cert. Sarah Allen may be the same as Sarah Allen living with her daughter Jane Connolly in Cullyvenny in 1911. I am still inclined to think that the minister was tactfully concealing paternity by filling in the father as John Smith; as in "A.N. Unknown" but more opaque
Sarah Allen's daughter Jane was born 26 Apr.1873-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03201/2173781.pdf
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It's possible that Isabella was registered as Jane in 1873 because in 1882 a daughter Jane was born (this fits with Jane Conolly's age in 1911)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Somerset/Coolyvenny/587858
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Hello, we're still following this avidly, after "butting in" a while ago in respect of our interest in Robert Allen of Glenleary and the possible (father-daughter?) link with our Margaret Ann[e] Allen (sometimes 'Peggy', never 'Maggie'......). And our interest is because she became Margaret/Peggy McMichael and now rests [alone] in the smallest graveyard in front of Macosquin Pres. Ch.
Anyway, I know the thread is on a different tack just now - equally intriguing - but reading the discussion about (Isa-)Bella Allen and her marriage cert, I checked pictures my husband took in Macosquin Presbyterian last May, and (I am sure LyndeL and aghadowey will have seen this - attempting photo upload) - but it struck me the name of the female witness on the church register was a "Mary McMichael." Now someone called Mary McMichael was - definitely - the firstborn of Peggy (neé Allen, daughter of Robert) with Daniel McMichael. And - relying on Peggy Allen's marriage cert - Mary is a granddaughter of someone called "Robert Allen, a farmer, of Glenleary". (Granted, as Lindel has said, the possibility of two Robert Allens in Glenleary in the 1850s onwards isn't impossible though we haven't found two distinct evidence groups either...)
Mary herself was born 1870 and baptised in Macosquin Presbyterian Church where the family then resided til the 1890s. So, she's born 3 yrs before Bella, then married 2 years after her and is (conjectural) at one with the witness at Bella's marriage. The dates are not bad.
If the tempting links and our suppositions (that Peggy may just possibly be a sister of Sarah albeit 'missing' from other records discussed above) are right, then this could theoretically be Mary witnessing her cousin's wedding. Which may be further circumstantial evidence for a link, ie Robert Allen's & Betty Henry's family, with Peggy McMichael's descendants. This is added to the fact, mentioned above, that her second sister [Bessie McMichael] bore the middle name 'Henry'.
Except for that "Father - John Smith" reference which does rather upset things. So my husband will be very interested how the "John Smith" dimension is resolved.... As I say - intriguing.
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Thought that Linde would have responded to the last few posts by now as she;d been online :-\
There is only evidence of ONE Robert Allen in Glenleary at that time. Since no Allens were in Glenleary or Camus in 1831 it's more than likely that Robert (Glenleary) and William (Camus) came from elsewhere. Ballinrees (or a neighbouring townland) is the most likely possibility and going from the death letters I have there would seem to be some sort of friendship if not connection. This is more likely considering the 1844 marriage of Robert Allen & Bessie Henry in 2nd Dunboe.
I'm not sure why 'John Smith' being the father of Sarah Allen's daughter Isabella upsets anything. Sarah's 3 known children where illegitimate (not clear if 'John Smith' would be father to either of the other children). Unfortunately too many possible local candidates to be Isabella's father based on name alone.
After putting together an extensive Allen family tree from available records it does seem as though the Allens in the area might all be connected and they certainly intermarried several times.
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I am posting this on behalf of Linde who had sent the message to me in error - sorry I have been offline for a few days.
Oh. I don't know. My goodness. When ancestors set out to confuse their descendants, they can make things really difficult! To go back to the Maggie McMichael issue. Griffiths' has a McMicken in Camus. Probably Daniel's family. There is a William Allen in Camus. Robert Allen's holding seems to be definitely in Glenleary in all the places i have seen any note of it. It is on the edge of Glenleary however. Maggie in newspaper report, not Peggy.
I am not sure we are winning on these people, do any of you see something that i am missing?
Linde to reply to your topics on RootsChat you must click on the blue "reply" button at the bottom of the thread ;)
Regards
Sarah
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To go back to the Maggie McMichael issue. Griffiths' has a McMicken in Camus. Probably Daniel's family.
NO!
A Margaret McMieken is listed in Camus in Griffith's.
Daniel McMichael's 2nd marriage gives his father's name as Daniel.
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To go back to the Maggie McMichael issue. Griffiths' has a McMicken in Camus. Probably Daniel's family. There is a William Allen in Camus. Robert Allen's holding seems to be definitely in Glenleary in all the places i have seen any note of it. It is on the edge of Glenleary however. Maggie in newspaper report, not Peggy.
Through ALL the valuation revision books Robert Allen is in Glenleary until the property changed to James Allen (changed again before 1915 but we know that James Allen & family moved to Canada 1913) although until around 1871 William Allen also had right of fishing for salmon under Camus. William Allen is in Camus until a change in 1893 to John Allen.
All of the above is supported by church & vital records which place Robert Allen in Glenleary & William Allen in Camus.
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Yes so all we have to explain (or decide to stop worrying about) is the newspaper report that both Daniel and Maggie were from Camus. Here is a theory, Maggie indeed a daughter of Robert but living with William's family to help look after children, spin flax, go to school, whatever. If William and Robert were brothers. Had William's wife died perhaps? Just a theory. And of course newspapers get things wrong!
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Yes so all we have to explain (or decide to stop worrying about) is the newspaper report that both Daniel and Maggie were from Camus. Here is a theory, Maggie indeed a daughter of Robert but living with William's family to help look after children, spin flax, go to school, whatever. If William and Robert were brothers. Had William's wife died perhaps? Just a theory. And of course newspapers get things wrong!
William Allen died in 1871 and his wife died in 1914.
The residences of bride and groom are at the time of the marriage and Daniel was not from Camus. Margaret Allen was originally Glenleary but if they lived in the bit of Glenleary that marches Camus that could explain the confusion.
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New to me; information about an earlier and presumably prosperous Allen, from the Registry of Deeds. 1783 Mr William Allen of Banfield in the suburbs of Coleraine, leases two fields to James Black of Coleraine; 2 fields on east side of the road from Coleraine to the New Mills, formerly held by said James Black and Allen McDugall and then in possession of said James Black. Lives James Black lessee, James Black junior. second son of lessee and Robert Allen, eldest son of said William Allen of Banfield and 21 years. £5/3/1. James Black signed with a mark.
The use of the Christian names William and Robert is of interest but this cannot be "my" Robert, who wasn't born until around 1823. A man described as "Mr" and leasing fields, may have been prosperous, and MIGHT be related to Andrew Allen, linen draper, who owned part of Glenleary in 1770
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I posted the previous message too quickly. This William Allen of Banfield, or another William Allen of Banfield, is mentioned in Mullin's book about Georgian Coleraine; he owned the tanyard in the vicinity of Banfield. A Robert Allen was in Coleraine in 1754
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Here is another intriguing bit of information about Allens in the area; whether my ancestors or different Allens, we may never know. According to Mullin in his book on Aghadowey, Pyke's 1725 survey lists a Patrick McAllen in Culcrow [Cole Crowe] and Mullaghmore [Mullagh Moor}]a James McAllen. These men may be of Irish rather than Scots origin; certainly the half of Mullaghmore had 5 tenants including McAllen, and only one, Widow Grey, looks to be a settler name. Patrick at that date was not strictly an Irish name; there are Scots Patricks, so it's not certain
Culcrow is not that far from Glenleary
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After going through all available vital records on Irish Genealogy, census and other records (including my own files) I have found that both Robert Allen of Glenleary and William Allen of Camus married in Dunboe area and were almost certainly from there before coming to those Macosquin townlands.
Robert Allen (c1823-1912), Glenleary, married Elizabeth Henry and had the following children (could be others that dies young, etc.)- Nancy, William, John, Sarah Jane (mother of 3 illegitimate children), Margaret Anne, Joseph, Mary Ann, James, Robert.
William Allen (c1809-1891), Camus, married Margaret Anne Cameron and had the following children (again, could be others I've not found yet)- Margaret Jane, John, James, Esther, Elizabeth.
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Thank you so much for this information. Do you have any records for the child of Robert and Elizabeth Henry who you have stated is Margaret Anne. i have drawn a complete blank in all my searches and am keen to have the evidence of her as she does not appear in any of the census documents.
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Margaret Anne "Peggy" Allen was born probably 1851-1853 (certainly after 1851 census) and married Daniel McMichael in 1869. I have 10 children for them and just to confuse matters the eldest daughter married a James Allen from Coleraine- these Allens were tailors and not from Glenleary or Camus as far as I can see. Two of Margaret Anne Allens siblings also married Allens (both from Camus).
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We have this information including marriage certificates for Daniel and Peggy and baptism records for all of Daniel and Peggy's children what I am missing is Margaret Anne's (Peggy's birth records) if i had this i could evidence her as the child of Robert and Elizabeth otherwise it is just conjecture
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I don't have the marriage right in front of me at the moment but doesn't Margaret's marriage list her father as Robert Allen? farmer?
There are gaps/missing records for local baptisms and the 1st Allen baptisms in Macosquin Presbyterian Church are 1879 (I've not found earlier one for Margaret in any other local church).
Aside from what you've already posted here-
- There was only one Robert Allen in Glenleary at that period. He married (1844) Elizabeth Henry- Margaret's daughter called Bessie Henry McMichael
- Alexander Allen (illegitimate son of Sarah Jane Allen) named 2nd daughter Jane Lennox Allen (1909)- Margaret's daughter Annie Maria's widower James Brennan married (1908) Jane Lennox Steel
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thanks for your email
We have no reason to believe this is where they came from. There are other Robert Allen's in Ireland and in fact Scotland that where farmers but without Margaret Anne's ( Peggy's) birth records we cannot confirm if she was the daughter of this family.
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I'm not sure why you don't believe that Margaret Allen was part of the Glenleary family. Her children were all born & baptised in the vacinity of Glenleary. I'm not sure who registered all their births but that's certainly easy enough to check. Unfortunately it is unlikely that a baptism for Margaret survives.
It seems that Robert Allen & William Allen both came to Glenleary/Camus from Dunboe direction and there aren't other Allens in the immediate vicinity which makes it easier to check all possible existing records and figure out exactly who belongs to which family.
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Thanks for this. We have copies of all the children's baptism records. However we can't find any trace of Margaret registered in Glenleary or for that matter Daniel her husband. We have no further information on Daniels parents lineage. We know daniel and Margaret Anne were married in that area and she died there as her grave is there w ex also have her death certificate but nothing else. It would be good to follow the evidence. She may have come to the area from Lancaster as there is a farmer called Allen listed in the census with a daughtersame name as Margaret. Who knows without confirmation it is difficult to assume?
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Should also mention that when William McMichael of Belfast (son of Margaret Allen) married in 1918 in Aghadowey one of the witnesses was Wm. Jas. Kirkpatrick
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1919/09672/5507461.pdf
William James in 1911 Census-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Drumcroon/Dromore/652396
William James Kirkpatrick's mother was, of course, Isabella Allen-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1895/02232/1841214.pdf
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We have copies of all the children's baptism records.
I meant checking all the birth registrations to see who the informants were- in case a relative of Margaret's.
She may have come to the area from Lancaster as there is a farmer called Allen listed in the census with a daughtersame name as Margaret.
Do the census records for children in America not say mother was born in Ireland? U.S. marriage and death records usually list names and place s of birth for parents.
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Excellent ideas thank you. I will research the registers to see who was present at Births.
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Hello Aghadowey and McMichael, Aghadwoey, I think the evidence that you have gathered is almost a casebook example of as good as it gets in Ulster genealogy! Speaking as a descendant of Sarah Jane Allen, I'm happy to accept descendants of Margaret Anne McMichael as kin....
thanks to both for bringing this up and working on it; I've been away from family history for months, so it's good to see people are still finding things
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Great to hear from you. I am still trying to find birth records for the elusive Margaret Ann Allen. Hope all well your end
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There would only have been a baptism record (not birth record) for Margaret Ann Allen as she was born c1852 (probably just missed being in 1851 census with her parents).
Unfortunately the local Presbyterian churches do not have any record of her or her siblings. Aghadowey, Crossgar, Killaig and Macosquin have all been checked, Ballylintagh doesn't have any existing baptisms, Ballylaggan does have older baptisms but is Reformed Presbyterian. Ringsend and Dromore are too recent.
Therefore, unless an old Family Bible just happens to turn up somewhere then you will not get a nice tidy record showing Margaret's date of birth and her parents.
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I hope I'm not repeating myself, and have forgotten what I thought I knew about these people......I just saw a photograph of my grandmother Isabella Kirkpatrick on her wedding day in Crossgar on this date 29 December 1920. Her bridesmaid we believe was Annie Margaret Allen. We don't know how Annie Margaret Allen was related; my aunt thought she was just a friend, but she must have been related, because my grandmother's mother was Isabella Allen. Isabella Kirkpatrick was born 1893; I have a note of Annie Margaret Cameron Allen born 1894, child of John Allen of Camus and Lizzie McFaul, so I'll have to have a look to see how I can link John Allen to my Allens. Pity such common names!
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Another possibility is Margaret Ann Allen, who is a cousin of my grandmother's, daughter of James Allen of Glenleary, but she was older, born 1887? and my aunt said that her mother talked about Annie Margaret Allen, not Margaret Ann Allen
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Witnesses to the 1920 marriage were Georgina H. Gilmore & William John Torrens-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1920/09277/5358713.pdf
Anna Margretta Savage Allen (born 1917) was your grandmother's cousin. There was also an Annie Margaret Cameron Allen (born 1894)- father's sister Margaret Jane Allen married a William Kirkpatrick.
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Oh, so possibly the bridesmaid was not Annie Margaret Allen? I'll ask my aunt if she ever heard of Georgina Gilmore or if she knows anything more that could suggest why the name Annie Margaret Allen was linked to the wedding photograph
Thanks Aghadowey, happy new year!
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Linde
There is nothing like being told who your relatives are!
Happy New Year
Brown1777
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Next question! who was Georgina Gilmore? I don't find her in the 1911 census? I asked my mother who was her mother's bridesmaid, and she unprompted said "Georgina Allen" but I don't see that name in the census either
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Next question! who was Georgina Gilmore? I don't find her in the 1911 census? I asked my mother who was her mother's bridesmaid, and she unprompted said "Georgina Allen" but I don't see that name in the census either
Georgina Harriet Gilmore born 1895, illegitimate daughter of Sarah Gilmore of Crevolea. Georgina went to Canada in 1922, married Robert Allen of Glenleary (son of James Allen & Esther Allen). The Canadian family visited us a few years ago and from memory I think they said that Georgina's mother went to live with the Allens in Canada.
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Ah, that's interesting and helpful. Thanks Aghadowey. I'll see what I can do with this information
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Georgina Harriet Gilmore & mother in 1911-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Aghadowney/Mullan/651967
Gilmores of Crevolea in 1901-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Aghadowey/Crevolea/1515958