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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: c-side on Tuesday 17 November 09 20:34 GMT (UK)

Title: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Tuesday 17 November 09 20:34 GMT (UK)
I've just come across a reference in Horton burials to Crofton Poor House.

I've never seen this before - can anyone tell me where it was?

Christine
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: stanmapstone on Tuesday 17 November 09 22:15 GMT (UK)
In 1827 South Blyth (or Blyth Nook) had a poor house or workhouse at Crofton.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/
Stan
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Tuesday 17 November 09 23:33 GMT (UK)
Thanks Stan.  I have that site in favourites but hadn't spotted a Blyth connection before.

The question now is which Crofton?  Crofton Mill in the north of the town by the river or Crofton - a little enclave of houses to the south.  Unfortunately my map is 1897 not 1827 - I need an earlier one!

Christine
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: stanmapstone on Wednesday 18 November 09 14:22 GMT (UK)
1825 " There is a poor-house at Hartley, and another in the township of South Blyth."   http://www.rootschat.com/links/07i9/   

Stan
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: Michael Dixon on Wednesday 18 November 09 15:57 GMT (UK)


 Going on from Stan's info that poor house was in Township of South Blyth.....

 The "south" Crofton community had one foot within the "South Blyth Township" which lay within Earsdon Parish.

 The "north" Crofton community lay within the Township of Cowpen, which lay within Horton Parish.

The north one was not part of South Blyth, nor even the enlarged town of Blyth, until 1907, when Blyth Urban District ( 4,000 pop.) merged with Cowpen Urbuan District (12,000 pop) as Blyth Urban District.

So poor house was in vicinity of the southern Crofton,

Maps within the Blyth Community of the communities.northumberland.gov.uk
( Plans and Ordnace Maps sections) show the shape/devellopment of the area ( especially the Armstrond's of 1769)

Michael
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Wednesday 18 November 09 17:30 GMT (UK)
Thanks both.

I knew the different localities of the two Croftons but since the burial was at Horton and not Earsdon it led me to wonder which one.

Christine
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: Michael Dixon on Wednesday 18 November 09 22:41 GMT (UK)
 
Parson & White trade directory of 1827 (page 411) under the section "Blyth or Blyth Nook", lists Brodie Adam as governor of the Workhouse, Crofton.
 (this is on line within communities.northumberland.gov.uk web site , Blyth section, "Printed Material".)

~~~~~~~~---

On Burials.....

From my wee book "The History of Blyth" by Blyth man John Wallace,  second edition, published 1869 . he writes (page 35) ...

 "  An examination I have been kindly permitted to make of the church registers at Earsdon confirms this view (of his) of the insignificance of Blyth to the end of the C16th, as for several years together there are neither births, marriages nor deaths registered for Blyth "

Then he adds a footnote...

"After the former edition went to press, I discovered that in the first part of the last century (1700s), many Blyth families buried their dead at Horton; no doubt the distance been so much less than to Earsdon, would lead to the practice.  "

He went on to list deaths from "old Blyth families" and added that 1762 marked the year when the churchyard at Blyth was set aside for the dead
(this would have been St Cuthberts, chapel of ease from mother church at Earsdon)
~~~~~~~~--

Michael
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Thursday 19 November 09 00:01 GMT (UK)
Interesting stuff - I wish I had an old history of Blyth, mine are all recently written and not quite as informative as this.

This wee chap was born and died in 1825 and I did wonder why he wasn't buried at St. Cuthberts - much closer than either Earsdon or Horton though there are a few burials at Horton from South Blyth.  Maybe St. Cuthberts didn't accept anyone from the Poor House!  I wonder whether Horton had a pauper's grave section whereas the others didn't?

Christine
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: Michael Dixon on Thursday 19 November 09 00:43 GMT (UK)
  C . I think Blyth Library have a plan of Horton Church graveyard.
Michael
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Thursday 19 November 09 20:03 GMT (UK)
I'll check that out next time I am there - probably next week

C
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: Michael Dixon on Thursday 19 November 09 20:09 GMT (UK)
C-,

If possible can you have a quick gander to see which building was the Poor/Work house in the Crofton area  (to lay within Earsdon Parish it must have been on what is now the right-hand side of Plessey Road(from a Horton direction))

Michael
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Thursday 19 November 09 20:24 GMT (UK)
Good idea - they do have some good maps down there.  Crofton as far as I know it, Robert Street etc., was actually north of Plessey Rd. - I'm not even sure whether Plessey Road was there in 1825 - can't tell from my 1897 map which ends just below what would now be Princess Louise Road.

Now I'm rambling - I should wait till I've looked at what they have at the library!  I'll report back.

C
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: Michael Dixon on Thursday 19 November 09 20:44 GMT (UK)
C_

I am busy here browsing through my stuff, including lots, maps, notes etc, I copied when I used to sit in that dusty corner, upstairs in Blyth Library, a few years ago.

The Plessey Road of today lies on top of the old Plessy/Plessey Waggonway
(Plessy>Bog Houses(Wway still visible)>Three Horse Shoes>Plessey Roadetc)

The Horton/Earsdon border was the waggonway until Crofton, then it turned left/northwards (Wway continued to river edge- close to Dun Cow) along the line of the Gut .( Union Street marks where the Gut was.)

 Robert St would have lain in Woodhorn territory, Crofton Pit head on the otherside of Plessey Road/Plessy Waggonway would have been in Earsdon territory.

Maps in Blyth Library show boundaries of Horton Parishes five townships, and lots more.   Some of the maps in the Blyth section of Northumberland Communities site... show the Horton/Earsdon boundary as a dotted line running as I described above.


Michael
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Monday 23 November 09 23:38 GMT (UK)
Been to the library - in the same corner though not so dusty these days.

I have to admit I’m puzzled as there are no buildings showing on the south side of Plessey Rd at the appropriate time except for Crofton Pit.  These are hand drawn maps so I suppose he could have decided to miss off the workhouse but it’s unlikely.

One map, however, appeared to have the parish boundary to the north of Crofton village and I wondered whether there might have been a discrepancy between the UD boundary shown on the OS maps and the original parish boundaries.  If so there are some buildings where Robert Street was eventually built which could be suitable candidates.

Next stop Woodhorn on Wednesday!

Darn it!  I've just spotted the reference to the cemetery plan for Horton and realised that I forgot to look.  Wish I had a memory ::)

Christine
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Monday 23 November 09 23:47 GMT (UK)
Thought I'd just add for general interest - I discovered a couple of fat folders full of transcriptions of matters to do with Tynemouth Workhouse Union - Blyth was the other workhouse in the union.  Too many to read today but one item stood out - dated 29 June 1837

“The Board deem it expedient that the Workhouse at Blyth should not any longer be used as a union workhouse.  The Tynemouth Workhouse being considered amply sufficient….”
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: Michael Dixon on Monday 23 November 09 23:56 GMT (UK)


 Christine,

 Looking again at the maps on Communities website....   1828 map, 1860  6" and 1987  6" version show border as dotted line

The 1828 shows it clearly up by Low Horton, then coming along Plessy waggonway (Plessey Rd) then gets harder to follow...

The later maps show the border running thru the middle of the Gut (Union St)

So the 1837 cessation date gives reason why I could not find the Blyth Poorhouse/Workhouse on the 1841 census ( but I suppose the building that was used would have still stood)

If you bump into Keith at Woodhorn (staff) bend his ear- helpful lad help design the Communities website and I think the maps !

Michael
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Tuesday 24 November 09 00:49 GMT (UK)
The border on the 1897 OS definitely goes along the Wagonway, putting Crofton Village in Horton parish but the map I saw today takes the border from the bottom of Union Street (ish), loops it around the north of Crofton and links it back onto the Wagonway a little further west putting it in Earsdon

Good idea asking Keith - if I spot him!

Christine
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: Michael Dixon on Tuesday 24 November 09 00:55 GMT (UK)
C

There was a note in Blyth library, in amongst all the bits that said and showed the border continuing along Gut (Union St) then across where the bridge was ( Hedley Young shop to Bus Station, then through where Gasometer was to be, then into the river.  Putting everything right of Post Office into Earsdon... sorry that wasn't very clear....

M
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Tuesday 24 November 09 19:11 GMT (UK)
No arguments from me on the boundary - in fact there is a map on the wall behind me as I 'speak' which shows it clearly.  The puzzle is that if the poor house was in Crofton and in South Blyth then it should be somewhere beside Crofton Pit and there is no such building to be seen.

Someone at Woodhorn might know - fingers crossed.

C
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: Michael Dixon on Tuesday 24 November 09 19:43 GMT (UK)
C  Yes needing to find a suitable building in Criofton community and lying within Earsdon Parish.

Looking at my 1860 Ordnance Survey map, the streets that make a rough square of "Crofton" ( Crofton Terrace, York Terrace, Crofton St, Robert St) lie on the Horton Parish side of the border line( And I can't see a candidate for an "Official building).. but the Public Slaughter Houses are adjacent and in Earsdon territory.

Of course the purpose of whatever building was the Poorhouse/Workhouse, would have changed after 1837!

Can you see what type of buildings were in Stanley St South.  Would you deem that to be in Crofton ?

Michael
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Tuesday 24 November 09 22:35 GMT (UK)
It's all a question of timing - we know it was there in 1825 which is way before Stanley Street South or any of the others were built - only the Roperies were in that location back then.

Even Crofton Pit was still a corn mill and I don't think Robert Street etc. were there then.  Lots of wide open spaces and not many buildings!

C
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Wednesday 25 November 09 22:46 GMT (UK)
I think I’ve had most of the Woodhorn staff from the top down involved in this today!  I’ve looked at the earliest OS maps but these are really too recent for the purpose so I resorted to the 1840 Tithe map.  At that time there were no buildings in the area concerned.  The only reference to be found in a trade directory (1820) was to Brodie Adam (or is it Adam Brodie?) but no address was given.

So I’ve been doing a bit of lateral thinking.  What if the reference to South Blyth is erroneous - perhaps a mistaken view that it is the area south of the river Blyth?  There are a few candidates in the buildings of Crofton in Horton Parish and Horton was also part of Tynemouth Poor Law Union.  Just to make sure I’ll check out the Tithe map for Cowpen Township next week.

 There was a suggestion that the Ridley estate papers might shed some light but I did not have time for this today.  Also, as I was leaving, Keith mentioned someone who is working on some papers from Tynemouth union and is extracting references to Blyth Workhouse.  I have to remind him next week about this.

All is not totally lost then but it is proving to be a very elusive place.
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: Michael Dixon on Wednesday 25 November 09 22:54 GMT (UK)
 C-  Well done.... you might get a medal for this- might ! lol

 It was Brodie Adam--- quite a few references to him in Newcastle Courants, but in other bits of Northumberland.

Michael
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Thursday 26 November 09 00:56 GMT (UK)
C- Well done.... you might get a medal for this- might ! lol

Michael

A mention in dispatches will suffice - or maybe I should just settle for a mention on Rootschat  ;D

Christine
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: Michael Dixon on Thursday 26 November 09 11:32 GMT (UK)


 OOPS !

 He was ADAM BRODIE, not Brodie Adam as I initially said.  Parson & White 1827 and Pigots 1828/29 both have Brodie Adam as Governor of Workhouse at Crofton (within the "Blyth and Neighbourhood" section). A name above him was Annett which I took to be a first name, but it was a surname... so what I took to be Brodie Adam was Brodie Adam!

Michael
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: Michael Dixon on Thursday 26 November 09 22:14 GMT (UK)


 I popped into Newcastle Library this afternoon.  Saw Adam Brodie as governor of workhouse in trade directory of 1822.

Unfortunately there is a period 1806-1821 where no directories are on the shelves.  Incidentally the directories around late 1820s have him as gov of Crofton Workhouse- not described as " Blyth or South Blyth workhouse"

Michael
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Friday 27 November 09 00:12 GMT (UK)
There's a shortage of directories for that same period at Woodhorn too.

The reference to Crofton Workhouse is interesting - from my investigations on Wednesday I'd say that there was only one Crofton in the 1820s - the one in Horton parish.

Let's see what turns up next Wednesday!

Christine
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Wednesday 02 December 09 23:39 GMT (UK)
I've spent a very interesting afternoon at Woodhorn - fruitless but interesting!

There is no obvious reference in the index to the Ridley papers so I decided to look at the leases for South Blyth 1816 - 1823.  All were for the original settlement and show the emergence of a community.  Leases for an Epsom Salts Manufactury, Brewery Malting, a Blockmakers shop and a chapel for the Calvanistic Dissenters as well as dwellings and sundry shops.  Nothing whatsoever for anything outside that area.

I'll ask around my contacts at local history society next week but those I have already spoken to have never heard of the place.

Other than that I'm giving up until after Christmas - they tell me it's almost here!

Christine
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Wednesday 02 December 09 23:41 GMT (UK)
Oops, meant to mention that I also looked at the Tithe map for Cowpen township - no potential building to be seen

C
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: Michael Dixon on Thursday 03 December 09 00:38 GMT (UK)


 C-,

 I have read (somewhere in last week- can't remember where ! ) that Earsdon's township  of Hartley also had a poorhouse.

No dont worry, this is not another commission for you lol.

Michael
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Thursday 03 December 09 18:46 GMT (UK)
I can't recall ever seeing a reference to that before - and Earsdon parish records used to be my constant companion!

It doesn't seem to have formed part of Tynemouth Union that I've read.

I'm pleased it's not another commission  ;D but if I see anything about it I'll take notes!

C
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: Michael Dixon on Thursday 03 December 09 21:09 GMT (UK)


 c-

 Have you seen the chunk of info about Northumberland's Workhouses
( within the Northumberland section of GenUKI) ?

 In the Tynemouth section it lists the 31 Townships that comprised the Tynemouth Union... including Blyth South, Newsham, and Hartley and the others. Also lists the Relieving Officers for each "district" of the Union
( Earsdon was most northerly district)

m
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Friday 04 December 09 01:32 GMT (UK)
I think that's where I discovered that Cowpen was also included in Tynemouth Union.

Genuki is usually my first stop if I need to know anything about Northumberland or Durham - the other counties are not so well set up.

C
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Saturday 16 January 10 00:35 GMT (UK)
Better late than never!

I was talking to a local historian a couple of days ago who says that he was told Crofton Poor House was in one of the buildings behind the Masons Arms.

Christine
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: Michael Dixon on Wednesday 20 January 10 23:13 GMT (UK)

Christine,

 I am still "after" the Crofton Poor House, although it has been on my backburner- until today, when at Woodhorn CRO, I bumped into a Blyth acquaintence- a bit older than me, who can remember the building- wooden he says- on Coomassie Rd/Plessey Road, adjacent to Masons Arms and close to where Crofton Working Men's Social Club was !

Michael
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: c-side on Wednesday 20 January 10 23:44 GMT (UK)
That ties in, more or less, with what I was told last week.

I don't remember it but even if it was still there when I was young I doubt if I'd have known what it was.

Coincidentally 30 years ago I lived on that section of Plessey Road between Coomassie Road and Union Street!

Christine
Title: Re: Crofton Poor House
Post by: Jennie Greenwell on Thursday 24 March 22 13:17 GMT (UK)
I don’t know if this is any help as I don’t know the area at all- live on the other side of the world - and have just started family research but my great great great grandfather was Adam Brodie who was down as being the Overseer of the Poor House in the baptism records of his first 6 children 1826-1835. All the baptisms took place at Horton but his residence was Crofton.