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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Derbyshire => Topic started by: cjl on Sunday 22 November 09 18:10 GMT (UK)
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I wonder if there is anyone who might be able to help me break down a brick wall I have come to in my research.
I know that my great, great, great grandfather George Petts was born in about 1820 in Alderwasley Derbyshire. He moved to Yorkshire sometime between 1851 and 1861.
I know from his marriage certificate that his fathers name was also George, but have had no luck either locating a baptism record for George Junior or tracing this line of my family tree any further back in Derbyshire.
I wonder whether someone could advise me where to look for a possible baptism record for George Junior, or give me any ideas on how to progress any further back with my research.
Unfortunately I do not live in Derbyshire, so am having to do most of my research via the internet or by trying to purchase parish registers on cd.
Any help or advice given would be gratefully accepted and appreciated.
Thank you
CJL
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Hi
I had a hunt around for you and found this on another queery board
http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/read/DERBYSGEN/1999-05/0927660778
It looks like this refers to the baptism of 'your' George and his two brothers William & Daniel, the children of George Petts & Mary (nee Barker)
I have found the youngest Daniel in the 1841 census in the house of Daniel Petts aged 70 a farmer, I suspect this would be his grandfather and therefore the grandfather of 'your' George.
The Alderwasley registers do not seem to have been transcribed - so consulting them at Matlock RO may be the only option, though the person who posted the original queery does not seem to have found the elder Daniel in
them.
Anyway - hope this helps
:)
DebbieG
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Debbie,
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post and for also doing some searching.
I think that you are right that this may well be my great, great, great grandfather, his parents and siblings.
I just need to find a baptism record to confirm this. I think my only option is to try and contact Matlock Records Office and see whether they can look up the baptisms of the three brothers and also possibly the marriage of their parents.
I will take a look and see whether they do look ups and what cost is involved.
Many thanks for your help.
Best Wishes
CJL
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Hi,
Would do a lot of checking re the Christening places quoted, i.e there was NO church at Belper Lane End.
There is such a place, very near to Alderwasley and Belper.
Because of the Alderwasley connection, I did wonder if this report taken from the Derby Mercury, published
25th April 1821 could be the death of George Petts Snr?
Derby Mercury 25.4.1821
On Monday se'nnight, an inquest was held at the Bull's Head, Belper Lane End, on the body of a man of
the name of Petts, a keeper to F. Hurt Esq., of Alderwasley. He had shot at a rabbit, which ran into a hole
in a rock, and as he was attempting to follow it, a large stone came down upon his head, and crushed it
in so dreadful a manner, that he died immediately.
Spendlove
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Spendlove,
Thank you for taking an interest in my post regarding my Petts family. I am afraid that I have not as yet been able to make any further progress in finding my Petts family in Derbyshire.
I did take a look at the link in the post which Debbie very kindly found for me, but have not been able to find any conclusive sources to verify that this is my Petts family.
Could you advise me of which areas to search for possible christening records for George based on where he was born and also where I might locate any possible christening records. Living in Yorkshire my searching is restricted to the internet and any possible parish records which I might be able to purchase either in booklet form or on cd.
Thank you also for the details from the newspaper article. I don't know whether it relates to my Petts family as yet, but will certainly keep the details of the article just in case I ever break down this brick wall.
This is the information which I have, George Petts was born in about 1820 in Alderwasley, Derbyshire, although on the 1861 census his place of birth is recorded as Hallslee, Derbyshire. Not being very familiar with areas in Derbyshire, I put this down to a Yorkshire enumerator having as limited knowledge of Derbyshire as I have and recording Alderwasley as Hallslee, could I be wrong?
I have a copy of George Petts marriage certificate. He married Ann Blackham in Duffield on the 20th September 1840. Ann was born in Duffield.
On the marriage certificate, George's fathers name is recorded as George and George seniors occupation is recorded as a labourer. On the marriage certificate George senior is not recorded as being deceased, although I know that this does not necessarily mean that he was still alive at the time of his sons marriage.
George Petts junior is living in Ironville, Alfreton in 1841 and appears to live in Alfreton until at least 1857 going by the place of birth recorded for some of their children in later cenusus'.
Just to add to my confusion my great, great grandfather, who was their eldest child gives his place of birth as Codnor Park on three out of five census records.
By 1861 the family have moved to Headlingley in Yorkshire and then to Wakefield where George died in 1866.
I would appreciate any help that you or anyone else could give me in tracing my Petts family further back in Derbyshire.
Very Best Wishes
CJL
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Hi,
Looking in the Derby Mercury for the name George Petts, I see that there are 7 entries.
In 1870, a George Petts was elected into the Barmote Court for the Soke and Wapentake of Wirksworth.
In 1894, a tailor of Winster called William Ellis sued a George Petts of Stanton Lees, for the non-payment of a wedding suit for his son (George Petts's son). The wedding suit cost £8 5s and 6d!
Later the same year, in Alderwasley a George Petts was one of five men elected as parish councillor. He was again elected as PC in March 1899.
Tom
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Tom,
Thank you for taking an interest in my post and for posting the entries for George Petts in the Derby Mercury.
I will certainly keep these entries. If I every manage to trace George Petts juniors parents and any possible siblings which he may have had, these records could well relate to my family.
Once again thank you for posting the details.
Best Wishes
CJL
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Hello CJL,
Places to search for Bpt of George Petts:-
Crich, Wirksworth, Belper, and possibly Biggin by Hulland. You must remember that not all parish registers
are on the IGI, however you can access Wirksworth at www.wirksworth.org.uk including all Census.
It is also possible that the Petts family were of Independent Faith none of these registers are on the IGI,
so it is necessary to visit Derbyshire County Record Office.
Think your assumption re Hallslee being Alderwasley is correct. You must also remember that George Petts
may have moved to Alderwasley when he was very young and so assumed he was actually born there.
Ann Blackham may have stated she was born in Duffield however my own research into this family, depending
when she was born and who her Father was, suggest she was born in the PARISH of Duffield but the actual
place could be Belper or Heage and again even Wirksworth.
The first Blackham to arrive in this district was Ambrose Blackham Bpt. 3.12.1752 Tipton Staffordshire
he married at Duffield Parish Church, 26th March 1777 Martha Cheetham. (Cheetham Family were from Belper).
they had:-
Joseph 1777 Belper
Ambrose 1778Edward 1779 Belper died 1842 Belper
Mary 1780 possibly Bpt at Tipton Staffs possibly dead bef 1791
Thomas 1784 Belper died abt 1821
Martha 1787 Belper
John 1788 Belper
Sarah 1793 Belper
Mathew 1795 Belper
William 1797 Belper
Millicent 1801 Belper
Most of the above names and dates of birth are from a Removal Order dated 1804, when Ambrose and
some of his younger children were removed from Belper back to the place of his birth Tipton, Staffs.
It is interesting to note that Martha and some of these children later returned to Belper, obviously to be with her
older children who were not subject to the Removal. Martha was buried in St. Peters Church Yard, Belper 13.3.1830/
Agree, George Petts Snr, is named on the Marriage Certificate he could actually be deceased.
Codnor Park is an actual place, near to Alfreton. This name originated from an ancient Deer Park.
I will be away for about a week, but if you would like to send me your e-mail address, I will send
you a copy of the removal order.
Spendlove
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Spendlove,
Thank you so much for replying to my post. I am familiar with the www.wirksworth.org.uk website, which is a brilliant web site, but not had any luck finding George Juniors baptism.
I may have to put going further back with the Petts line of my family tree on the back burner because unfortunately a trip to Derbyshire County Records Office is not something that I will be able to do any time in the foreseeable future.
You mention the Blackham family. I am actually descended from Ambrose Blackham born 1752 Tipton, Staffordshire on two lines of my family tree.
On one line he is my 5 times great grandfather and on the other line he is my 6 times great grandfather.
Here are both my lines.
Ambrose Blackham b 1752 Ambrose Blackham b 1752
Thomas Blackham b 1784 Joseph Blackham b 1777
Ann Blackham b 1821 William Blackham b 1799
Harriett Blackham b 1822
Ann Blackham born 1821 is my 3 times great grandmother and Harriett Blackham born 1822 is also my 3 times great grandmother.
I have managed to find quite a lot of information on the Blackham line of my tree but very little on the Cheetham line.
Thank you for your continued interest in my post. Being in contact with someone who has local knowledge of the area is a great help.
Best Wishes
CJL
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Hello CJL
I live in Derbyshire and go to the RO. I am planning on going in the New Year for my own research. If you can narrow your research to the look ups you would like in the records I'll happily do that for you if you don't have any other luck by then.
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CJL
There is quite a lot of information in the Derby Mercury about the Blackham family, during the 19th century in Belper, quite a lot about an Ambrose Blackham for instance, whether his yours I don't know, one of them in 1858 almost certainly was involved in a rail accident at Tapton. William and Edward Blackham, from Belper, were often in the newspaper for the wrong reason, and another was sent to penal servitude. I am sending you a PM showing how you can access the info-the site also has Leeds Mercury as well.
Tom
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Hi,
All the Blackhams in the Belper, Ambergate, Heage, Wirksworth area originate from the Ambrose born 1752
Staffordshire.
May I make a suggestion re search at Matlock, we have a date for an Inquest about 11.4.1821 (see my
previous post) for a man named Petts. If you look in "Quarter Sessions" there should be Expenses Claims
submitted by Coroners these usually give the place of inquest, and full name of victim.
Think the file you want is:-
Charnel Bateman Q/AF/8/8 1820 - 1832
However if you give the details re inquest in my previous post, Matlock should be able to assist with where
to find info.
If the person who was killed was a George Petts, there may be other info as to age, wife etc., with this
it may be possible to prove if he was the Father of George Petts Jnr born in Alderwasley abt 1821.
If so will save lots of searching through Parish Registers.
Regards
Spendlove
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OK that's where I will start the search at the RO.
I am not planning on going until the New Year so let me know if anything changes before then (such as you don't need the info any more!) .I'll get back to you when I've been
Have a good Christmas
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Wow,
Thank you guys for all your input on my search for my elusive Petts origins in Derbyshire, all your help is very much appreciated.
Nelliedee,
Thank you so much for your very kind offer of looking for records at the records office. I would very much like to take you up on your kind offer. Any help which you can give me would be very greatly appreciated. Other than the information which Spendlove as found regarding the inquest in 1821. The only other information which I know of with any degree of certainty is that my George Petts was born in about 1821 in Alderwasley.
I look forward to hearing from you in the New Year. Hope you have a very Happy Christmas.
Spendlove,
Thank you once again for the time and trouble you are taking to help me with my search for my Petts family. Hopefully Nelliedee will be able to find some record at the record office which will point us in the right direction. Thank you for your very helpful suggestions and if you have any more please keep them coming.
Tom,
Thank you for letting me know about the information in the Derby Mercury Newspaper regarding my Blackham line. From the research I have done so far I do know that this line of my family tree contains some shall we say 'colourful characters.' The one who was sent to penal servitude was the son of my Ambrose Blackham.
Once again thank you so much to all three of you for your interest in my post and also the time and trouble you are taking to help me. It is very much appreciated, as will any further help or suggestions.
Very Best Wishes
CJL
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Hi CJL
Happy New Year
Just to reassure you I have not forgotten your look up. I don't know if you have been to the Matlock RO but it is up a VERY steep hill and I don't fancy tackling it in the current weather. Once it clears a bit I'll get on with it and let you know the outcome
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Nelliedee,
A very Happy New Year to you too.
Thank you for still remembering my request for more information regarding George Petts.
Unfortunately not living in the county I have never been able to visit Matlock RO but wouldn't expect anyone to be attempting to make any journey which isn't absolutely necessary in this atrocious weather which we are having at the moment.
Thank you for offering to still have a look for any records which might be held at Matlock when the weather clears up - lets hope for all of us that it is very soon!!! Although the forecast is not too optimistic for the next few days.
Best Wishes
CJL
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Hi cjl
I have been to the record office at last and found the following stuff - not quite what you hoped for I think but all I could find. I've included sources and the negative outcomes as I have found it helps stop repeated searches of the same stuff
Searched For George Petts abt 1821 Alderwasley.
No church in Alderwasley at that time . Two parishes nearby- Wirksworth and Crich
Wirksworth (microfilm M113) no Petts families in Wirksworth baptisms 1818 – 1826
Crich : Petts family as follows:
Daniel Petts married Mary Storer 1 Dec 1822 he was from Chadwicks Nick and she was from Crich (microfilm M9)
Children: (microfilm M8)
Hannah 30 Oct 1824
Mary June 1827
Ellen 7 March 1830
George 25 May 1833
Also William illegitimate son of Hannah Petts of Crich Common
Another Petts family John and Sarah commenced their baptisms in 1836 and in 1837 they werer living at Whatstandwell bridge very close to Alderwasley. But dates are too late??
I checked the inquest information. No inquests results survive but there are indeed the expenses claims for the coroner. I called up the original document Q/AF/8/8 1820 -1832 and can confirm it said
‘For the same at Alderwasley ?? of the body of George Petts accidentally killed by a stone following a poacher’ dated April 6 1821 claim for £1 -9-0 !!!
I checked the online newspapers to see if there were any reports but there are no copies for the 1820’s at all. But there was a George Petts sworn in as a grand jury member of the Barmote Court Wirksworth on 21 April 1870
And a George Petts of Stanton Lees and a mine agent was sued for the cost of a 3 guinea suit he had ordered for his son as a wedding suit , from William Ellis (Taylor)
regards nelliedee
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Nelliedee,
Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to look for any records relating to my elusive Petts family.
This must have taken you some considerable time and I really appreciate the time and effort you have obviously put into trying to help me.
I will definitely keep a copy of the information which you have found in the hope that one day I can find a record of my great, great, great grandfather George Petts' baptism which will hopefully help me find out more about his father and also the name of his mother and any siblings which he may have had.
Once again thank you so much for all the effort you have put into trying to help me.
Best Wishes
CJL
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Hi cjl
Pleasure to help - I like looking! I forgot to add that I looked at the indexes to the Estate mentioned at Alderwasley the Hurt Estate. Unfortunately there were no records for estate workers apparent. It was all to do with inheritance, wills, marriage settlements etc - very interesting but no help to you!
I have just been looking on the curious fox website and someone has mentioned another church (non c of e) in the area and I am kicking myself for not checking for any non conformist churches in the area! Sorry.
Next time I go I'll check to make sure.
regards nelliedee
ps I got my reward - when looking up the newspaper stuff I found an article about one of 'my' Han(d)burys thsat told me about his death......very sad but very exciting. So thanks to you for your help ;D
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Hi Nelliedee,
I am really pleased that you managed to find something in the newspaper articles which was of some help to you.
I would really appreciate you taking a look at the non-conformist registers if you have the time. I have taken a look at the non conformist registers which are available on www.bmdregisters.co.uk but didn't have any luck in my search for George's baptism. Although I do not know how extensively Derbyshire is covered on that website.
Once again thank you for you offer of help, it is very much appreciated.
Best Wishes
CJL
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I am rsearching the Petts family tree and you possibly have relatives in derbyshire
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Hi Cheecky face (love the name)
A very warm welcome to Rootschat. I am very excited at finding someone else who is researching the Petts family.
I would be interested in comparing research if you are willing to. Hopefuly we could then see whether there is a connection between our two families.
Best Wishes
CJL
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There was an Hilda Wragg who married a man called Petts in Bakewell, Derbyshire. now i know of 4 brothers from that marriage. the parents separated and the mother died young. the sons were adopted by an aunt. i have the info somewhere and will look it out. all the brothers were given three christian names because their mothers maiden name was incorporated in to that. from what i remember one brother became an electrical contractor, but died in 1998. do you live far away from bakewell?
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Hi Cheecky Face,
Thank you for replying to my post. I do not live in Derbyshire, I live in Yorkshire. My line of the Petts family left Derbyshire sometime in the 1850's.
Please don't post the names or details of any living or recently deceased person on the forum. Rootschat's policy is to remove such post in order to protect people.
Hope to hear from you again.
Best Wishes
CJL
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morning cji,
I am new to rootschat so do not know the rules yet.
If you look on the 1911 census you willl find a
Harry Petts who came from yorkshire and he married hilda ann inkley wragg. he was a stone mason. you will also find a list of their children on the same page. i know that i am related to this family. hope this helps.are you allowed to mention all about past people by name from the 1911 census? Also are you allowed to mention any other anceters who moved abroad, its all very confusing.
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Cheecky face,
I have sent you a personal message.
Best Wishes
CJL
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do not know harrys father name, but have following info as follows.
harry petts born born yorkshire. stone mason builder. aged 32
married to hilda ann inkley wragg aged 26. born crichmarried 5 years. so must have got married 1906/07.
children son lancelot george leonard petts. aged 4 crich.
harry ivor inkley born alderwasley aged 2
lionel john charles aged 3 born alderwasley.
address on 1911 census bury hill cottage alderwasley. do not know of any desmond. there was another son adopted by an aunt.
if you are related there is other wragg family members which i have names of. also other family connections would be alsop. its interesting that harry was born in yorkshire.
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harry petts born in bradford. this rootsweb is still new to me so canno always find right message to reply to.i always go to search or forum to get access to your messages, but not sure if this is correct way to reply. so hoping you get this reply.
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Cheecky Face,
To send me a personal message click on my user name (cjl) which appears on the left hand side of the screen.
You will then see my personal profile and near the bottom of the page is the option to send a personal message, click on that and you should then be able to view the screen which enables you to type a personal message to me.
Have not as yet made a connection to Harry Petts born in Bradford. My line of the Petts family went from Derbyshire to Wakefield.
Best Wishes
CJL
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I have hit the same brick wall
Have you made any progress since posting this message that you can share with me ?
I have a guess as to George's ancestors - but no proof.
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Hi Spendlove
Thank you - I found the article from the Derby Mercury 25-04-1821 very useful.
On the marriage certificate of Daneil Petts to Mary Fox, his father George Petts occupation is "Gamekeeper".
I consider this Daniel to be the brother to George Petts of 1819...
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DebbieG provided a link to George Petts and his brothers William and Daniel
Their baptisms can also be found on familysearch.org under IGI-C046801 but William is Pett - George is Potts and Daniel is Petts.
I think I also found them with this site
http://www.belper-research.com/IGIBatchNumbers/records-index.html
You may find it useful for other family members in Derbyshire
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hi cji,
I think e must have been in touch b4 as I was researching the Petts family and I have found out more information if you would like it concerning people and places
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Hi Cheecky Face,
I think we have been in touch before. I am afraid that I haven't made any further progress with breaking down my brick wall regarding the parents of George Petts.
Carnival Carol has also contacted me and we are looking at this together. Possibly between the three of us we can finally break down this brick wall.
I would welcome any information which you are kind enough to share with me.
Best Wishes
CJL
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Please can you send me a personal message as can then give you more information that I have at the moment
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Hi - I've just started researching my family tree & am new to this forum & how it works. My father was an Edward Petts and his family lived around the Barnsley/Wakefield area. My mother is still alive and has furnished me with a certain amount of information going back as far as she can remember. I must admit I'm struggling and have some anomolies. Could we open up a dialogue and maybe we can help each other?
Kind regards.
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Wends1964
I very warm welcome to Rootschat. I would be more than happy to help you in anyway that I can with your Petts family research. You never know we may even find a connection between our two families :)
If you could give me a little more information i.e. names and dates of birth (not for anyone who is still living) I will try my best to assist you in any way that I can.
Best Wishes
CJL
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Hi
I've taken the plunge and started my husbands family history on the Petts line from Derby :)
My hubby is the great grandson of George Henry (junior) who married Sarah ann Marsh in Leeds, they had a son called Ernest who is my husbands grandfather.
Ernest, along with his employer and other employees moved to Shropshire around 1920's where he married Mildred, who was another employee that had moved with Ernest from Huddersfield at the time.
If there are any other descendants of George senior and Rosanna (various spellings on the census) I would be happy for you to get in touch perhaps together we can extend the Petts line.
Thankyou for reading :)
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I will be away for about a week, but if you would like to send me your e-mail address, I will send
you a copy of the removal order.
Spendlove
Hi, I'm also researching Ambrose Blackham. Could you tell me where I can see the removal order from 1804/1805 ? I'm a new user so can't seem to send messages, but if you message me I can provide my email address. Thanks
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I will be away for about a week, but if you would like to send me your e-mail address, I will send
you a copy of the removal order.
Spendlove
Hi, I'm also researching Ambrose Blackham. Could you tell me where I can see the removal order from 1804/1805 ? I'm a new user so can't seem to send messages, but if you message me I can provide my email address. Thanks
Got it now...thanks !