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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: blackcountry man on Tuesday 24 November 09 12:29 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone,
My x4 Grt Grandfather was William Dingley born 1755 who lived in Halesowen, Worcestershire and according to the information I've found on the IGI and other peoples family trees was related to the gentry family of Dineley/Dingley from Cropthorne as follows:
Francis Dingley born 1550, Cropthorne, Worcestershire (had lots of children)
Phillip Dingley born 1611, Cropthorne, Worcestershire
Richard Dingley born 1651, Cropthorne, Worcestershire
Edward Dingley born 1688, Alvechurch, Worcestershire
Edward Dingley born 1731 Barston, Warwickshire
William Dingley born 1755, Barston, Warwickshire (moved to Halesowen with Robert Dingley who was a possible brother from Barston)
I'm wondering if anyone else is researching the same family and would like to contact me to share information. I'm not convinced William is related because he wasn't wealthy and was a Nailor by profession but it maybe correct because his line came from the younger children of the family.
Kind regards
Adrian
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Hi Adrian
Ive done a look up of my MI fiche for Cropthorne but its to much to type out on these pages as Im limited to time by the library (whose computers I use - if you let me have your e mail address I'll send it to you as an attachment (which Ive already typed out) my addy is (*)
All the very best
Phil
ps I shant check my e mails again till SAT
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Hi Again Adrian
have you tried lookin at Ancestry world tree, as someone on it is researching the same line of Dingley as yourself - her e mail addresss on world tree is * - I have replied to a lot on world tree but as yet noone has replied to my e mails, I would think that these addresses are well out of date but its worth a try
All the very best
Phil
Weston-super-Mare born Worcester City
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Hi Blackcounry Man
I've only recently discovered that I'm related to the Dingley/Dingley family. My g g grandmother was Jane Dineley b 1825, daughter of James Dineley. The name changed over the years but I have received lots of information on the family from a Neil Cole and a lady in the USA. This morning we went over to Cropthorne Church where we found the tomb of Francis and Elizabeth Dineley who had 19 children! Do you know who you are directly related to?
Jennie ;D
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Hi Jennie,
I'm sorry I haven't been in contact sooner but I've been so busy working over the Xmas period.
I'm not 100% sure I do have a connection but my x4Grt Grandmother was Nancy Ann Dingley who was the daughter of William Dingley (born I think Barston, Warwickshire in 1755) and moved with his brother Robert to live in Halesowen, Worcestershire. William also had a very large family (15 children) and according to a few other peoples family trees they've traced his family:
Francis Dingley born 1550, Cropthorne, Worcestershire
Phillip Dingley born 1611, Cropthorne, Worcestershire (youngest son of Francis)
Richard Dingley born 1651, Cropthorne, Worcestershire ( son of Phillip)
Edward Dingley born 1688, Alvechurch, Worcestershire (son of Richard)
Edward Dingley born 1731 Barston, Warwickshire (son of Edward)
William Dingley born 1755, Barston, Warwickshire (son of Edward)
However the information isn't sourced so I'm not convinced and was hoping someone had the same connection that had been sourced.
I've been caught out before trusting other peoples information only to disprove it after many hours of wasted research.
Kind regards
Adrian
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Hi Adrian
If you take a look at www.goodbytree.com and look for the list of Dineley names you will see that there are very many of them. However I've checked and none of your names match from what I can see. However, if you do a Google check of Dineley or Dingeley and Cropthorne there is much information to be found. Only in the last 2 months have I been contaced by 2 ladies in the USA and a chap in the UK and they are definitely related. In the 14 years I've been researching my tree I have only just discovered that my Jane Lineley was in fact a Dineley - a misspelling by the GRO when sending me a certificate!
Best wishes
Jennie
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Hi Jennie,
Thank you for your reply.
I also checked the link you gave and none of my Dingleys seem to appear so who knows.
Due to the large families these early Dingleys had I wouldn't be surprised that the Dingleys from Halesowen were related somehow.
The problem is how to prove it :D
All the best for the New year and many thanks for your help.
Regards
Adrian
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Hi
I am reseaching this family and have Henry Dingley married to Joanne Pitt of Kyre Park. Henry's first wife was Mary Neville dau of Sir Edward Neville and Eleanor Windsor.
What set me off on this search was Violetta Dingley ba.1757 dau of James Dingley of Ripple, Worcs and any further information on this family would be wonderful.
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Hi,
It was smashing to hear from another potention Dingley family member and considering how many children these early Dingleys had I'd imagine there's lots.
I think you may have got confused or I have because in your post you state 'I am researching this family and have Henry Dingley married to Joanne Pitt of Kyre Park. Henry's first wife was Mary Neville dau of Sir Edward Neville and Eleanor Windsor. Henry who married Joanne Pitt was the Grandson of the Henry who married Mary Neville (so many Henrys :P).
I've tried to find the connection with James Dingley b 1757 Ripple, Worc and the Dingleys of Charlton but with no luck although I've had no better luck attempting to trace my direct line. I think anyone with a Dingley connection around Worcestershire can safely say they're related somehow to the Dingleys of Charlton. The amount of children Francis Dingley had 19 and 15 survived must mean there were lots and lots of Dingleys living around Worcestershire. My direct ancestor William had 12 children and from my research every Dingley in the Halesowen, Tipton and West Bromwich areas can trace their line back to William or his brother Robert.
I've attempted to research the family and from the information I can find they were from good gentry stock and the connection with the Neville family connected them to lots of noble familes. This said I don't think they were a very wealthy family and from the 18th century the family fortunes went into decline which coupled with the large numbers of them could explain why later descendants were not very wealthy.
The problem tracing this family is just the sheer number of them all living close together and sharing the same names ::).
I'll send you my email address by private message if you want to discuss further.
Great to hear from you.
Adrian
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I am yet another Dingley of Cropthorne descendent. My great grandfather was George Dingley born 1854, Charlton, Worcestershire. He Married a Caroline Bott who was formerly Marsden. It was her second marriage. They had three daughters: Ada, Norah, Caroline and Kathleen (known by her middle name: Rose). George was a wheelwright and also has an apple and pear orchard. He sold his apples and pears for cider and also grew and sold asparagus. He was based at Brook Farm in Cropthorne. My mother who is 93 remembers him well. Is anyone else connected to me? I haven't managed to get back further, but family legend abounds about tombs of bloody hands and haunted Charlton Manor with hidden butts of Malmsbury wine.
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I have a George Dingley( 1854) he was the brother of Susannah Dingley from Cropthorne/ Charlton ( she was my husbands 2x great gran)
I've never researched George but I know he was married to a Caroline and had 5 children, 6 if you count a stepdaughter Caroline Alice Bott. Sounds like the same one, if so I can go back a little further. I haven't found the connection to Francis, to be honest I haven't looked but they must be descended from Francis. I have also read stories of murder within the family. There are a fascinating family regardless.
Although when I told my son and husband they were descended from Royalty it took a long time for them to shut up about it. ::) ::)
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Well that's amazing. My grandmother, Rose would have been Susannah's niece. I know there was a stepbrother Bott, so I guess Caroline had at least 2 kids before marrying George. My mother was brough up by Norah Dingley for the first two or three years of her life as my Grandmother, Rose was too involved in getting her husband's business of the ground for kids. I know Norah died of cancer just after WW2. I think she had son(s). My mother used to visit Cropthorne regularly up until Norah died and still has a friend in Pershore with whom she exchanges christmas cards. She recalls the chatter between the women of the family. I have never had any connection with Cropthorne. We are now townie Londoners. My mum has been asking me for some time to look into the Dingley side of the family. I haven't got very far!
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Hi Again Tinav40
Just spoken to my Mum who remembers her (Great) Aunty Sue well. Apparently she had a shed in which she made homemade wine from anything that grew. My Mum recalls mistaking the potions for fruit juices and getting quite damaged as a result when she was about 16. That would have been before WW2. She got quite lost down a long windy memory lane. The inevitable royal connections came up. I think I will have to take her back to Cropthorne in the spring. There is probably nobody left who remembers her there now. But we can visit the Church. She had cousins called Massingham. George Massingham was her cousin. The Massinghams married into the Dingley family. She is particularly interested in the Marsden line of our bit of the Dingley family - Caroline Bott was born Marsden. She was from Tardebigge, but she says there are also Cropthorne Church wardens listed with that name. I wonder if your husband has elderly family members with memories of Cropthorne? They should be documented really, before they are lost forever. I wonder if there is a local preservation society.... Kind regards.
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Wow!!
Hi again.
Guess who my father -in -laws grandad was? Harry Massingham. He married Susannah Dingley's daughter.
Tina
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Just checked ( in case I was wrong) George Massingham was my father-in-laws uncle.
I think we should get in touch.
Tina
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I think I have worked out how to send you a personal message. Let me know if you have received it!
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Hi Grace
Message recieved OK
All the very best
Phil
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Hello,
There were originally 3 main branches of the Dingley/Dyngley/Dineley/Dyneley family. All are centred on a relatively small area of Lancashire around Clitheroe and Clivager (Burnley) in the 13th Century. There is no definitive link between the 3, but they are likely to come from the same stock. To confuse matters there were also a small number based in Dingley, Northamptonshire who cannot be tied to the 3 main branches and may, or may not, be the original source of the families.
Of the three one (most commonly appearing as Dyneley) remained in the north (predominantly Lancashire and Yorkshire) and last existed in the 18th -19th Century as Dyneley of Bramhope.
A second line migrated to Hampshire (Wolverton and the Isle of Wight). They were most commonly called Dingley.
The third moved to Charlton Manor in the Parish of Cropthorne, Worcestershire. From these another minor branch was founded on inherited lands in Kent. These were originally most commonly called Dyngley/Dingley, but the name Dineley was adopted from the 17th Century onwards by the main branch (which maled out and resulted in the departure of the family from Charlton after 400 years) and the branch that took on the Manor of Peopleton, Worcestershire until the middle of the 19th Century. The Hampshire and Worcestershire lines share the same Coat of Arms. The Bramhope one differs very slightly.
To confuse things further a branch of Dingleys appeared a little later in Cornwall and at least some of them migrated to Worcestershire/West Midlands. This may be an off-shoot from the Hampshire or Worcestershire lines, or a bastardisation of the name Dingle in the 15th/16th Centuries in Cornwall. Nothing is proven, but families tend to want to claim alliance to the Worcestershire branch due to their Royal descent.
Thus, if you are of Dineley descent you can most likely trace your line through the myriad of Josiah Dineley's children born in Peopleton in the 18th Century.
If you are a Dingley you have a problem. I do not know of any Dingley who has been able to categorically prove that they descend from the Charlton Dingleys. The line reproduced above is conjectural at the point of Edward Dingley (I'm not saying it is wrong, just that it has not been definitively proven by anyone I have come across who claims the link). There remains the possibility that a Dingley may have come into Worcestershire from a minor line originating in Cornwall and less likely from Hampshire or Kent.
That said there have been Dingleys recorded throughout the Parish Records in Worcestershire since the mid-sixteenth Century, especially around the Evesham/Pershore area and I would find it very surprising if you are not descended.
One other thing. The Henry Dingley that married Joan Pitt was the grandson of the Henry Dingley that married Mary Neville, via Francis Dingley and Elizabeth Bigge. Francis was Henry's eldest son and Henry was Francis' eldest surviving son, who died before his father, so Henry's eldest son Edward took over the estate on the death of his grandmother Elizabeth in the 1632. It is Francis and his grandson Edward who have the memorials in Cropthorne Church. Joan Pitt's father paid Francis Dingley £1,000 for the marriage of his daughter to Francis' eldest son.
I know a lot more about the Dineley descent from Dingleys in Worcestershire than I do about the Dingley ones, but I'm happy to share what I know on the wider expanse of the name.
Neil
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... but family legend abounds about tombs of bloody hands and haunted Charlton Manor with hidden butts of Malmsbury wine ......
I would be interested to hear of your family legends as I may be able to point you to the original stories, or they may help shed some light on throw away statements I have come across in my research.
The tombs of bloody hands probably relates to 'The Ruby Tragedy'. One brother (a naval Captain) killed his brother over the inheritance and was hanged. Both are in Crypt in Cropthorne.
http://www.worcesterpeopleandplaces.com/articles/20050630190505.asp
The wine vats are also interesting as I have read of a supposed link between the Dingleys to smuggling, although there is no evidence of it anywhere.
Neil
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Hi Neil,
Many thanks for your post which I found very interesting and informative.
I agree that for my particular family connection the main concern is Edward Dingley and to be honest the family links recorded from William Dingley (Halesowen, Worcestershire) back to Francis from Cropthorne is taken from other peoples family trees. These family trees are totally unsourced which immediately aroused my suspicious and it seemed to me that everyone copied their trees from each other.
I may never be able to trace my Dingley line back fully because William Dingley's place of birth doesn't seem to have been recorded on any documents. He appears on the 1841 census which stated he was born in County (Worcestershire) and his brother Robert Dingley who also lived in Halesowen, Worcestershire and is also listed born in County (Worcestershire) on the 1841 census. I can find no other Dingleys living in Halesowen prior to Robert and William but they had big familes and there are lots and lots of us around the Halesowen area today. William alone married twice and had 12 children and Robert wasn't that far behind his brother :P
I had never considered the Dingle connection from Cornwall which is food for thought and I'm going to do some research on that possibility. I will be just as pleased if I'm related to the Dingles of Cornwall and that will be a first to trace members of my family outside of Staffordshire, Worcestershire and Shropshire ;D
Interestingly I've found a number of Dingley families living in Cropthorne, Worcestershire over the years?
Kind regards
Adrian
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Hi all!
I am quite interested in this family. My initial research shows I am descended from Sarah Dingley (my 8 g grandmother), who it appears is the great granddaughter of Francis Dingley and Elizabeth (Bigge) Dingley.
I am hoping to find documentation, confirming Francis and Elizabeth married and were parents of John (married Sarah [perhaps Chillingworth]) who emigrated to Lynn, Massachusetts (before it was USA) in 1635.
They were the parents of Jacob who married Elizabeth Newton in Marshfield, Massachusetts. And they were the parents of Sarah.
I have some info that states Elizabeth was the daughter of Thomas and born in Lench wick, Norton, Worcestershire.
Can anyone confirm this or tell me where I can find some documentation on it?
Any dates that can get filled in for me is much appreciated.
Your American "cousin"
Kimm
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Kimm,
Sorry to disapoint you, but link between John Dingley of Marshfield and Francis Dingley in Charlton is a myth started by a book written by an Edward Nelson Dingley. Francis did have a son called John, but he was baptised in Cropthorne Church on 1st September 1594. There has also been some misrepresentation of John's marriage and his death, the extract below should give you some further information. You will see that the correct identification of his death would have made him a highly unlikely 95 years if he had been the son of Francis Dingley and Elizabeth Bigge. I have also seen a reference to a private conversation in which Edward Dingley admits he has no evidence for the connection he made.
For what it is worth, the only other suggestion for the origins of John of Marshfield that I have come across (although I have not found the reference) is that a John Dingley of Boston, Lincolnshire applied for permission to go abroad at around the correct time period.
Let me know if you need anything else.
Neil
DINGLEY, JOHN – John Dingley may have resided earlier at Lynn (Moore Families, p.227), but he first appears in Plymouth records at Sandwich on 4 December 1638, when he was fined ten shillings for being defective in arms, and was also presented for keeping two hogs unringed (PCR 1:107). On 16 April 1640 he was granted five and one-half acres of meadow lands allotted at Sandwich (PCR 1:149). On 5 June 1644 he was chosen constable of Marshfield (PCR 2:72). Since he was on the 1643 ATBA for both Sandwich and Marshfield, it would seem that he moved from the former to the latter about this time. He also served as grandjuror (PCR 2:84, 116, 3:78, 4:37, 91, 148, 5:91), and as a highway surveyor (PCR 2:102, 4:124), and on grand and trial juries (PCR, passim). He became a freeman on 5 June 1644 (PCR 2:71). On 22 October 1650 Richard Church sold Dingley some land in Marshfield, and Dingley was described as a smith (blacksmith) in the deed (PCR 12:197). On 1 November 1679 John Dingley and his fourteen-year-old servant Arthur Loe appeared in court and Arthur convenanted to live with Dingley and his wife as an apprentice and servant until he became twenty-one (PCR 6:25). Administration of Dingley’s estate, dated 18 March 1689/90, shows that he was survived by son Jacob, and Jacob’s son Joseph; Sarah, the wife of William Ford; and Hannah, the wife of Josiah Keane (PN&Q 5:92).
His wife has been called Sarah _____________. The accounts of John Dingley’s origins as the son of an armigerous family of Cropthorne, Worcestershire, with several fairly recent royal lines, as given by Edward N. Dingley, Ancestors of Edward N. Dingley (1954), are colourful, but unsupported by evidence and not very logical. Some of the reasons for doubting this Dingley ancestry are given by Eugene A. Stratton, “Search for the English Ancestry of John Dingley”, TAG 56:207; however, this article gives an incorrect surname for Dingley’s wife and the author fell into the mistake made by others, such as Savage and Arthur Adams, of thinking that Dingley died some thirty-one years earlier than he actually did. An updated article by Stratton, “Another Look at John Dingley of Marshfield”, will appear in TAG, 61:234. Moore Families, p. 227-32, gives a well-documented narrative of Dingley’s life and some of his early descendants, and shows that he also had two sons named John who died young, and a daughter Mary, who married Capt. Myles Standish’s son Josiah, but died without issue.
From: Plymouth Colony: Its History and People, Eugene Aubrey Stratton.
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Hi,
There seems to be a few people who know quite a bit about the Dingley family so perhaps someone could help.
My ancestors are the Archers of Welland and Hanley Castle a younger branch of the Archers of Umberslade and during my research I discovered that a Violetta Dingley of Ripple born about 1750, daughter of James of Ripple married John Ballard. Their daughter married a Richard Pitt.
Both the Dingleys and the Pitts are driving me bonkers. I believe that Violetta is a descendant of the Dingleys of Charlton but cannot find the proof. However there are too many links to the Archers and their connected families for it to be pure coincidence.
For example; Sir Francis Egioke married Elinor, daughter of Francis Dyneley of Charlton and their daughter Elizabeth married Philip Bearcroft, linked to the Archers via a marriage. Mercy, daughter of Edward Pitt married Henry Bromley and their son William married Margeret daughter of Sir Richard Berkeley of Cotheridge linked to the Archer family.
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Thanks Neil;
I had a feeling there was no connection because I couldn't find any "real" documentation. I have learned to usually not trust family group sheets, etc. I try to stick to actual historic documents and public and town records. But thought I had a chance to check things out.
So, I'm not too dissappointed. I just shudder at all the misinfo out there and how many people have this connection in family trees and perpetuating it. I spend most of my genealogy time trying to independently document what many people take as gospel. Well my roots are deep in Pilgrim America and England, Ireland, and Wales. So I'm sure I have some English cousins out there somewhere.
Thanks again,
Kimm
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Kimm,
I share your frustration with the internet. On the one hand it offers so many opportunities to uncover new truths and on the other it propogates rubbish. The think I find most amusing/disquieting is the levels some people will go to defend the unfounded.
I admit I have not read the full articles in The American Genealogist (TAG), but you can order back copies from them and make up your own mind. I am sure they will offer you some insights into your line. If I remember correctly they suggest that John's wife Sarah was not a Chillingworth, but was, in fact, someone else,
http://americangenealogist.com/BackIssue.html
I would still strongly suspect that, if you have a Dingley in your tree, that you descend from one of the 3 roots that came from Clivager/Downham/Clitheroe, but proving it is another matter.
Good luck.
Neil
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jidian,
I don't have an answer for you, but we may be able to narrow down some possibilities.
You will need to supply a few more details of dates for the Pitts, as there were several Edwards, but if we start with the Dingleys; this is my current understanding of them as it might relate to your problem,
John Dingley (b.1485-98 - d.1541) was the keeper of Hanley Park in 1511. John had two sons Edward (who is the head of the Dingleys of Kent) and Henry, Lord of the Manor of Charlton and probably the continued interest in Hanley.
Henry had 3 sons Francis (the famous one), George and Henry of Hanley Castle. To my knowledge George had a daughter, Mary, but Henry married twice (Alice Bletchenden and Magdelan Egioke) and by Magdalen had 3 sons Henry, John and William. I have no recorded children for Henry, but William became Colnel William Dingley in the Parliamentary forces in the Civil War and died in 1653, the same year as his son, also called William.
That leaves John, who had two sons, Henry and John. I have no children for Henry, but John had a son John and a daughter Anne. This is my understanding of how the Dingley of Hanley Castle line peters out, but there may have been other children that are not recorded. If that is so, then there should be land transfer records in either Worcestershire or Gloucestershire Records Office that give a hint of it. If not, then James Dingley could have originated from outside of the immediate area. This would then be hard to prove.
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Francis had at least 15 male grandchildren and anyone of these could have migrated to Ripple to take over the land of a bride. It will be hard to establish, unless you can find a marriage record that says James Dingley of .....?
Sorry I cannot be of more help.
Neil
P.S. I have tried typing this response 3 times, only to lose everything I put down by pressing the wrong button, so I have limited myself to the position as I see it, rather than produce the supporting evidence.
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Hi Cherryexile,
Thanks for the information, I hunted out the Will of Violetta's grandfather, James of Ripple, Will dated 1742 and in it he leaves property and land in Ripple, Evesham, Upton Upon Severn and Hanley Castle in Worcester and Bromyard in Herefordshire. His Will also mentions his son James, a daughter Mary and his wife Anne.
There are no Dingleys prior to him in Ripple which begs the question where did he come from, looks like a trip to the Worcester Archives is called for, fortunately there are a few other things I can check while I am there.
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One lead that might be worth pursuing is the descent from Francis Dingley, via his oldest son Henry and his marriage to Joan Pitts, to his grandson Francis.
Francis was born in 1604 and was buried 8th Jun 1675 in London. Francis was married to Elizabeth Cox, daughter of Richard Cox (Cocks) esq. Elizabeth was born in Castleditch, Eastnor, Herefordshire. In the later Visitations this Francis is described as 'of Ridmarley Dabitot'.
Francis and Elizabeth had 3 children I know of, Charles, Richard (d. abt 1673) and James.
Charles married a Frances Lovestead, daughter of John Lovestead, and they had the following children John (b. abt 1660), Charles (b. abt 1662), Elizabeth (b. abt 1666) and Dorothy (b. abt 1672).
James married 1st, Margaret Duston of Upton on Severn and 2nd, Ann Thompson. By one of these women he had a son James. James in turn married an Ann Tandy.
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There is some small level of corroborating evidence of the potential Francis, Henry, Francis, James, James line in the burial records for Ripple which you can get at FreeReg,
http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl
Record Type Burial Date Surname Forename County Place Name Found As
Burials 24 Mar 1683 DINGLEY Margaret Worcestershire Ripple Surname
Burials 13 Jun 1701 DINGLY James Worcestershire Ripple Surname
Burials 07 May 1734 DINGLEY Ann Worcestershire Ripple Surname
Burials 23 Mar 1743 DINGLEY James Worcestershire Ripple Surname
Margaret is given as the wife James Dingley and the death of a James Dingly in 1701 pre-dates your will of 1742, which very likely relates to the burial in 1743 of James Dingley from Holy Green. The 1734 death of Ann is for a daughter of James and Ann Dingley.
IGI gives the following two baptisms,
5. MARY DINGLEY - IGI Gender: Female Christening: 14 SEP 1724 Ripple, Worcester, parents James & Ann
6. JAMES DINGLY -IGI Gender: Male Christening: 31 JAN 1721 Ripple, Worcester, parents James & Ann
Obviously none of this is proof of anything, but it does fit with the descent I outlined earlier.
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I would suggest the Baptism and Marriage Registers for Ripple may show more than is available on IGI and you may want to cast your net a little wider to the surrounding Parishes.
The possibility is that death of Margaret Dingley represented the death of James Dingley's mother (Margaret Duston) and while his father James married again, he died in 1701 (his second wife Ann may have re-married or was buried elsewhere than Ripple and there is a record of an Anne Dingley marrying in Queenhill in Sep 1701). James, the son, inherited land in Ripple, stayed and married Ann Tandy.
There is a Will for a Jacob Dingley, of Ripple, dated 26 Sept 1702 available at Worcester Records Office and an Administratoin and Will for James Dingley of Ripple dated 7 Apr 1781.
Let me know how you get on.
Neil
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Hi Neil,
Thanks very much for the information, it certainly gives me something to work with. Maybe it will poke a hole in my brick wall. I will let you know what I discover.
Jill
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Hi Can does anybody know the link of the Dineley of Cropthone and the Dineley in Ireland i just can not find it.
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Kate,
I have never come across a link although I have come across Doneley and Denley being reported as Dineley. There were Dineleys in Liverpool in the the 19th Century and that could be a source.
If you let me know what the earliest records you know of for Dineley's in Ireland, and which part, I will see if I can back fit them into the families I know of that 'disapear'.
Neil
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Hi Neil
I have Andrew Thompson Dineley he was born in Castleshane co Monaghan in 25 Nov 1845 his father was Josiah Dineley and mother Mary Williams.
I am from Liverpool and my great great grandfather is from ireland. I have been told that we are related to the dingle/dineley of Cropthone.
If you have any information that would great thank you
kate
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Kate,
The earliest record I can find for Dineley in Northern Ireland, is a Death Record for a Josiah Dineley, suggesting a birth date of around 1823, but the nearest match to this that I have is a Josiah baptised in 1820 in Worcestershire. This could be right, but we would need more evidence to be sure. This differs from the date given on IGI reference (Abt 1816) to the Josiah Dineley/Mary Williams marriage in 1840 in Clogher, Ulster Province; but since this is not referenced I wouldn't rely on it.
I cannot find the Birth Record you mention for Andrew Thompson Dineley (although there are several later people of the same name), but I did find this,
Name Frederick William Dynley
Birth date 22 Oct 1873
Birth place Belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Father name Andrew Dynley
Mother name Sarah Shaw
There are also records for a Josiah Dineley and Ellen Jane Duncan having children around the same time. Interestingly, the couple seem to have had a child baptised in Scotland in 1873, so may have moved out of Ireland,
Name Josiah Dineley
Registration district Belfast
Record type DEATHS
Registration date -
quarter and year 1867
Estimated birth year 1823
Age 44
Father Josiah Dineley
Mother Ellen Jane Duncan
Eliza Dineley b. 15 Oct 1865, BELFAST,ANTRIM,IRELAND
Josiah Dineley b.20 Apr 1868, Ireland
Agnes Dineley b.05 Nov 1869, Armagh, Ireland
Herbert Dineley b.26 Jan 1867, BELFAST,ANTRIM,IRELAND
William Dineley b.16 Jul 1871, Ireland
Alfred Dineley b.24 APR 1873, Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland
There is also a record for a Rachel Dineley, giving birth to a Jane McCready in 1866. Together this grouping MAY suggest that your Andrew had siblings called Josiah and Rachel.
Name Jane Macready
Christening place 390, BELFAST, ANT, IRE
Birth date 23 Apr 1866
Birth place Belfast, Ant, Ire
Father name Samuel Macready
Mother name Rachel Dineley
At first site, it seems plausible that the Dineleys that can be found in Northern Ireland from the 1850's onwards are from a single root, Josiah Dineley, and the date of birth around 1823 could allow for him to be descended from one of the grandchildren of Josiah Dineley of Peopleton, who died in 1790. He in turn was descended from the Dingley's of Charlton/Cropthorne. There is also the coincidence of the first name Josiah.
Finally, there was a John Dineley (grandson of Josiah) who married a Sarah Thompson in Warwickshire in 1820, but their children do not include a Josiah and the chronology of their other children do not suggest that one could be fitted in. Sarah died in 1830.
I certainly cannot disprove the potential link and the availble circumstantial evidence seems to support, rather than go against, it being likely. There remains the option that a family with a surname similar, but different, to Dineley (e.g. Denly, Dinlii, or Donelly) changed their surname (by accident or design) prior to 1850 and there is no link to Cropthorne at all.
Maybe if you have some more information to work with I could have another look, but I don't have much access to Irish Records. Do you have occupation details for your Irish family, or family anecdotes that might help? These may give a clue as to why the family moved across the sea.
I hope this of interest, even if it does not provide an answer.
Neil
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Hi,
Newbie alert here!
My husbands family are Dineleys from Belfast. We have his grandfather as Albert Ernest Dineley married to Elizabeth Maud nee Beattie. Albert's parents were an Andrew Dineley married to an Amelia nee Grey. we would really appreciate any help from ANYBODYas we believe that once again there is a connection through them via Josiah Dineley of peopleton.
Any hints and tips gratefully appreciated, especially in tracing Andrew's parents(who, BTW, we believe to be yet another Andrew!)
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Do you have any dates for these people?
There is a Birth of an Albert Ernest Dineley in 1882 in Belfast. There are records of an Ernest on the 1901 Census and again in 1912 and there is the possibility that he went by his middle name, rather than his first and these records may relate to the same person. Of course your Albert Ernest may be another person altogether, born later than this one.
There is also a record of a marriage between an Andrew Dineley and an Amelia Grey in 1902. While no age is given, he is described as 'previously unmarried' which would suggest that he was born before 1880, but not more than 10 years earlier, as most men at this time married in their early to mid- twenties.
If these are the Albert and Ernest you mention, they may not be father and son. There is the possibility that they are brothers and both sons of an Andrew Thompson Dineley (as referenced in Kate's earlier query). If you have not already, you are likely to find some common ground with a couple of people who have put their family trees on Ancestry.com, who are descended from Andrew Thompson Dineley.
I strongly suspect that all of these Dineley's are descended from a single Josiah Dineley who moved to Belfast in the early 19th Century.
If you can expand on the family rumour of the link to Peopleton, it may help tie him back to a family line in England.
Neil
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Cherryexile, Thanks very much for your reply!
The dates/ information I have are very similar to those you kindly supplied. Our Albert Ernest was born after the 1911 census but family have confirmed he is definately the son of Andrew Dineley who married Amelia Grey in december 1902. Andrew and Amelia were married in Trinity Church, Shankhill according to records on Emerald Ancestors.com. if someone could suggest a lookup service I would be grateful indeed!
It is his parents that we are now trying to trace. We are just guessing at the moment that his father was also Andrew due to the coincidences of family names/adresses/ occupations etc on street directories from Belfast in the early 1900's./ census. For example in one street directory on Lennon Wylie you have Andrew'sneighbour recorded as Thomas Sloan. This in turn is my husbands fathers names: *.
Many Thanks and we will keep on perservering!
Tracy
* details removed as there's a possiblity person is still alive
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Tracey,
If you haven't already seen it, this link will allow you to see the burial records of the two Andrew Thompson Dineleys and Albert Ernest Dineley, who were buried in Belfast; just do a surname only search for Dineley.
http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialrecords/search.asp
Neil
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Thanks for that Neil!
Have looked them up and this just seemed to confuse things all the more! The line I am researching is from Andrew Dineley born(c.1880) who married Amelia Gray in 1902.
On their wedding certificate from Dec 1902, the grooms father is stated as another Andrew Dineley. Yet from the 1901 and 1911 census this Andrew has been remarried to a Margaret McClelland who in turn was originally a Moore. I'm trying to pin point the younger Andrew's mother who I suspect may have been Sarah Crouch/ Shaw.
All these Andrew's, Albert's Ernests etc are all starting to blur in to one and it's getting very confusing!
Again, any help given is REALLY appreciated!
Many Thanks
Trace
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Hi Neil,
Belfast/Port Glasgow Dineleys
Josiah Dineley and Ellen Jane Duncan most definitely moved to Scotland in the early 1870s. I am searching another branch of Dineleys, from Manchester, who moved to Scotland in the 1860s, and I keep coming across these Belfast/Port Glasgow Dineleys!
I have researched them (Belfast/Port Glasgow Dineleys), not in great detail but simply to eliminate from my immediate family. There are descendants of Josiah Dineley and Ellen Jane Duncan living in Scotland today.
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Garfidle,
I would be interested in what you have for Manchester Dineleys. I have always been a little stuck at the point where records appear in Manchester Cathedral in the early 19th Century. Have you traced them earlier than this?
My suspicion is that they are a different line from the Worcestershire branch (which I think, but can't prove moved to Ireland in the first half of the 19th Century) and the strongest likelihood is that they are remnants from the Lancashire/Yorkshire Dyneleys.
Thanks
Neil
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Neil,
Although I don't have any proof, I believe the Manchester Dineleys are descended from Thomas Dineley, born 1624 in Clitheroe! Naming patterns would suggest this and, like you say, it is the strongest likelyhood.
I can only go back to about 1802 with any certainty, when Thomas Dineley (my 3rd G.Grandfather) was born in Manchester. It is likely his parents were Robert Dineley and Elizabeth Bagshaw but I have yet to prove this beyond reasonable doubt!
Thomas Dineley married Alice Crawshaw (about 1823) and had 8 children, as far as I know. I know he later married two other people and died in Buxton in 1874. One of his sons was Edwin Dineley, born about 1824, who came to Edinburgh in 1860/1, married a local lass and settled here.
Hope this helps a little!
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In 1624 the Worcestershire line was predominantly using the spelling Dingley, while the Lancashire/Yorkshire line used the name Dyneley. This alone makes it more likely that Thomas Dineley was from the latter.
Interestingly, there is a Thomas Dyneley who appears on the 'Dyneley of Bramhope (Yorkshire)' family tree which was published in 1824. His father Willliam marriead an Anne Kyme and is described as 'of Leak nr. Boston, circa 1600; but William's father Henry (b.1523) was from Downham, near Clitheroe.
There are no descendents for Thomas on the tree, but Henry was Lord of the Manor and his line goes back to about 1300. Not sure whether this is the Thomas you are refering to, but it may help.
Neil
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Yes, this is the Thomas I was referring to. I believe he had 4 sons: John, Richard, Thomas and Henry Two hundred years later 'my' Thomas Dineley had sons named John, Richard and Thomas.
Although not proof of descent, it is possible, e.g. I am named after my grandfather, who was named after his father, who was named after his grandfather, who was named after his father, who was born in the 1750s, more than two hundred years before I was born!
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Hi all,
Anyone with a connection to Somerset Dingley family?
Martha Dingley married John Haddon 3rd August 1740 at St. Mary's, Bridgwater, Somerset.
Any info. to get me going again researching would be great.
Thanks, Syljun
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
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Hello,
Not sure if you have already checked it, but there is a Marriage Licence record showing on findmypast (original available from the Society of Genealogists) that is likely to be for the marriage you are looking at. Martha is read as Mary and Haddon is Hadden, but it might have some more for you to trace down. The date for the licence is 13 Feb 1739/40
~~~~~~~~
Record source: Faculty Office Marriage Licence Allegations 1701-1850
Data provider: Society of Genealogists
Neil
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Thanks Neill. Will look that up. Syljun
Does anyone know who Martha Dingley is who was left £10. in Will of Lady Martha Gifford who died 1722.
Martha was a god-daughter.
Lady Gifford was wife of Sir Thomas Gifford (died a few wks after marr. ) Lived with Brother Sir William Temple at Moor House, Surrey.
Found Will of Lady Gifford by accident online but lost it and cannot now find it.
Cannot find it at National Archives. Anyone help? Thanks, Syljun
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Hi Neill, Could you please tell me how you found Marr. Lic.of Mary (Martha) Dingley and John Hadden please and whether it would give me any more info. about the couple. Although I have a copy of Marr. Entry from Bridgwater it has scant info. about them just entry of marr. and names of couple.
I don't have any credits of FindMyPast but would like original copy of Lic. if it tells me a bit more. I cannot seem to get any info. from Soc. of Genealogists. Perhaps I'm not doing it right. Any help please.
You have helped me in that I have been searching for a long time for bap. of a Martha Dingley in Bridgwater but will now search for a Mary. Thanks, Syljun
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Syljun,
The Findmypast record can be found within the Marriage Records by searching for John Hadden b. 1700 d. 1740. There are 3 records returned with this search within the Parish Records Collection, Marriages and the one for 1740 is the record of the Faculty Office Marriage Licence Allegations 1701-1850 that are held on Microfiche by the Society of Genealogists. The transcript on findmypast won't give you any more than I have already provided, but there may be more available on the scan of the actual document.
SoG also hold (as part of the same series) the Vicar-General Marriage Licence Allegations 1694-1850 and the same search returns a record from 12 Sep 1739 between a Dingley and a Hadden, but there are no first names. This could also be for the same couple, but because it is National it might not be; you can't tell without looking. I believe that, depending on the circumstances as to why a Licence was being applied for, the originals can contain information on the Parish of origin of the couples, names of guarantors, ages of the parties (at least over 21), and a signature of the applicant but equally it may not add much more than you have from the register.
Last time I needed one, the records could be obtained by visiting SoG in person in London (members free, but you can purchase a Visitors Pass) and paying a pound for a print of the fiche; or by paying £10 on-line and having the scan posted out to you. This option may only be available through the link on findmypast. However, SoG are very helpful if you send them an e-mail, or give them a call.
As an aside, I would also look at the names of the other Dingleys that seem to have married in Bridgewater around the same time, that can be found on IGI. They may lead you somewhere, if they are siblings.
Neil
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Thank you Neil, Info. most helpful and will e-mail them.
Best wishes,
Happy New Year.
syljun
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Hi all,
I've just recently found that I'm also related to William Dingley (through his daughter, Lucy). I've come across various trees link them to the family in Cropthorne - but have my reservations on believing they are part of that line yet. I was wondering (hoping!) that maybe someone has found more information on the Halesowen Dingleys and where they came from. ???
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Hi I am new to this but just starting tracing my husbands family tree. He is a Dingley from the Black country and so far I have got back to a William Dingley marrying a Rebecca Hadely. but I have him as born around 1806. Is this any relation to the previous William Dingley mentioned at the beginning of this thread or I have I just got wrong dates. any help for a beginner would be greatly appreciated
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Scarborough,
You may need to supply a few more details (location, children, occupation etc.) for someone to confirm whether you are looking at the same person or not.
Neil
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http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/family-tree/bcconnections/259555/13225/Edward-Dingley-Family
This tree seems to back up your research blackcountryman.
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Thanks for your help. I will remember to provide more details next time.
Thanks I have looked at the Black Country Connections pages and it does seem that with it's help I can trace my husbands family back to Edward Dingley born around 1730. I hope the other side of his Black country family are just as easy
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In my tree I have a Esther Dingley married to Thomas Webb, of Birmingham, a watch chain maker. They had 3 children, before Esther died ~ 1758 in Birmingham.
1) Vere Webb, bap 6 June 1754;
2) Thomas Webb, bap 1756 d 1756;
3) Elizabeth Webb, bap 1757.
Thomas remarried 1760.
Looking for any information at all regarding Esther Dingley, or if there is any connection between the Dingley name and Vere name.
Paul
1013 hrs
My apologies. have been down this track before. I did not read my own posts ::)
Paul
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My great grandfather was Edwin Dingley of Cropthorne. He moved from Cropthorne to Birmingham and he married Annie Barnes, they had children named Edwin and Ivy. My mother was evacuated in WW2 to Cropthorne with her sister. They stayed with Norah Dingley in the black and white cottage at the bottom of the hill.
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Hi,
Adrian, have you ever come across the reference Dud Dudley made to leaving his secrets to his brother and nephew and "to his kinsman Master Francis Dingley"?
Dud was presumably referring to his experimental smelting of iron using "pit coal" in his 1665 publication Metallum Martis which you can view on Google. Are there any early family papers which have been archived by any chance or have you come across any references elsewhere to this fact ? I appreciate that's it's unlikely any early material survives.
Finally, it's also worth asking perhaps whether you have made links/contact with other researchers also interested in Dud.
Many thanks,
Derek Thom
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Derek,
You possibly already know that Dud Dudley's wife, Eleanor Heaton, was the daughter of Mary Dingley, b. 1579. Mary was the daughter of Francis Dingley, (1550-1624), and had a brother called Francis who died in infancy and another born in 1588 who I can't trace beyond that date and may also have died young. Probably more pertinent to Dud Dudley, she also had at least 2 nephews and a great-nephew named Francis Dingley. Quite which one was the Francis Dingley referred to by Dud is unclear (to me at least), but I have never come across any mention of records being left by any Francis Dingley of that time period. Nor is there any particular link to the Iron Trade or the West Midlands Industrial heartlands.
I hope this is useful, even if it doesn't offer any particular hope of finding original records.
Neil
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Thanks for responding Neil. It was a long shot but you've provided more food for thought.
Cheers,
Derek
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My great grandfather was Edwin Dingley of Cropthorne. He moved from Cropthorne to Birmingham and he married Annie Barnes, they had children named Edwin and Ivy. My mother was evacuated in WW2 to Cropthorne with her sister. They stayed with Norah Dingley in the black and white cottage at the bottom of the hill.
Hello
We must be related. Norah Dingley was by that time called Norah Forester. She was a widow and my mother's beloved aunts. My Mum's 100 years old now with Alzheimer's. But she still talks often of aunty and my daughter has started recording tales of cropthorne. I took her back there when she was 93 for a weekend and she met up with a childhood friend who had married her second cousin George Massingham. It was a weekend of memories. Unfortunately I didn't record them.
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Hi There
If you look at the Look Ups requested pages & go to the request titled Worcestershire Marriage Index:Dingley probably 1730s or 1740s you will see that Ive put quite a bit of info in reply to this request & it was all taken from the parish register film held at the HIVE Worcester so it has a good source
All the very best
Phil
Weston-super-Mare
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Hi Adrian
I just wondered if the info my posting on 24 AUG guided you to was of much help as it guided you to a previous posting Id made containing a lot of Dingly info
All the best
Phil
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Hello,
There were originally 3 main branches of the Dingley/Dyngley/Dineley/Dyneley family. All are centred on a relatively small area of Lancashire around Clitheroe and Clivager (Burnley) in the 13th Century. There is no definitive link between the 3, but they are likely to come from the same stock. To confuse matters there were also a small number based in Dingley, Northamptonshire who cannot be tied to the 3 main branches and may, or may not, be the original source of the families.
Of the three one (most commonly appearing as Dyneley) remained in the north (predominantly Lancashire and Yorkshire) and last existed in the 18th -19th Century as Dyneley of Bramhope.
A second line migrated to Hampshire (Wolverton and the Isle of Wight). They were most commonly called Dingley.
The third moved to Charlton Manor in the Parish of Cropthorne, Worcestershire. From these another minor branch was founded on inherited lands in Kent. These were originally most commonly called Dyngley/Dingley, but the name Dineley was adopted from the 17th Century onwards by the main branch (which maled out and resulted in the departure of the family from Charlton after 400 years) and the branch that took on the Manor of Peopleton, Worcestershire until the middle of the 19th Century. The Hampshire and Worcestershire lines share the same Coat of Arms. The Bramhope one differs very slightly.
To confuse things further a branch of Dingleys appeared a little later in Cornwall and at least some of them migrated to Worcestershire/West Midlands. This may be an off-shoot from the Hampshire or Worcestershire lines, or a bastardisation of the name Dingle in the 15th/16th Centuries in Cornwall. Nothing is proven, but families tend to want to claim alliance to the Worcestershire branch due to their Royal descent.
Thus, if you are of Dineley descent you can most likely trace your line through the myriad of Josiah Dineley's children born in Peopleton in the 18th Century.
If you are a Dingley you have a problem. I do not know of any Dingley who has been able to categorically prove that they descend from the Charlton Dingleys. The line reproduced above is conjectural at the point of Edward Dingley (I'm not saying it is wrong, just that it has not been definitively proven by anyone I have come across who claims the link). There remains the possibility that a Dingley may have come into Worcestershire from a minor line originating in Cornwall and less likely from Hampshire or Kent.
That said there have been Dingleys recorded throughout the Parish Records in Worcestershire since the mid-sixteenth Century, especially around the Evesham/Pershore area and I would find it very surprising if you are not descended.
One other thing. The Henry Dingley that married Joan Pitt was the grandson of the Henry Dingley that married Mary Neville, via Francis Dingley and Elizabeth Bigge. Francis was Henry's eldest son and Henry was Francis' eldest surviving son, who died before his father, so Henry's eldest son Edward took over the estate on the death of his grandmother Elizabeth in the 1632. It is Francis and his grandson Edward who have the memorials in Cropthorne Church. Joan Pitt's father paid Francis Dingley £1,000 for the marriage of his daughter to Francis' eldest son.
I know a lot more about the Dineley descent from Dingleys in Worcestershire than I do about the Dingley ones, but I'm happy to share what I know on the wider expanse of the name.
Neil
My lineage (as far as I'm aware) is directly descended down the eldest sons from Richard Dineley the Great Grandfather of William Dingley 1470 to my Uncle who cannot inherit land or titles.
So being the eldest son of the diseased 2nd eldest brother, If there were land or titles left to inherit, they would've come down to me.
I'll start the ball rolling from my Grandfather who fell from grace.
Charles ALbert Leslie Dingley - 1929-1994
Charles Leslie Dingley - 1904-1944
Charles Rueben Dingley - 1878-1964
Rueben Dingley - 1847-?
John Robert Dingley - 1817-1892
Robert Dingley - 1774 - 1836
Edward Dingley - 1748-1815
Francis Dingley - 1713-1786
Samuel Dingley - 1682-1757
Francis Dingley - 1628-1712
Phillip Dingley - 1603 - 1658
Francis Dingley - 1550-1624
Benjamin Henry Dingley - 1524-1589
Sir John Dingley - 1498-1541
William Dingley - 1470-?
Richard Dyneley -?
Thomas Dyneley -?
Richard Dyneley -?
If any of this is incorrect please let me know, I'm also interested in finding out if anyone has managed to trace back further than Richard Dyneley (William Dingley 1470 great gradfather).
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Hello,
I haven't been on here for quite a while, so sorry for the long delay in responding.
There seem to be a number of issues in the line you have posted, so it would be interesting to know where it came from.
A few initial thoughts are that,
1) much of the line before William (father of John Dingley b.1498) looks wrong
2) I am not aware of John Dingley (1498-1541) being a Knight
3) I have never known Henry Dingley (1524-1589) to be given the name Benjamin.
4) I have a death date for Samuel Dingley (b.1682) of 1712 and no known children - however that doesn't mean that is correct, I would need to do some research. I have a number of children for Samuel's father Francis, but no lineage for any of them.
I can start researching back from the earlier records and seeing where that gets to, but do you have any more information on locations or partners for any of the generations after Francis Dingley (1628-1712)?
Cheers.
Neil
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Benjamin (Henry) went by a few names, which confuses things a little.
In some records he went by the name of Henry, in others he went by Ben or Benjamin, he was born Benjamin though, He has a sarcophagus in St. Michael's church in Cropthorne, It has been a very long time since I last went there.
My information is taken from my grandfathers family tree, I have no idea who generated it or when.
A lot of the family tree has been confirmed through family connections & distant relatives on the Myheritage.com website.
I think there are some discrepancies prior to Francis in my family tree (mainly guestimated dates) because there are few remaining records left, to what I gather they'd been gathered from the private archives of other family estates that had been married into, my grandfather & great grandparents used to visit those estates, and my Grandad & his friends (the estates children that they visited) would trawl through their archives.
We would still have the Dingley archives, had he not married my nan (a gypsy girl) and gotten himself disowned, to what I gather the entire estate was given to a cat charity, so heaven knows where the archives went.
The only thing he took with him was one of the original coat of arms, which was stashed in a box for centuries after it was replaced with the upgraded ones.
I would have to go back and research again to remember what sources came from where etc.
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I found the source for Samuels death date.
Name - Samuel Dingley
Gender - Male
Death Date - 1757
Burial Date - 1 Apr 1757
Burial Place - Cropthorne, Worcester, England
FHL Film Number - 323602
He had three children
Samuel Dingley - b 2 Apr 1711 - 1734
Mary Dingley - b 23 May 1717 - 1717
Francis Dingley - b 29 Mar 1713 - 1786
If memory serves correct, Sir John Dingley was knighted for pledging his allegiance & soldiers to the crown, he was the first to earn the Dingley coat of arms.
Which was upgraded later after Francis Dingley answered the call and won a battle in defence of the crown.
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I myself couldn't find any further back than Richard Dyneley the great grandfather of William Dingley.
The only information I could find on him is that he was raised by the Ralph Neville & Alice (Nee) Audley.