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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Ian2904 on Tuesday 08 December 09 16:32 GMT (UK)
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I'm trying to find my great grandfather's line.
He was Henry Sanders born in about 1880 - married to Harriet Penfold. I have her details, but can't find anything on him other than in the 1911 census.
Any information regarding his parentage and siblings would be gratefully received via PM.
Many thanks
Ian
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Hello Ian,
have you found an actual Marriage for Harriet and Henry?
What did the 1911 census tell you about Henry - whre was he born , what occupation. Also where were they living at the time of the census.
Jim
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Jim,
The information I have on the 1911 census is that he was aged 28, married, a licensed hawker with a van and born in Devon.
They were living in a van and one tent on Horwood Down Frethelstock.
I don't have a marriage license. However, I do have a copy of my grandmother's birth certificate which states that her mother's maiden name was Penfold.
I'm not altogether convinced about the accuracy of the age information, as it stated that my grandmother was 14, when in fact she would have been 11. Additionally, the name seems to fairly portable between Sanders, Saunders, and possibly Sanderson.
- Ian
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hi is that you ian?i have se veral henry saunders.the one i have born 1880
Name Age in 1891 Birthplace Relationship
Sanders, Edward 32 Bournmouth, Hampshire Head
Sanders, Sybil 36 Somerset Wife
Sanders, Mary A 14 Bournmouth, Hampshire Daughter
Sanders, James 13 Callington, Cornwall Son
Sanders, Henry 11 Sampford Courtenay, Devon Son
Sanders, George 9 Great Torrington, Devon Son
Sanders, Michael 7 Liskeard, Cornwall Son
Sanders, Britania 6 Bridgewater, Somerset Son
Sanders, Job 5 Holsworthy, Devon Son
Sanders, William 4 Black Torrington, Devon Son
Sanders, Sophia 2 Ashwater, Devon Daughter is this one.father of course edward,but wife =sybil!!!!!!!i will see what i can find about sybill and keep looking for one with harriet and get back to you.i am sure my friend ian orchard will know about him.i will get onto him right away.as he is i am sure to do with mosey sanders and eileen birch
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who was harriets mum and dad?i should be able to tie up with thast information.
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Hi Cathay - yes it's me! I just wanted to throw the net a bit wider. Harriet's parents were Alfred Penfold & Louisa Small
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right harriet was born 1883 briseham devon yes?i think your frethelstock should be frithlestockstone,if thats any help.its near torrington where harriet and the o thers were born.
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9 Sep 1886
Dartmouth, Devon, England
this is henry saunders his father was robert and his mother was louisa?but i dont know if the are yours or not.do you need to tie him up with mosey saunders?did your henry ever go to canada do you know?
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Cathay,
I think Edward and Sybil are probably a good fit. In the 1891 census, they are registered as licensed hawkers and are also travelling with Henry & Sophie Orchard. Phoebe's brothers are named after father and son - Edward and James, so that's another fit. Also, North Devon around Barnstaple would be more likely than Dartmouth.
I am intrigued by Sybil though. It's not a name I associate with this clan and she's 4 years older than Edward. Perhaps she's an outsider?
In terms of going abroad, not that I'm ruling it out, but I think that is highly unlikely.
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Hi
there is a family in Barnstable in 1891 and 1901 they seem to live a settled life so this might not be your lot but here they are in 1901 (WHOOPS I MEANT IN 1891)
Henry Sanders head Hawker 36
Rachael wife 24
Mary age 16
William age 14 Hawker
John age 10
Henry age 5
Regards,
Jim
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Thanks for your searches Jim.
On balance I think Cathay's find is more likely. Henry's age aligns better, and the possibility of settling into a house within Edward's generation is, I think, less likely.
- Ian
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Yes Ian I agree -
the henry i found may be on the young side to to be the father of your Grandmother.
Good luck jim
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Cathay - have you heard of Britannia being a boy's name?
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In the 1901 census, Edward's birthplace has moved from Bournemouth to the Isle of Wight. Sybil is recorded as Susan, and they also have two more daughters - Betsy and Caroline.
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hi ian.sybils real name was susan nee orchard daughter of william orchard and caroline scarrott,i have their tree.henry seniors dad was george born 1823 in sussex, and his dad was michael also born sussex in 1795.the brittainia saunders in this line was def a girl she married thomas orchard in 1904.
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Excellent work Cathay!
I did think I'd never heard of a son being called Britannia - daughters yes, but certainly not sons.
The Susan / Sybil question cleared up, and the line traced back to Sussex - result!!
Many thanks
Ian
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we can do the orchards aswell if you like?they are an interesting lot!
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Thanks for the offer Cathay. I do need some time to draw up the tree as it stands at the moment. I've got to take it down to the family for Christmas. So I'll pass on that for the time being.
Many thanks
- Ian
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okay my cousin.just let me know when you want to start.love cathay
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Cathay,
Just a quick question. Do you have any information as to where the Sanders family would have come from in Sussex?
I was wondering if they may have been travelling with some Sussex / Kent Penfolds around the Uckfield to Tunbridge Wells area - just a thought
- Ian
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all my penfolds were in the west country towards hampshire./some stayed in london in the old school yard owned by emma taylor/kefford.but there are penfolds just about everywhere.i do know a harriet penfold not yours married a cooper in windsor.sorry i cant be of more help.cathay,
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No problem. It was just a thought. Off to the parents tomorrow to share the latest Sanders info..
Have a good weekend.
- Ian
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hi Ian i have replyed to your message
im sure Cathay has already passed on the stuff i shared with herlast year about this family, but let me no if i can help with anything else.
take care Louise
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NO I HAVENT SHARED ANYTHING YOU GAVE ME MATILDA WITH IAN.I HAVE ONLY GIVEN HIM DETAILS OUT OF MY OWN TREE AND MAINLY ON THE HUGHES AS JOES MUM WAS A HUGHES AND ALSO HIS GREAT AUNT AS YOU KNOW.I AM SURE IAN WOULD BE PLEASED TO RECIEVE ANYTHING YOU HAVE ESPECIALLY AS I COULDNT GIVE HIM DATES FOR ALL AND I AM NOT AT ALL SURE I HAVE ALL OF ROBERTS AND SARAHS CHILDREN YET.oh sorry for the capital letters!!!!i am not shouting i forgot to change back to small!!!ian turns out to be mine and joes 2nd cousin.we share the dsame gt.grandad!!!good isnt it?love cathay
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Cathay, all i was saying was that im sure you had already shared most of what i know as we had shared info in the past. i didnt want to repeat things !
Matilda
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mattilda.you may well know more about the sanders then me as they are not thst close in my line and i only have a few bits on them recieved mainly from ian orchard.i should check with ian hughes.most of the info i have given him is on the hughes.love cathay
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who was harriets mum and dad?i should be able to tie up with thast information.
hi cathayb, i have only just joined this site,came across by accident.anyway i am a penfold from devon, my gran was a sanders/saunders,she was called caroline and married my grandfather at holsworthy devon a round 1915 he was called bob penfold,a son of henry and ocean,nee hughes,also the lovely victorian /edwardian of the wedding,someone said it was a double wed,well i have one taken same time with some of the same people on it,will try to up load it. portholemike
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hi cathay, if it,s any help,i have,alfred penfold [born] 1849--marston,somerset,--died 12 dec 1940---
stibb cross,langtree,torrington,devon
spouse, louisa small,born 24 may 1850 stonehouse lane,plymouth devon----married 15 april 1871---
died 3 april 1928--sc,l,t, devon
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i have replied to you on your other post and sent you my email address by pm.email me and we can share info cousin.it was our granny and grandad got married the same day and i think another couple.it was a triple wedding!!!!!!i got som pics of the day aswell.i also got a pic of henry and ocean penfold.ocean was our great aunt on the other side of the family too.sanders we still got plenty in the family.
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yes we are related.i have pmed you with my email address so we can share photos and info.i have some stories about old uncle bob!!!!!our granny and grandad got married same day!!!
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did you know george sanders/saunders died.he is being buried saturday at south molten.will you be there?if so i migh see you.funeral is at the church 11am.
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Sorry Cathay, I won't be around for a while. Parents aren't too well health wise at the moment, and so I would prefer to stay close if I can.
We should definitely meet up at some time though.
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Hi ? My first time on so not sure what i am doing !!! Been reading info on Henry sanders and wife Harriet /penfold (my great grandparents). I have 1911 census living van horwood downs frithelstock great torrington . Children named includes my grandfather Christopher sanders age 5 newton tracey devon any other info on sanders family
jenny
pl please
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WHAT YEAR IS HENRYS BIRTH?I HAVE MANY HENRY SANDERS /SAUNDERS IN MY TREE SO I EXPECT I CAN HELP YOU AND WE ARE LIKELY TO BE RELATED.OFF TO BED NOW SO WILL SPEAK I HOPE TOMORROW.
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Hi ? My first time on so not sure what i am doing !!! Been reading info on Henry sanders and wife Harriet /penfold (my great grandparents). I have 1911 census living van horwood downs frithelstock great torrington . Children named includes my grandfather Christopher sanders age 5 newton tracey devon any other info on sanders family
jenny
pl please
Hello Jenny.
If you're looking at the 1911 census, then it would appear that you're my second cousin. Your grandfather Christopher was my grandmother Phoebe's younger brother. From the information I have, there were four more children born after this census was taken. Genty in 1911, Louie in 1918, Henry in 1915, and Edward in 1918.
My grandmother Phoebe - line 3 on the census, married Noah Hughes and had two children, Harriet (named after her mother) and Edward - my father, named after her youngest brother. Incidentally, Christopher and Phoebe's brother Moses - line 4 on the census, appears to have married Noah's sister Polly Hughes.
I believe that there are still Sanders' living around the Stibb Cross area.
Cathay is the fount of all knowledge as far as I'm concerned, but feel free to get in touch if you like.
All the best
Ian
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right I think I know where we are coming from now.i have yet to look at my tree to see just who you are.but we must also be second couisins to you.i will confirm that later when I look at the tree.however noah hughes and polly hughes were joes(my husband)great aunts, Mosey married our aunt but was sadly killed many years ago.Moses children are our first cousins.i am just talking about the family as I know them personally at the moment.will look at the tree this afternoon and tell you more.Hi Ian we must be related aswell then??I cant place you at the moment??please enlighten me? regards all cathay birch.Moses wife now remarried still lives in Great Torrington.She also lived in frithelstockstone for awhile.harriet penfold is of course related to us to and I expect I can follow her line down to you aswell.we of course know our cousins who still live down that way the( sanders)
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Hi Ian we must be related aswell then??I cant place you at the moment??please enlighten me? .
Cathay,
I started this thread several years ago, and we have corresponded on and off over that time. As mentioned, I'm Phoebe Sanders' grandson. The kick starter I had to researching my family tree was when I was on holiday in Devon, and my Dad said to go to Stibb Cross and see what it looks like now. Driving up some narrow road, I followed a truck, and on the back of that was P.M. Sanders! Given the name and given the location, it seemed as if there could have been a family connection. Following that name up with the hauliers register gave me name Paul Moses Sanders. Now that's not a common name!
Regards
Ian
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yes we believe P<M<sanders is Paul whose mother is my husband fathers sister Eileen who was married to Moses sanders.n.Devon.Paul is my husbands 1st cousin.going to look at helping more as soon as I get time.regards Cathay Birch
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Hi Ian and Cathay thank you for info on your families and Henry and Harriet children born after 1911 census think may have memories of louie from my childhood . I think Harriet's parents Alfred Penfold Louisa Small but can't find Henry Sanders parents yet ! Jenny
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henry son of harriet and henry married betsy penfold her mother was a orchard I don't yet know her father or mothers maiden name as I haven't really done much on this part of the tree but I will over the week end.
henry their son was born 1915 and he and betsy had moses in 1938 and he married Eileen birch born 1939.they had 3 children still living so cant mention them but moses died very young in 1977 of a heart attack.i think henry born 1915 was one of a twin but I will need to check that,
harriet was born 1883 and died 1954 her husband henry was born 1883
Harriets perants were in deed Alfred sanders and Louisa small.
I haven't done much on this tree but will be doing it over the week end and hope to get back to you by Monday next week.henry born 1883 is a bit difficult cause there were so many henry sanders born 1883 in that area but I will narrow it down quite quickly so don't worry.its just I hadn't worked on eileens line at all.
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Hello everyone, just introducing myself as a fellow descendant of the Sanders/Saunders line.
Michael Dean Sanders (1800-1892) and Elizabeth Draper were my 5x great grandparents.
Michael Saunders (b.1820) and Delilah Lee (4x great grands).
Walter Saunders (1850-1920) and Sarah Lavinia Burton (3x great grands). Walter and his family settled in Hersham, Surrey, with 10 children, one of whom (Noah Alfred Saunders, b.1888) was killed in France in 1918.
I have quite a bit of information on this line, and if I can help anyone out, I'd be happy to do so. I am on Ancestry if you'd like to see more detail. I get a bit tangled up in the families they married into, but I know there are Orchard, Lee, and Stanley in abundance! If anyone has any photos of the Sanders/Saunders line, I'd love to see them. :) In the meantime, happy researching!
All the best,
Antonia
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Hi all.
I was hoping to get a bit of help.
I’ve got a 3xggm Jane Sanders b.1818 Shebbear, Devon. Married Isaac Ayre.
Her father was John Sanders b.1791 Northam, Devon.
I’m not sure how accurate my findings are, but my mum once mentioned something about the Sanders family being gypsy. Have no idea how to verify either way so any suggestions or info would be appreciated. Thanks.
Anna
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Hi all.
I was hoping to get a bit of help.
I’ve got a 3xggm Jane Sanders b.1818 Shebbear, Devon. Married Isaac Ayre.
Her father was John Sanders b.1791 Northam, Devon.
I’m not sure how accurate my findings are, but my mum once mentioned something about the Sanders family being gypsy. Have no idea how to verify either way so any suggestions or info would be appreciated. Thanks.
Anna
Hi Anna,
I can't find a mention of your Sanders in amongst mine (yet!), but Sanders/Saunders was a common traveller name. A quick search for the names you mentioned brought up this page, which may give you a bit more to go on! https://www.ancestry.com/genealogy/records/jane-sanders-24-7m99x
Best wishes,
Antonia
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Thank you. I will take a look.
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I live at crooked oaks on the road from stibb cross. Formally known as higher twitchen. It was bought by Henry Sanders in February 1921 from a henry moase. We know Henry sanders died in 1946. Harriet, his wife and moses his son then sold to James jeffery a locomotive driver in 1953. We have records and deeds dating back 200 years. We know the kind opposite now Jimara, and our neighbours towards thornhill head now collingsdown all had gypsy caravans on their land and all bought from moses. What we reallycl want to know is when higherctwitchen bungalow was built and if any pictures are available. We love this place dearly and would live to know more of its history. The earliest photo we have is from the 70's when it was owned by either William Henry Greek (Grace) Kelly or Daniel Davis or possibly Alan James Courtney Briggs although he bought in 1977. Yes the land from stibb cross across the moors has changed a lot but we would love to know more about its past.