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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: Trees on Thursday 11 March 10 10:36 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone know any of the history of the Mare and Colt Inne in Hartlebury.
I know in 1861 joseph Cook was living there but he is listed as agardener and wonder if he was in fact the Inn keeper.
trees
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hi trees you could try ringing the owner to see if he has any info on the history number is 01562824116
kerry
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Good thinking will do thanks.
Trees
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This is strange in 1861 RG 9/2110 fo103 p12 Joseph and Sarah COOK are at the Mare And Colt, Low Hill Hartlebury as a Gardener of 9 acres
In Billings Directory 1855
Sarah COOK beer retailer The Globe Hartlebury Heath and Sarah COOPER The Mare &Colt Hartlebury Common
Now does this mean Joseph and Sarah were first at the Globe then at the Mare & Colt or were they never Inn keepers and the one at the globe a coincidence ???
Following Joseph and Sarah on censuses he is consitantly a Gardener or Market Gardener on Low Hill
Hes anyone any ideas please?
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is cooper sarah's maiden name?
kerry
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Looking more carefully at the 1861 census I find several schedules addressed as Mare and Colt and an Emma COOPER Inn Keeper at the Mare and Colt three pages on from the Cooks
So it doesn't look like the COOKS kept that pub and the hamlet was called The Mare and Colt, but now wonder did they keep The Globe as Billings Directory has an entry in 1855 for Sarah COOK beer retailer The Globe Hartlebury Common.
I am now checking for other Sarah COOKS and trying to find The Globe A walk on the AA web site mentions Globe house towards the river I wonder if that was once the pub
Billings says the GLOBE was Hartlebury Common and the Mare & Colt Hartlebury Heath is there a difference?
H
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I live in Kidderminster, and the only Mare and Colt I know of is at the end of Stanklyn Lane, at Summerfield. Worcester Road.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&q=summerfield+kidderminster&fb=1&gl=uk&ei=TLCaS-OwNIyGONTxkKwD&ved=0CBIQpQY&hl=en&view=map&geocode=FX72HgMdMuLd_w&split=0&iwloc=A&sa=X
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That sounds good Jim the Cooks are a few schedules from Summerfield House in Mare and Colt and Emma COOPER the Inn keeper the other side of Summerfield House It looks like the area is known as the Mare and Colt. I wonder if the Romanies ran their horses along there to "show" them off or was there a horse fair on the common in days gone by?
Trees
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Hi Trees
Weve been in contact several times before. I can definately confirm that the Mare & Colt is at Summerfield as I used to live at Hartlebury & know the names of the pubs there. I cant help you with the history of the M & C but if I were you Id follow the link that you have been given
All the very best
Phil
Weston-super-Mare
ps horses were not shown by romanies there & its a long way from Hartlebury Common which is very near to Stourport on Severn (Upper Mitton in some records) - where as Summerfield is very close to Kidderminster & if building goes on at the same rate will soon be part of Kidderminster
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Thanks Phil I am now pretty sure the Cooks had nothing to do with the pub just lived in close proximity to it Do you know the Globe though as a Sarah Cook was definitely keeping that one. I am desperately trying to find which of the Sarahs this was
Your local knowledge is and has been a wonderful help Was it a horse breeding/training area?
H
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Hi Trees
I cant recall a pub named the Globe (was this Hartlebury) if so I can ask a cousin who was born at Crossway Green (its part of Hartlebury parish) & has lived there all his life (He was 78 this week) & what he doesnt know about Hartlebury could be put on the back of a stamp. I shall be going on holiday there in early April till mid May
All the very best
Phil
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Your local knowledge is a great help many thanks Phil
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Hi Trees
I forgot to say about the horse breeding
There as a very big house that was called "Waresley Court" in the parish & the owner before Lord Hampton was a horse breeder & there were a lot of stables on the property - unfortunately the court was demolished in 1929 & is now a big housing estate. If you would like a photo of the court I can send you one by e mail, but there is no sign of the stable blocks on it. e mail me at (*)
A lot of gypsies used to live on Hartlebury common many years ago & they may have bred horses but I cant comment further on that as Im not one of them
All the very best
Phil
Weston-super-Mare
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Hi Trees
Ive had a thought, would you like me to look at hartlebury parish registers for you when Im on holiday in APR - if so let me know who you want looked up & a rough date to give me a fair chance
All the very best
Phil
Weston-super-Mare
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;D My Egerton/O'Shea family camped on Hartlebury common.
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Hi Trees
I dont know if they would be in the parish registers for Hartlebury but if you give me a few dates I'll have a shufty for you
All the very best
Phil
Weston-super-Mare
ps I didnt notice that you were also researchin romanies, have you tried the romany site as I beleive that its very good
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sorry Phil somehow I missed the last posts here that is a very kind offer I'll look through the data and pm you
H.
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Hi Phil, not sure if your last message was talking to me? I dont like to butt in ;D yes Im researching Romanies obsessively, my great grandmother was a Romany fortune teller. Anyway, in 1904 Sarah/Sally Egerton married into the O'Shea family, they were on Hartlebury common at the time but I cant tell you much else. Her half sister Louisa turned up in Bridgend in 1916 where she married my great-grans brother William Roberts. Her father was named as a deceased horse dealer John Egerton. Sarah/sally ran a pub in Malvern Link, Worcs at some point. Yes I look on the traveller section on here frequently and Romanygenes is good too.
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Hi both we were wondering about the RANDLE family being Romanies or marrying Romanies as they lived on Hartlebury common but I think I have found them settled for many generations so that seems to rule the link out. However there still remains a question over the origins of Ann who married William RANDLE in 1810 in Hartlebury. The Marriage index has her surname as Labigail but the actual entry looks more like Sabigail so we are thinking it could be a corruption of Savagar. There is an Ann Savagar baptised in Ombersley about the right time they seem a settled family but only go back one generation Now there are SAVAGAR and SAVAKARs in Brecon and Hereford but very few in Worcestershire so the doubt remains were they were Gypsies. This has come about as one of the fellow researchers has a definite oriental look and is desperate to find where it comes from.No one on the travellers board or on Romaniegenes recognises the name so the ball is still in the air over that one. Its a very loose connection to my tree but I'd love to help her sort it out if at all possible.
rebekahm28 I actually live on the outskirts of Bridgend let me know if I can help at all where did they marry I could possibly get a photograph of the place for you
H
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Hi Hazel
Ombersley would fit in as the travelers tend to be baptised & married at Ombersley but buried at St Marys church Crossway Green (part on the Hartlebury parish) - I dont know why this should be but it happens. I expect you know this, Hartlebury parish is contiguous to Hartlebury parish & now they even share the same vicar Canon Peter Kerr the Ombersley vicar
All the very best
Phil
Weston-super-Mare
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Trees, thankyou for your message. We visited the area last May to look around, William and Louisa just married at the registry office in 1916. My Roberts family were from Sussex and Kent but settled in Aberkenfig near Bridgend in the very early 1900's. They were on Dunraven St; when we visited the locals werent too happy about having an English stranger walking down their street though! :-\ So I never took a photo of the house, its a bungalow at the top on the right hand side. They werent there in 1911 but were by 1916, thats all we know. My gg grandad Samson Roberts bought a cinema that was closing down and donated it to the community on the condition it was never sold, we think it was in Newport. Then he was involved in a collision between his horse and cart and another mans (in a race!) and died of his injuries at home. His daughter Gentila lived on Nolton Street with her husband and 3 kids, big white house opposite a pub, we visited there too, she told fortunes from there. Her sister Celia O'Shea lived behind, on Cheltenham Terrace and brother Jim lived in Brynmemyn. Other sister Harriet lived on Corpor Rd, Newport.
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gracious Rebekah you will never know how near we are to some of those places will Pm you
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Hi Trees
here is the result of your OXF look up requests as well as a bit of WOR info
Charlbury
Baps
20 OCT 1850 William s/o Elias/Hannah Dunsby [lab]
20 OCT 1850 Edward henry s/o "/" " "
26 SEP 1852 George s/o Matthew/Sarah " "
27 SEP 1857 Thomas William s/o "/" " "
10 JUN 1821 Sarah d/o Thomas/Fanny Stait "
6 SEP 1822 John s/o Thomas/Ann Kench Carpernter
Burs
4 SEP 1834 Eliner Dunsby [infant]
7 AUG 1875 Walter George Dunsby [11 month] Chadlington
21 NOV 1879 caroine " [3y/o] WORCESTER
22 DEC 1886 Sarah " [63y/o] Market Street
Mars
1 SEP 1864
Elias Dunsby/Full/B/lab/Finstock/William/lab
Hannah Clare/Full/-/gloveress/Stonesfield/James/lab
Wits- Matthew Dunsby, Elias Dunsby
30 AUG 1841
John Kench/24/B/lab/Charlbury/Thomas/carpenter & wheelwright
Elizer Dunsby/21/S/gloveress/Finstock/William/lab
Wits- John Holefield, Rachel Turner
18 MAR 1849
Mathew Dunsby/25/B/lab/Finstock/William/ lab
Sarah Stait/23/S/-/Charlbury/Thomas/lab
Wits- William Stait, Hannah Gumm
the correct spelling of the name Gumm is GOMM & without checking I bet that she is on my tree as Gomm is my main line of research in OXF & one of my main lines of research anyway as it was my late Mums maiden name.
26 DEC 1853
Thomas Harris/26/B/lab/Finstock/Richard/lab
Harriett Dusby/20/S/gloveress/Finstock/William/lab
Wits- Wiliam Turner, Hannah Harris
Chipping Norton
Burs
18 OCT 1766 Elizabeth Dunsbee [25 y/o] Over Norton
Baps
27 SEP 1766 William s/o Richard/Elisab: Dunsbee Over Norton
Entry in Jacksons Oxford Journal
13 JUN 1818 William Dunsbee// place of death Hampton OXF// no age given// comment- Inquest:accident (drowned)
I also have fiche for Hartlebury 1540 - 1813 & wonder if this is one of your ancestors burial
23 FEB [dam I forgot the year but think its about the 1700s] Thomas Eggerton
Also here is a contact for you in the travelers comunity. The chaaps name is Ben Finney & I think his father may be of help to you - I asked a mate of mine for Bens e mail address but he didnt know it, however he gave me Ben Finneys mobile phone number (*). He will prob want to know how you got this number - tell him that it was given to Phil [the chap from Weston who stays with his ex neighbours Meg & Mick Cupper] by RichardSanders. Ben will be ok with that as Richard is a friend of his & Ben also knows me to speak to
I hope this has been of help to you & dont forget. if you want anything done at the History Centre let me know by e mail as I shall be going on holiday in about a week
All the very best
Phil
Weston-super-Mare
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Many thanks Phil thats wonderful, And the offer is very generous I've been away for the week end will get a list together when we're unpacked :) :)
H
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Hi Heather
Dont forget, if you want to find out more about the campers on Hartlebury Common, it would be worth getting in touch with Ben Finney as his father would more than likely be a fount of knowledge on the subject
All the very best
Phil
ps I hope to travel on 12th APR & shall be going of line for a bit on 7th or 10th APR & after that will access my e mails at a library in Kidderminster WOR once a week -you have my e mail address I beleive
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HighTrees,
I know nothing about the history of the Mare and Colt, but, as I wrote a history of Stourport pubs five or six years ago, I did quite a bit of research. The Globe was a private house when first built. It became a beer house in 1850 when George Cook held the licence. He held it until about 1872. It was taken over Phillip Haffner until 1883 and then by Harriet Haffner until 1905. It passed on to Edward Hartwell until the magistrates refused its licence in 1907, when it reverted back to a private dwelling. It is now called Globe House.
In those days, the address for The Globe was Lower Heath, Hartlebury, but in 1933 this area was taken into the Stourport urban district.
There is a photo in the book of The Globe when it was a 'pub', and anpther as it is now.
Coincidentally, my grandparents bought the next door property in about 1925 and that is where I used to visit them every Sunday. Another coincidence....... My family name is Cook, but I have yet to find a connection with Joseph and Sarah.
Most beer house keepers only served beer as a secondary occupation. They usually carried on other trades too.
The Mare and Colt at Summerfield, I am sure, would have come under the parish of Stone, in the mid 19th century.
Hope you find this of help or interest.
John Cook
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Hi Trees
Sorry to contradict but Sumerfield has always been part of Hartlebury parish
All the very best
Phil
Weston-super-Mare
ps I used to live at Waresley, which is also in Hartlebury parish
pps 2 lots of my ancestors used to keep the Mitre Oak Inn at Crossway Green, the other end of Hartlebury parish
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Hi Trees
I had a word with my cousin but he is unable to help with info on the Globe public house However he was able to tell me that the gypsies DID trade horse on Hartlebury Common when they had a large camp there
All the very best
Phil
Weston-super-Mare
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Re: Hartlebury Common, the Egertons camped there too; they're in my tree.
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I have just come across this post re Mare & Colt Hartley.
Oddly enough according to my gr grandfather birth cert he was born there in 1892 and his father occupation " Innkeeper".
I know no more than this, but would like too.
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Sorry that should be Hartlebury.
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We will need your gt grandfather's name then we'll try to help a bit
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My great grandfathers name was George Reginald Edwards and his father was Frederick Lloyd Saunders Edwards. And although he is occupation as " Innkeeper" on other certs and census it reads professional scrivener or could read swimmer?? but was swimming an occupation back then? All a bit of a mystery. But thank you for the offer to try to help, much appreciated.