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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: merritt on Saturday 20 March 10 08:48 GMT (UK)

Title: Spike Island
Post by: merritt on Saturday 20 March 10 08:48 GMT (UK)
My 3x gt grandfather was imprisoned on Spike Island in 1847.  As we are visiting Ireland in June I would like to know if it is possible to visit the Island and also if there any records of the prisoners held there.

Valerie
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: km1971 on Sunday 21 March 10 17:34 GMT (UK)
Hi Valerie

I don't think it will be open by this summer - http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0728/spikeisland.html - but you should contact Cork Tourist Board. You will need a boat as unlike some of the other islands in Cork harbour it is not linked to the mainland by a causeway.

You can get more information if you go to www.google.ie and search for spike island on that site. It came up on the forum a few weeks ago - http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,441795.0.html

Ken
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: merritt on Tuesday 23 March 10 03:19 GMT (UK)
Thank you Ken

I have asked on the Spike Island web site.  Fingers crossed

Valerie
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: Guidingspirit on Monday 05 April 10 20:24 BST (UK)
Hello Valerie,
                     I too have an interest in Spike Island around the time that your 3xgreat grandfather was incarcerated there. My 2xgreat grandfather was on the Island with his wife and three children when my great grandfather was born in 1849. I am awaiting the arrival of my great grandfathers birth certificate which should tell me what his father's profession was ( I am hoping he was a soldier) and then I will be able to trace him through the military route. Which brings me to the main thrust of my message which is that the military kept barrack returns, muster records etc so I am inclined to think that they also had records of prisoners. If my 2xgreat grandfather was a soldier then I will try to access his military history at the National Archives and if I can find out anything about lists of prisoners I will let you know. By the way, have you read the book by Michael Martin called "Spike Island" saints, felons and famine? I found it fascinating and not a little disturbing as a lot of the prisoners died but there are some names of prisoners in the book so there must be a record of them somewhere.
Good luck with your visit to Ireland, I hope you get to visit Spike Island as it's a journey I hope to make myself. Jean.
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: merritt on Monday 05 April 10 22:04 BST (UK)
Hi Jean

Thank you for that information.  I gather that my ancestor Martin Farrell was lucky to survive Spike Island.  He was a victim of the famine when he and 2 daughters stole a sheep.  The daughters were transported 2 years before Martin and they were all  reunited in Hobart.  The older daughter came on to NZ much later but Martin died, a free man,  in Tasmania.  The really sad thing is that Martin sent for his wife and 3 other children when he gained his freedom but they has all perished in the famine.

 I have made enquiries through Cork Tourism to see if it is possible to visit Spike Island in June but have had no reply.

I have found this Amazon Uk site for Michael Martins book and intend to follow this up when we are in the UK in July.

Thanks Valerie
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: Guidingspirit on Tuesday 06 April 10 09:10 BST (UK)
Hello again Valerie,
                               Thank you for sharing your family history with me, I was wondering what became of him and his family but now you have answered my question. It is difficult for us to comprehend what they must have gone through at that terrible time in Ireland's history and to be imprisoned for simply trying to survive seems criminal in itself. I have managed to find out that Cork County Council are hoping to open Spike Island to tourists by the summer (mid 2010 they say) which hopefully means June when you will be there. Apparently it is the dreaded health and safety issues that are holding things up but I do so hope that you will be able to visit the Island and make your pilgrimage. I can imagine that the energies on that Island are awesome and you will, no doubt, be able to imagine what those poor dear souls were feeling as they walked through the gates of that prison leaving their loved ones behind to almost certain death. I hope that you have a wonderful holiday in Ireland, I have never been but it is something that I hope to put right soon. I live in Brixham, Devon, England which is a beautiful part of the world but somehow Ireland feels like England used to be and I long to visit the home of my ancestors.
                                                              Kindest Regards Jean. 
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: celtic liberty on Wednesday 07 April 10 23:39 BST (UK)
Hi Folks,

Am glad you liked the book on Spike by Michael Martin that I recommended
and glad that you arenow recommending it to others.  It really does give a good insight into life there at that time.  I have to totally agree with the author Michael Martin that the Irish people   were so poverty sticken and poor only stole to feed their families and were not felons at all.   How sad the whole situation was for them.

Anyway just browsing the 1911 census and it gives  a good idea of the people,
barracks, schools, churches and dwellings on Spike.  If you go into www.nationalarchives.ie/census key in Cork for County and Spike Island for townland and all of the inhabitants at the time come up.  Nos. 31 to 66 is the barracks return.  If you scroll down the page and  go into Form B1 it gives a good idea of the buildings - Private dwellings, schools (2 C of E & 1 Catholic) also 2 churches,  I did notice most of the inhabitants were C of E .Methodist or Presbyterian and few Catholics.  Those listed were mostly employed by the War Dept (Uk) .  The places of birth are very interesting and vary from Malta, Gibralter, UK , Ireland, India, Aden, Bermuda and many more.  It appears that Spike had it's own churches ( in 1911 anyway) it might have been the same in 1840-1860's.

See what you think.

Guiding spirit I havn't forgotten you.   I was in Library today and did a bit of research on Spike Island in earlier days but need to go back again and will get back to you.  Found a small bit of info on the schools in 1800's so will post when that is done.

Mary
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: Guidingspirit on Thursday 08 April 10 10:05 BST (UK)
Bless your heart, Mary, I am having real trouble trying to nail down any reference at all to the Tomney family being on Spike Island so I am most grateful for your efforts.
I sent away for my great grandfathers birth certificate in the hope that it would reveal his fathers profession and mothers maiden name but having hoped and waited for 3 weeks they now tell me that they couldn't locate it in the Irish BMD's but I was under the impression that it would be in the British records under the British Military.
I have, however, managed to obtain a copy of my great grandfathers service papers and as it mentions that his children were baptised by a "Rev" I am thinking that the family were probably Anglican.
Yes, the book that you recommended to me "Spike Island, Saints Felons and Famine" is well worth reading for anyone interested in Spike Islands history and I do so agree with you that most of the people incarcerated or transported were simply doing what they had to do to survive. Valerie's story illustrates that fact.
Thank you so much for all your help and I look forward to hearing from you.
Jean.
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: merritt on Thursday 08 April 10 10:19 BST (UK)
Hi All

I have had contact with a friend who lives outside Cork.  She tells me that you can sail around Spike Island on a harbour cruise, but that is not really what I want.  She hasn't given up so heres hoping.  She seems to think that they are turning it into a tourist attraction, which I had heard about, but that the Irish economy is so bad everything is grinding to a halt.  Oh well, perhaps I can hire a boat.

Valerie
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: Guidingspirit on Thursday 08 April 10 17:11 BST (UK)
Hello again Valerie,

                              Reading your post I had this glorious vision of you in your holiday attire in a small dingy rowing for all your worth toward Spike Island. I do so agree with you that a harbor cruise around the island (lovely though I am sure it would be) just wouldn't be the same as actually setting foot on the Island and visiting the places that mean so much to you. I do so hope that your dreams do come true.
                                           Jean.
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: km1971 on Thursday 08 April 10 18:34 BST (UK)
The regimental BMDs available on Findmypast for example do contain some 'home' events. Some of my GF's children born in both Ireland and England are recorded. But they are recorded on the civil registers as well, so I am surprised the Irish GRO cannot locate them.

Ken
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 08 April 10 19:05 BST (UK)
The regimental BMDs available on Findmypast for example do contain some 'home' events. Some of my GF's children born in both Ireland and England are recorded. But they are recorded on the civil registers as well, so I am surprised the Irish GRO cannot locate them.

Ken

Full Civil registration only started in Ireland in 1864, so GRO Ireland will not have birth records before that. I believe the births being mentioned are from the 1840s or 50s..


Shane
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: Guidingspirit on Thursday 08 April 10 19:09 BST (UK)
Thank you Ken. I was very disappointed they couldn't locate it but as my great grandfather was born in 1849 and Irish civil registration didn't start until 1864 maybe that is the reason. I have tried the "Find my past" but no luck thus far. The difficulty may be not knowing if the family were military or there in a civilian capacity which I would have thought was doubtful. However, I have contacted a researcher at the National Archives in the hope that they may be able to uncover some information for me - at least they know where to look as they are doing it all the time - it's worth a try anyway. But in the meantime Mary is looking into it for me at her local library so I am hopeful that she may uncover something useful. Jean.
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: setanta on Tuesday 27 July 10 20:51 BST (UK)
My 3x gt grandfather was imprisoned on Spike Island in 1847.  As we are visiting Ireland in June I would like to know if it is possible to visit the Island and also if there any records of the prisoners held there.

Valerie

Hi Valerie,

I hope I'm not to late with this information. Spike Island will be open to the public this Saturday, 31st of July. Launch leaving Kennedy pier @ 2pm. The launch will take 70 passengers (first come first served basis.). Will be running on Sunday too.

Regards Miriam
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: merritt on Wednesday 28 July 10 03:06 BST (UK)
Yes, you are too late.  I was in Cobh in June actually in the area for 2 wonderfull weeks.  While I was there I did have a very exciting meeting with Michael Martin whose book, Spike Island, you may know.

I had made contact with Michael before leaving NZ and he said to contact him when I was in Cobh which I did.  He is a charming man and took time out of his busy schedule to talk to me which I appreciated.  He actually told me that it was not possible to go to Spike Island until the end of July as you said.  He did tell me that there was a petition in to the Irish Parliament for a postumous pardon for the prisoners on Spike Island who stole food during the famine.  This is of great interest to me and I suggest to many others.

I was also able to find the marriage registration of my other 3x gt grandparents in Carrigtwohill  in 1841 so I came away very happy.  :D

Best wishes Valerie
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: Tony11 on Wednesday 11 August 10 22:42 BST (UK)
Hi I am new to this forum but I saw this subject on Spike Island and it rangbell? so i checked my family history
I have a Great uncle born on Spike Island in 1876
he was called Sailsbury Lowe.
his father was called James Lowe and was in the army around this time,mother was Maria Lowe (nee Day)
  I would be greatfull for any information related to his birth there.and how to get any documented evidence about him,
thank you in advance
Tony
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 11 August 10 22:57 BST (UK)
There's a birth listed in civil index for Salsbury Lowe 1875 Cork registration district volume 15 page 193. See here for details on birth certificates and how to order them-
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433041.0.html

I.G.I (www.familysearch.org) shows Salsbury Lowe born 3 July 1875 Co.Cork with parents James Lowe and Maria Day.

LDS site also lists the family in 1881 census-New Infantry Barracks, Fulford Rd, York Place, Gate Fulford, York, England:
James Lowe, soldier (private), 40, born Kilcleagh Kings
wife Maria Lowe, 26, born Bantry Cork
son Salsbury Lowe, 6, born Spike Island Cork, scholar
son George Lowe, 4,  born Fyzabad India           
son Jeremiah Lowe, 5 months, born Fulford Barracks York England
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: km1971 on Saturday 14 August 10 14:05 BST (UK)
Hi Tony

The army records of a James Lowe, born c1841 in Tullamore, Westmeath are on Findmypast. The most famous Tullamore is next door in Offaly, but there is one near Kilbeggan, Westmeath - although it is a fair way from Kilcreagh.

If you look at the 1881 census (free on the IGI) and search near the front until you find some officers I can usually tell you which regiemnt he was serving in at the time.

Ken
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: aussiegrrl on Sunday 29 August 10 10:12 BST (UK)
Hi

I'm new to the list, but would be interested to hear more about the book on Spike Island that Valerie mentioned, and whether prison records may be available. I have two great great grandfathers who were imprisoned in Spike Island before being transported to VDL in 1852. None of their other records give info on where they came from beyond the name of their county, so I guess I'm hoping that the Spike Island records might.

One was Michael MURPHY of Kilkenny, convicted at Thomastown on 27 June 1849 at age 30 of (probably) housebreaking (one record says killing sheep, but two housebreaking, so I'll go with the majority). The other was Martin CONNOLLY of Galway, convicted of sheep stealing on 14 March 1850. Interestingly, they both spent time together in Mountjoy prison before being sent to Spike Island in 1851, from whence they were transported to VDL on the same ship. Perhaps it should be no surprise that the relationship kept going in Tasmania, where Michael's daughter married Martin's son.

Michael is listed in the Mountjoy records as having a wife, Margaret, and 3 children, although his later papers say 2 children. I think his wife  may have emigrated to 'America' while Michael was in prison. He later married again in Tasmania, but was a tragic figure, attempting suicide on a number of occasions, eventually succeeding on St Patrick's day in 1890 (taking rat poison). I'd really love to track him down, but 'Michael Murphy' is like looking for a needle in a haystack!

Cheers, Karen
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: km1971 on Monday 30 August 10 09:10 BST (UK)
Hi Karen

If you divide it into two, details of the crime may have appeared in a local newspaper. These may be held in the Library of Ireland - http://www.nli.ie/

Any details of the punishment will be held in the National Archives of Ireland - http://www.nationalarchives.ie/ - although I know that lots of records were destroyed in the civil war of 1922.

You should at the very least discover what kind of hearing was held in Thomastown on that date. Thomastown is not the county town of Kilkenny, so it is likely that the accused came from the immediate area, and were held in prison awaiting a circuit judge. So you need to research the 'circuit' to gauge the area covered by hearings in Thomastown.

At the end of the day however you are not in the ideal place to reseach Irish records and will probably have to employ local researchers.

Ken
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: aussiegrrl on Saturday 04 September 10 03:32 BST (UK)
Hi Ken

thanks for your help. I did find the reference to my gg grandfathers being sent to Spike Island in the NAI some 6yrs ago (in their Mountjoy prison records), but didn't  have time to wait for the Spike Island records (I think the lift was out of order at the warehouse and they weren't brining records down the stairs or something). I couldn't find reference to Michael's crime in the Kilkenny papers, but I didn't think to look at Thomastown records, so thank you - this is another thing to try. And fabulous that the newspapers are now online. (As are many old Australian newspapers, through our National Library - www.nla.gov.au)

Kind regards
Karen
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: celtic liberty on Monday 27 September 10 14:36 BST (UK)
Hi ,

I went to Spike Island yesterday and took some photos which you might be interested in .

Guiding Spirit I thought of you while there and thought of the Tomney family who lived there in the  1800's.

I will send you some more photos by email

Mary
Celtic Liberty
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: celtic liberty on Monday 27 September 10 14:47 BST (UK)
A few more Spike Island photos
Mary
Celtic Liberty
Title: Re: Spike Island
Post by: Dowdy on Wednesday 13 September 17 16:20 BST (UK)
Nice to see pictures of Spike Island. My great grandad was based there for some time and was resident when he met my Great Grandmother,a Cork lady.