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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: kallie50 on Sunday 25 April 10 23:38 BST (UK)
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Hello
I am looking for information of when Letitia Noyes and her four children, Eliza aged 18, Silas 9, Maria 6 and Hannah 4 came to Australia.
I have quite a lot of information re Silas and Letitia but have come up against a brick wall with the above.
Silas came to Australia as a convict in 1831 and was sent to Dagworth Farm, Hunter River, Maitland, NSW. Letitia and the children must have come to Australia between Jul 1835 - Mar 1848.
Silas and Letitia both wrote letters to the authorities requesting Letitia and the children be sent to Australia to join him.
The letters were sent nov 1834 and Jul 1835. Silas died Mar 1848 and Letitia was beneficiary to his estate, the Probate shows her address as Petersham, NSW.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Regards
Lynne
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Hi,
I have had a bit of a look on the records that Ancestry have, nothing shows for her. Unfortunately the mariners website for NSW only goes back to 1855.
I take it you have her death certificate which should say how long she had been in Australia.
There seems to be a bit of a gap in our shipping records, I'm missing a few of mine too.
mum mum
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Hi there,
http://www.rootschat.com/links/08jg/
Have you considered making contact with the submitter ;), great great great great great great grandchildren for the couple are listed there, and with the depth of research that would have been undertaken to make that submission in 2001 perhaps they have since found Letitia's arrival.
Fingers crossed.
Silas and Letitia are shown with seven children, perhaps several of them were born in NSW, thus giving some clues to when she arrived ;), so I note there's a baptismal record on the Early Church Records at NSW BDM online, 1843 Anna NOYES, father Silas, mother Ellen. Perhaps this would be Hannah Noyes, with Ellen perhaps being Letitia. (V18431139 27A/1843) If you think this likely, may I suggest a transcript rather than the certificate. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,300394.0.html
Edit to add, IGI extracted record for Anna Noyes shows baptism 11 JUN 1843 St Peter, Campbelltown, New South Wales, Australia (Silas NOYES and Ellen as parents), so if Letitia was Ellen, then arrival was no later than 1843 ;D
Further Edit ... Of course, Silas, father of Anna may be Silas, son of Silas. If so, then when did Silas (son of Silas and Letitia) marry Ellen? If in NSW, then there's another clue as to latest year of arrival
Noticing that a Silas NOYES married Ellen Butler in 1841 ;) in the Hunter Region in NSW ;)
Cheers, JM
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Hi there,
I am looking for information of when Letitia Noyes and her four children, Eliza aged 18, Silas 9, Maria 6 and Hannah 4 came to Australia.
Just wondering, what year were the four children aged (respectively) 18, 9, 6 and 4... could that be the year they arrived in Australia ;) or are those ages gleaned perhaps from the letters of 1834/5..
Cheers, JM
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Letitia NOYES remarried John BARKER in 1852 & she died 1862 in Cooma age 72 yrs :)
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Hi,
Having recrntly read Thomas Keneally's "Australians origins to Eureka" I went back and had a look at Chapter 24, 'Fetching Spouses".
It was apparently the custom to send spouses on Womens convict ships, Keaneally says that the last such ship was the "Margaret" from Dublin in 1840.
That would put her arrival, if it was on a convict ship, between 1834 and 1840.
Is there any way of searching the passenger lists for individual ships?
mum mum
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Hi there,
On the off-chance, have you considered searching the UK 1841 Census ... although Noyes could be mis-transcribed ;) It would be part of an elimination process. I have not found Letitia Noyes ;) ;) listed in that census. Closest I could find was a 12 year old Eliza Noyes in Berkshire at HO 107/36/9 in the Reading district, and sub-district of St Mary. I think she would be in same household as a Rebecca (abt 55 yrs) and Ellen (abt 40 yrs) Hooper.
Also, re Silas, do you have copy of his Certificate of Freedom dated 30 Nov 1839 ? And were there any clues as to where he intended to reside, or if his wife and family had arrived/were to arrive etc.
Cheers, JM
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Hi Lynne,
I have seen a few shipping records which simply list, for example, " 7 wives of convicts and 10 children", with no names. They generally appear after the paying cabin passengers on the first page of the manifest.
Debra
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From the Maitland Mercury Newspaper:
15 Sep 1847
Silas NOYES, of East Maitland Selling by auction, land and premises preparatory to his departure from Hunter district.
26 Feb 1848
Silas NOYES, Died at Petersham on 22nd February. A resident of East Maitland for many years.
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From the Maitland Mercury Newspaper:
13 May 1843
NOYES Silas sen. - East Maitland, Claim for registration to vote for the Borough of East and West Maitland allowed.
Proof that wife & family arrived before 1843 as he is addressed as Silas Noyes Snr. His family including his son named Silas must have been known to the people in the area.
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Well found Merlin,
Perhaps the family history group from that area has some lots of info that may just help !
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ausmfhc/index2.html
Fingers crossed for Lynne ;)
Cheers, JM
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Hello everyone
Thanks so much for all your assistance. I have narrowed the dates to between 1835 - 1840.
I have started a process of elimination with the assisted immigration passenger list. I've gone through 1835, 1836 and April & Jun 1837. So on the week end will try to finish 1837 and 1838,39,40.
Debra, that was interesting that the wives and children of convicts may not have been shown separately and only in a group. That could possibly be one reason I'm unable to find any records. I never thought of that!
Well done Merlin for picking up on the 'snr' part of the name.
I have actually been to the Maitland Family History Society and found quite a bit of information but nothing on the arrival of Letita and the children.
The death certificates and Silas Certificate of Freedom dont give any information of the families arrival.
I'll keep plodding along - I appreciate everyones help
Regards
Lynne
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Hi there,
Just a thought, do you have the death cert for Silas JNR, (or his siblings,) and if so, how long in the colony/State? Fingers crossed that the informant provided that info accurately ;) could help with your diligent searchings ;) ;) ;)
Cheers, JM
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I have narrowed the dates to between 1835 - 1840
Well it had to be before 1841 as Silas Jnr married that year :)
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The death cert for Letitia may also have the length of time in colony. I expect you are aware that a transcription is much cheaper and quicker than ordering from NSW BMDs. You can also ask for part of the certficate if you are just wanting that information. Have given the reg number for you.
1862 Letitia BARKER 72 died COOMA #3435
Judith
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Hi JM
I dont have a death cert for letitia or any of the chd only details of the burials. However I did request a death certificate for Silas and they sent me a Burial Certificate with very limited information. I have death certificates for ancestors in other branches but they dont have any rel details to the arrival in Australia.
Judith, thanks for your response, I wasnt aware you could get a transcription - I have only ever obtained full certificates from BDM. How do I go about obtaining a transcription.
Regards
Lynne
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Hi Lyn
The info on getting a transcription is on the NSW BMD site
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToSearch.htm#TranscriptionAgent
I haven't used them but other R'chatters have and I think the service is fairly much the same from each of them.
NSW BMD site also has a list of what you can hope to find on a certificate - always dependent, of course, on what information was given by the informant. There is also a list of certificate information on the Australia Resources Board of Rootschat - it is different for each state.
Let us know what you find!
Good luck! Judith
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Ships from England to NSW carrying female convicts, arriving 1836 - 1840
The ship prior to these departed England Apr 1835, so was too early.
Henry Wellesley (1)
17 Feb 1836
No steerage passengers
Elizabeth IV
12 Oct 1836
No steerage passengers
Sarah & Elizabeth
23 Apr 1837
No steerage passengers
Henry Wellesley (2)
22 Dec 1837
Cannot find document
John Renwick (1)
27 Oct 1838
9 passengers plus free women and their children
Planter (2)
9 Mar 1839
Five free females and ? children (no. of children might be fourteen)
Mary Anne III (1)
10 Nov 1839
two free females and four children
Surrey I (10)
13 Jul 1840
No steerage passengers
(this was the last ship from England carrying female convicts)
I see from Letitia's letter that she says "I do sincerely trust and pray that you may feel disposed to send me for I have nothing but the Parish to support me". Have you checked the parish records in Berkshire to see if they mention Letitia and the children coming off parish relief?
Debra
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Hi there,
Transcript agents can send you the document/s as email attachments, and so I order these as pdf files. I have found all three agents are reliable and prompt. Yesterday I placed an order with one of them and I have received confirmation email and expect to receive the transcript within two weeks.
Re Silas SNR's certificate ... Up until about 1856 ish, there was no civil registration, so the NSWBDM certificates are based on their holdings of Parish Quarterly Returns. Thus the Early Church Records (all start with "V" on the online index) should be read as thoough Births are in fact B for Baptisms, and Deaths are B for Burials.
I think Judith's suggestion would be sensible to order, its 1862, so it may have "years in the colony", but I would also think about ordering (speculative guesswork though) the 1880 one for Elizabeth RICHARDS, dau of Julius M and Letitia, registered at Maitland (death 7723/1880) "Julius v Silas" and with Letitia for her mother !I know for certain that those in the 1880's do have responses for the question "how long in the colonies" whereas many of the 1860's don't... Oops, re speculative guesswork ... I'm noting that in an 1848 an Elizabeth NOYES married a John RICHARDS in a Presbyterian service, ref V1848546 78/1848
The death cert for Letitia may also have the length of time in colony. I expect you are aware that a transcription is much cheaper and quicker than ordering from NSW BMDs. You can also ask for part of the certficate if you are just wanting that information. Have given the reg number for you.
1862 Letitia BARKER 72 died COOMA #3435
Judith
Cheers, JM
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AVRI index shows these marriages of Elizabeth, Hannah & Silas jnr:
NOYES, Elizabeth m. RICHARDS, John
Index Year: 1848
Reg Year: 1848
Reg State: New South Wales
Ref Number: V1848546 78
Parish: Butterwick; Hinton; Middlehope; Seaham, Presbyterian
NOYES, Hannah m. ROSSWELL, William
Index Year: 1846
Reg Year: 1846
Reg State: New South Wales
Ref Number: V1846504 31C
Parish: Black Creek, Bulwarra; Clifden; Hinton; Morpeth; Maitland; Hunter., Church of England
NOYES, Silas m. BUTLER, Ellen
Index Year: 1841
Reg Year: 1841
Reg State: New South Wales
Ref Number: V1841560 25C
Parish: Black Creek, Bulwarra; Clifden; Hinton; Morpeth; Maitland; Hunter., Church of England
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Some thoughts
NSW BDM marriage 1846 (V1846504 31C/1846) Hannah Noyes to William Rosswell, and there's an extracted IGI showing this would be 24 MAR 1846 (Oops, duplicating this bit, Merlin has been busy too ;) )
So I had a look at a SUBMITTED IGI (yes, I know, not to be relied on, but sometimes there's clues!) for Hannah Noyes :D and I spotted on the ONE submission:
Christening: 02 MAR 1834 Newbury, Berkshire, England
Death: 05 MAR 1858 Yackandandah, Victoria, Australia
Burial: 06 MAR 1858 Yackandandah, Victoria, Australia
I am unsure what you would expect to find on a record from Victoria for 1858, although I think Vic certificates have lots and lots of info,
here's the link to what's on the Vic records
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html
here's the link to the BDM for Vic, where I think you can pay online and download immediately...
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=getHistIdxSearchCriteria
Fingers crossed ;)
JM
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Hannah's death from VIC index:
ROTHWELL Hannah age 28yrs d. 1858 #8810X1880
Father: Noyse Charles
Mother: Letitia U
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As a direct descendant of Silas & Letitia Noyes. Here are some clues for you:1. Letitia Noyes (nee Partridge) Born 1793 at farnsborough, Berkshire. Christened May 5 1793 at Newbury, Berkshire. Died April 4 1862 in Snowy River Cooma N.S.W. On 24.7.1835 she wrote a letter to Viscount Brisbane in an attempt to speed up her attempt to join Silas in "Dagwood Farm", Maitland, N.S.W Silas died on 22nd February, 1848 in Petersham, N.S.W & Letitia remarried John Baker on 19.2.1852. Silas was tried in 1831 for stealing brass & sentanced to 7 years in Australia. Transported 1831 on the "Georgiana" & sent to Maitland to work for T.V. Bloomfield.
He was given a ticket of leave 1835 & certificate of freedom 1839. Their daughter was my ancestor (direct line to my grandmother). Hope this helps.
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Hi All,
I know this is all after the fact, but I am also looking for records to show when Letitia and her children arrived and I can not locate them. I did, however, find George Noyes (her son) arriving in 1844 on the 'Neptune' at the age of 29 - his record lists parents as Letitia and Silas both alive (it does not strictly say she is in the Colony but one assumes this as they are both mentioned together) If anyone sees this post and has any further info, I would be grateful to receive it as well. Deborah