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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: ladybird on Friday 28 May 10 09:06 BST (UK)
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Sorry this is going to be a long one but I'll try to put all the bits together.
I know it's going back a very long way, but I'm having difficulty with who's who in the early part of the tree I found in Google books.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/08ry/
Thomas Naters is my 5xg/grandfather, he was baptised in 1705 according to IGI and "living 1738" refers to the birth of his daughter Elizabeth who was my 4xg/grandmother (noted as a Yeoman on her baptism record)
I have found all (I think) his sibling's baptisms with father Ralph Naters. The only problem is that Thomas and a sister Elizabeth (1711) are baptised Chester le Street and all the others are at St Andrews, Newcastle. Is this wrong or feasible?
Back to the original question...
Who are Matthew (smothered in William Brandon's pit)
Cuthbert (Tailor's app)
Were they brothers of Ralph?
As for the really early ones...oh so tantalising, but who goes where??
Thanks for reading this, Sylvia
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Nicholas Natters married Margaret Footrop sptr at St Nicholas Newcastle on June 6th 1726.
The Brandling family owned much of South Gosforth and part of Jesmond, which latter was an extended part of St Andrews parish, Newcastle. Sandyford lane was the boundary of the borough of Newcastle for a long period. Sandyford Stone seems to have been a house owned by Mr John Andrew in 1749 though it may have been let of course. John Natters of Long Benton the next parish to the east married at St Nicholas in 1760.
An overman at that time was usually a skilled man in charge of mining operations, so he might have been employed away from his usual place for some years.
Hope this is of some use,Peter
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Thanks Peter ;D this is an interesting family.
I found this on Nicholas too...
In 1739 Sir James Clavering the then proprietor of Hodshon surface land conveyed to Nicholas Naters (who signed his name Natters) Sandiver Close a messuage or cottage house in the same and 4 rigs or butts of land in the Mill Close
On the tree it says he was a 'waller' is that to do with mining as well? I had visions of him building those wonderful stone walls.
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I've also searched for info on William Brandons pit (mine) but all entries seem to be a lot later than the death of Mathew in 1623
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Sylvia,
A couple of Naters snippets- perhaps too modern for you.
Book " The Histories and Antiquities of the Town and County of Newcastle upon Tyne" by John Brand, published 1 Mar 1789.
Listed as one of the many subscribers was " Mr Joseph Naters of Sandifordstone"
In early Newcastle Trade Directories he is listed (up to 1801) as brewer .
Then also in directories R. Naters appears as brewer and wine and spirit merchant, from early 1820s ( no directories available to me between 1807-1820) until 1847, R. Naters ( sometimes entered as Ralph) business address "Side" or "8 Side" , home listed as Sandyford, Sandyfordstone, or Snadyfordstone bridge. 1847 edition has R at Sandyford Lodge.
( I was interested to see that Ralph brewed "Porter" as well as beers - World famous Dublin Guinness Stout was originally called " Porter" ! )
Michael
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Sidegate was the extension of Newgate St outside the town wall at New gate,now called Percy St. St Andrews church was just inside the gate.
There is a plan of Jesmond with field names in the Northumberland County History Vol XIII showing Mill close and Sandyford Close in the area now called Jesmond Vale. Sir James Clavering was the owner 1707-1740 before Andrew. Perhaps Sanddiver was a corruption of Sandyford.
Sandyford Lane was also known as Sandyfordstone Lane
Charlton's "Newcastle Town" published 1889 refers to Rennison's mill at Jesmond vale and an old feud between the miller and Old Ralph Naters the brewer over a right of way which came to fisticuffs.
Wallers were employed underground building stone supports for the roofing.
Peter
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Peter, there was/is also a thoroughfare called just "Side", running downhill from St Nicholas's Cathedral to the Tyne.
Michael
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;D Thanks guys, lovely stuff :-*
That Ralph, merchant and brewer, (1786-1862) married Dorothy Trewhitt (9 children)
and was the son of
Joseph, brewer, (1737-?), married Ann Henzall) (10 children)
Joseph was the son of
Nicholas, the waller (1703-1752) who married Margaret Footrop.(5 children)
Nicholas was the son of
Ralph of Sidgate, overman (1677-1724) haven't found his wife yet, but have narrowed down 8 children including Thomas (1705-?)
Still haven't found Cuthbert or Mathew as brothers of Ralph (1677-1724) so was looking at Ralph of Whickham, the father on the tree. Is that the way you read it?
There is a possible baptism in 1612, and marriage to Frances Vicars in 1627 (a bit young maybe) Chester le Street. I assume the "dead in 1659" bit refers to his son Cuthbert's apprenticeship.
Also a couple of tantalising bits from Durhamrecordsonline....
Whickham burials 1576-1699 updated
There were epidemics of bubonic plague in 1610, 1626, 1645, 1646, and 1648, corresponding to similar epidemics in other parts of the country.
[Note: date between 12 Aug - 3 Sep]
15 Sep 1610 Isabell Nattresse, died on the Fell of the plague
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Burials, Gateshead District - Record Number: 277634.2
Location: Whickham
Church: St. Mary
Denomination: Anglican
24 Oct 1645 Frances Nattresse, widow
[Note: Note in margin next to this group of deaths says "Dead in the plauge in lodges upon the fell since the 28th April, to & when the 6th Jan except them which are markt in the mergent with this mark :A:". This burial is not marked with an A, so we assume it is a plague victim who died in the quarantine lodges.[/i][/i]*
Do you see my dilemma? All these lovely snippets, but where do they fit? ::)
many thanks, Sylvia
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Still haven't found Cuthbert or Mathew as brothers of Ralph (1677-1724) so was looking at Ralph of Whickham, the father on the tree. Is that the way you read it?
There is a possible baptism in 1612, and marriage to Frances Vicars in 1627 (a bit young maybe) Chester le Street. I assume the "dead in 1659" bit refers to his son Cuthbert's apprenticeship.
Ooops no...I think I've got this wrong..too far back! All these Ralphs are so confusing!
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The Matthew smothered in the pit was buried in St Andrews so the pit must have been in that parish. The pit owner was William Brandling and the Brandlings owned mineral rights in Jesmond, St Andrews parish. Unfortunately at that early date pits were widespread in the area immediately north of Newcastle and not generally very well documented. There were complaints about the danger from unfenced pits to travellers straying off the Gt North road. There was an abandoned pit in Jesmond Vale mentioned in the 1889 description, but it was probably a later version.
peter
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Henry Brandling mayor of Newcastle buried 1578 left in his will to his 2nd son William among other property a close called Sandford Close. Not to be confused with his nephew William who came to blows in St Andrews churchyard after being called a Scots mongrel. William Brandling the son died in 1595 but left a son of is own underage. This must be the William Brandling who owned the pit.
One of the men smothered with Matthew bears my surname.
Incidentally in June 1578 the town of Newcastle complained against a market in Gateshead allegedly set up by Richard Nattress of Gateshead Mercer.
The details apparently in Archeologia Aeliana New series {2nd?}vol ii p226.
Peter
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Thanks Peter
I haven't been able to find the reference to that book but wouldn't it be great to be able to browse through the actual book. It's so full of interesting stuff
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The books are;
Newcastle Town by R J Charlton Walter Scott Kenilworth Press 1889
History of Newcastle and Gateshead 16th century by Richard Welford pub Walter Scott London 1885
Victoria County History of Northumberland Vol Xll
The name Natrass is from the place near Alston and seems to have been commonest in County Durham with a lesser proportion in Cumberland and quite rare in Northumberland. Presumably they were mostly hard rock miners and didn't need to move much until the lead mines failed in the late 19th century. Perhaps your man was something of a mining expert. The book mentions an overman for the town moor named Hall living near the New gate. The mineral rights for the pits on the moor were owned by the freemen of Newcastle. Just a speculation.
Peter
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Hi
Ralph Naters is my Great x3 grandfather, through his reputed daughter Isabella Coulson. Ralph's will left everything to her and her husband, Joseph Simpson Arnison.
Regards
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;D yes...a few skeletons in the cupboard there.
Ralph's wife Dorothy (Trewhitt) left him sometine between 1841-1851 and went to live with their daughter Dorothy Lotherington....must have been a bit annoyed with him :-X
Sylvia
Oh PS I was sent a pic of James and Isabella Arnison, do you have it?
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I've got that one, Priarie Chicken sent it me. She's my second cousin. We met up last October in Newcastle, and I've got a few photos of our visit, including the brewery, pubs and Ralph Naters' chimney piece, once in one of the pubs, and which he donated to the old mansion house. I've also got copies of, Joseph, Nicholas and Ralph's wills. If you need copies or would like to see the photos let me know.
Regards
Heather
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Thanks Heather
I'd love the pics of the brewer, pub and chimney piece please, I have the copies of the wills.
This is a fascinating family and I'm really surprised there are no paintings of them, unless they are in a private (family?) collection somewhere.
I'll PM you
Sylvia
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Should have said. When we went to Newcastle, we went every where asking about photos, but nothing. We were shown around the council buildings, and in the main hall, all the names of the Sheriffs were carved into the walls. I'll send you the photos that we took, but whether you'll be able to make out the names, is another thing.
Heather