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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: dottie43 on Sunday 13 June 10 20:22 BST (UK)
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Hi guys
I was wondering if any one can help with these folks of mine.
William glendinning was born in 1840 at laggan inverness to john and catherine nee stewart and I cant find any sign of them at all, no deaths or even a marriage for the parents or any more kids, I have william with his family in 1881 and his death.
On williams birth it says john was from portaferry in ireland so I am beginning to think they maybe went back there.
I forgot to say they were travellers so maybe this is the wrong board.
Thanks for any help Dottie
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Who, when and where did William marry?
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One source has William Glendinning married to Jemima Kelbie with 11 children. she was born 1841 and died 1922 Elgin. He died in 1919 Maycroft, Elgin. I have sent a pm.
akc
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Hi sancti and akc
Thanks for your replies.
sancti, On the birth certs for williams kids it says they were illigitamate so I presume he never married their mother who was jemima kelbie.
akc Thanks for the pm I will have a look at that site, I do have a few certs for william and his family its more his parents john and catherine I am looking for and dont know where else to look.
Thanks again guys for your help Dottie
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Hi Dottie
I have this family in my late wifes tree and agree with you that all the childrens birth certs declare them as being born illigetimately. I also have not been able to find William and Jemima's marriage, so perhaps you are correct in assuming that they never did marry, or maybe they married in the traditional travellers fashion!
However, from research that I have done at the Moray Heritage Centre (ref NM290459 for Jemima), an article from the Northern Scot, dated 15 July 1922 (notice of Jemima Ann Kelbie death), it states that she was the widow of the late William Glendinning. Her death cert also declares her as being the widow of William Glendinning.
Bill
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What were the years of birth for their children?
Was William named on the certificates?
Where were the children born?
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The children I know off are :
RACHEL - b. 1862 (no cert as yet), married Allan Stewart.
MARY - b. 1864 (no cert as yet)
FRANCIS - b. 9 Aug 1864, Edingight, Banff.
MARGARET - b. 8 Apr 1867, Cluny, Aberdeenshire.
JESSIE - b. 3 Feb 1869, Glenlivat, Banff, married Ebenezer Hay McMillan.
CATHERINE CAIRNS - 3 Apr 1871, Kincardine O'Neil, Aberdeen, married William Rennie.
AGNES - b. 27 Apr 1874, married William McGeachie.
GEORGINA - b. 3 May 1876, Persie, Perthshire.
JOAN - b. 21 Dec 1878, New Deer, Aberdeen.
JEMIMA ANN - b. 11 Sep 1881, New Deer, Aberdeen, married James Stewart.
all, except Jemima Ann, have William Glendinning as their father.
Bill
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1871 census
William Glendennie 29 Traveling Basket Maker born Peterhead
Jemima Glendennie 28
Rachel Glendennie 9
Mary Glendennie 7
Francis Glendennie 5
Jessie Glendennie 2
Address: Middleton Of Rattray Barn, Crimond
County: Aberdeenshire
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In addition to my last ....
In my 'bucket' system I have a note that William and Jemima were married 4 Oct 1915 in Blythswood, Glasgow. I do not, as yet, have any confirmation of this.
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1891 census
William Glendining 49 Basket maker born Peterhead
Jemima Glendining 49
Agnes Glendining 17
Georgeina Glendining 14
Joan Glendining 11
Jemima Glendining 9
Address: Woods Tourhill in a Tent, Savoch
County: Aberdeenshire
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1901 census
William Glendinning 59 Pedlar Dealer In Harn Ware born Peterhead
Jemima Glendinning 59
Joan Glendinning 22
Jemina Glendinning 19
Address: West End Street, Fochabers, Moray
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Hi guys thanks for all your help.
sancti thanks for the census where did you find them?
Williams name is on the certs I have.
Bill thanks for all your info, I had all the kids names but don't have all the certs, I have rachels birth and death certs and her dad was john haggerty and not william's, who do you have as jemima's dad as i have william on her death cert. Where did you get the mariage info from as i have checked scotlands people for that year and the only william was not him, but it does say on his death cert that he was married to jemima I still think it must have been a travellers wedding. do you have any info on williams mum and dad.
I come from the georgina line and my friend of near 30 years who i have since found out is my third cousin comes from jessie, which line did your wife come from?
Thanks again for all your help Dottie
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I found them on Ancestry but can't see William or Jemima in 1861
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Hi sancti
Thanks for your reply, sorry to be a pest but was there any sign of his mum and dad on any of the census? Dottie
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The census records consistently give his place of birth as Peterhead but you say he was born Laggan, do you have evidence of his birthplace?
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I looked at 1841 census for all male Glendinnings. Nothing sticks out as being his family and all records are for central and south Scotland. There are 2 for Fife who were born in England
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1881 census
William Glendining 40 born Peterhead
Jemima Glendining 40 born St Nicholas, Aberdeenshire
Jessie Glendining 12 born Glenlevit, Banffshire
Katherine Glendining 10 born Kincardine Oneil, Abdnshire
Agnes Glendining 7 born New Deer, Abdnshire
Georgina Glendining 5 born Percy, Perthshire
Jean Glendining 2 born New Deer
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1851 census has this record but you would need to check the original for transcription errors
Jemima Collie
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Born
Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire
Full household
J Collie 38
Mary Collie 46
William Collie 23
Mary Mori 21
Jemima Collie 9
Isabella Collie 6
Catherine Duthie 19
Margaret Duthie 21
Christina Bremner 77
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Hi sancti
I have a birth for william saying he was born to john and catherine nee stewart at laggan in 1840, he was 40 in 1881 and on his death cert his parents are given as john and catherine so I was presuming I had the right one, could I be wrong?
The family you gave me in 1841, I don't think they are mine as I have none of that second names in my tree.
Thanks again for all your help Dottie
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Hi Dottie
I can't find him in 1841
What was his occupation on his death record?
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What was the occupation of John on William's death record?
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Hi sancti
On william's birth cert his dad was a labourer of portaferry in ireland, he was still down as labourer when william died, william is also listed as labourer when he died in elgin.
I wish I could find john and catherine so I can get further back.
Thanks Dottie
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There are no records in that area on the 1841 census for a John and Catherine Glendinning
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Hi sancti
I dont know how they could have just disappeared of the face of the earth.
Oh well I will just have to keep looking, thanks for the help Dottie
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Hi Dottie and Bill
See you were missing the birth entries for daughters Rachel and Mary from your list. These look like possibles from IGI:
RACHEL HEGGERTY Birth:19 MAR 1860 Inverurie, Aberdeen
Parents:JOHN HEGGERTY and JEMIMA KELBY
MARY LAING KELBY Birth: About 03 APR 1862 Inverurie, Aberdeen, Scotland
Parents: JEMIMA ANN KELBY - although it says 'about', this is actual extract from the statutory registers.
Monica :)
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Hi monica
Thanks for the births i had rachel's but not marys
Dottie
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Hi, anyone still out there?
I'm trying to trace my grandmother and grandfather Jemima Glendinning and James Stewart.
I can see Jemima (19) in the 1891 census in this post and her date of birth, but I can find her by date of birth on ScotlandsPeople.gov.uk or ancestry.co.uk
They were married in Grantown in 1902, but other than that and whats here I cant find much more about them.
Can anyone help?
Best Regards
Neil Stewart
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Hi Neil
Welcome to RootsChat :)
As mentioned here, Jemima Ann's parents, William and Jemima, do not look to have officially married so the children's births were registered under the mother's maiden name of Kelby/ie.
As you saw, there were details above for Jemima Jnr's birth in 1881. This is how it shows on SP if you want to view and download the image:
Jemima Ann Glen KELBY 1881 - ref 237/B 61 - Savoch
With her birth in 1881, just after the 1881 census, you then have her here in both 1891 and 1901.
1891 census
William Glendining 49 Basket maker born Peterhead
Jemima Glendining 49
Agnes Glendining 17
Georgeina Glendining 14
Joan Glendining 11
Jemima Glendining 9
Address: Woods Tourhill in a Tent, Savoch Aberdeenshire
1901 census
William Glendinning 59 Pedlar Dealer In Harn Ware born Peterhead
Jemima Glendinning 59
Joan Glendinning 22
Jemina Glendinning 19
Address: West End Street, Fochabers, Moray
You have her marriage in 1902 from what you say. Have you tried finding her and husband James and family in 1911? That would be your next step if you have done so already.
Possible death for Jemima at the age of 59 in 1940 in Mortlach. There are references to this death on SP under either Glendinning or Stewart.
Monica :)
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There is another connected family post here with more details on the various family members www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=513747.0
Monica
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The census records consistently give his place of birth as Peterhead but you say he was born Laggan, do you have evidence of his birthplace?
If they were travellers, he could have been born in Peterhead and baptised later, when the family were in Kilmonivaig.
What, exactly, does his baptism record actually say?
Incidentally this is a classic case of when you need to note which parish an event occurred in. I see that the baptism was recorded in the parish of Kilmonivaig, which is in Lochaber, not in the neighbouring parish of Laggan, which is in Badenoch, so the Laggan in question is likely to be the one at the north end of Loch Lochy, where the Caledonian Canal passes through Laggan Locks on its way north to Inverness, rather than the better known Laggan between Newtonmore and Loch Laggan. It is the latter that mostly comes up if you search online for 'Laggan'.
See http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=57.0346&lon=-4.8132&layers=5&b=1 - this is the Laggan in the parish of Kilmonivaig, Inverness-shire
and http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=57.0181&lon=-4.2835&layers=5&b=1 which is the Laggan in the parish of Laggan, Inverness-shire
There are other Laggans in other parishes in other counties too.
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As mentioned here, Jemima Ann's parents, William and Jemima, do not look to have officially married so the children's births were registered under the mother's maiden name of Kelby/ie.
The ones whose birth certificates William signed should be indexed under both surnames, but he apparently didn't sign Jemima Jr's one (see above), so it will be indexed only under her mother's surname.
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Just out of sheer curiosity
1881: birth of Jemima Ann Glen... Kelbie, Savoch
1886: marriage of Jemima Kelbie to William McPhee, Dallas
1903: birth of Jemima Kelbie, Bellie
1918: death of Jemima Kelbie, aged 15, Edinburgh St Giles
1917: death of Jemima Kelbie or McPhee, aged 47, Perth
1922: death of Jemima Kelbie or Glendinning, aged 81, Elgin
1967: birth of Jemima Kelbie, Kirkcaldy
1989: death of Jemima McArthur Kelbie, aged 82, Polmont
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Thanks Monica,
I havent been on here for ages, and have just noticed that you had got back to me.
Since my last post, I have found the 1911 census and from that found my grandfather, James Stewart's birth date and place.
He was born 27th Oct 1871 in Drumblade, Aberdeenshire and baptised in Strichen 14th Nov 1871. The son of travellers too, Donald and Maggie Stewart.
I also found Jemima on Scotlands people, Jemima Ann Glendinning Kelby, Savoch, 11th Sept 1881.
1911 James and Jemima were living in Bellie, Fochabers.
1915 they were living in Beachans, Edinkillie and they were at least there untill 1923, but likely longer.
Jemima did die at Backhill Mortlach in 1940. The family had a farm/croft at Kininvie.
Now I just need to find out when they moved there and when James died.
This is a bit of a mystery so far.
Again, any help would be greatly appreciated.
Best Regards
Neil
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Another thread about the same family
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=513747.0
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Hi Neil
Sorry for not replying before but I have just noticed your post.
I see that your James is the son of Donald & Margaret Stewart, my Donald is also the son of a Donald & Margaret Stewart, do you think these could be brothers?
I don't know the parents of this two, do you?
Dottie
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Hi Dottie,
If your Donald is Donald Stewart born in Cairney on 31st March 1874, married to Georgina Glendinning then, yes I believe they Donald and James were brothers, and that they also married Glendinning sisters Jemima and Georgina.
I see there is a Hazel (HazelAberdeen) on here who is Georgina's granddaughter.
How are you related to Donald?
I am a grandson of James.
I have to admit, I know nothing personally about my grandfather and grandmother though.
Just a few snippets I heard from my father.
Digging around in Ancestry, it looks like Donald's parents (Donald and Margaret that is) could be James Stewart and Margaret Whyte. Also Margaret's parents could be another James Stewart and Mary Stewart.
Neil
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Hi Neil
Thank you for your reply.
Yes this is the Donald I meant, I am the great granddaughter of Donald & Georgina, I have looked for their parents for years, do you have proof that these are really their parents?
I have seen a few post from hazel, I believe her & my dad are full cousins.
Where do you live?
Dottie
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Digging around in Ancestry, it looks like Donald's parents (Donald and Margaret that is) could be James Stewart and Margaret Whyte. Also Margaret's parents could be another James Stewart and Mary Stewart.
Do be wary of believing anything on A******y. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0
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Thanks Forfarian
I have been trying to check everything on Scotland People first then xref with Ancestry.
Best Regards
Neil
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I have been trying to check everything on Scotland People first then xref with Ancestry.
Good, but you can probably omit the second stage.
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Hi Dottie and everyone else out there.
I'm in Aberdeen by the way Dottie.
Donald and Margaret Stewart are definitely the names of your Donald's parents.
Over the years it looks like they sometimes went by (or were recorded as) Stuart not Stewart.
Your Donald was baptised in Strichen in 1874 (as was my grandfather James in 1871)
Parents recorded as Donald and Margaret Stewart in 1874 - Stuart in 1871 (no image in Scotlands People but recorded there)
Their birth certificates record them both as illegitimate (Stewart) but the baptisms show Donald as the father.
also there is a record here stating they are Donald's parents
http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/people/people_report_view.asp?REF_ID=NM274891
There is a census in 1881 in Rathen (Cairnbulg Links), Aberdeenshire showing what looks like the family, albeit the ages and birthplaces look a little mixed up.
On James wedding certificate (1902) it states that parents as deceased
There is no sign of the parents on 1891 or 1901 census. 1891 census both James and Donald have parted ways.
I'm not 100% sure of this, but I think from research that
Margaret died in Fraserburgh 1881
Donald died in Rhynie 1883 after marrying again
I have a copy of both these of these death certificates with their parents names too.
Please correct me if wrong on any of this as I'd really like to know for sure myself.
Best Regards
Neil
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also there is a record here stating they are Donald's parents
http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/people/people_report_view.asp?REF_ID=NM274891
That information comes from an application to the Keith Parochial Board in 1915. I think the originals of these records are held by Aberdeen City Archives and there are microfilms in Elgin Library. The record will contain quite a lot of information about Donald and Georgina's family and their situation - the Keith PB records are very detailed. Probably worth taking a look at it.
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Hi Folks
Update for you.
I eventually found that my grandfather James Stewart died in 1946 in Monikie, Fife.
28/12/46.
Strangely enough I recognised my fathers signature on the death certificate I got from Scotland People, and it hadn't changed from him being a young man of 24 in 1946 to his dying day.
All the best
Neil Stewart
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I am a bit late to the party. But I am researching the same line...specifically Ebenezer Hay McMillan. I wondered, for those of you related, do you know if there is any Gypsy ancestry? Just trying to explain the dark skin and thick black hair trait which I think is traditionally associated with Gypsies and not the Scottish/Highland Traveller groups...?