RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: Tees on Saturday 03 July 10 00:36 BST (UK)
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Dear Rootschatters,
This afternoon I was on phone with the Vital Records Division in Virginia to confirm whether they had received the letter and cheque from my aunt.
The lady rattled off how many requests they had received, etc...without giving me an opportunity to explain the situation. I was speaking to the same person I spoke to two months ago.
She replied that she had received my aunt's letter & form along with the check. She proceeded to say that they cannot search for my aunt's father without knowing where he died or which hospital he died in.
I was shocked because she herself told me to put down on the form and in the letter asking for State-Wide and explain the situation as to why there is no information.
I asked to speak with her supervisor or boss. And the supervisor rattled off same things to me. After explaining a bit to her, she is willing to try again and gets someone who is very, very good with searches in her division--a Mr. Expert. Interestingly, she said she looked at the computer and it seems there is no record on Michael W. Costigan with an exact death date. ??? I appealed to her to help us out. She simply said she would try her best.
It is appalled that the public servants like to work minimally for their paychecks and do not want to work any harder than necessary. I still do not understand why the lady told me what to do then did the opposite when receiving my auntie's letter, form and check. It seems the lady at the division completely disregarded the letter and the printout of the Social Security Death Index.
Now I am at the wit's end as how to help my auntie to find her father's death record. We only know that her father, Michael W. Costigan, was born in Brooklyn and died somewhere in VA according to the Social Security Death Index.
We were unable to obtain his birth record without a proof of his death record. Social Security Administration won't help my aunt by providing her the information as to where he passed away. We could not ask the Veterans Administration because he was inhonorably discharged (for what reasons we do not know).
We do have his birth date on one of the court documents that my aunt has inherited from her Mother. Her parents were separated for many, many years before they finalized their divorce. In the reality, they were truly divorced even if it was not legalized.
My aunt has very, very little information on her Father. All of the information she has on him are based on the documents such as the court papers, marriage certificate and her birth certificate.
Is there any Rootschatter here who has similar experience to this problem? Or anyone who has a better expertise than I as to how to get around the problem?
I sincerely welcome any assistance and it will be most gratefully received. I just want to bring a closure to my Aunt's painful chapter with her Father.
She has been searching for her Father for past 25 years to no avail after her Mother passed away.
Sincerely yours,
Tees and his Auntie
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Dear Rootschatters,
Here's the information on Michael W. Costigan as stated on Social Security Death Index:
Born in Brooklyn to the parents: William Costigan and Josephine Wallace on 17 Nov 1914. We know his parents from the censuses and his marriage certificate.
Died in Virginia (VA) ? on 18 Oct 1973.
Last known address was in Brooklyn, NY.
He did served in the US Army during the Second World War in England.
Not much information, I am sorry but that is what we know about him. I found the censuses on his family and other various records on his family as well for my aunt.
The sad thing is that his father and baby sibling died in the flu epidemic in 1918 which left his mother to rear him and his siblings on her own.
His middle name is Wallace--after his mother's maiden surname.
Hope this help you a bit to help us out. We are wondering if it is worthwhile to request a paid help from this man who do his living in finding people as shown on the telly called the Locator.
Kind regards,
Tees
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Hello,
Thank you very much for your quick reply! Now it is indeed a brickwall.
I got the conflicting information from the SSA and the VA.
VA did tell us that they did inform the SSA of his death but they do not have the file on him where we could find out where he died in. We still have not gotten any reply from the VA for two years now. ???
SSA thinks otherwise and they insisted that it is the state of Virginia. ???
We did apply to the NYC Dept of Health three times and they still confirmed that they do not have any record on him. ??? $15 each time.
How do we go forward and break the brickwall with so little information?
This is one of the most frustrating experiences I have with my Aunt's family. I personally have two big brickwalls that have not broken in my family tree.
But hers should not be that difficult as it is in very relatively recent times.
Awaiting your further input.
Kind regards,
Tees
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Hi again,
How do you tell apart from the State of VA from the Veterans Administration on the SSDI?
Please kindly advise.
As to ordering the copy of his SS application, it won't help us as we already have the information such as his birth date, the names of his parents, etc. It also won't tell us where he died. That's the part of the problem.
Thanks,
Tees
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VA never means Virginia in this context.
OK.
The place of death is simply not indicated on the SSDI, and the Social Security Department may well not have any record of the place or circumstances of his death.
Oh, really? It seems that both of us are looking at the different SSDI. I think you are not based in the USA as you called the Social Security Department whereas we called it the Social Security Administration. The SSDI do show either the last known residence or place of death.
You've drawn a blank with the Veterans Administration, so I suggest New York is your next port of call.
Apparently, you do not see my post above where I said that we have applied to the NYC Dept of Health THREE times to no avail.
Thank you very much for your efforts to help us out.
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If you've only tried New York City, you might want to check New York state. You could request a look-up in the death index as described in this blog post - http://ny-genes.blogspot.com/2008/03/new-york-state-vital-records-microfiche.html I'm not sure if they have that time frame, but it's worth a shot.
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Hello Shellyesq!
Unfortunately, the look-ups limited to certain years--I forgot--that means 1973 is too recent for them.
That's the trouble as we cannot throw $$ without knowing where he died. He could died in NJ or in LI or Upstate NY.
That's the trouble.
My Aunt is hestiating to throw her money away after our few attempts. NYC Dept of Health does keep money if there is no record found.
I will talk to her about trying the NYS Vital Records Dept again.
Again, we do not have enough information to go on--they would need to know WHERE he died.
That's the trouble especially if it is from the recent years.
Kind regards,
Tees
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Apparently, you do not see my post above where I said that we have applied to the NYC Dept of Health THREE times to no avail.
I did see that you'd contacted NY and had acknowledged it by amending my post before your (extraordinarily sarcastic) reply was posted.
Since you obviously don't believe me, perhaps you will believe this guide:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rwguide/lesson10.htm
from which you will see that the place of death is indeed not shown.
I shall not participate any further in this thread.
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Dear AVM228,
Thank you very much for that link. That is very helpful.
I will relay what you said about the place of death to my Aunt.
But the way you wrote in your post is not helpful as well. I decided to not to argue with you as you are a "stranger" to me and I have no interest in fighting with someone online whom I do not know well. Please understand this.
Perhaps I did not explain myself more clearly to you in my previous posts--like the link said "not necessarily mean a place of death"--it means it may be or not--for me, I personally often find my relatives died in the place which was listed on the SSDI either at their last residence or last known address.
However, you are right, it is not a place of death. I am sorry if I did not explain it well to you.
BUT the link you provided is very clear on (VA). That's a good news yet it conflicts with other information I found on the SSDI.
Again, I thank you for your kind efforts to help my Aunt out.
Kind regards,
Tees
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Dear Rootschatters,
I recently called for my Aunt at the family cemetery we know that his parents were buried at.
They were kind enough to confirm that he is not there. At the same, we were able to get a death year for my Aunt's grandmother so she could send for the death certificate.
My Aunt asked me to ask you: She would like to know if anyone has this "unique" problem like hers and managed to suceed to find further information. That's her purpose for asking on this forum.
Any helpful suggestion as to take next step?
We are debating about ordering a death certificate from Albany but it would take 5 to 6 months to process a request according to one website. :o
It is quite pricey comparing to "local" death certificare providing you know where a person died.
I said he can died in one of Tri-States. He could have died in New Jersey as Brooklyn is just across the water.
But this thought occurred to me...what about the telephone directories? It would be helpful to pinpoint where he was in the 1970s? Hope anyone knows a good source that we can ask for someone to look up for us.
We certainly welcome any helpful advice or ideas. Even your experiences as to how to overcame this similar situation like ours.
Kind regards,
Tees
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Tees:
I don't think I would limit my search to neighbouring states. While October isn't necessarily a common time to take a vacation, he may have been away from his home state when he passed away.
Also, I don't believe you mentioned his occupation in this or your other thread. His WWII enlistment record states:
"Civil Occupation: Ticket, station, and express agents, transportation."
Could that provide any clues for finding him prior to 1973, I wonder?
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Hi Lisa in California!
It's always nice to hear from other Rootschatter.
Anything is possible in this situation. The trouble is that Michael Costigan left my Aunt's mother for many decades before he agreed to finalize the divorce which is only few years before his death.
The last employer my Aunt learnt through the divorce papers he was with is at the restuarant. I forgot what he was doing in his capacity there.
My Aunt grew up fatherless and did not have any contact with him or his family because of her Mother.
My Aunt is Deaf and in these days, she cannot call her relatives.
She did not get any letters or anything from him or his family.
The only information she has on him is the documents we have on him (barring his birth certificate and death certificate) and the SSDI.
The good news is that we can get the death certificate from Albany, NY in 6 to 8 weeks as opposed to 5-6 months. I was reading on a wrong page as it was on genealogy (anything that is over 50 or 100 years old) as opposed to the "recent" records.
We are hestitating about it because we really do not know where he died. That's the trouble.
Like you said, he can die anywhere.
My Aunt made a good point: if he died anywhere, how is it possible that the death was report to the SSA (Social Security Administration) with accurate information (birth date and social security number)? It had to be one of his family that filed a report and collect one-time sum from the SSA for funeral expenses.
I have been thinking...would it help a lot if we were to write to the congressman or representative of the US Congress to help us to ask the Veterans Administration and the SSA to give us the information that my Aunt has been seeking for over 25 years?
Any ideas? They will be greatly received by us.
Thank you for your time and reply, Lisa!
Kind regards,
Tees
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Hi Tees:
I don't know if it would help to contact a political person for help with his papers. You could try posting a new topic on this board, asking for suggestions of how to obtain them (of course, referencing this thread, too).
"My Aunt made a good point: if he died anywhere, how is it possible that the death was report to the SSA (Social Security Administration) with accurate information (birth date and social security number)? It had to be one of his family that filed a report and collect one-time sum from the SSA for funeral expenses."
I don't think family had to necessarily report his death. Most adults carry identification with them. Even if he was away from home, in most cases, it would be easy enough to identify him. Also, if he was staying at a hotel or some other place, he would have had to give his personal information in order to reserve a room.
I'm not too sure what you mean about collecting a one-time sum?
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Hi Lisa,
One-sum payment of $255 is made for the funeral expenses. That's what my Aunt meant.
Yes, you are correct but it is 1973. And to my knowledge, no one walks around with their social security number. The driver's license may be the only form of identification on him--it was in the paper form if I remember.
I have no idea how one could pull the SS number back then.
That is why my Aunt thinks it is a family member who reported his death.
My Aunt is going to send for the death certificate via Albany, NY this week after she gets recuperated from her leg troubles. We will see if they comes up with anything.
I will call the cemeteries that caters to the veterans. We are not sure but we know he was demoted and dishonourly discharged.
Let's hope they would be kind enough to help me out for my aunt's sake.
I will think a bit on asking a representative/congressman to help us out. Not sure if it worths any effort.
Again, thank you so much for your post. I do hope someone would take time to share their experiences of finding further information on a very little information in this "modern" time of ours.
Kind regards,
Tees
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And to my knowledge, no one walks around with their social security number. The driver's license may be the only form of identification on him--it was in the paper form if I remember.
I have no idea how one could pull the SS number back then.
1973 - many older people would carry SS card and the # would be on a driver's license.
Veteran cemetery locator - only national cemeteries
gravelocator.cem.va.gov/
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Hi Susan!
I never know that SS number would be listed on the driver's license back then. I only remember it was in the paper form--blue-coloured typewritten one.
NYS still use this paper form only for the interim driver's license or permit.
I will ask my Dad as he usually have a good memory about it.
You probably are right about carrying the SS card on person. It's a no-no today--guess it is a different time and different world back then. :)
If that is true, then that probably explains why the SSDI has the information on Michael W. Costigan.
I have not gotten around to call one of two national cemeteries. Will try them tomorrow.
Many thanks for taking time to reply to this post. It is always good to hear from you!
Kind regards,
Tees
PS I have tried that locator yesterday. It does not even show my Grandparents! I know that they are buried in a national cemetery. It happened to me when I went to the cemetery and could not find his plot information on the locator kiosk there.
I have to ask a gentleman who worked there to give me the information. So, that's why I am going to call them instead.
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http://gravelocator.cem.va.gov/j2ee/servlet/NGL_v1
very slow to load - National veteran grave locator.
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Hi Rootschatters,
Here's the update on this search for Michael W. Costigan's death:
1) national veteran grave locator did not turn up anything on him
2) I managed to get some info off the US Dept of Veterans Affairs BIRLS Death File on Ancestry.com--no major breakthrough here but it confirms the SS Death Index's info.
3) My aunt was against throwing money away on unknown results--so that means we did not get any death certificate from Albany, NY.
Any idea as to where to find a reliable confirmation on where he died in so we could obtain the death certificate?
My Aunt is getting on in her years now and is not well lately.
I would love to find this piece of paper on her father's death so we can get his birth certificate to complete her family genealogy. She was planning to make presents to her children but her father is the only person to hold it up.
I hope someone here has a better idea or suggestion as to where we can press on in finding his death record.
Thank you for your help in advance,
Tees
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Do you have anything that gives his location after the war? Any family members of his who were in touch with him & living/died in the US post-war?
New Jersey is two bridges or tunnels away from Brooklyn, so it's not terribly likely that someone would go to a hospital or nursing home in New Jersey from Brooklyn. A common path of migration for someone who wanted to get out of Brooklyn and to the suburbs is to Long Island.
If all else fails, maybe someone can try to order the certificate as a gift for your aunt?