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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: pablo1 on Monday 12 July 10 06:38 BST (UK)
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Looking to fill in some gaps concerning these families:
According to one resource, Edward Robinson, was the son of Alexander Robinson of Ballymena, Co. Antrim. Edward was b. 17 Feb. 1849 and went into business with John Cleaver in 1870. Edward became a J.P. and lived at Lismara, Whiteabbey.
1. John Cleaver, b. abt. 1842 m. Mary Ann Spence
2. Arthur Spence Cleaver, b. abt 1870 m. 1905 Adelaide Pollock
2. John Martin Cleaver, b. abt. 1871
2. Mabel Cleaver, b. abt. 1874 m. 1901 Edward Arthur Robinson, son of his partner
2. Sir James Frederick Cleaver, b. abt 1875
2. Edward Arthur Cleaver, b. abt. 1879
2. Florence Edith Cleaver m. 1911 Norman MacNaughton
2. Eileen Martha Esther Cleaver m. 1914 Charles Mitchell Clegg
***Corrections and additional information always appreciated***
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Probably not really what you are looking for but the Robinson & Cleaver Building can still be seen on Donegall Square in Belfast. Like so many big department stores it has closed down but the building must have a preservation order on it, and you can see the 2 family names still carved on the sandstone exterior walls. A fine looking building, even if it now just houses a fast food outlet!
Elwyn
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Hi,
John Cleaver married Mary Ann Spence in Richill Congregational Church, Armagh on 12 Aug 1869.
A parent search on the IGI showa Mable born 1877.
Regards
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i was in that very building today, i worked there for 5 years (left abot 10 years ago) and remember being taken shopping there by my mother. a beautiful shop with a marble staircase.
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I have information on the Cleaver family My email is (*). If you contact me directly , we can share
Rgds
John
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Looking to fill in some gaps concerning these families:
According to one resource, Edward Robinson, was the son of Alexander Robinson of Ballymena, Co. Antrim. Edward was b. 17 Feb. 1849 and went into business with John Cleaver in 1870. Edward became a J.P. and lived at Lismara, Whiteabbey.
Would you mind sharing your source for this information? I have conflicting information that William Robinson and his brother John had a cambric bleach works at Ballydown. John Robinson joined with John Cleaver of Belfast to found Robinson & Cleaver Ltd.
I am very interested in the Robinson line since I believe I am a descendant.
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dpierce hi,
i think you may be the first person to ever mention the person i am hunting for on the entire internet!
there is a story my grandmother and her sister told me of a william robinson from belfast, his brother (or family) founded robinson & cleaver. apparently he ran away to scotland, joined the 42nd regiment (blackwatch) and that's what took him out to india.
don't know what info you have but anything is gratefully received, i've been hunting this man down for 16 years!
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To dpierceO5
I am very sorry for being so late in replying to your post.
I hadn't received a notification that a post was made and
I very rarely check unless I do.
The information that I posted that you are interested
in probably came off the net so I would not put so much faith in it.
It definitely needs to be double checked.
I cannot offer any additional information on this branch of the Robinsons
although I will make a post if I should find something.
Once again, I am very sorry for not responding at an earlier time.
With very best wishes,
Paul
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There was a Robinson & Cleaver shop in Liverpool years ago and Wikipedia lists one in Regent Street, London.
A
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The Net is a wonderful tool so here is what I found:
Snippet from the book, Linen Houses of the Bann Valley: mentions William and John Robinson of Ballydown; lived at Rockview and stated that John joined with John Cleaver of Belfast.
However, obit from The Times dated March 10, 1906 has Edward Robinson as being the partner. Obit said that
Edward was from Ballymena and the son of Alexander Robinson, a woolen trader. Edward was married to a Miss Blair and at his death left three sons.
In regards to the family of Ballydown near Banbridge, I was able to find the following:
1858--John Robinson declared bankruptcy.
1860--June 26, at Banbridge Church, the marriage of John M'Quoide, Esq. of Dromore to Margaret, the dau of John Robinson, Esq. of Ballydown.
I was unable to find any additional information on William Robinson of Ballydown
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From PRONI website- "Probate of the Will (and two Codicils) of Edward Robinson late of Lismara Whiteabbey County Antrim and Donegall-place Belfast Merchant J.P. who died 6 March 1906 at Lismara Whiteabbey granted at Belfast to Marion H. Robinson the Widow and Edward A. Robinson and Harold C. Robinson Merchants" Will mentions wife, sons Edward and Harold, brother Hugh, sister Sarah, aunt Mary Ann Robinson....7 pages long
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Thanks, Aghadowey. I do not own or have access to the book Linen Houses of the Bann Valley(too expensive to buy and it is doubtful whether a library in Japan will have it) so I am not sure how the author made the connection of John Robinson to Edward Robinson. It is of course possible that the families were related, but I doubt whether John and Edward were the same person.
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From Proni Wills:
Alexander Robinson d. 1863, late of Ballymena; woolen draper;
his will was proved by Margaretta Robinson, widow,
Edmund Robinson of Randalstown and Alexander Patterson, merchant.
Will of Edmund Robinson, late of Randalstown, merchant;
his will proved by the Rev. James Brown Huston.
Will of Alexander Patterson, late of Carnmoney, J.P.;
will proved by Hugh Robinson of Holywood, Co. Down, merchant,
and William Roney Patterson of Magherfelt. William Roney Patterson
died in 1908.
Hugh Robinson of Holywood, Down, d. 1893; will proved by
William M'Collum Robinson, Club Secretary and Mary Robinson, widow. Mary died in 1922 and her will
was probated by William M'Collum Robinson, accountant, and Sara Robinson, spinster.
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More from Proni Wills:
Esther Robinson, spinster, died 1911 and probate granted to
William McCollum Robinson.
Margaretta Robinson, of Lennoxvale, Belfast, spinster, died 1912,
probate granted to Hugh Moore Robinson, Director.
Hugh Moore Robinson of Lennoxvale died 1932; probate granted
to Sara Robinson and Edward Arthur Robinson, Director.
Mary Shannon Robinson, spinster, died 1933 and probate granted to William McCollum Robinson.
Sara Robinson, spinster, died 1937 and probate granted to Edward Arthur Robinson, Gent.
William McCollum Robinson died 1938 and probate granted to Violet Montgomery Robinson, spinster and
Alexander Herbert Finlay, Co. Director.
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1911 Census has the following:
Living at 21 Ballynahatty, Co. Down
Edward Arthur Robinson, aged 32, linen merchant
Mabel, wife, aged 34
Granddine M. A., aged 8
Meg M. G., aged 3
Living separately (forgot to jot down address, Belfast?)
Marion Harvey Robinson, aged 50, widow, b. St. Louis, USA
Harold Claude Robinson, aged 28, linen manufacturing manager
Stanley Gerald Robinson, aged 22, linen manufacturing manager
Harold Claude Robinson (1882-1944) is probably the same person who was the M.P. for Larne and
in 1917 was a temporary Major and awarded the Croix de Guerre.
I was only able to find two Stanley G. Robinsons: one died in1919 and the other was a son-in-law to
Sir Victor Horsley. He needs more research.
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Hugh Robinson of Belfast married Mary Shannon, dau of Dr. Shannon of Magherafelt
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http://www.lib.lsu.edu/special/findaid/m4356.html
See the above website for additional information on this family--However, the nuts and bolts are this:
1. John McKowen (1812-1871) merchant of Jackson, East Feliciana Parish, Louisiana; emigrated from Castle Dawson round 1830; m. 1 Mary Ann Langford of Woodville, Mississippi and had,
2. Dr. John Clay MacKowen (1842-1901), unmarried but had a dau,
3. Giulia
2. Sarah Elizabeth McKowen m. William H. Pipes
2. Alexander McKowen died in Civil War
John McKowen m. 2 in 1846 to Jane Shannon, dau of Dr. Shannon of Magherafelt (anyone have a first name for this man) and had further issue,
2. William Robert McKowen m. Sally Pipes of Jackson, Louisiana
2. Thomas Chalmers McKowen (1849-1926) m. Margaret Ann Germany (1852-1942)
3. Mary Virginia McKowen (1873-1952) m. Thomas Lilley Mills
3. Margaret Jane McKowen m. Albert Carter Mills
John McKowen m. 3 Christina, who survived him
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1849--Death of Margaret, wife of Dr Shannon of Magherafelt.
1866--Death of Dr. Shannon at Magherafelt, aged 84.
1890--Death of James Shannon, L.A.H.D., 3rd son of Dr. Shannon of Magherafelt.
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OK, I will answer my own question: from wills at PRONI
Dr. William Shannon, d. 1866; will proved by Rev. Alexander Montgomery of Magherafelt and Hugh Robinson, merchant, of Holywood, Co. Down.
James Shannon, son of Dr. William Shannon, was an apothecary. His will was proved by James Johnston, merchant, of Belfast.
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Rev. Alexander Montgomery of Magherafelt (1822-1889) b. Clough, Co. Antrim; m. May 11, 1863 to a dau of William Shannon.
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Hi,
The daughter was Margaret Shannon.
Regards
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Thanks, Kingskerswell. The help received from you and other Rootschat members is always much appreciated.
With best wishes from Japan, Paul (AKA, Pablo1)
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Rev. James Shannon Montgomery (1873-1955); retired as pastor
of Leesburg Presbyterian Church, Leesburg, Virginia; son of Rev. Alexander Montgomery
and Margaret Shannon; Rev. James was married to Ora Vaun May of New Matamoras, Ohio.
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Hello Pablo1
I am just commencing to research Adelaide Pollock. She married Arthur Spence Cleaver in 1905.
Do you know if a family history exists of the Cleaver family please?
My interest in Adelaide is she was one of very few Irish females to obtain a pilots licence pre-WW2.
Many thanks,
Michael Traynor
Dublin.
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Hi, Michael,
I don't really know if a family history of the Cleaver family exists.
I am sorry that I cannot be of more help.
With very best wishes,
Paul Robinson
Osaka, Japan
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As I am following the life of Arthur and Adelaide Cleaver I have posted the following threads.....
Adelaide at .... http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=686031.new#new
Arthur at ... http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=686034.new;topicseen#new
Adelaide's father Hugh Pollock at .... http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=686033.new;topicseen#new
Any assistance with any of these family members would be very much appreciated.
Thank you,
Michael Traynor,
Dublin.
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Hello everyone,
I notice from this thread that there seems to be a good deal of information available about the Robinson side of the business. Does anyone here know if any members of the Cleaver family are still alive?. Hopefully over the years the family continued to expand and even if not in Belfast they are still alive somewhere.
Any leads would be very much appreciated.
Best regards,
Michael.
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This is what I have on the Robinson family:
1. Alexander Robinson, died 1863; of Ballymena; m. Margaretta
2. Edward Robinson , J.P. (1849-1906) went into business with John Cleaver in 1870; lived at Orrington House and Lismara; m. in 1877 to Marion Harvey Blair, dau of Edward A. Blair of Altoona, Windsor, Belfast.
3. Edward Arthur Robinson m. Mabel Cleaver, dau of John Cleaver and Mary Ann Spence, dau of George Spence of Rich Hill, Armagh.
4. Granddine (Sp.? Could this be Geraldine? M. A. Robinson, b. abt. 1903
4. Meg M. G. Robinson, b. abt. 1908
3. Major Harold Claude Robinson (1882-1944) M.P. for Larne
3. Stanley Gerald Robinson, b. abt. 1888
2. Hugh Robinson of Holywood, Down; died 1893; married to Mary ? who died in 1922.
2. Margaretta Robinson, died 1912
The following Robinsons are also most likely related to the above:
Hugh Moore Robinson of Lennoxvale, died 1932
Sara Robinson died 1933
William McCollum Robinson, died 1938
Violet Montgomery Robinson
There is one more Robinson who may, or may not, be related:
Anna Maria Robinson, eldest dau of Edward Robinson of Belfast, married
Charles Hartwell Mateer in 1876 at Ballymacarret Parish Church, son of Hugh Mateer of Randalstown.
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Hello Paul,
Many thanks for that detailed reply.
That has clarified which of the Robinsons went into business with John Cleaver. I wasn't aware that Robinson's eldest son Edward A. married Cleaver's daughter Mabel. Do you have dates for that marriage please?. Just to cement the family business for the next generation !!.
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Hi,
Hope that you don't mind me butting in but Edward Arthur Robinson married Mabel Cleaver on 12 Jun 1901 in University Road Methodist Church, Shankill, Belfast.
Regards
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Thank you very much for that additional information Kingskerswell. I appreciate that.
Michael.
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Thanks, Kingskerswell. Butting in with additional information is always much appreciated.
With best wishes from Japan, Paul.
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Is there any other information on Violet Montgomery Robinson? Date of Birth? Where she lived throughout her life?
Cindy
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Sorry to say that I have no additional information on Violet Montgomery Robinson at this time.
With best wishes, Paul
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Not sure if this is the same Violet Robinson.
According to 1911 census, Violet Montgomery (born c1880 Co.Antrim) was a nurse-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Templepatrick/Templepatrick_Town/112162
Only Violet Robinson same age I could find in Ireland in 1901 is 21 years old but Presbyterian and born Co.Down-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Magherafelt/Broad_Street/1533318
If the house on Broad St., Magherafelt is the same one Dr. Hunter lived in, then it's called Laurel Villa and now a bed and breakfast-
http://laurel-villa.com/
PRONI will have a copy of her Will-
Robinson, Violet Montgomery of Braemar 24 Demesne Road Holywood county Down spinster died 14 July 1964 Probate Belfast 25 January to Alfred Alexander Frost chartered accountant and Digby Keenan accountant. Effects £4329 11s.
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Violet Montgomery Robinson from my post above-
Death certificate gives age as 83 (born c1881) which fits with both 1901 and 1911 census records (born c1880). Possible birth in GRONI's database (only 1st names listed, no middle names)-
Violet Robinson born 28 March 1880 Belfast district (mother- Shannon)
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Hi,
See https://familysearch.org/search/collection/results?count=20&query=%2Bfather_surname%3Arobinson~%20%2Bmother_surname%3Ashannon~&collection_id=1584963
Regards
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Hi,
Hugh Robinson and Mary Shannon married in Magherafelt First Presbyterian Church on 6 Oct 1857.
Regards
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Always thankful for your added inforation, kingskerswell. With kindest regards, Paul
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So, is that the correct Violet Montgomery Robinson that I found?
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Aghadowey, I haven't done any research on this family in quite a while, but she looks like the correct one to me...Paul
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Hi I am a direct descendant of Edward Robinson born 1819 who's son Edward Robinson born 1849 died 1906 went into partnership with John Cleaver (from England)
His son Edward Arthur married Mabel Cleaver daughter of John.
My link is through his 2nd son Stanley Gerald who was my Grand father. I am trying to put together the whole tree and have missing links. Any help would be gratefully received.
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Mrs. Elljay,
What missing links are you looking for? I am sure that others and myself will try to help if we can.
With best wishes,
Paul Robinson
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Just starting to research my family, my Grandmother was Christina Robertson marrying my Grandfather James McMullen , she died 1952 he in 1956, the other link is Christina's brother David James Robinson who my Father was named after.
Am I on the right track ?
Dave
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Just starting to research my family, my Grandmother was Christina Robertson marrying my Grandfather James McMullen , she died 1952 he in 1956, the other link is Christina's brother David James Robinson who my Father was named after.
Am I on the right track ?
Dave
I'm not sure that your Robertson/Robinson family is connected to the people in this thread. Lots of online resources available so if you'd like help tracing your family give us a bit more detail and let us know what we can help you with.
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Purely speculation based on limited information in your post-
Death: Christina McMullan, age 40, 10 Sept.1952 Lurgan district
Death: James McMullan, age 48, 3 Oct.1956 Lurgan district
Birth: Christina Robinson, 23 Nov.1911, parents- David James Robinson (damask weaver) & Annie Eliza Heathwood
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01512/1614351.pdf
Parents' marriage (1894)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1894/10566/5849617.pdf
Which fits with this family-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Woodvale_Ward/Mayo_Street/986856
(Methodist)
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/St__Anne_s_Ward/Thames_Street/183180
(now Presbyterian, 11 children but only 5 living in 1911- Christina born after census)
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If the above records are indeed the correct family then it looks like most of the children died quite young-
David James Robinson (d.1917), s/o David (iron moulder) m.(1894) Annie/Anne Elizabeth Heathwood (c1870), d/o John (cloth passer)
(David) https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7961.4962
1. David James (1894-1913)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1894/02264/1851008.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1913/05329/4483261.pdf
https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7935.8029
2. Christina (1895-1901)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1895/02197/1830607.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1901/05739/4620422.pdf
3. Margaret Ann (1897-alive 1921)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02098/1799435.pdf
4. Alfred George (1899-1901)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1899/02021/1775667.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1901/05739/4620419.pdf
5. John Henry (1901-1916) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1901/01946/1752213.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1916/05254/4456988.pdf
https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7953.4317
6. Jemima Weatherall (1903-1904) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1903/01882/1732175.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1904/05630/4584075.pdf
https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7789.14998
7. Alice Ethel (1904-1921) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1904/01830/1715314.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1921/05098/4400677.pdf
https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=8141.231
8. Alfred George (1905-1906) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1905/01776/1698423.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1906/05573/4565183.pdf
https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7571.16723
9. Agnes Williams (1905-1906) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1905/01776/1698423.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1906/05573/4565184.pdf
https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7571.16743
10. Elsie (1907-1908)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1907/01679/1668022.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1908/05507/4543335.pdf
https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7595.19397
11. Annie (1910-1917)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1910/01563/1631022.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1917/05225/4446381.pdf
https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7959.4717
12. Christina (1911)
If the above family it's yours please let us know more details and we'll do more looking...
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Thanks for that, yes this is the family line, I'm in contact with a cousin in Nth Ireland ,more info should come my way soon.
Thanks again
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Hi
I just recently posted the attachment on another forum (Down) and then discovered this would probably be more appropriate. The dedication is on a flyleaf of a book which belonged in 1936 to my grandfather Matthew Davidson a tailor in Bridge St, Banbridge (no 53 at the bottom of The Cut). Robinson Cleaver had a premises at the top of Bridge St. My grandfather was associated with Banbridge Literary Society in early 1900s and it is possible that the Book (Works of Sir Walter Scott) belonged to its predecessor Banbridge Reading Society. The dedication reads
To Miss Moor
A small token of gratitude from her affectionate nephew
William George (?) Robinson
Dec 1871
I am wondering if the Moor/Robinson names ring any bells with contributors to this thread ? Could they be connected to Robinson Cleaver or is it just a coincidence ?
Any suggestions much appreciated
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See other thread:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=816366.0
KG
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The aunt's name could be MOORE or Moon.
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Hello, Im looking to for anyone connected to Florence Edith Cleaver from Belfast who married Norman Macnaughton and moved to Poole, Dorset. Im unsure as to whether they had a family but Im hopeful in finding a descendant?
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Florence's family mentioned in original post here.
Looking to fill in some gaps concerning these families:
According to one resource, Edward Robinson, was the son of Alexander Robinson of Ballymena, Co. Antrim. Edward was b. 17 Feb. 1849 and went into business with John Cleaver in 1870. Edward became a J.P. and lived at Lismara, Whiteabbey.
1. John Cleaver, b. abt. 1842 m. Mary Ann Spence
2. Arthur Spence Cleaver, b. abt 1870 m. 1905 Adelaide Pollock
2. John Martin Cleaver, b. abt. 1871
2. Mabel Cleaver, b. abt. 1874 m. 1901 Edward Arthur Robinson, son of his partner
2. Sir James Frederick Cleaver, b. abt 1875
2. Edward Arthur Cleaver, b. abt. 1879
2. Florence Edith Cleaver m. 1911 Norman MacNaughton
2. Eileen Martha Esther Cleaver m. 1914 Charles Mitchell Clegg
***Corrections and additional information always appreciated***
Florence's birth-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1878/02968/2087394.pdf
1911 marriage-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1911/09946/5615867.pdf
No obvious births in Northern Ireland (up to 1921). No obvious births in England/Wales.
Florence E. MacNaughton died 1946 Poole district. Can't see anything in England Wills site.
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
Norman Macnaughton died 1954 Pool district. Nothing on Wills site for him either (checked 1954/1955).
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Found this in N.I. site- https://apps.proni.gov.uk/WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearch.aspx
Macnaughton Florence Edith of "Darville" Canford Crescent Canford Cliffs Bournemouth Hampshire married woman died 14 May 1946 Probate Belfast 27 November to Norman Macnaughton gentleman and Mabel Robinson married woman. Effects £6876 15s.
Macnaughton Norman of Darville Canford Crescent Canford Cliffs Dorsetshire died 26 February 1954 Probate London 30 April to Westminster Bank Limited and Violet Macnaughton spinster. Effects in Northern Ireland £3131 5s. Re-sealed Belfast 20 December.