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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Mayo => Topic started by: Nurmal on Friday 06 August 10 08:00 BST (UK)
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I am looking for my Frain ancestry.
My ggrandparents John (born c1851) and Margaret (born c1856) lived in Carrownaraha near Ballyvary on the 1901 and 1911 Irish census.
John and Margaret were both born in Mayo. The occupation is shown as farmer. They had seven children, Winnie (Winafred?), Patrick (Pat on census, my grandfather), Michael, Richard (spelt Ritchard on census), Bridget, John and Thomas. Winnie is not shown on either census but may have left home for work or been married prior to 1901. I have an address for her in 1916 in Aston Birmingham.
In 1916 when Thomas was killed in France (Connaught Rangers) the address for John and Margaret from the CWGC was Doogerra Ballyvary.
John (son/my grandfather’s brother) married Delia (Bridget ?) and had four children. These are John, Theresa, Bridget and Phil (female probably Philomena).
John (son/my grandfather’s brother) and Delia were still living in Doogerra in 1954. The children of John and Delia had all moved away by 1954 and John (son of John and Delia) was living in Dublin..
I do not know if Doogerra is a small village or if it is the name of a farm or house.
Pat (1879 - 1958) and Richard (c1885 - 1947) moved to Yorkshire.
Pat moved sometime after the 1901 Irish census and before the 1911 Irish census and married my grandmother, Elizabeth Clee, daughter of Thomas and Ruth Clee in April 1919 at Castleford. Richard moved to Yorkshire after the 1911 Irish census. He moved to Wombwell.
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Good morning Nurmal,
You have quite a bit of information there so presumably want to go back from Patrick and Margaret. That would mean their marriage certificate which would give you their fathers' names and maybe addresses.
Family search pilot site http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=home has Irish BMD indexes but there are a lot of Frains.
However, you do have some approximate births/place and parents names so that should help to get a birth certificate for one of the children and then the marriage certificate.
http://www.groireland.ie/
I know we pass through Ballyvary area when we go to Mayo but not sure if the registrar would have been Swinford or Castlebar then. Here is Castlebar address:
Civil Registration Office, New Antrim Street, Castlebar, Co. Mayo Contact: 094 9023249
pehaps a phone call there would tell where to look.
When we were in Mayo in June we went to the Mayo Peace Park in Castlebar which is a lovely place of commemoration for those Mayo people who died in the wars. There has been a book published too which seems to have the CWG information to identify the dead. (My gt uncle is remembered there.)
I have just looked at the site and there is a Thomas Frain Castlebar but whether he is yours I don't know. The details would be in the book but it is a big book and, I think, expensive and from what I recall they are just lists as on CWGC site.
http://www.mayo-ireland.ie/en/towns-villages/castlebar/visitors-guide/mayo-peace-park.html (http://www.mayo-ireland.ie/en/towns-villages/castlebar/visitors-guide/mayo-peace-park.html) New Link 2015
It looks as though Doogerra vould be Doogary and there are a few of those around Castlebar/Swineford by the looks of it.
http://www.thecore.com/seanruad/ (Search for 'Doog' at beginning of field in drop down menu.)
best wishes
heywood
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Thanks for the info - you have also responded to my "Foster of Darlaston" post.
I will work my way through this.
My Thomas Frain is 7267, 6th Battalion Connaught Rangers. I have a lot of his paperwork including army records which is where I obtained the addresses for the siblings that moved to England. The information on his army record says 'son of John and Margaret Frain of Doogerra, Ballyvary, Co. Mayo.
Thanks
Pat
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Hello again,
I had a quick look on internet http://www.castlebar.ie/news/article_2781.shtml explains the book and there isare email addresses for P J Clarke and Michael Feeney who gathererd the information.
It might be worth contacting thenm to see if it is your Thomas who is inscribed on the memorial.
As I said it is a beautiful spot. My cousins who live a few miles away didn't even know that our relative was remembered there as he had been in Merchant navy and his boat had been torpedoed. That just has his name there but CWGC gives his parents details too- like your Thomas.
regards
heywood
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Hi Heywood
I contacted PJ Clarke and Thomas is in the book
Thanks
Pat
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That's great news- well the memorial is fitting and a lovely place. :)
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I am looking for information on Bridget Frain (b c1880) who moved to Cloonconlan near Straide between 1911 and 1915. This was possibly as a result of marriage. BMD searches have not come up with a marriage or name of spouse. Her parents were John and Margaret Frain from Carrownaraha, Ballyvary.
There is a full posting regarding this Frain family on the discussion board.
Moderator's Comment: merged with existing thread
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Was looking through the Internet for information on Thomas Frain and cane across your post. I am Bridget Frains Granddaughter.
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The link for Mayo Memorial PeacePark org sends one to a site focused on HGH and appears they are selling growth hormones. (New link updated)
If there's a better link, please let us know.
Thanx
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Just googled it....
http://www.mayo-ireland.ie/en/towns-villages/castlebar/visitors-guide/mayo-peace-park.html
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The link for MayoMemorialPeacePark.org sends one to a site focused on HGH and appears they are selling growth hormones.
If there's a better link, please let us know.
Thanx
The site has Obviously been hijacked over the years :)
Hallmark has given you the link. I haven't been for a few years but am hoping to visit it this summer.
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Probably some photos of it on line if you Google it and see what is under Images!
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http://www.irishwarmemorials.ie/Memorials-Detail?memoId=679
See Image 5/15 - he is listed under Castlebar
It seems to be the right Thomas according to Nurmal's earlier post.
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New topic created for Thomas Frain born 1896
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=725521.msg5697906#msg5697906
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Was looking through the Internet for information on Thomas Frain and cane across your post. I am Bridget Frains Granddaughter.
I am almost certain that I am your second cousin. My Grandfather was John Frain who was Thomas's brother. Over the years I have collected some material about the family and am currently trying to write it up for my grand children. The only information I have about your grand mother is a record of her marriage from the local registry. I have attached a copy. I understand that several of her nephews/nieces stayed with her in Aston when they emigrated but I have no details.
I have copies of some of Thomas's service records, a photo of his service medal. His memorial is on Pier and Face 15 A of the Thiepval Memorial. His birth cert records his birth date as 20 February 1914 at Dooghery (probably a misspell). The use of some variant of Dooghery in their address has given rise to a lot of misunderstanding. The correct address is Carrownaraha. Tradition is that the Frains (great-grandfather) originated in East Mayo. Places, that I remember being mentioned, were Barnacogue mountain (site of Knock Airport) and nearby Kilkelly, Swinford and Kiltimagh. There is an area called Doogary just outside Kilkelly. Perhaps the house was named after Doogary to indicate that this was the John Frain from Doogary.
Is this material of any interest to you? Nurmal, who started this conversation is also a second cousin of ours. I was in contact with him some time ago but he has no recent posts
If
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Hello frainj,
Welcome to RootsChat.
Nurmal should have received notification of your reply but will just check for you. Yes the notification has gone through, hopefully they should reply very soon.
Regards
Sarah
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Was looking through the Internet for information on Thomas Frain and cane across your post. I am Bridget Frains Granddaughter.
I am almost certain that I am your second cousin. My Grandfather was John Frain who was Thomas's brother. Over the years I have collected some material about the family and am currently trying to write it up for my grand children. The only information I have about your grand mother is a record of her marriage from the local registry. I have attached a copy. I understand that several of her nephews/nieces stayed with her in Aston when they emigrated but I have no details.
I have copies of some of Thomas's service records, a photo of his service medal. His memorial is on Pier and Face 15 A of the Thiepval Memorial. His birth cert records his birth date as 20 February 1914 at Dooghery (probably a misspell). The use of some variant of Dooghery in their address has given rise to a lot of misunderstanding. The correct address is Carrownaraha. Tradition is that the Frains (great-grandfather) originated in East Mayo. Places, that I remember being mentioned, were Barnacogue mountain (site of Knock Airport) and nearby Kilkelly, Swinford and Kiltimagh. There is an area called Doogary just outside Kilkelly. Perhaps the house was named after Doogary to indicate that this was the John Frain from Doogary.
Is this material of any interest to you? Nurmal, who started this conversation is also a second cousin of ours. I was in contact with him some time ago but he has no recent posts
If
hi frainj
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Yllek
This morning I saw your reply which contained an email address. The contents of your message were deleted when I retrieved it this evening. Can you repost your message or send the email address to (*)
frainj
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
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Email address' will be removed to protect you from spamming etc. You both have 2 posts now so can use the Personal Message system to exchange personal information, just click on the page icon under the username on the left of each post.
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To Yllek and Frainj
Apologies for not replying to your posts. I did not receive notifications due to changing my email shortly after my last post.
I have followed up some of the information I found and the direct lines from my ggrandfather have very few descendants living in Ireland.
John and family (son of John, my grandfathers (Pat) brother and brother to Thomas) live in Dublin but the rest of the family (98 at the last count) live in the Aston/Birmingham area. I remember as a child my grandfather went to Birmingham for two weeks each year and two weeks to Carrownaraha to visit.
They originally went to England for about six months during winter to obtain work in the building trade and spent the rest of the year on the smallholding. As time went on some of the family took permanent work in England and as the parents and grandparents got older and started to retire they also moved to be near the family.
As to the Doogery and its variants the dwelling was near the N5 the Castlebar to Swinford road at Carrownaraha (a suburb of Ballyvary). A couple of miles after passing through Ballyvary there is a road on the right hand side of the road that leads to the dwelling. It is also the road to Doohana (?!).
I have a lot more information if you are still following this line.
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Hi Nurmal,
When you reply to a topic, it will automatically send the users a pm to let them know. I am trying to check the notifications for these members but as it has been so long since you replied I need to post again.
Sarah
edit: Yes I can see that both members notifications are working, hopefully they will reply soon.
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Hi Nurmal,
I received your message shortly before I went on holiday and intended to get back to you when I returned. Many things have happened since and I regret that I never got back to you.
I have also gathered up a lot of information about the family since I last heard from you. I have found a record in the 1911 UK census that shows Pat and John lodging at Wombwell. Their occupation was given as Coal Miner Dataller. I know that my grandfather, John, left mining during the 1926 general strike and worked on the buildings. I have als found various records about Michael who went to America. Bridget married Michael Kelly in 1914 in Straid Church. They lived in Cloonconlon near Straide for the remainder of their 51 yrs. together.
I change computer about 6 months ago and have done no work on family history in the last 8/9 months. I have a lot of documentation taken from various sources an it will take some time to reassemble some of it. I have looked briefly for the census record mentioned above and have not been able to locate it quickly. I will do a bit of work on this over the coming week. I would prefer to correspond over direct email (*).
I tried to send the actual address using this forum but the email address was deleted. Can you send me your new email to my address.
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
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My Grandmother is (*) Frain. She married (*)
(*) Moderator Comment:
Edited in accordance with RootsChat policy of not publishing details of living people here, or details of people who may still be living. This is to protect all concerned from spam, identity abuse, internet abuse, etc, etc.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Hello jfk1964 and welcome to Rootschat.
As you can see the Moderator has left you a message explaining Rootschat policy but as you are a new member you would not be able to contact members privately until you have made a couple more posts.
Additionally, the posters have not been online for Rootschat for some time.
I just wanted to say that if your family are connected with the ones mentioned here, just post a couple of messages - brief ones will do and then you can try messaging.
If your Frain connection is a different family and you are looking for information, you could start a new topic, no living persons mentioned though.
There is also a ‘Surname Interest’ if you scroll to the bottom of the page under ‘Your Tools’ where you can register your interest or search.
Best wishes
Heywood
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Thanks everyone all your
Information is helpful.
Bridget Frain is my link. As I live in Canada ...this was a new beginning for my parents, there was never much family talk
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Not sure if you mean Bridget in this thread or a different Bridget.
If she is relevant here, I hope someone comes back to you.
If she us a different Bridget, a new thread would be best with birth/death and any relevant information.
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Jfk1964
There are three Bridgets in my family tree.
My Great Grand Mother, Bridget Moran Frain (born c 1856 d, 1915)
My Grandmother, Bridget Kenny Frain ( about 1880 - about 1954)
My Grand Aunt Bridget Frain (1880 - 1965) is the person mentioned here.
My great-great-grandfather Richard Frain (born about 1805) had a daughter and several Grandchildren named Bridget. I have no information about these, Do you have any dates, names of brothers, sisters, other relatives or placenames? There is a lot of information available on https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ re. births deaths and marriages. The 1901 and 1911 census records are available at http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/.
Take Care
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I think this is the Frain family in Carrowanraha Nurmal names in the opening post of this thread.
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Bellavary/Carrownaraha/1582523/
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Bellavary/Carrownaraha/711627/
I think the mother is Margaret Moran although it's a different address.
1879 daughter Winny
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02914/2067714.pdf
1881 Pat
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02823/2035962.pdf
1883 Michael
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02720/2000667.pdf
1885 Richard
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1885/02632/1970718.pdf
??? Bridget
1890 John
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1890/02426/1903476.pdf
1894 Thomas' birth informant Winny.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/cert_amends/cert_1894/1852162b.pdf
John and Margaret's marriage 1877
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1877/11152/8084994.pdf
John's father is Richard.
Is this the Richard Frain you mention in your post.
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My grandmother is Bridget Frain 1880-1965
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My grandmother is Bridget Frain 1880-1965
Are her parents John Frain and Margaret Moran?
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Yes they are
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Bridget married Michael Kelly in 1914 in Straid Church.
They lived in Cloonconlon near Straid. They lived in Cloonconlon near Straide for the remainder of their 51 yrs. together. They had 11 children. 1. First born died 2. Nora 3. James 4. Delia 5. Ann 6. Thomas 7. John Died from Pneumonia 18mths 8. Rose 9. Mary 10. Theresa 11. Philomena. I presume one of the children is your mother. If that is so you have second cousins living in Mayo
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Actually my father was Thomas Patrick Kelly
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The Bridget in the Census is only recorded as 11 in 1901 and 23 in 1911 so she was born in the late 1880s about 1887 to 1889.
I haven't found her birth cert.
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I presume one of the children is your mother. If that is so you have second cousins living in Mayo
Sorry just noticed, I'm not related to the family at all, it's just what we do on RootsChat, look records up, hopefully some of the people who are related will return.
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The use of some variant of Dooghery in their address has given rise to a lot of misunderstanding. The correct address is Carrownaraha.
That helps, the address was bugging me.
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The use of Doogerry, or some variation on that name, also caused me great confusion. I now believe that, at one time, the locals referred to Carrownaraha as Doogerry. The placename Doogerry now appears to be lost.
Darby Moran (Margaret Moran's father) is recorded in the Griffith Valuation as a landholder in Carrownaratha. The maps on http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/ identify the holding as the farm where I spent some of my summer holidays about 70 years ago. He is identified as living in Doogerry as the father of the bride on the wedding cert.
Some time ago I did a search for various registration certs for those living in Carrownaraha in the 1901 Census. On almost all that I found the residence was recorded as Doogerry and not Carrownaraha. I did see one reference to Springhill which is a neighboring "townland".
Doogerry was the address that my father and mother used in writing to my grandparents until the early 50s. At that stage, the Post Office requested that the address be changed to Springhill.
I have failed to find any reference on the web to a placename of Doogerry or similar in that area. After a gap of about 30 years, I revisited the area in the 80's I sought instructions from the Garda station in Ballyvary. No one there had any knowledge of Doogerry. I set out to find it and got instructions from an elderly gentleman who gave me details of my grandfather's holding.
There is a place called Doohana which is very close to Carrownaraha. On the Griffith Valuation Maps, the Moran holding(s) are close to Doohana. I often wonder if Doogerry was a corruption of Doohana. Perhaps someone local might have some local knowledge.
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Looking at the old maps Doohana and Spring Hill are both areas with a group of buildings within the townland of Carrownaraha.
You would need to be an expert of old Irish names/language but I would suspect both areas were called Doo with the different endings describing the difference between the two.
Irish place names usually describe the place, either it's features or some use that it has but they can be very difficult to work out even for the experts.
Creedon's Atlas of Ireland was very good if you can access the RTE Player
https://presspack.rte.ie/2019/08/11/creedons-atlas-of-ireland/
I had a similar situation with one of my families they insisted on using a name that isn't marked on any map, a local was able to point it out and I did find one very early official reference when their mill wheel was repaired.
Messing about with place names on https://www.logainm.ie/en/ I think it's possible the Doo is Dun which is a type of old settlement or enclosure similar to a Rath, that would fit perhaps with the later two areas of buildings in the townland. The second part of the names would distinguish the two Dun's from each other.
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Hi Frainj and JFK1964
I got notification of your new postings. I recently found the marraige cert of Margaret Moran and John FREANEY. Daughter of Darby Moran and Richard Freaney. They married on the 21th of December 1877 at Straide Church. John's address is listed as Balaghy and Margaret's as Doogery
Balaghy is on the Sligo/Mayo border at Charlestown.
(Daughter of James Kelly)
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Hi Frainj and JFK1964
I got notification of your new postings. I recently found the marraige cert of Margaret Moran and John FREANEY. Daughter of Darby Moran and Richard Freaney. They married on the 21th of December 1877 at Straide Church. John's address is listed as Balaghy and Margaret's as Doogery
Balaghy is on the Sligo/Mayo border at Charlestown.
(Daughter of James Kelly)
There is a link to the marriage cert in Reply#27
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Winifred Frain is my Great Great Grandmother, I started tracing my family ancestry last year.