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Research in Other Countries => Other Countries => Topic started by: Perks1 on Sunday 24 October 10 12:10 BST (UK)
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I'm trying to put together a picture of the Latour family in Calcutta.
It proving difficult as what records there are show different spellings of the surname including Latour, Lautour, Lantour, Lattore etc even Hantour.
In my tree I have:
Louis Latour
b 1799, m Catherine Smith on Sept 1822 at John Cathederal, Calcutta, d 1833
Christiana Agnes Latour (daughter of Louis and Catherine)
b 1825, m John Milne on 27 Nov 1846, d 1909
Lydia A Latour (daughter of Louis and Catherine)
b 1827, d 1833
Also in Calcutta at the same time there are:
Simon Pierre Latour who marries Jeanette A Guillo in 1826
Sophia Elizabeth Latour who marries William Bernard Carbery in 1831 (Fort William)
Jane Matilda Latour who marries Ernest Dawes Reilly Amman in 1836
Marie Louisa Latour who marries John Herberlet in 1827
Claudine Rose latour who marries Jean Lester
Edward De Lautour who marries Catherine Sconce
Can anyone connect any of these individuals together for me.
Also would like to find out more about Catherine Smith. Her father is Samuel Smith. I'm wondering if he is anything to do with Samuel Smith & Co of Hare Street, Calcutta, which published many newspapers, magazines and periodicals in Calcutta. I'm only guessing as Louis Latour (married to Catherine Smith) is described as a 'writer' on his death in 1833.
Any help would be fantastic
Perks1
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Hi. I may be able to help in a small way. Edward de Lautour who married Catherine Sconce was my great-great grandfather. It was his grandfather Count Francis Joseph Louis Lautour de Quercy who was the first of the family to go to India in 1777. The Count's son Joseph Andrew was a military officer in England until 1814, and his son Edward was born that same year. Edward went to Calcutta at the age of 23 and joined the East India Civil Service. He married Catherine in 1837 and later rose to become a judge in the Supreme Court in Calcutta. I can't help with the other names, although Count Francis Lautour had a son before his marriage, and called him Joseph Francois Louis Lautour, so it is possible I guess that he was the father of your Louis Latour. (That last bit is pure speculation!)
Good luck with your research.
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Hello and many thanks for your reply and interest.
Louis Latour is my 3 grt grandfather, so I really want to try to take this back further if I can.
I think that speculation isn't always such a bad thing, especially when there isn't anything else to go on. Sometimes it works and sometimes it leads nowhere.
Since reading your reply I have been doing a bit of research online but not found much. I was wondering if you have any information on Joseph Francois Louis Lautour or the family that you could pass on to me. It may just be that something fits in with the little info that I have.
Regards, Perks1
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Hi Perks1.
I do have a lot of information about the wider family, but very little about JFL Lautour. All I have is that in his will, Francis Lautour, JFL's father, wrote..."to my natural son Joseph Francis Louis Lautour by Mrs Elizabeth Proud, now commanding the ship 'Juno' in the East Indies, £3,500 (and if in India) 8,750 pagodas in lieu of the £3,500 sterling."
I hope that is of some help. I will attach a likeness of Count Francis (if I can work out how to do it!)
Regards,
Kiwi Shepherd.
OK - it won't let me attach the picture because it is too big. Perhaps if you would like the picture you could let me know your email on this forum, otherwise I will try and copy it in a smaller file.
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Hi Perks and KiwiShepherd,
I have just seen your postings and am very interested in discovering more about the Lautour family being a descendent of Joseph Andrew / Francis Joseph Louis Lautour and want to discover more about their history and location- de Quercy and Bouillon and would welcome any input. I would be very grateful if you could tell me where I could get FJL's will and apicture as I have been unable to find anything on the internet or the archives.
You mention the job of "writer" which is essentially that of a negotiator for the sale and purchase of goods and it is likely that it was for the East India Company- a good job as usually the writer took a commision on the slaes and it was a way to gain wealth. The website www.new.fibris.org is very good for info on British India and from memory has some info on the De Lautours.
Hope this helps,
Hexton
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Hi Hexton
Good to hear from you!! Always glad to get in touch with fellow De Lautour/Latour researchers.
Many thanks for the info on 'writer'. This is very interesting - I had no idea that it would have been that sort of job. If you have any more info you can share I'd be most appreciative.
I was a member of fibris but have since let it lapse as I thought I had exhausted all the info and leads on there but I'll have another look. Thank you.
I also would like to get hold of a copy of FJL's will as it might give me some more clues about my Louis Latour's parentage. I'm really stuck an in nee of a breakthrough.
Perks1
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I have just come across this IGI birth/baptismal record:
Name: Francis John L...Antour
Male
Baptism: 18 Aug 1782
Baptism Place: Chingleput, Madras, India
Father's Name: L...Antour
Index Project number: C00067-3
I came across this one by accident - total luck that I found it as it has never come up in any other searches that I have done before looking for Latour/Lautour/Lantour etc.
Can anyone place this individual?
Is this potentially the illegitimate son with Mrs Elizabeth Proud?
Regards, Perks1
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hi there. im trying to trace my son (joseph de Lautour) father's (cecil antony de Lautour) side of the family. edward de Lautour is my son's greatx4 (i think) grandfather. Cecil albert (edward's son) moved to new zealand from calcutta in 1863 and was engaged in politics there on, including becoming the mayor of gisborne. apparantly my son and his father are registered on some de Lautour family tree. any help or information would be awesome. thanks
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Hi there JoeJoe
I think that this is the right family for you.
As far as I know:
Cecil Albert de Lautour is the son of Edward de Lautour (born 9 Nov 1813 Westminster, London, d 16 Nov 1862 Cheltenham, Gloucstershire, England) and Catherine Sconce (b 19 Dec 1813 Sterling, Scotland, d 18 Sep 1899 South Kensington, Middlesex). They were married 1836 in Calcutta and had lots of children.
Edward de Lautour is the son of Joseph Andrew De Lautour (b 17 Apr 1785 Madras, d 28 Apr 1845 Hexton Park, Hexton Hertfordshire) and Caroline Young (1793 Soho, London, d 26 Nov 1869 Hexton Park, Hexton Hertfordshire).
Joseph Andrew De Lautour is the son of Joseph Francis Louis Lautour (commonly called Francis b 1752 Hexton Park d 26 Mar 1803 Devonshire Place, Marylebone, Middlesex) and Ann Hordle (b 1747 Wareham, Dorset, d 31 Oct 1825 Hexton Park). Joseph Francis Louis Lautou and Ann Hordle marry in 1780 in Madras.
Joseph Francis Louis Lautour in the son of Count Francois Lautour and Barbe Ruhn.
Joseph Francis Louis Lautour arrived in Madras in 1777.
Hope this is of some help.
I'm working on the theory that the Louis Latour in my family tree may be related to this family, based in the info posted above that Joseph Francis Louis Latour had an illegitimate son before his marriage to Ann Hordle. The ship 'Juno' that the illegitimate son was captain of was part of the East India Company fleet and was registered in Calcutta, which could potentially place any of his children (and possible my Louis Latour) in Calcutta. There are a few other stray Lautour/Latour etc in Calcutta. It is very difficult to work out how they all fit together or not, and whether thay are part of the De Lautour of Hexton Park or anther Latour family.
I have also found the baptismal records of a Mary Latour on 5 May 1778 at St John's Church Calcutta, daughter of Francis Latour. Interesting - I can find no other mention of another Francis Latour in Calcutta or India and assume that this could be anotherpossible illigitimate child Joseph Francis Louis Lautour (commonly called Francis).
I have worked out that Chery Manuel Latour (a Calcutta Hotellier) has at least 7 children, one Evelina Caroline Sarah Latour marries Arthur Dodd Walwyn Radcliffe in 1850 Calcutta. This marriage is witnessed by a William Bernard Carbery who married a Sophia Elizabeth Latour in 1831 Calcutta. These 2 Latour women must be related but I'm not sure how - possible sisters or aunt and niece.
I'm hoping if I can work on all the LATOURs in Calcutta I might find a connection to my Louis Latour.
Good Luck with your research
Regards, Perks1
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Hello,
I've just caught up with this and wondered how far you have got. I am a descendant of Joseph Francois de Lautour(please note that this is the correct spelling of his surname) and the family can be traced back to the 12th century. Extensive research has been done regarding this family. His son, Andrew lived at Hexton Manor in Hertfordshire and one of the parents of the people who still live there, (no relation), researched and wrote a nice biography of Francois. I had the great privilege of meeting the lady in question and her husband a few years ago, sadly both have since died. I have a copy but not at hand at the moment. Please let me know if you still want information.
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Hi Bedilia
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
According to their profile, Perks1 hasn't been online here for a few months but as long as their email address hasn't changed they should receive notifications that we have posted and hopefully come back soon.
Dawn
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Hello
Really good to see some activity on this post - thank you for the interest.
I haven't really got much further with my Latour research although the Find My Past site has recently added lots records for BMD for India. Although they don't seem to have any more records than I have found before you can now view the originals which has brought up a few more details.
The marriage of my Louis Latour and Catherine Smith in 1822 was witnessed by Saml Smith (either Catherine's father or brother), R Stuart, Charles Debordieux and A Favre. Non of these remaining names mean anything to me but may catch the attention of someone else.
Also available is the Will of Francis Joseph Louis Lautour so I'll need to take a look at it. Any further information on this man would be gratefully received!!
These records have helped to confirmed that Cheri Manuel Nicholas Latour and Sophie Elizabeth Latour are brother and sister, their father is J Latour Junior of Chitpur Road Calcutta, a Wine Merchant. Cheri is also a Wine Merchant and Hotellier at 122 Chippur Road, probably taking over from his father after his death in 1832. Jane Matilda Latour is also likely to be sister as Cheri gives his permission for her marriage in 1836. However, I still can't connect any of these individuals to my Louis Latour.
Other witnesses at these marriages are P Sutherland, John Morsley, A Heberlet (probably Andrew), F Harvey, and Rob Archibald. Again these names all need looking into.
I have found the widow of a Peter Latour, Writer of Wellsey Square, Calcutta, Charlotte, who died in 1843, aged 40. As of yet I haven't found a marriage for them. I wonder if there is a connection with My Louis Latour who was also a Writer.
I have also looked into the estate of Beebee Burnoo, my 3xgrt grandmother, which was administered in 1830/31 by a Major William Pattle later Lieutenant Colonel William Pattle.
A few more pieces of the puzzle answered but only to open up so many more!! ???
Perks1
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Hi Perks 1,
Apart from any illegitimate children Joseph Francois Louis had, all his descendants are accounted for. His mother was lading-in waiting to Marie Antoinette and his father Louis VI's financial advisor. At the time of the revolution Francois was living and trading in India and he was the only survivor of his entire family. Anyone with the surname de Lautour, globally, is one of his descendants, although a few have dropped the "u" to make "de Latour" as this make sense in the French language(of the tower). Most of us live in New Zealand and there have been quite a few family reunions. Poor old Francois was a person without a country for quite some time, but he was eventually allowed to join his wife and children in England with the proviso that he didn't use his title (Count) and dropped the "de" in his name (this is because "de" in French denotes a person belonging to the aristocracy).This was probably a political decision to keep the French happy. He was also allowed back into France, evetually although all the family's property was confiscated. He died in Paris The current person who perhaps could use the title is in his 90s and live in NZ, but Francois was the last one to use it.
In regard to illegitimate children I will check out the biography, when I locate it. We've shifted and have not unpacked everything yet.
Regards
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Hi Bedilia
Many thanks for that info. If you could spare some time to pull put some more info on the family I would be very grateful.
I think that JFL may have have had an illegitimate daughter, Mary, in 1775, as have found baptismal records on 5 May 1775 at St Johns Church, Calcutta with a father Francis. I can find no further records detailing what happened to her after this.
I wonder if it is possible to trace any details of his illegitimate son with Mrs Elizabeth Proud. In his will he mentions that his son is the Captain of the 'Juno' a East India Company ship but I have been unable to find this ship listed in any EIC records. Also no further trace of this person.
I have found arrival details on 29 June 1790 for a Master Joseph Latour and Miss A Latour aboard the 'Pigot' at Weymouth, Dorset from Bengal and Madras, announced by East India House. I assume these are Joseph Andrew and Amelia.
Does anyone know if it is possible to get any employment records of East India Comany staff?
I would love to try to trace the new Peter Lautour, a Writer of Wellsey Square, with wife Charlotte (widow) who dies in Calcutta in 1843. I just wonder if he might be a brother to my Louis Latour who was also a Writer.
Very interesting that JFL's father was Financial Adviser to Louis VI. My husbands 2xgrt uncle was Sir Ralph Endersby Harwood, Financial Secretary to King George V and also King Edward VIII and briefly served George VI. What a parallel it would be if I could prove a connection to JFL, even if through an illegitimate line, especially as we have used the names Harwood and Latour as middle name for our own children. Both these names are widely used in my family (Latour) and in my husband's family (Harwood). I am of course getting carried away and speculating!!
Regards, Perks1
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Hello Perks,
That would be a nice tie up. The dropping of the "u" in de Lautour does make it all a bit more difficult as there are many "la Tours" in France. For example the painter Georges de la Tour, is not related at all. (On an aside Toulouse Lautrec and the de Lautour family share a common an ancestor, Count Raymond of Toulouse.). The name merely means "of the tower" as coming from a tower or a place with a tower. The Family origins are in the Languedoc area. In an area called Comminges, close to the Spanish border. St Bertrand of Comminges and it's wonderful church is on the pilgrimage route to Compestella. Over the centuries branches of the family ended up in various parts of the country. Initially they were very tied up with an abbey called "Bonnefont" which is now a ruin, and gave a lot of money to it. A lot of the research material came from church records, but that's all way back in the history. A book on the family was researched and published a hundred or so years ago and in the 1990s a member of the genealogy society here, just because she wanted to, did a lot more research but mostly into our 4xgreat grandmother's family who came after Francois. I do know he died in Paris, but have no idea where he or Ann Hordle (his wife) are buried. Will try and find that book today, but it looks like we will be on the move again some time soon, this time I hope for quite a while. It's been pretty topsy turvy here what with earthquakes and floods We have moved 6 times since 2009 not all because of the earthquakes and a flood, but still it's wearying. Oh and Frances de la Tour, the actress, is related, somehow.
Regards
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I have found that a Joseph Lautour is Captain of and East India Company Ship called the Windham between 22 Nov 1810 and 19 Oct 1811.
His log is available at the National Archives:
Windham: Journal, Lautour IOR/L/MAR/B/230H 22 Nov 1810-19 Oct 1811
Perks1
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I do hope this thread continues. Its fascinating. Sandra
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Hello all, I'm also researching the Lautour family and wondered if I might ask you some questions about the bits and pieces you've been posting? Bedilia, you seem to have loads of great information on the family - you mentioned that you had a copy of the biography written of Joseph Francois de Lautour - I would love to hear more about what's in it! The line I'm researching goes down through Joseph Andrew and then to William Frances de Lautour, so any additional information about them would be very gratefully received too!
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Also - the information about Marie Antoinette and Louis VI is fascinating. Did this come from the biography too?
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I think that JFL may have have had an illegitimate daughter, Mary, in 1775, as have found baptismal records on 5 May 1775 at St Johns Church, Calcutta with a father Francis. I can find no further records detailing what happened to her after this.
P.P.S. Perks1 - may I ask, how did you manage to locate these Calcutta church records? Are they still stored in India or have they been moved over to the UK? Thank you!
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Hi Hannah
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
While you're waiting for the others to reply, there are some transcriptions of church records at www.familysearch.org which are free to search and view.
The surviving records deposited at the British India Office at the British Library are being digitised and transcribed by www.findmypast.co.uk , you can search for free but you'll need a subscription to see further details.
Hope this helps.
Dawn
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Hi Hannah
Here is the link to the baptismal records in Calcutta. It seems to be a one off collection which have been both transcribed and the original digitalized. Unfortunately it only has records dating from 1778-1782. It would be fantastic if further records came to light in the near future.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/cmadge/Baptisms%20in%20Calcutta%201778-1782.pdf
The Francis Latour memtioned in these records is recorded as being a Matross. Matross was a soldier of artillery, who ranked next below a gunner. The duty of a matross was to assist the gunners in loading, firing and sponging the guns. It would seem that this Francis Latour is not the same as JFL in Madras, and there is certainly no mention of a daughter Mary in his Will.
Again as Dawn mentions I have found the records on FindMyPast invaluable for moving my research along and I have been able to establish and confirm so many more family links by using this site.
Good luck with your research. Please feel free to share any discoveries here.
Regards Perks1
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Hi Hannah
Here is the link to the baptismal records in Calcutta. It seems to be a one off collection which have been both transcribed and the original digitalized. Unfortunately it only has records dating from 1778-1782. It would be fantastic if further records came to light in the near future.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/cmadge/Baptisms%20in%20Calcutta%201778-1782.pdf
The Francis Latour memtioned in these records is recorded as being a Matross. Matross was a soldier of artillery, who ranked next below a gunner. The duty of a matross was to assist the gunners in loading, firing and sponging the guns. It would seem that this Francis Latour is not the same as JFL in Madras, and there is certainly no mention of a daughter Mary in his Will.
Again as Dawn mentions I have found the records on FindMyPast invaluable for moving my research along and I have been able to establish and confirm so many more family links by using this site.
Good luck with your research. Please feel free to share any discoveries here.
Regards Perks1
Hi Perks1!
Thank you so much for all of this and sorry for my late reply, I wasn't sent a notification that you had responded for some reason!
Anyway, that's great - I'll go and have a look on FindMyPast and see what I can dig up there.
Thanks very much for taking the time to get back to me - I'll certainly post anything new I come across relating to the family!
Hannah
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Hi Hannah
Your notifications are set to "instantly, but only for the first reply"
If you missed the notification about the reply I made and didn't read it, then you wouldn't receive any more notifications.
You are able to set you notification to "instantly" in the drop down box here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=notification;u=233743
Dawn
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In case you are interested, it is possible that Who Do You Think You are episode October 2015 may be touch on the De Lautour family as they are doing actress Frances de la Tour. Perhaps they will be putting meat on the bones although more likely to be doing the Fessas side as the other twigs I thought were already known?
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Hi Hannah
This is the link to some of the Calcutta records. It is only has limited dates which is a real shame. I hope that some other records come to light at some point in the future.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/cmadge/Baptisms%20in%20Calcutta%201778-1782.pdf
Hope you find this useful
Perks1
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The BBC will be showing the last program in series 12 of "Who Do You Think You Are?" on 15 Oct 2015 about Frances De La Tour.
No idea which of her lines they will be following but could be very interesting.
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So I have had my mum take a DNA test and she is getting a very large number of hits to other people with family connections to the Alsace, (Bas-Rhin, Haut-Rhin, Lorraine, Moselle) France, Switzerland and just over the boarder in Germany (Baden Wurttemberg, Rhineland-Palatinate) between about 1600-1800. Finding this very interesting!!
Perks1
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Perks1 has written:
"I have also looked into the estate of Beebee Burnoo, my 3xgrt grandmother, which was administered in 1830/31 by a Major William Pattle later Lieutenant Colonel William Pattle."
I have a lot of detailed information on this William Pattle (1873-1865) and on the Pattle family generally.
I am very interested in Beebee Burnoo. Please contact me (new member).14 Jan 2018
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Hello Lanod
Thanks for your reply.
Since my original post evidence seems to indicate that the 1830/31 Will administered by Major William Pattle is probably that of William Milne, Beebee Burnoo's partner, and father of their children. William Milne must die some time between 1825 and 1830.
It seems that Beebee Burnoo then has a liaison with an Alexander MacDonald with whom he has 2 children Mary Anne MacDonald (born 1828) and Alexander George MacDonald (1830-1873). Alexander MacDonald died in 1833 and his will and legitimizes his children with Beebee Burnoo. He states that his wife Mary has returned to England and Alexander leaves everything including his property to Beebee Burnoo.
Hope this is of interest.
Perks1
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Many thanks.
It appears that William Pattle had an Indian mistress and I initially thought that it might have been your Beebee Burnoo.