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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Stirlingshire => Topic started by: PWN on Tuesday 16 November 10 14:14 GMT (UK)

Title: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: PWN on Tuesday 16 November 10 14:14 GMT (UK)
Can anyone advise me regarding these old streets in Stirling. I have my maternal great grandparents at various addresses over 30 year period. Last Saturday I went to Stirling to try and find the following addresses.

44 Baker Street - Obviously demolished and new flats built

24 Broad Street - still there

30, 44 and 48 Broad Street - No sign of them and I cannot see where they might have been.

Does anyone know where these numbers were in Broad Street?

Regards
PWN
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: stirling76 on Wednesday 17 November 10 12:52 GMT (UK)
I was born and brought up in Baker Street and can remember No 44 very well, in fact I remember the night it was on fire. It was demolished not long after that.
This was in the mid- fifties if my memory is correct, the fire started on the top landing in a coal bunker, when the ashes from a house fire were placed there.
The Mills family lived there, as did the Feeley's, Johnnie Hills pawn shop was at the back of the close, and I think I'm right by saying auld Annie Cowane lived there as well. I'm not sure of the other families.
I'll look amongst my collection and see if I have a pic of the old tenement, but im not sure.
44 does have one claim to fame though, William Harvey who would later become a writer and newspaper editor of Leng Thomson (people's friend ) was born there.
As for Broad Street, I'm sure someone here will be able to help, not me unfortunately, I am a 'Bakie' not a 'Broadie.'
I lived at No.23 in the household buildings.
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: PWN on Wednesday 17 November 10 14:52 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much, Stirling76. Your description of 44 Baker Street and what happened to it are most interesting. My grandmother Robina Gilchrist was born there in 1891..before your time.  A photo would be brilliant.

I am researching James Gilchrist and family (24 and 48 Broad St), Daniel Blair and family and his brother-in-law John Livingstone (24, 30 and 44 Broad St)  between 1880's and 1915 approx.  John Livingstone was a chemist/druggist at 58 Baker Street for about 30 years until his death in 1912.

I am guessing that 30, 44 and 48 Broad Street must have been somewhere behind 24/26 Broad Street but it would be wonderful if someone could confirm this.

Thanks again for your info. Kind regards, PWN
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: Fergie38 on Wednesday 17 November 10 19:35 GMT (UK)
I think I'm right by saying auld Annie Cowane lived there as well. .

That was a nice wee snippet of info 'stirling76'

(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/38fergie/Roots%20Chat/CowanWeeAnnie.jpg)

Wee Annie was my mothers auntie.
I would be most interested in any photos of the area that you would care to share.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: PWN on Wednesday 17 November 10 19:43 GMT (UK)
Hi Fergie38

What a great photo..full of character!

Regards
PWN
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: Fergie38 on Wednesday 17 November 10 19:52 GMT (UK)
Hi PWN

Wee Annie was apparently quite a character.
Regretfully I never met her.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: stirling76 on Thursday 18 November 10 13:00 GMT (UK)
Fergie,

that's a wonderful photo, just as I remember her, never without a heidscarf and a pinny, I knew her and her son very well, I'm sure after the fire they moved to Dalgleish court just round the corner.
I can't wait to forward the pic to my sisters.

Now Annie's son Jimmy, although everyone knew him as Chang Cowan, he was some character! and that's an understatement! Chang was some man.
I remember being a young child and my mother took my sisters and me to the regal to see Annie Get Your Gun, when we got home, the door was locked and father in a drunken sleep and no amount of knocking would waken him. Mum said to me, go across to Mrs Cowan's and tell Jimmy we were locked out!
Off I went across the road and told Chang what had happened and he came back with me. Out of his pocket came some tool, I think it was a long chisel, 10 seconds later the door jamb was prised out and the yale latch pushed in and the door opened and we got in. I think you can tell from that what profession Chang was known for, he was our local burglar! But what a nice man, years later whenever I met him he would always have time for me and have a chat, he was a pal of my brother.
I met him many years later in the 70's and he told me a great story,
do you remember when Johnny Ramensky fell of the roof when trying to break into the strongrooms in Stirling. Well, he wasn't alone, Chang was keeping the look out down below when Johnny fell, Chang checked he was breathing and scarpered, what the books don't tell you was that someone phoned the polis to tell them a man was hurt.
Seemingly Chang knew Johnny from old, probably met him in Jail somewhere, and told him about this safe waiting to be opened!
Poor Chang he had a hard time with his own family years later, it really broke his heart, but that's another story.
Stewart
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: Fergie38 on Thursday 18 November 10 16:28 GMT (UK)
Stirling76.

Brilliant.
I've copied your posting as is and pasted onto Wee Annies info page in 'Family Tree Maker'.

Thanks a lot.

Fergie.
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: stirling76 on Friday 26 November 10 10:13 GMT (UK)
I've looked through all my collection of pics of Baker Street and I can't believe I don't have a good pic of number 44. So that's set me a task to find one, looking down Bank Street to Morris Terrace would show it, so I'll see what turns up.
Meanwhile this is a pic taken just about 44, you can just see it at the right hand side in the forefront of the pic.
Those who know Baker street will remember Nimmo's shop shown here, on the corner of Bank Street, but if you look you will see there is no Morris Terrace on the right, there is no break in the road.
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: Fergie38 on Friday 26 November 10 11:21 GMT (UK)
Nimmo’s shop. The only place that sold ‘Piece Tins’.
A metal two piece box of the correct size and shape to take four slices of Scottish plain bread.
I remember buying one there when aged sixteen and first went ‘underground’ at Millhall.

Fergie.
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: Billy Anderson on Friday 26 November 10 11:29 GMT (UK)
I think I'm right by saying auld Annie Cowane lived there as well. .

That was a nice wee snippet of info 'stirling76'

(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/38fergie/Roots%20Chat/CowanWeeAnnie.jpg)

Wee Annie was my mothers auntie.
I would be most interested in any photos of the area that you would care to share.

Cheers.

She might be wee Annie but i don,t think i would have gone home with a pound missing from the wage packet!
Billy.
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: PWN on Friday 26 November 10 11:43 GMT (UK)
Many many thanks!  I am absolutely thrilled to see this photo (and any others you can find)

Wonder what year this was taken?

I very much appreciate your help.

Kind regards
PWN
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: stirling76 on Friday 26 November 10 12:41 GMT (UK)
when aged sixteen and first went ‘underground’ at Millhall.

Fergie.

I went to the 'Manor'
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: stirling76 on Friday 26 November 10 13:14 GMT (UK)
Can anyone advise me regarding these old streets in Stirling. I have my maternal great grandparents at various addresses over 30 year period. Last Saturday I went to Stirling to try and find the following addresses.

44 Baker Street - Obviously demolished and new flats built

24 Broad Street - still there

30, 44 and 48 Broad Street - No sign of them and I cannot see where they might have been.

Does anyone know where these numbers were in Broad Street?

Regards
PWN


PWN, I've had a wee bit of time on my hand and have got this, its from 1926 and was the new (present development of Broad Street) the old side was demolished before then, I have some pics from 1900 showing the buildings.
Anyway, I put it some numbers of the buildings, so I think you should be able to tell what building were the numbers your looking for.
Remember, these tenements were accessed from closes (vennals) and they can be seen easily in this map, thats where you might be getting mixed up with the numbers.
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: PWN on Friday 26 November 10 13:34 GMT (UK)
Hi Stirling76

Brilliant info..at last I am beginning to get my bearings! I just wish it was all still there to see it as it was. I suppose it would be renovated and conserved nowadays and not just demolished.

I am still trying to 'walk' in my Granny's footsteps but you have given me the lead with a few 'footsteps'!

The family name is Gilchrist and her father James was a plasterer. He did a fair bit of work on the intricate ceiling cornicing in some of the 'big posh hoosies' as my Granny described them to me in King's Park area.

Any other photos would be much appreciated but I do thank you for the time you have taken so far to give me this info.

Kind regards
PWN
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: stirling76 on Friday 26 November 10 13:34 GMT (UK)
PWN - This should sort you out, use it with the map above.

52 Broad Street
Large four-storeyed house with harled walls and crow-stepped gables. The low-arched pend retains its original cobbles and water-runnel and there is a good turnpike tower in the back wall. Adjoining the house to the west, at No. 54, are two attractive gate pillars.

48 Broad Street
Plain three-storeyed harled house. A long wing runs up the close behind, at the end of which is an interesting octagonal gazebo or garden house. No. 46 has been rebuilt (in a pleasant classical style) but retains an interesting seventeenth-century building on the back-land which may be seen from the court at No. 44.

36-38 Broad Street
Handsome four-storeyed house with twin crowstepped gables towards the street. The ground floor is vaulted and the pend leads to an interesting close behind containing a square staircase tower. The house formed the town ludging of the family of Graham of Panholes, by whom it was probably erected in the early seventeenth century. The adjoining house to the west, although quite plain, forms a sympathetic neighbour to this frontage, which remains one of the most attractive architectural features of Old Stirling.

30-32 Broad Street
Extremely interesting house with symmetrical renaissance frontage of squared ashlar. The building is of four main storeys surmounted by a high crowstepped gable. The ground floor, now used as a shop, has a deep cornice supported by elaborately carved pilasters. On each of the three upper floors are three evenly spaced windows, the side ones being blind. The windows have pediments inscribed as follows:

on the third floor, I R . 1671 . A L

on the second floor, I N . SOLI DEO GLORIA ("Glory to God Alone") . A R

on the first floor, ARBOR VITAE SAPIENTIA ("Wisdom is the tree of life") . MURUS AHENEUS : BONA CONSCIENTIA ("A good conscience is a brazen wall")

The initials on the second floor refer to James Norie, Town Clerk of Stirling, and Agnes Robertson, his wife.

The ground floor of the house is vaulted, and the rooms on the upper floors are panelled. In the close behind entered from No. 30, is a long wing with a turnpike stair and dormer windows.

24-26 Broad Street.
Four-storeyed house refronted towards the street. The line of the original frontage is marked by the arch inside the pend at No. 24. The crowstepped stair tower at the back is one of the finest of its period, and there is also a long wing with crowstepped gable and three round-headed dormer windows. The property belonged to Robert Stevenson Provost of Stirling in 1656, and is thought to have been built by him about the year 1630.

Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: PWN on Saturday 27 November 10 12:43 GMT (UK)
Hi Stirling76

Re. Broad Street - I have got a much better understanding now between the Street Plan and the individual 'close' descriptions. Great detail. Thank you for clarifying this for me.

Re. Baker Street - I have just discovered that we had a John Livingstone who was a Chemist/Druggist and had his shop at number 58 Baker Street for about 30 years until he died in 1912. I don't think he ever married. Familiar to anyone?

Again, many thanks.

Kind regards
PWN


Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: kirstymac on Sunday 29 May 11 17:30 BST (UK)
Hi I have a relative who apparently died in the Miner's Welfare Institute in Baker St. Does anyone know where that was?
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: Seoras on Wednesday 08 June 11 11:25 BST (UK)
Stirling 76 thanks for that photo of Baker St.My great great grandfather was a shoemaker at number 32 in 1881.
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: stirling76 on Friday 10 June 11 08:53 BST (UK)
Stirling 76 thanks for that photo of Baker St.My great great grandfather was a shoemaker at number 32 in 1881.

Seoras, this is a list of Boot, shoemakers in Stirling in 1881, is your g.g. grandfather there?

Boot and Shoemakers.
Bauchop, David, 9 Upper Craigs
Baiichop. Edward, 35 Murray place
Boswell,'W., 18 Baker street
Gumming, Wright, 16 Bow street
Dalgetty, Henry, 97 Baker street
Ferguson, Hugh, 79 King street
Gillespie, Wm., 77 Port street
Gilmour, David, 56 Baker street
Glover, Wm. , 12 Baker street
Gray, T. A., 8 Baker street
Low, Thomas, 4 Baker street
Maciivean, John, 4 Barnton place
Macintosh, John, 27 Murray pi. ; house
15 Douglas street
Mains, Thomas, 3 Bow street
Marshall, David Campbell, 30 Port st. M'Donna, Peter W., 51 Baker street
Page, .John, 7 Church wynd
Pate Brothers, 35 Baker street
Smith, Gabriel, King street
Stewart, John, 3 Friars street ; house 75
King street
Stoddart, J. M., 60 Port street
Vance, John, 1 Port street
Watson, Wm., 17 Upper Craigs ; house
3 George street

Stirling76
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: stirling76 on Friday 10 June 11 09:16 BST (UK)
Hi Stirling76


Re. Baker Street - I have just discovered that we had a John Livingstone who was a Chemist/Druggist and had his shop at number 58 Baker Street for about 30 years until he died in 1912. I don't think he ever married. Familiar to anyone?


PWN, re John Livingstone, his shop was at 58 Baker Street, but he lived at 44 Broad Street, not sure if you knew this.

Stirling 76
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: Seoras on Friday 10 June 11 09:18 BST (UK)
That clears something up Stirling 76.He (James Stein) isn't on there but I can see where he was working.At number 35 are his brothers-in-law the Pate's.They and his wife were the children of John Pate also a shoemaker in Linlithgow.All of them originally came from Linlithgow.James' son John was also a shoemaker in Glasgow.

ps.thanks for that list,another piece in the jigsaw.
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: stirling76 on Friday 10 June 11 09:18 BST (UK)
Hi I have a relative who apparently died in the Miner's Welfare Institute in Baker St. Does anyone know where that was?

Hi kirstymac,
I'll look through my files, but it's a new one on me, Miner's Welfare in Baker Street, you got a name for the relative?

Stirling 76
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: stirling76 on Friday 10 June 11 09:42 BST (UK)
That clears something up Stirling 76.He (James Stein) isn't on there but I can see where he was working.At number 35 are his brothers-in-law the Pate's.They and his wife were the children of John Pate also a shoemaker in Linlithgow.All of them originally came from Linlithgow.James' son John was also a shoemaker in Glasgow.

Ah! got him, he is listed in the 1881 directory at 32 Baker Street and the Pate's shop was at 35 Baker Street, almost directly across the road. My gut feeling tells me that number 32 was a lodging house, certainly a large tenement and part of what today is Dalgleish Court, however there were a lot of businesses listed at No.32, it may be that he had a workshop there, but if his Brother-in-laws has a shop called Pate Brothers, he most likely lived at 32 and worked at 35.

regards,
Stirling 76
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: maidmarianoops on Friday 10 June 11 09:46 BST (UK)
http://www.todaytourism.com/hotel-view.barcelo-stirling-highland-hotel.117858.en.html

a few more photos


sylvia
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: Seoras on Friday 10 June 11 12:38 BST (UK)
I think you are probably right Stirling 76 in that they lived at 32 and worked over the road.James and his wife still had the three youngest living with them,John 21,Elizabeth(my great gran)15 and James 10.John is already a shoemaker so possibly also working for his uncles.That is a great detailed description of the buldings a few posts back.
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: kirstymac on Saturday 11 June 11 17:20 BST (UK)
Hi Stirling 76. My relative was Patrick D'Arcy and he died in 1934. However when I look again it lists place of death as Miners Institute Welfare Burghmuir Stirling - would that be Baker St? I may have got mixed up as he lived at 44 Baker St.

Another relative was Hugh Thomson who live at 14 Baker St and died in 1948. I can remember visiting him.
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: stirling76 on Sunday 12 June 11 08:09 BST (UK)
Hi Stirling 76. My relative was Patrick D'Arcy and he died in 1934. However when I look again it lists place of death as Miners Institute Welfare Burghmuir Stirling - would that be Baker St? I may have got mixed up as he lived at 44 Baker St.

Another relative was Hugh Thomson who live at 14 Baker St and died in 1948. I can remember visiting him.

Hi Kirstymac,
thanks for that, the miners Institute at Burghmuir I can remember it well, in fact when I worked in the pits I was a member. Different area from Baker Street, it was at the bottom of the Craigs and was knocked down just a few years ago, built in 1929. When I was at Riverside school, I used to sneak off and practise snooker.
See my earlier post about 44 Baker Street and its whereabouts and 14 Baker Street is still there, you would have went up a close to get to Hugh Thomson's tenement, just down from the old Derby bar.
regards,
Stirling 76
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: kirstymac on Sunday 12 June 11 15:05 BST (UK)
Hi Stirling 76
Thanks for the reply. You have some great material there.
Kirstymac
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: Fergie38 on Sunday 12 June 11 19:47 BST (UK)
There's bound to be plenty of photographs of the Miners Welfare but here is one that I took just two days before it was demolished.
In this photo it's only the front section that is still standing.
I should have another two or three somewhere but with my amazing filing system, I can never seem to find things without an extensive search..

(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/38fergie/Roots%20Chat/MinersWelfare.jpg)

I remember going to the Little Theatre there on Sunday evenings for the weekly variety shows.
We used it about thirty years ago for for winter indoor archery sessions.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: kirstymac on Wednesday 15 June 11 17:34 BST (UK)
Thanks for that Fergie 38. I should have remembered it as two of my cousins were married there. Getting mixed up with Baker St threw me.
Kirstymac
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: Conan325 on Tuesday 28 February 12 09:44 GMT (UK)
Hi all
I have just come across this forum.  I am trying to trace back my father's family and so far I have found my great grandfather lived in Baker Street and Broad Street.   His marriage record in 1884 gives his address as Broad Street. The 1891 Census shows him living at 5 Baker Street with his wife and children.  The 1901 and 1911 census have him living at 52 Broad Street.   He was a tailor and as there were a number of other tailors shown at Broad Street, I was wondering if perhaps his employer actually owned the building and his employees rented the accomodation.
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: stirling76 on Tuesday 28 February 12 13:25 GMT (UK)
Hi all
I have just come across this forum.  I am trying to trace back my father's family and so far I have found my great grandfather lived in Baker Street and Broad Street.   His marriage record in 1884 gives his address as Broad Street. The 1891 Census shows him living at 5 Baker Street with his wife and children.  The 1901 and 1911 census have him living at 52 Broad Street.   He was a tailor and as there were a number of other tailors shown at Broad Street, I was wondering if perhaps his employer actually owned the building and his employees rented the accomodation.

Hi Conan325,
in the 1903 and 1909 Stirling Directories, there is a Bartholomew Kidd, Tailor living at 52 Broad Street, I assume this is your relative.
No 52 was a tenement block and most likely owned by a large landowner like the Cowane Trust, something along those lines.
There are no tailor businesses registered in Broad Street at this time, so he would have worked for someone else, maybe even from home, as there was no business registered under the name Kidd.
In the 1882 directory, there is no Kidd registered as a tailor in Stirling.

Sorry thats all I have.
Stewart
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: Conan325 on Tuesday 28 February 12 14:44 GMT (UK)
Hi
Thanks Stewart

yes Bartholomew Kidd was my great grandfather.   I know he was born in America in 1864/65.  I have been unable to find any trace until his marriage record in1884.  He was shown as a Tailor (Journeyman) which I understand is an apprentice.  I therefore assume he worked for someone else.
I also know his mother remarried someone with the surname Meikle, although I have been unable to find out if that wasin america, or back in Scotland
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: Fergie38 on Tuesday 28 February 12 17:17 GMT (UK)
The 1932 Stirling Street Directory shows a William Kidd living at 52 Broad Street.
There is also an Albert Victor Kidd living at number 48 Broad Street

Cheers
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 28 February 12 18:04 GMT (UK)
He was shown as a Tailor (Journeyman) which I understand is an apprentice.

No, that's not right. A journeyman is quite specifically not an apprentice any longer. He is a man who has completed his apprenticeship and is a qualified tradesman, working for pay for someone else. It doesn't necessarily mean that he was travelling about to earn a living; it is from the French 'journée' meaning 'the duration of a day' because originally he would have been paid by the day.

Once he has worked as a journeyman for a time, and gained experience, he may then set up on his own as a master, employing journeymen and/or training his own apprentices.

(Digression - the word 'journey' in the sense of travel is from the same French word, and originally meant the distance you could travel in a day. It has since changed its meaning to mean any duration of travel.)

Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: Fergie38 on Tuesday 28 February 12 20:23 GMT (UK)
Again in the 1932 Stirling index I have noted a Bartholomew Kidd, railwayman, at 54 Lower Bridge Street and a James Kidd, Grocer at 10 Bayne Street.
Cheers.
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: Conan325 on Tuesday 28 February 12 23:30 GMT (UK)
Thanks Fergie38
James Kidd was my grandfather and that address is where my father was born.
I believe the Bartholomew you mention was the youngest of my father's uncles
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: SandyMcJ on Sunday 01 April 12 19:43 BST (UK)
I think the houses in Broad St may have been renumbered at some time, possibly when the top of the town was being redeveloped. My great grandparents and subsequently Grandparents lived at 40 Broad St for many years, certainly from 1900's through to 1940's, but when my grandad died in 1955 his address was given as 23 Broad St. Tried to find no 40 a few years ago and seem to remember numbers don't go that high, but remember my dad pointing building  out to me when I was a boy and think these might have numbers in 20's now.
 By the way, useful Stirling directories from turn of 20th century are available from internet archive, eg for 1903 http://archive.org/details/cookwyliesstirli1903prin
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: UNDERTAKER on Monday 02 April 12 13:06 BST (UK)
Do you know if the Gillespie in that List was William as if so would be very interested in the date of the document as trying to find a William Gillespie who was a relative of a relative of mine Robert Gillespie.
P.S. my mum grew up on Broad Street so may know a bit more.


T.

 
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: stewart66 on Sunday 08 January 17 01:53 GMT (UK)
Hi,

My mother's granny lived in broad street and I can remember her talking about a parrot in a pet shop below.  Does anyone know the name or the owners of the pet shop?

Linda
Title: Re: Help please re. Broad St and Baker St - Stirling
Post by: SandyMcJ on Sunday 15 January 17 15:57 GMT (UK)
Only pet shop I remember in Stirling (1950's , 60's) was Archie's in Baker St.