RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Kilkenny => Topic started by: Ohanlon on Friday 14 January 11 09:22 GMT (UK)
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Please, can any one tell me anything about the Old RC Parish church of St John, Maudlin Street, Kilkenny?
It was a RC Mass House or church where my forebears, the O'Hanlons, worshipped before it was made redundant after a bequest from a local lad made good in the gold fields of Australia. He provided funds for the spectacular new one on Upper St John Street (?) a stone throw away in the early 1900s.
I wonder if there is anything left of the burial ground that surrounded it?
Any information and/or photographs would be well received.
(I have one I gleaned from a local website - it looks quite attractive - it was only about 60 years old before it was superceded. A bit sad, really.)
Thank you
James
Queensland.
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Have just finished posting a reply on your other church query- you can use a search engine like Google to find lots of information. Here's one mention of St. John's-
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading-room/history-heritage/heritage-towns/st.-johns-parish-kilkenny/church-of-saint-john-the-/
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Thank you again, aghadowey .....................
I have seen that site before and that is the photograph of the old St John's, I know of.
I am sure you would agree, perhaps, that the information of the old church is sadly lacking if this site is all we have to go on.
I would rather like to get hold of any historic information I can get my hands on. Apparently, there had been a mass house/chapel/church on the site for many, many years and the last one in particular where my ancestors worshipped had a limited life span given the new one was built after less than 60 years.
I wonder if the graves that surrounded the building are still there?
Thanks again
James
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aghadowey .... just by chance I was browsing ....... and I was delighted to find an entry of your's dated August 09 (I think) and posted findings by Anna Ryan of Internment.net (cemetery records online) which ........ refer to the Old St John's cemetery in beloved Kilkenny with some info on graves located within its walls. Not a complete list yet .... no O'Hanlons ........ but I live in hope.
Thanks for that.
James
PS I note I received email notification that a message was sent from you but found nothing new there....?
Just one of those hiccups...?
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Hi James,
I was browsing the rootchat website and saw your post. I have family buried in St. Johns R.C. graveyard , St. Johns Parish, Kilkenny too.
I have some information on the graveyard. Looking at my sources I can only find one Hanlon Grave in it; as follows:
note it is Hanlon not O'Hanlon.
Erected by Michael Hanlon, Dublin Road, in memory of his son Pat Hanlon died 1857.
Other names which appear on headstones include Holahan, Holihan in the graveyard.
Best Regards Gerard
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Dear Gerard
Thank you for your message - whilst not directly kinsfolk, I suspect they are related to me as by the time of the Griffith Valuation there were only a handful of of Hanlons (they seemed to drop the O' at times, strangely) living in the St John's Parish. Dublin Road of course is in the parish - but I can't seem to find Pat in the GV - perhaps he was brought home for the burial?
I leave for Europe in a couple of weeks and will visit the graveyard in about four - no doubt an interesting experience - looking forward to it.
Thanks again
James
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Hi James,
Thats good to hear - hope you enjoy the visit.
The graveyard is on the Dublin Road; it should be easy to find.
Make sure you make time to visit Rothe House up on the main street. They are a local museum run by the Kilkenny Archeology Society with a lot of local publications and books for you to browse. Upstairs they have a library. If you ask in the shop they should help. You might have to pay to have access to the library but they should have a librarian who could help you look up some of the local books etc.
Best regards Gerard
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Many thanks & kind regards
James
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Hi Gerard, Does your source of info on St. John's graveyard include any Brophys? Thanks, Martha
Hi James,
I was browsing the rootchat website and saw your post. I have family buried in St. Johns R.C. graveyard , St. Johns Parish, Kilkenny too.
I have some information on the graveyard. Looking at my sources I can only find one Hanlon Grave in it; as follows:
note it is Hanlon not O'Hanlon.
Erected by Michael Hanlon, Dublin Road, in memory of his son Pat Hanlon died 1857.
Other names which appear on headstones include Holahan, Holihan in the graveyard.
Best Regards Gerard
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Hello Martha, sorry the for late reply. I was away with work and just checked my emails and saw there was a rootschat post from you. I looked up my book on St. Johns Graveyard and there is the following information:
Brophy: John Brophy, Michaels Lane, died 1886
(Michaels Lane is now called Michael Street)
In the families of Michael Lane (Street) of 1849 from Griffiths Valuation there is mention of William Brophy as a rated occupier.
Brophy: Edward Brophy died 1776
I hope this helps let me know if it is of use! Thanks Gerard
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Thanks Gerard! I appreciate that!! The one for Edward is rather interesting to me. Can't connect him into my tree but the name is appropriate. Will keep working ...
Thanks again, Martha
Hello Martha, sorry the for late reply. I was away with work and just checked my emails and saw there was a rootschat post from you. I looked up my book on St. Johns Graveyard and there is the following information:
Brophy: John Brophy, Michaels Lane, died 1886
(Michaels Lane is now called Michael Street)
In the families of Michael Lane (Street) of 1849 from Griffiths Valuation there is mention of William Brophy as a rated occupier.
Brophy: Edward Brophy died 1776
I hope this helps let me know if it is of use! Thanks Gerard
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My great grandparents lived in Maudlin Street, Kilkenny for a few generations, number 30 which I think must have been near the old Maudlin castle.
I can't get any information on them before Edward Tierney born around 1838 but many of them lived there. Does anyone know if any of them are buried in St John's Graveyard? The names I have are a couple by the name of Edward, Martin, Ellen (who was Shortall before marriage) Martin, Margaret and John.
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Hello Eileen,
You are correct Tierney's are living at no 30 Maudlin Street Kilkenny.
They are there on the 1901 census.
Edward (head of family), son Martin, daughter in law Margaret, a grandson Edward (son of Martin and Margaret) and another granddaughter Bridie Dowling.
The family are then living at No 32 Maudlin Street in 1911 census.
Edward seems to have gone (possibly deceased by 1911).
There is no mention of any of the family in the St. John's graveyard inscriptions in my book. This could suggest the following 1) they are there but did not put up any headstones, 2) they were buried in another graveyard or parish in Kilkenny. It is possible they were only renting the house in Maudlin Street whilst Martin was working in Kilkenny city as a barman (see census 1911) and Edward as a general labourer around 1901.
Assuming Edward's wife was dead by 1901; she is not buried or coming up in the book either for St. Johns so she may be buried somewhere else?
So that may explain that the family plot and graveyard/parish was somewhere else and not St. Johns. They may have returned to the original place to bury the family.
The book lists some of the families in the street in 1849 and the name Tierney does not appear either but the books is just a snapshot.
If you visit Maudlin Street today; No 30 may be in a different house as the numbering changed over the years so just bear that in mind if you ever visit.
Sorry I cannot be of more help
Gerard
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Remeber that the numbers in the 1901 and 1911 census may not be the actual address- they are just the enumerator's numbers for that particular census.
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Thank you so much both of you, very helpful. ;)
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It seems they were all originally from Leggetts Rath so maybe there is a churchyard there
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I wonder if the bridie dowling living in the household is related to my dowling family. I definitely had Dowlings on Maudlin Street.
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Please see attached a picture of the church that was in St John's old cemetery. It actually looked really great.
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It seems they were all originally from Leggetts Rath so maybe there is a churchyard there
Leggettsrath is a townland in St John's Parish close to Kilkenny