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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: jademb on Friday 14 January 11 04:39 GMT (UK)
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Finding it very difficult to track my gypsy side of the family as they didn't have too many documents. Would really appreciate it if anyone knew of any websites that are more specifically for gypsy genealogy, even more so if they have any information about them in Kent.
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Trying to find out about my family history. Would really appreciate it if anyone knew of any websites that are more specifically for Kent gypsy genealogy.
Mainly looking for the name BIGNELL at the moment.
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Hello Jade and welcome to rootschat.
Just noticed your two posts :)
Sorry,can't help with this specific question,have only a few gypsies and little experience of them ,but there is a "travelling people" board on the forum with lists of useful sites regarding gypsy and travelling people as well as experts on the subject more than willing to help you.
Regarding your request for Bignells in Kent,it would help if you could give what information you do have.Might be better to re-post your question on the Travelling People board.Just go to Forum at the top of the page and scroll down to Travelling People.
Best of luck
Barbara
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hi, jade, try the romanygenes site it has lots for the south of england, and kent. there are lots of other cotact site on it, there is also a council run web site for kent area, but i cannot think of it now. just type in romany conacts kent, and see what you get? good luck ..rob.g
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Hi,
I know what you mean I have been trying for ages to get information but it's just so vague
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try KENT HISTORY FORUM go into THE WAY WE WERE scroll down to GYPSY CAMP ASH TREE LANE and add your post
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This site is really useful for tracing Kent gypsies/travellers
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gypsy/gypsy.htm
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I would suggest posting details of the people you are looking for here on Rootschat .............. we all love to try and help! Just no mention of any living persons in order to protect their privacy etc..
Casalguidi :)
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Finding it very difficult to track my gypsy side of the family as they didn't have too many documents. Would really appreciate it if anyone knew of any websites that are more specifically for gypsy genealogy, even more so if they have any information about them in Kent.
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On the gypsygib website they have a 1911 transcription for edward 50 and phyllis bignell 52, with son, dau in law and gr dau, at habitation rd belvedere, kent, which i believe was part of the belvedere marsh settlement.
cheers, shane
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my granny & granfather was bignells ...george & genty there lived in corkes pit st mary cray ..there had 10 children...8 boys & 2 girls...the old woman(genty)also lived on belvedere marshes ....her name before she got married was lee
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HI,
I have an Emma Bignell on my family tree. She married a Joseph James in 1896 in Chalk Church in Kent. Her parents were Edward and Phillis Bignell.
I also had a Gt Aunt who lived in Corkes pit, her name was Alvina (Doll) Pettigrove (nee James) I visited there often as a child, and was really struck by the beautiful white bedspread on her bed!
Cheers Kuri. ;D
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Thanks everyone for all the tips really helpful. I haven't been on here in ages, wasn't ignoring you all.
my granny & granfather was bignells ...george & genty there lived in corkes pit st mary cray ..there had 10 children...8 boys & 2 girls...the old woman(genty)also lived on belvedere marshes ....her name before she got married was lee
Thanks i wasn't aware she lived at the marshes. They were my great great grandparents. Their son George married Florence and had my granddad James. I think they all still lived at corkes pit till they had my dad. Heard a rumor there were more than the 8 children i knew about. I heard there were 13?
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hi you may have found who you are looking for by now,I have some lee's living with my Romany ancestors in the Kent and sussex area's I also now of some Emmets "various spellings" who changed their name to lee.
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hi you may have found who you are looking for by now,I have some lee's living with my Romany ancestors in the Kent and sussex area's I also now of some Emmets "various spellings" who changed their name to lee.
No I'm still looking, Jenty seems to be almost untraceable. Found a certificate that puts her in Darford marrying George Bignell in 1916 (5 years after their son was supposedly born) so any info would be a huge help!
Thanks
J
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Do you have the actual details from the marriage certificate for "Jenty" LEE and George BIGNELL? If so, who are the marriage witnesses - could they be relatives? Is there a father listed for "Jenty"? Any address? Age? Who was the son bc1911?
Do you know when and where Jenty died/was buried to try and establish a birth date that way?
Any of this would be helpful in trying to help you.
Casalguidi :)
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Just checked through my old history stuff and found a Edward Bignell Basketmaker age 43 with his wife Emily 42, Son Sid!16. Son,George 13. and a daughter Eneligh! age 5 living at Crayford Marshes on the 1901 Census living in caravan's along side my ancestors the Jones and Lee famillies if it is any help.Census return a bit scribbly most born at Northfleet in Kent.
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Hi,
I have had a look on the ancestry site and there are quite a few trees with Jenty in although her name is spelt Gentilia. The photo that johnneddy has is according to what is on the ancestry site a photo of George Bignall and Gentilia and family taken in either 1924 or 1932 at Lamberhurst Kent.
Jenty was apparently born in 1889 and passed away in either 1978/79 and George was apparently born in 1888 and passed away in 1962.
There is also a photo of Jenty/Gentilia with three other people on the site.
I have also found a census for 1901 which may or may not be Jenty/Gentilia
Name:Gentilia Lee
Event:Census
Event Date:31 Mar 1901
Gender:Female
Age:3
Relationship to Head of Household:Daughter
Birthplace:Plumstead, Kent
Record Type:Household
Registration District:Woolwich
Sub-district:Plumstead East
Ecclesiastical Parish:St Michael & All Angels
Civil Parish:Plumstead
County:London, Middlesex
Nearly forgot some of the trees have Jenty's parents as Charles Lee and Eliza Boswell.
Regards
Lyne
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Hi,
If you go by the two spellings of the surname Bignall and Bignell, Free BMD shows the following children all born in Kent mostly Dartford, mothers surname Lee.
George Bignall 1912 Dartford
Walter Bignall 1920 Strood
Mary J Bignall 1925 Dartford
Ted Bignell 1914 Dartford
Wainess J Bignell 1916 Dartford
Phylliss Bignell 1918 Dartford
William Bignell 1923 Dartford
Jack Bignell 1927 Maidstone
Leonard Bignell 1931 Dartford
Charles Bignell 1934 Dartford
Regards
Lyne
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Hi again :),
Looking on the ancestry site a bit more it looks as though Phyllis Bignell born 1918 passed away in 2001, there are a couple of photos of her on the site Phyllis Lee, Nee Bignell.
George Bignell born 1912 if its the correct one passed away in 1968 and there is a possibility that Wainess J Bignell born 1916 may have been known as John W Bignell born 1916 passed away 1955.
Regards
Lyne
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Hi again,
On the GRU website a lady has George Bignall and Gentilia Lee in her tree.
Regards
Lyne
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Thanks so much Lyne! You information helped and I found the second picture you said about.
Thanks
Jade
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Your welcome Jade.
Regards
Lyne
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I know the Stanleys were Kent gypsies. I am also looking for any information on Digger Stanley as I am his Great, Great neice. Thanks anyone who has more info. I found some of it to be conflicting especially his wifes name. Thanks again.
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Hi, my name is David Johnson of Romany decent. (45 years old)
My Nans name was Genty Lee.
She came from belverdere marshes around about 1910.
Her dads name was Jimmy Lee. He died on a horse and trailer/cart.
Just trying to find out more information about were my family came from and the growth of it.
My mums name was Lilly Millen/Smith, after marriage. Although dead now (2006) she was also related to to the Emits and Hildens in some way.
She was born in Essex on the dodding hurst road in a traditional vardo in 1938.
Nan and Grandad and my mum traveled through Essex and Kent up until 1955.
Can anybody help find more information about my family. And links etc. my daughter has carried the family name Genty Johnson to this day who is now 20 years old.
Your help will be much appreciated. Looking forward to your results.
Also my mums brothers and sisters where called;
- Frank
- Naomi
- Elvie
- Genty.
My family today live in the dartford and sidcup and tonbridge and staplehurst and east Peckham (Kent).
Thank you very much if you can help.
Kind Regards,
David Johnson
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Welcome to Rootschat David.
There is a Genty MILLEN death registration Maidstone district March quarter 1985 which gives a date of birth as 16 March 1912 ........... would this be her?
Do you know if your grandmother had any brothers/sisters?
Casalguidi :)
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Hi :D
Yes that is my nan. I went to her funeral.
She use to be called Genty Lee (before she was married).
She had brothers and sister but unfortunatly I am unable to give you there names as I do not know sadly.
Thank you for your help. Anymore information or link please tell me :)
Kind Regards,
David Johnson
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hi there david1966 ,
just noticing the names in your family elvi, genty, frank, naiomi. these are quite traditional buckley names, so they have a connection with them and also the essex area is a favourite with the buckleys ??? you never know :)
hi also romany knaves
similar thing with the name genty/jenty, in the buckley line they use the spelling with the "g" not the " j" and ending with "y" or "i" just ot make it more complicated :)
i have a bignell married to a buckley, let meknow if you need the details and i will dig them out and list them for you 8)
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Hi David,
would this be the Emmetts of funfair fame that your Mum was related to?
I think Keith Emmett and Sons are still in business, based near Milton Keynes.
You might like to buy a copy of "The Family Trees of Damon and Thomas LEE" compiled by Eric Trudgill as there's Emmetts in the 1840s to 1880s on the tree showing the children of Isaac LEE and Lydia THATCHER. Isaac appears to be a brother of Thomas. The Emmett baptisms shown are all in Kent.
It's available from the Romany and Traveller Family History Society http://www.rtfhs.org.uk/
Hope this is useful info.
My mums name was Lilly Millen/Smith, after marriage. Although dead now (2006) she was also related to to the Emits and Hildens in some way.
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Oh hi, this is Dave. Thank you for mentioning about the Buckley family and also the book that I am advised to get.
I will look into it.
In the meantime if you know of any other information, please let me know :)
Thank you very much to everybody that has helped.
Kind Regards,
David Johnson :)
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Thanks everyone for all the tips really helpful. I haven't been on here in ages, wasn't ignoring you all.
my granny & granfather was bignells ...george & genty there lived in corkes pit st mary cray ..there had 10 children...8 boys & 2 girls...the old woman(genty)also lived on belvedere marshes ....her name before she got married was lee
Thanks i wasn't aware she lived at the marshes. They were my great great grandparents. Their son George married Florence and had my granddad James. I think they all still lived at corkes pit till they had my dad. Heard a rumor there were more than the 8 children i knew about. I heard there were 13?
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Hi, your granddad Jimmy was my cousen, the tree on ancestry is mine, if you are interested in knowing more let me know
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:DHi Tilly,
I see that you have downloaded some photos I put on Ancestry. I am related to James James born 1873 and his wife Alvinea Eastwood Breeds born 1876, they were my Gt. Grandpareants. Their eldest daughter Mary Ann was my grandmother. So how are we (I persume we are) related. Regards Carol. 8)
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Hi, Elvinia eastwood is a relation of my grandfather George Bignell B.1888 not sure how close relation wise, and James james is a relation on my son in-laws family, Quite a large family of James in area and mostly with same names very confusing. My son in-laws (2 ) both share the same grandmother Brittania James. George Bignells mother was Phyllis Eastwood, hope I havent confused you. regards, tilly
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Hi,
If you go by the two spellings of the surname Bignall and Bignell, Free BMD shows the following children all born in Kent mostly Dartford, mothers surname Lee.
George Bignall 1912 Dartford
Walter Bignall 1920 Strood
Mary J Bignall 1925 Dartford
Ted Bignell 1914 Dartford
Wainess J Bignell 1916 Dartford
Phylliss Bignell 1918 Dartford
William Bignell 1923 Dartford
Jack Bignell 1927 Maidstone
Leonard Bignell 1931 Dartford
Charles Bignell 1934 Dartford
Regards
Lyne
I believe Wainess Bignell was killed by a German bomb which landed on Corkes Meadow (aka Corkes Pit), Leesons Hill, St Paul's Cray, on the night of the 4th and 5th November 1940.
He was listed at the time, by the Metropolitan Police, as Waynus Ley [typo for Lee]. These incorrect details were then passed to the Commonwealth War Graves commission which records his death at http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/3114799/
There were three other casualties, at Corkes Meadow:
Edward Ley [Lee], husband of Annie, aged 58
Benjamin Eastwood, aged 65
Charlotte Baker, aged 9, daughter of William and Phoebe Baker
I also have a number of wounded travellers, in the same incident, including:
Frank Baker, aged 16, flesh wounds
Olley Buckley, aged 55, leg wound
Henry Eastwood, aged 16, leg wound
Harry Brown, aged 39, shrapnel wound
William Brown, age not stated, cuts and bruises
Henry Friend, age not stated, lacerated thigh
William Bunn (also recorded as William Brown), aged 2, fractured skull
The above were treated at the Orpington Hospital.
I would be interested to hear if anyone knows anything more about this tragedy, which affected the Kent Gypsy community, of which I can find very little.
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My great nan was Olive Eastwood, her father was Arthur Eastwood (1888 - 1967) and her mum was Harriet Willson (1892 - 1964) from Kent. Arthur was born in Liverpool.
I'm interested in looking for any Perfects / Birds / Stanleys from the Chatham area. They were gypsy relatives of mine and I've been having a bit of trouble tracing them. My great nan was Eliza Jane Perfect, her dad was Charles Leonard Perfect (1877 - 1919) and her mum was Elizabeth Bird (1878 - 1946) As far as I'm aware they lived in the Kent area their whole lives, souly around Chatham
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Hi,
My aunt Genty never liked the name so we called her junita or nita for short another aunt who was named after gran gusta (augusta) never like her name either so she called her self betty and another who was called fanny liked to be called fay.my friend julie lee's father is hezikiah lee but they started out as emmett and had come from essex,my sister inlaw is married to a hilden and he say's that they where from the ashford area of kent and originally came from germany one big family really.
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I'm interested in looking for any Perfects / Birds / Stanleys from the Chatham area. They were gypsy relatives of mine and I've been having a bit of trouble tracing them
Lisa, can you be more specific ie. names/dates/places of who you are looking for as Rootschatters may be able to help you look ........... another pair (or more) of eyes is often useful ;)
Casalguidi :)
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Charles Leonard Perfects parents -
Henry Perfect 1827 - unknown
Harriet (Emma) Perfect 1840 - unknown
Marriage in 1858 (possible)
Elizabeth Birds parents -
Henry Stanley 1855 - unknown
Mary Ann Bird 1857 - unknown
Marriage 1878
The Bird family all went under their mothers maiden name until at some point in life all changed to Stanley. Reason unknown
Is there any more dates etc you would like? Both familys lived in Chatham the majority of their lives
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I'm related to digger stanley on my dad's side, he was my grandads uncle! Iv seen everyone's comments and there's so many people in my family I didn't know about! Would be nice to speak to everyone! :-)
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My Kent gypsies were the Daisy family or Daysay as they are sometimes know. They were around the Sittingbourne to Folkestone areas and were mostly hawkers or seamen. Going back further they had marriage links with the Fagg family. I don't think they were neccessarily romany, but they were heavily into smuggling. The Bassett family also show up in this line.
Important things to remember are, you may find several baptisms for the same child, the mother's name was sometimes used instead of the father's and aliases were common when they didn't want to be known.
Hope that helps, and if anyone has heard of my lot, please let me know.
Kay
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Hello, my name is kathy I was a lee before I got married, Edward ley (lee) was my great grandfather and waynus ley (lee) was his son they did get bombed at corkses pit. My grandfather was vanny lee, waynus definitely wasn't a bignal, my great granny Annie was 48 when they died.
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Trying to find out about my family history. Would really appreciate it if anyone knew of any websites that are more specifically for Kent gypsy genealogy.
Mainly looking for the name BIGNELL at the moment.
My grandfather George bignall, siggy, and my granny Omi, was originally a Brazil, from Kent, my grandfather came from swanly St Mary's cray dartford way he has got a sister lucky and brother Jimmy I believe but don't know much bout this side of the family, was told a while ago that they was originally lees, he died bout 20 yr ago. My granny died 2 year ago her mother and father was Ada and Ben Brazil....wanna find where they all come from!!
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Trying to find out about my family history. Would really appreciate it if anyone knew of any websites that are more specifically for Kent gypsy genealogy.
Mainly looking for the name BIGNELL at the moment.
My grandfather George bignall, siggy, and my granny Omi, was originally a Brazil, from Kent, my grandfather came from swanly St Mary's cray dartford way he has got a sister lucky and brother Jimmy I believe but don't know much bout this side of the family, was told a while ago that they was originally lees, he died bout 20 yr ago. My granny died 2 year ago her mother and father was Ada and Ben Brazil....wanna find where they all come from!!
My granny's sister genty died last year there were 13 brothers all together only a couple left now, I grew up on church marshes site and travelled around for a bit, as some one said I spell my last name bignell but my father and grandfather were bignall! Don't know how or why that happened. Over the years we've lived around Willetts, lees, smiths....my granny knew all travellers from all over, could listen to her tales all day long, anyone knowing my granny or grandfathers side please get in touch
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looking for any info on this family.....granfather Willam smith who married me granny Elizabeth Franklin or frankham my sister going to see my aunt find out their dates brith date of marriage I do know that after the beleverdere marshes they moved in house address was 125 brook street they lived there for long time
William smith date birth 9/7/1904 his family from Waltham cross his dad Bob smith mother Sarha loveridge
his brothers joe & Charlie & john sisters lovely & susie & dolly my granfather willie lived in house 125 brook street Erith for bout 18 yrs after he came off the belverdere marshes.
a muddle i know but my friend dosnt know much more than this i am afraid.can any one help?
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William Smith and Lizzie Franklin married in Bromley in 1927.
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thanks.that confirms what i found last night after much searching.can you go back at all and find perants?its causing me quite a headache.thanks for your help
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Will have a look about for you cathay to see if I can find anything.
Waltham Cross is in Hertfordshire, so that's a good place to start searching.
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yes i have tried there on ancerstry but either i need new glasses or hes not there.wouldnt mind finding his wifes perants either but i having no luck.would be a surname smith wouldnt it!!!!??
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Yep definitely not easy Smith and Loveridge.
I might have to have a chat with a couple of people who might be able to help.
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thank you.i have a feeling that robert smith and sarah might have been his grandperants.i have found them in 1911 with a william gray and louise.but william is down as nephew.apparently although he married as a smith and buried as a smith he was born a gray!!!his father/grandfather known as robert/bob gray.very confusing.it look like he was born in hertfordshre but later lived on belvedere marshes.kent
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Very confusing when people changed surnames lol, was thinking that Sarah Loveridge could have also used the name Parker.
Will also have to look at records for Bedfordshire and Cambridgeshire as there was quite a lot of Grays that lived in those areas to.
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Im from Ashford Kent my dad's hilden so we are all about still I'm just doi g a family tree
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Hello I am new on here and finding my round the site.
I am trying to find out a bit more about my Romany background.
My great grandmother was PHEOBE RANSLEY born 1888 .
She married a WILLIAM STAVELEY. also born 1888.
They had 4 daughters. PHEOBE. PATIENCE
GENTY .TILLY.
It seems they go back to living around Kent. Ended up in Sheerness.
Anyone know anything about the family name .