RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Mrs Dalloway on Sunday 23 January 11 15:57 GMT (UK)
-
Hi. I am trying to figure out what this birth certificate says... David Milligan is the father.. possibly a Gunner?? but where in Swords did his live.. Portrane? and something beginning with a 'H'. Also, could you please help me with the address of the person who registered the birth and her address?
Registrar's District: Swords
In the Union of Balrothery
Thanks in advance for any help offered.
Regards, Clarrisabell
-
The best I can make of the last section is:
her
Harriet + Davis[on?]
Mark
House - keeper
Present at the
birth. [? ? ? ? ?]
I'm not familiar with Irish place names I'm afraid
Mike
-
Thanks Mike. I know there was a Mental institution in Portrane... so I wonder if there was a workhouse there too perhaps? I hope this doesnt lead down a sad road...
Clarissabell
-
can you include a bit more of the 'name & dwelling place of father' column (esp. to the left) ?
Also what's the registration district and sub district on the cert?
(details and another scan added to first post)
Shane
-
On reflection I don't think it is Harriet, the first letter is nothing like the H of House below
Mike
-
On reflection I don't think it is Harriet, the first letter is nothing like the H of House below
... agreed ... especially when you remove the +
-
the first one looks like
David Milligan,..... Portrane
cant make out the middle line
Not sure about occupation - the second letter (or is it part of the first?) has a fairly definite descender - possibly a y?
agree with Mike's suggestion for the last column
.... Davison X her mark
house-keeper present at the birth
and I think the last word could be Portrane again with a strange swirl overlapping at the end.
Shane
-
Thanks guys. I thought the name of the informant was Anne Davis...
Hi again Shane. Registration district is Swords, in the Union of Balrothery. The Superintendent Registrar's District is given as Balrothery 'something'. Not sure if it is important. Thanks, Clarissabell
-
I think both placenames are probably Portrane.. the middle line on the father's name and residence is difficult - ending with ...ace is all I can make out for certain
Does the place of birth say Portrane also ?
Shane
-
Yes Shane. The Birth colum just says Portrane and the date.
I think I may have found a record for the birth of a sibling, living at Donabate in Swords...
Clarissabel
-
is this from a birth cert for a James Milligan in 1864?
unfortunately there's no sign of any Milligan entries in the area on Griffth's, which might have helped with the location
Shane
-
... agreed ... especially when you remove the +
ooops! rather a feeble effort on my part . . . :-[
I agree with Anne for the first name, and I think the swirl overlapping Portrane is from the line below.
Mike.
-
Yes Shane, James Milligan (or Mulligan). Up until now I thought the family were from Dublin City - his younger siblings were born there... but now it appears that he and a sister were born in North County Dublin.
Thanks Mike - all efforts are most welcome. I just am glad to learn that Anne was a house keeper... and not some kind of warden in a workhouse/mental institution... that would be sad to hear.
Clarissabell
-
going slightly off the original topic - another possible child of David and Bridget in South Dublin :
name: David Milligan
Birth date: 14 Dec 1871
Birthplace: 697, No 3 South City, City Of Dublin
Father's name: David Milligan
Mother's name: Bridget Henegan
Shane
-
Yes Shane - He's a sibling. He apparently went to war and never came home. But we never knew about James.
Clarissabell
-
I cant make out that middle line at all... I've checked townlands etc near Portrane and cant see anything that seems to fit.
The first letter looks a bit like a H, or maybe Fl, but the extra swirls this registrar adds makes it difficult to see what he meant.
The only townlands in the Swords sub-distrct that begin with H are - Hilltown and Hollybank, and there's none beginning with 'Fl'
Is there any other section of the cert that looks similar to this ?
Shane
-
Could the informant be Janet rather than Harriet?
-
Bingo Shane - the Date reads Twenty first and the 'T' of the twenty is the same what we thought was a 'H'... So it is a place beginning with a T... maybe a 'TL.. or a 'The... ??
Hi Veeblevort, thanks for your suggestion. I think the 't' you are looking at in the name 'Janet' is actual the X from 'Marks her Name' above. :)
Clarissabell
-
It doesn't say 'The Tower, Portrane' does it?
Clarissabell
-
places beginning with T in the Swords sub-district
Turvey, Tongelee & Townparks
It doesn't say 'The Tower, Portrane' does it?
or maybe 'The Town' with a really bad 'n' ?
Shane
-
It doesn't say 'The Tower, Portrane' does it?
Clarissabell
or another thought... if David is a gunner could there be a military installation of some sort nearby - i.e. a fort or tower ?
Shane
-
it might not be relevant - but have a look at this on the historic OSI maps - The Tower, Portrane (http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,725628,750267,7)
p.s. there's a Martello tower in Portrane... not sure if the map shows this or another one
Shane
-
different tower in Portrane - Martello Tower (http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,726256,750564,7)
looking promising - I think Martello towers would have been manned at that time.
Shane
-
I cant believe that there are two possible towers.. once it is not a Jane Eyre kind of tower!! So maybe he was a Gunner. I'll have to do a bit of digging there then. Fine work Shane... lots to think about now ;D
-
I cannot image a Gunner - the lowest rank in the Royal Artillery - having a house keeper. You could check regimental BMDs on sites such as Findmypast. They include home 'events'. If you get a hit you can order the certificate from the UK GRO.
Ken
-
I make it The ***ace...Portrane..
-
Thanks Km1971 and hallmark. Ken, I'll have a look on that site. I'm only delighted that I have an occupation for him, if it actually says Gunner. It all later certs his occupation is given as pensioner... even on his childrens' birth cert.s which I thought was weird. I mean how old would he have to have been to be called a pensioner? I dont if he had a house keeper as they weren't well off at all in later years.
Thanks,
Clarissabell
-
The house-keeper may not have worked in the Milligan house-hold, she could just be a local that helped in the birth i.e. a type of local midwife
allowing for all the additional swirls on the cert - 'Gunner' looks like a reasonable interpretation of his occupation.
A military career could give him a pension .... not many occupations did in those days.
Shane
-
It seems weird when you see Pensioner but as Shane says military/Police etc got pensions, many only after short service if injured etc.
It's not an Old Age pension.
-
Thanks Hallmark. That was the mistake I made... of course - NOT an OAP...All along I thought he must have been very old having a family. It all makes sense now. :)
Clarissabell
-
Beside the Martello Tower there are what were known as Coastguard cottages which were manned at one point in time. They are to the left of the map where the box says Tower Bay on the map.
http://www.coastguardsofyesteryear.org/articles.php?article_id=188
There are clearly records at Kew which may have more detail.
-
How interesting Oliverd. You certainly have rekindled my interest in this branch of the tree and given me a knew lead to follow. Your piece about your trip to Kew was very enjoyable and I have to admit to being a little jealous too! Thanks again for your insight and knowledge. Clarissabell
-
Hi Clarissa
Not willing to accept credit for trip to Kew as definitely not mine as just copied website. I do know the Tower area well and after reading the pensioner bit I figured may be a Coastguard pension as the houses are still there.
Portrane was actually the original Port for Lambay Island prior to it being moved to Rogerstown and its location is pretty good at spotting anything on the sea.
(On a side note if you have ever watched Fr Ted the Priests games were actually filmed right beside the Martello Tower, think it was called Funland ?)
-
Hi
Could I suggest that he might have served in the Navy or the Revenue Service.
The Gunner on a warship held the rank of warrant officer, being appointed by the Admiralty, also each Revenue Cruiser had a gunner, with an equivalent status to the same rate in the RN. If he is linked to a Coastguard Establishment, it is more likely that he was serving on a Revenue Crusier.
Martin
-
Crimea
Good you turned up to accept the credit :) as was you on the Coastguard site who gave me the idea.
How big were the Revenue cruisers ?
If a rowboat or a bit bigger then possible knowing the location but if say schooner type size then possibly not.
-
Cutters varied in size, and the crews ranged between 8-30. Eight was quite small, with most crews falling into the 16-25 bracket, but there was only ever one gunner.
Martin
-
Thanks Crimea - that is very interesting as an old aunt of mine told me once that her grandmother once spoke of this man, saying 'he went to sea and never came back'. . That would seem to make sense now. I have just found a photo of David Milligan and I wonder if you would could tell me if the uniform is possibly naval?? I know this is a bit off track, but I thought I'd give it a go... It might help! Regards, Clarisabell
-
Just to fill in the gaps - I have now established that this photo is of a Royal Field Artillery Gunner - young David Milligan. The original deciphering request related to his father, also David Milligan, who, you will remember, was a gunner in Portrane. At least we can establish that the father was most likely a gunner as the cert said. His other son, James Milligan is referred to in David Jr's military records as being a gunner in the Royal Artillery - so perhaps it was a family occupation!
Clarissabell