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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: mcrobie1 on Sunday 20 February 11 02:20 GMT (UK)
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Hi all hoping someone can help me.
My father was born in bedwelty 1921, name Wilfred George Williams. All I know is his mothers maiden name was Morgan, apparently his parents both died and he was raised by an aunt with the surname Dagger. He does not seem to appear in any census records I have checked and next appears when he married my mother Joan Farmer in Southhampton. Dad joined the navy as a youngman. This is all the information I have.
Any help gratefully recieved.thanks
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Hello and welcome to RootsChat
You will not find your father on any census -as the most recent census available to view is the 1911 (that is a pay per view site )
With a name like Williams and mother's name Morgan in Wales - it is difficult to search
You really need key certificates to get you started
If you have Wilfred's birth cert that will give parents names and would be a help.
Suz
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thank you I appreciate your help.
I will be ordering the birth cert this week.
Any ideas re the aunt Dagger? I knew williams and morgan would be a challenge in Wales.
Thanks
Jan
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there is a marriage reg
Hubert Dagger
Elizabeth A Morgan
Jun qtr 1913
Bedwellty district
11a 145
There is a family of Morgans (more than one!!!) in New tredegar who have a daughter Elizabeth A -and other daughters but I can't find any of the other daughters married to a Williams
Difficult tho
How old was Wilfred when he went to live with Aunt"Dagger"??
Where did he live??
Did he have any siblings????
Suz
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hi there,
thank you for your interest.
I believe dad had siblings, but not 100% sure.
No one has any idea about what age he was when he went to live with his Aunt, Dad passed away a number of years ago and both he and mum are very private about family history which is making things very difficult. i have ordered dads birth cert so maybe it will help shed some light. I do remember dad saying he had a brother in the army who was killed during the war. But whether it was a true brother or not i have no idea. I believe dad lived in Ebavale as he mentioned it often when I was a child.
Very difficult to find out / search from Australia very glad of internet.
Thanks
Jan
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Hopefully we can get on the right track when birth cert arrives --please post details so we can help
Meanwhile have been doing some detective work - please remember this is guesswork until certificate arrives
The extra snippets of info have helped
Ebbw Vale comes within Bedwelty registration district
the Elizabeth A Morgan /Hubert Dagger is the only Morgan/Dagger marriage I can find in the area.
So let's assume for the time being that Elizabeth A Morgan had a sister who married a Williams -and gave birth to Wilfred George Williams
Firstly it seems Elizabeth A Morgan and Hubert Dagger had 3 children -but only one survived to adulthood
Frederick J Dagger (mother's maiden name Morgan birth reg Sept qtr 1915 bedwellty
death reg age 0 Mar qtr 1916 Bedwellty
Hubert G Dagger mother's maiden name Morgan birth reg 1917 Bedwellty
poss death reg Hubert george Dagger born 9 Apr 1917
death reg Oct 1984 Bromsgrove Worcetershire 29 12
1961 phone book shows Dagger H.G. 213 Birchfield Rd Redditch3572
there is a death reg which may be Elizabeth A Morgan -married Dagger'
Death reg
Elizabeth A Dagger Jun qtr 1949 age 56 Bedwellty 8c 87
possibly Hubert then went to spend the rest of his days with son Hubert G
Death reg Hubert Dagger born 2 Sept 1885 death reg 1979 Bromsgrove district
Maybe??
Back to Elizabeth A Morgan
This looks like a possibility for her 1901
Beech Terrace EBBW VALE Mon
John Morgan Head M 37 Insurance agent Merthyr Glamorgan
Mary wife 37 St Issells Pembrokeshire
ELIZABETH A daughter 8 Ebbw Vale Mon
Robert J son 4 Ebbw Vale Mon
Beatrice M daughter 1 Ebbw Vale
RG13 4940 105 14
so Elizabeth had a sister Beatrice M!!!
There is a marriage
Dec qtr 1916
Abergavenny
Beatrice M Morgan
Alfred G Williams
11a 103
so could this be Wilfred George's parents ???
Only problem there are 3 beatrice M Morgan birth reg in Bedwellty district
2 in 1899 and one in 1890???
it looks very feasible
Auntie Elizabeth A dagger would only have 1 child at home so would be able to take Wilfred in willingly
As for Wilfred's parents both dying young -it may be so
but also maybe Dad died and Mum remarried -new hubby didn't want children
or vice versa
there is also this birth reg
beatrice M Williams mother's maiden name Morgan Mar qtr 1919 Bedwellty 11a 178 -who if we have "guessed" Wilfred's parents correctly -could be his sister??
I haven't managed to find a death which "rings any bells" in WW2 Roll of Honour
I am looking forward to the birth cert details almost a much as you must be
Suz
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thank you it will be great to get the birth certificate. ( they take so long ) will post it as soon as .If anything else comes to light i will post as well thanks for your help your amazing.
cheers
Jan
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Please do -any little snippet may help -don't forget all that I have done is mainly "guesswork" If birth cert proves it to be otherwise -then we start again -no problem
Suz
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hi again
Dads Navy service Number R?N, AbleSeaman D/SSX26797
Is there any way we are able to search his records to see what ships he was on etc.
Cheers
Jan
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This is a link to apply for records - I think you have to be next of kin and there is a fee .
http://www.veterans-uk.info/service-records/service-records.html
You may get more advice if you post a request on Armed Forces section
There are RootsChatters who specialise in this area of research
Suz
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I think? the family may have been recorded sometimes as Daggar, youngest son David married a Ceinwen Morgan in 1912, could she be the aunt Wilfred was left with?
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Hi I have Reviewed Email of Dads Birthcertificate details are
Wilfred George Williams DOB 8/4/1921
Father William David Williams Stem Crane Driver
Mother Annie Mary Williams Formerly Morgan
Lived at 11 Pennant Street EBBVale
Any one willing or able to help with info about the family, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thank You
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1901
14 Armoury? St
Rees Williams 49, engine valve ? born Nantyglo
Annie Williams 49 all others born Ebbw vale
Lewis 27 steam engine fitter
William D 21 steam crane driver
oil in the blood of this lot.
Try and work out the dagger connetion now,
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this looks like your dad's parents marriage
William David Williams
Annie Mary Morgan
Jun qtr 1906
Bedwellty
11a 141
so I would imagine as your father wasn't born until 1921 he possibly had a number of older siblings
I think 2 of them were William John Williams c. 1908 Ebbw Vale
Clifford Rees Williams c.1910 Ebbw Vale
It looks like RCB has found your grandfather in 1901
Suz
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1901
14 Armoury? St
Rees Williams 49, engine valve ? born Nantyglo
Annie Williams 49 all others born Ebbw vale
Lewis 27 steam engine fitter
William D 21 steam crane driver
oil in the blood of this lot.
Try and work out the dagger connetion now,
here's the ref for 1901
ref RG13 4940 75 11
there was also a nephew living with them William B Davies U 21 General labourer Engineering Glamorgan
Suz
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think this is Gran
1901
Vicarage Ebbw Vale Mon
Annie M Morgan servant 16 Housemaid domestic Swansea Glamorgamn
in household of William C Williams (rector) age 44
RG13 4940 84 29
Suz
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Hi all,
Annie Mary Morgan, Father John Morgan
Married William David Williams April 16th 1906, at the Christchurch in the Parish of Ebbwvale, By Rev WC Williams. Annie previously had been a servant at vicarage.
Annie Mary Williams ( Nee Morgan died 28th of April 1921 ) 20 days after my father Wilfred George Williams was born.
Any ideas on how i can find out any more information, especially regarding an Aunt Dagger who raised Dad, and what happened to William David Williams after his wife died.
Any ideas on how to continue my search for information greatly appreciated.
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Hi thanking you all for your help and i apologise for the double post and any annoyance caused, I am new to this whole thing please be patient :-[
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Have seen posting from mcrobie1 seeking information about his father Wilfred Williams, who lived with my grandparents in Ebbw Vale. I have more information re this
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Hi Peter
Welcome to Rootschat.
I see that mcrobie1 was last active in 2011. Don't know therefore if he will still be receiving any alerts to topics posted by him.
As you are new and not able to send any personal messages yet, I will do so for you. I will give mcrobie the link to this post.
Whether you will get any response or not remains to be seen.
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Hi, my brother and I are trying to contact you as we noticed your enquiries 7 years ago about your father Wilf. Our grandparents Hubert & Elizabeth Dagger (nee Morgan) brought your father up after your grandparents died. Our father Hubert George Dagger was 4 years older, a cousin to Wilf but probably more like a brother. We have pictures of your father, some in his Navy uniform. He visited our house in Redditch when we were children, possibly in late 50's or early 60's. It would be great to hear from you to share family memories,
Best wishes
Bob
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Hi Peter, have just posted another message onto the thread opened by mcrobie1
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Hi Peter,
I'm not sure if you still receive notifications for this message board, I hope this gets to you. I have been asked by Janet McRobie to undertake research into her father Wilfred Williams. I came across your response to her post in 2011 and have let her know that you tried to contact her. She is very keen to connect and learn more about her father and his Welsh ancestry. Janet understands her father was raised by her aunt, and has recently learnt of Florence and Alice, supposedly twins? I have found Florence, but have not yet found an Alice.
We look forward to hearing from you.
Kind regards,
Natasha Wells
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Hello Tasha welcome to Rootschat
I'm afraid it is Rootschat policy not to put email addresses on here to preventing spamming etc. so you will need to remove it.
You may like to give information as to what Janet is looking for so that the Rootschatters can help if possible.
May be worthwhile getting the mcrobie1 post merged with this one so all the relevant information is in one place.
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I have requested the moderator to merge the topics.
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I'm afraid it is Rootschat policy not to put email addresses on here to preventing spamming etc. so you will need to remove it.
......... especially when the email address belongs to the poster's genealogy business?
Carol
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Ok fair enough, I wasn't aware that business emails were exempt.
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??? They're not exempt. I agreed with you, and added 'especially' business emails.
Carol
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Sorry Carol, my brain isn't working very well today ::)
Didn't read it properly :'(
Must do better!
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No worries ;D
My brain's just reminded me that I'm supposed to be doing something else right now, so there could be trouble ahead :o
Bye!
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Hi I have just merged the topics together so that the poster will be informed of replies to his topic.
I am sorry but mcrobie1 is no longer picking up their email notifications, it looks like they have changed email address and we do not know what the new email address is?
Regards
Sarah
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OK, thanks Sarah :)
Not much you can do when someone doesn't tell Rootschat they have changed their email address ::)
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Hello all,
Apologies for my blunder. The time difference has meant I've only just been able to respond to this.
Could you please advise how I can connect Janet to her family if emails can not be exchanged? Much appreciated.
Natasha
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Emails can be exchanged via personal message but you need to have made two replies on the topic before anyone can contact you.
Would it be possible for Janet to join Rootschat? It doesn't cost anything and she can then keep up with all the latest developments.
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Thank you, I've just talked to Janet, she will see if she can remember her email/username or will set up a new profile. Thank you for your help.
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Hi I moved countries and wasn’t getting far with the search now back and still looking- have slightly more family information twin sisters Alice & Florence possibly dads adopted family Dagger or Williams keen to contact anyone who could be related or knowledgeable
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Hi now back on roots chat keen to contact Reggard 67 regarding Wilfred George Williams / Dagger
Ebba Vale
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I've just sent a message to Reggard as I see that he is online now. Given him the link to this topic. Not sure if he will get the message as he has only done two posts. Will have to wait and see.