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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: whiteKat on Sunday 20 March 11 11:12 GMT (UK)

Title: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Sunday 20 March 11 11:12 GMT (UK)
I am trying to find my ancestor Edward Ashwin who died quite young as family story relates. Edward I am told died of ‘black jaundice’ which now I believe is known as Weil’s Disease.

Edward was married to Elizabeth Wheeler in 1814 at South Littleton. Edward and Elizabeth had their last child Martin Richard Ashwin in 1831. After Edward’s death Elizabeth went to new Zealand with Martin Richard and his family around 1863.

I have found a burial of an Edward Ashwin on 22nd September 1832 - St Lawrence at Bidford on Avon. This date correlates with family story. This could be my Edward!

I am wondering if anyone would have any information on this Edward Ashwin particularly as to where he was born and who his parents were. I think Edward was born around the 1790’s.

Edward is being very ellusive and I am trying to place him properly as family story is very jumbled - so any information would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: On finding the real Edward Ashwin!
Post by: jim1 on Sunday 20 March 11 13:34 GMT (UK)
I'm not sure you have the right Edward when you say he married in 1814.
There is another Edward Ashwin who married Elizabeth Wells 1823 Church Honeybourne which is 2 mls. from South Littleton.Although there are 2 children prior to this she seems a bit young to have married 1814 so it may be worth considering.
There is a birth registered for Edward Ashwin 1802 Church Honeybourne.
You will need to see the death entry for any more info. on Edward,son of,wife of etc.
You will also need to see their marriage in case another family member was witness.
Edit:OK it may be her after all,can't find an Elizabeth Wells b. Worcs. but there is an Elizabeth Wheeler b. Himbleton c.1795 which is about 4 mls. from Wick.
jim
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD AHSWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Tuesday 22 March 11 22:08 GMT (UK)
Hello jim 1

Thank you for your information. My Edward did marry an Elizabeth Wheeler as I have much evidence in support of this. Elizabeth was born in 1796 at Wick to a Sarah (Rimell) and Richard Wheeler.

I cannot place Edward however. I have found an Edward born in Birmingham in 1788 to an Edward Ashwin and Ann (Roberts). I have found an Edward Ashwin born in 1790 to a Thomas and Pheobe Ashwin. And your find in 1802 would be a little young I think.

Family history says he was born to a Thomas and Ann - but in all my research I find nothing to support this as I believe the Thomas spoken of in family history was born in 1801 as the children mentioned born to them were born in the 1830s and with no Edward amongst them - far to late to be my Edward.

It is a real jumble. The Edward spoken of in family history is supposed to also be of the Ashwins of Bretfortin Manor. I would like to find evidence to support this but can find none.

Any help further would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD AHSWIN!
Post by: jim1 on Tuesday 22 March 11 22:56 GMT (UK)
There's no alternative but to view the death & marriage as that's all there is about him,hopefully additional information will lead somewhere.As you have positive dates you could email the War.CRO & ask them to look for you.They usually do this free of charge but will only do one,as the marriage is more likely to have extra details that's the one to go for.

jim
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD AHSWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Wednesday 23 March 11 05:55 GMT (UK)
Thanks for your advice - I will try that and hope for some more revealing information on my elusive man. I would go myself however I am in Australia - a bit too far to go at present!

whiteKat
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD AHSWIN!
Post by: jim1 on Wednesday 23 March 11 11:13 GMT (UK)
You could ask on the War. lookup page & see if anyone's going there soon.

jim
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: sillgen on Wednesday 23 March 11 18:13 GMT (UK)
Have you looked for wills?   See a few at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchtype=powersearch&query=last_name%3dashwin%7cplace%3dwarwickshire&catid=6&mediaarray=*&pagenumber=1&querytype=1

Or used the A2A site to search for references to Bretforton Manor?   Might be useful so it is worth a try.
Andrea
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: sillgen on Wednesday 23 March 11 18:19 GMT (UK)
Bearing in mind that Bretforton is in Worcestershire a seach for Ashwin wills there is even better!
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchtype=powersearch&query=last_name%3dashwin%7cplace%3dworcestershire&catid=6&mediaarray=*&pagenumber=1&querytype=1

Might be worth getting the 1814 one - you order it via the site and they send it direct to you via email.
Andrea
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Thursday 24 March 11 00:34 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much. I am really getting excited and feel I could possibly be getting a little closer to either thinking there is a link with some Ashwins or ruling others out. Your help and direction is greatly appreciated. I will most certainly pursue your suggestions.

whiteKat
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: Ashwin descendant on Friday 21 October 11 06:20 BST (UK)
Thank you so much. I am really getting excited and feel I could possibly be getting a little closer to either thinking there is a link with some Ashwins or ruling others out. Your help and direction is greatly appreciated. I will most certainly pursue your suggestions.

whiteKat
Hi, I am a descendant of the Martin Richard Ashwin (born 1831 or 1832) you mention. Martin Richard married Emma Priscilla Copson and, together with 7 children emigrated to New Zealand, where they proceeded to have 11 more children, as I have recently found out. Have you managed to dig up any further information?
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Friday 21 October 11 22:30 BST (UK)
Hello Ashwin descendant,
I see that this is your first post. I have found Rootschat an amazing site - it opens many doors! Hope you find the same.
I am wondering which of the 18 children you are descended from - an amazing number - it doesn't bear thinking about! It must have been a tough life.
Regards
whiteKat
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: Ashwin descendant on Wednesday 02 November 11 04:35 GMT (UK)
My great grandfather was Manley Ashwin. Off the top of my head I think he was the 11th child and I also think he was born in Little Akaloa, Banks Peninsula, the place where I understand the Ashwin family first moved to in New Zealand (in 1865?)after emigrating from England, and before moving to Hautapu near Cambridge. One of Manley's sons, Sir Bernard Ashwin, was my grandmother's (Doris Ida Martin née Ashwin) older brother. I live in Auckland.  I have only really begun to look into the Ashwin family history, thanks to discovering some information held by late father that belonged to Noel Ashwin, another brother of my late grandmother, and also a visit to the Cambridge Museum in the Waikato. My father was aware of the Bretforten connection and had visited there many years ago.
In searching for other living Ashwins in NZ, I am surprised by the lack of Ashwin surnames in the telephone directory.
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Saturday 12 November 11 08:30 GMT (UK)
Hello Ashwin descendant,
Sorry for the delay in replying to your post but have been away and no access to internet. And yes - I believe you are correct - Manley John Ashwin was the eleventh child of Emma Priscilla and Richard Martin. My Great Grandmother was Esther Alexandra Cunningham Ashwin and I believe the first of Emma and Richard's children to be born in New Zealand - she was a grand lady living to 90.

I feel I have come to a bit of a brick wall with Edward and finding it really hard to trace his true parentage. I have in my possession copy of a letter from Martin Richard to his son - your Great Grandfather Manley John -written in 1895, I imagine you would know of this letter as it is your direct line? I find it very confusing as a lot of detail does not tally - yet there must be some significance to reality of truth. You do know of the letter of which I speak?

The closest I come to identify Edward's parentage is Thomas marrying a Phoebe - but I have no verification - and this is in conflict with the letter. It really is hard work but I trudge on when time allows.

There has to be a connection with Bretfortin Manor - but which branch of the Ashwin family I can find no evidence. I was in the UK last year and visited the Manor - I could only look at it from the street however. It looked quite magnificent. Unfortunately I didn't have time to pursue it further - no doubt the local library would hold a wealth of information. I believe the Ashwins have been in Bretfortin for a number of centuries.

I hope we can find more on these elusive Ashwins.

Regards
whiteKat
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: jim1 on Saturday 12 November 11 11:01 GMT (UK)
I don't know if you have this but Edward who died in 1832 is listed as living at Cook Hill Bidford & aged 43.

jim
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Saturday 12 November 11 12:30 GMT (UK)
Hello Jim,
Thank you for your information on Edward Ashwin's burial - it is much appreciated. I have found a burial of an Edward Ashwin on 22 Sept 1832 in Bidford, Warwickshire, age 43 with birth in 1789 on Family Search Deaths and Burials - but with no mention of Cook Hill. 

I believe this Edward to be my Edward but have no proof. I am wondering if your information comes from a different source to my find - whereby I could make further search.  I do not know the name of the Parish or the Church - I would love to find these to learn more. My search continues nonetheless.

Regards
Kate
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: Ashwin descendant on Sunday 13 November 11 10:35 GMT (UK)
Hello

I have only just begin the journey of finding out about the ancestors, so unfortunately can not offer any new info regarding Edward Ashwin's life. As I continue my investigations I will of course pass on any novelties.

And no, I am not at all aware of the letter you talk of, though I would dearly love to see a copy.

At this stage, I am looking into trying to trace descendants of Martin Richard here in New Zealand and, being somewhat of an historian, I am researching the history of Saxon immigration into Great Britain. It appears that the area near what was later called Bretfortin, was invaded by a Saxon King called Aescwine of Wessex in the second half of the 7th century. Given that apples generally don't fall far from the tree, it only took a brief online search of the UK telephone directory to ascertain that Ashwin is an unusual surname, and virtually all Ashwins in the UK live in the counties surrounding Bretfortin.

Martin Richard was very definitely an unusual man. If you have any info about the family you could pass on to me, I would very much appreciate it.
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Sunday 13 November 11 11:54 GMT (UK)
Hello Ashwin descendant,

I have read your post and will certainly reply - however it is late in the evening here in Australia and have no time tonight- and tomorrow I will be in Sydney all day - so I will reply on Tuesday - the day permitting.

I have found the search for ancestors most exciting and it is amazing what can be discovered - especially here on Rootschat. Yes Martin Richard had a varied career on his life journey - do you mean 'unusual' in any particular way? Will talk more soon.

Regards
Kate
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: jim1 on Sunday 13 November 11 18:15 GMT (UK)
The Parish Church for Bidford-on-Avon is St.Laurence's.The info came from the Ancestry PR's for Warks.

jim
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: Ashwin descendant on Sunday 13 November 11 18:45 GMT (UK)
Hello,

No, I only meant "unusual" in the sense of upping sticks with 7 children and his mother from the rather benign and benevolent region of Warwickshire to take a long and dangerous ocean journey in the hope of building a better life (I assume, unless he was running away from something) by buying farm land in the remote east of Banks Peninsular, New Zealand. And then proceeding to have 11 more children. Probably not unusual in those days.

What I can't understand though, is why 11 years later, he then moved again to Hautapu in the North Island.
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Sunday 20 November 11 06:52 GMT (UK)
Hello jim,

Thank you for the information about the parish Church Bidford-on-Avon St Laurence - much appreciated.

And Ashwin descendant I have sent you a 'pm' in regard to 'the letter'.

Regards
Kate
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: allanash on Saturday 31 December 11 22:59 GMT (UK)
I am a great grandson of Martin Richard Ashwin. I was under the impression that we were descended from Thomas Ashwin of Tower Hill, Bidford. My records show,Thomas Ashwin a gentleman of considerable inherited means married Hester Manley of Charleeste Manor and Honeybourne Farm Estates. 4 sons and 1 daughter.
Manley at Honeybourne.
Edward at Cook Hill.
William at Willersley,
Thomas at Tower Hill.
Caroline married Robert Fletcher.
Our Edward married Elizabeth Wheeler of Mickleton. had 3 sons and 4 daughters.
Edward, John, Martin Richard (my GGF), Ester, Marian and Sarah. Martin married Emma Copson. My grand father (Martin Edward) was one of the kids and married Alice Allan. I have a Descendancy chart. commencing with William Ashwin 1721.
If it's any use I could email it to you.
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Sunday 01 January 12 10:03 GMT (UK)
Hello allanash,
Welcome to Rootschat - I have had unbelievable information from people on Rooschat - I think it is an amazing site. I hope you will find it as exciting as I have. And what a lovely New Year's present - to receive word from another of Martin Richard's descendants! Again I am really excited about this. I suppose from the fact that that Martin Richard and Emma Copson had eighteen children - there must be many descendants such as us out here in the big world. Esther Alexandra Cunningham Ashwin was my Great Grandmother - a lovely lady I hear through my cousins though I never met her personally.

I would be absolutely delighted to have the descendancy chart dating back to 1721. Thank you for your kind offer. I have found it very difficult to verify Thomas Ashwin's parents and the exact year of his birth and his marriage let alone anything before this.

I see this is your first post - as per the Rootschat regulations after three posts we can talk through Personal Messages and I can then give you my email address.

Thank you sincerely
Regards
whiteKat
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: allanash on Sunday 01 January 12 17:38 GMT (UK)
Good morning whiteKat,
I assume you are a cousin of Adrian. He and I are friends from our motorcycling days. His mother startd me on this family thing, Gave me a bit of info
years ago and I've been working away ever since. I have gathered quite a lot of stuff over the years unfortunately I can't authenticate much of it. You are welcome
to copies of what I have.
Keep up the good work.



Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Sunday 01 January 12 19:00 GMT (UK)
Hello again,
You are absolutely correct about my cousin - isn't that interesting!. He and his brother have been been of great help to me likewise - in putting the family puzzle together - but I still have a way to go yet. With Edward Ashwin's birth I have actually searched parish records in the Warwickshire Records Office - my husband and I were there last year - and all I could find was an Edward Ashwin in 1790 being born to a Thomas Ashwin and Pheobe. This is where my brick wall is - I cannot find an Edward being born to a Thomas Ashwin and Hester.

Do you know where or from whom the information on Edward and Hester came from? It all certainly sounds correct as the name 'Manly or Manely' is found repeatedly in the family as is the name 'Esther and Hester. It is just so frustrating not being able to pin Parish Records to what we believe is our history. You say you have information going back to 1721 - you can go back further than Thomas Ashwin and Hester? That certainly sounds fascinating! If I can be of any help to you in any way on the family I would be more than happy to do so.

Regards
Kate
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: allanash on Monday 02 January 12 07:59 GMT (UK)
My records show 7 sons, 7 daughters. 3 of Martin Edwards sisters came to NZ wih the family. Helen, Marian and Sarah had a school for young ladies called Hagley House, in Christchurch. According to the Sebastopol passenger list they brought 7 children with them. I would be interested to know who the extras were.
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Tuesday 03 January 12 08:26 GMT (UK)
Hi allanash,
Good to hear from you again. Martin and Emma certainly had a lot of children!. I thought there were eighteen but I could be wrong as I can only come up with seventeen currently. The children's names as I understand them to be are:

Helen Ashwin 1856
Marion Emma Ashwin 1858-1876
Martin Edward Ashwin 1859-1902 - your Great Grandfather
Lily Jane Ashwin 1861
Theodore Craven Ashwin 1862
Esther Alexandra Cunningham Ashwin 1864-1956 - my Great Grandmother
Jane Ratcliffe Ashwin 1866
Edith Sarah Packer Ashwin 1866-1958
Charles Avery Ashwin 1868-1952
William Horace Durham Ashwin 1868
Manley John Ashwin 1869-1937
Leonard Thomas Ashwin 1871-1945
Clara Chapman Ashwin 1875-1875
Mabel Ashwin 1876-1940
Jessie Milne Ashwin 1878-1950
Darcy Durham Ashwin 1880-1915
Cecil Stanley Ashwin 1881-1904

Some dates for birth are tight unless there were twins - I am not sure of this! Hope these names are of help to you.

I can now send you a personal message with my email address if you like - now that you have three posts.

I am still very interested in the Descendancy Chart - if you are willing!

Regards
Kate



Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: allanash on Tuesday 03 January 12 08:54 GMT (UK)
Hi Kate,
It's a real mixup isn't it ? My records say 7 sons and 7 daughters. But adding them up there appears to be 7 sons and 8 daughters. I have a copy of the passenger list of the Sabastobol which lists 3 of Martin Richards sisters Helen,Mary and Sarah acompanied them to NZ. They set up a school for young ladies in Christchurch called Hagley House.  I think there may be some confusion and they are lumped in with all the kids. Even so they were obviously profilic breeders. My grandmother (Alice) who married Martin Edward was from a family of 16. Big families were the norm. Yes emails would be good. But there is that much stuff here that post would be better.

Name Allan Ashwin. I would love to hear from you.
Kind regards,
Allan.
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Tuesday 03 January 12 09:53 GMT (UK)
Hello again Allan,

Thank you for your offer - it is much appreciated I will send you my address.

In regard to the Sebastopol passenger list  - I believe Helen Ashwin is Martin's eldest daughter and Marion his second daughter - and yes they set up a school in Hagley Road Christchurch.I think the name 'Mary' actually refers to Marion - I think there has been some mix-up with names there.

And the Sarah Wheeler listed is I understand Sarah Ashwin nee Wheeler's niece. Sarah Ashwin - born 1796 - had a brother who died leaving a son, and a daughter - Sarah. I do not know what happened to the Mother of the said Sarah Wheeler daughter of Sarah Ashwin's brother but my understanding is that Sarah accompanied her Aunt and Cousins to New Zealand on the Sebastopol. I hope that makes sense! I could be wrong but that is how I understand it.

I will send you a PM with my current address. I look forward to talking more soon.
Regards
Kate
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Tuesday 03 January 12 17:29 GMT (UK)
Hello Allan,
Oops I have made a mistake and before you pick up on it I will correct it!I have named Martin's mother as 'Sarah' Ashwin nee Wheeler  - and of course it is not. It is 'Elizabeth'
Ashwin nee Wheeler - I knew that all along I don't know what I was thinking! The only Sarah on the Sebastopol was Sarah Wheeler Elizabeth's niece. I do apologise for the error.

Regards
Kate
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: tombanwell on Thursday 03 May 12 20:31 BST (UK)
Hello Kate and Allan,

I just discovered this site. I am the great grandson of Jane Ratcliffe Ashwin and delighted to find you. I will compare your info with what I already have and get back to you with any questions or additonal information. My mother wrote a short unpublished book on her grandmother Jane.

Best, Tom
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Thursday 03 May 12 21:17 BST (UK)
Hello Tom,
Delighted to make contact. I am eager to learn more of the family. I was just looking at my emails before I leave for a few days to visit my daughter. I will touch base with you when I return Tuesday next week. Very exciting.

Regards
Kate
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: tombanwell on Sunday 06 May 12 18:28 BST (UK)
Hi Kate,

Thanks for replying. My records handed down from my mother show 18 children to Martin and Emma. The names and dates match yours for the most part, however I don't have William Horace Durham at all. Instead I have two you don't have: Sarah Elizabeth b. 1862, and James Ernest Ashwin b. 1872 and died young. The other major difference is I show Theodore Craven Ashwin as being born in 1855, not 1862, which would make him the eldest child. Helen Elizabeth, Sarah Elizabeth, and James Ernest all died young.
(These records are from a photocopy of a paper supposedly written by Martin listing the dates and names of his children, and from a family tree written by Bernard “Barry” Carl Ashwin [1897-1975], son of Manley John, compiled in 1960).

Regarding Hagley House, I have that Martin's spinster sisters Helen (Ellen) and Mary Ann (Marion) came over on the Sebastopol and started the school in Christchurch. My great-grandmother Jane Ratcliff lived with my mother and her parents since before my mother was born, and they were quite close. According to Jane (from my mother's book) both Jane and Esther "Alexandra" (your g grandmother) attended Hagley House as students. Jane returned to Christchurch (from California) in 1900, a widow with two children to take care of her aged aunts, both in their late seventies.

I have copies of certified copies of both Martin’s and Emma’s deaths.

Best, Tom
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: tombanwell on Sunday 06 May 12 22:38 BST (UK)
I've dug into more records on Ashwins. I agree with your belief that Sarah E. Wheeler on the Sebastopol was the niece of Elizaberth Wheeler nee Ashwin.  Sarah Wheeler married Henry Packer, and was the daughter of Samuel Wheeler, brother to Elizabeth Wheeler nee Ashwin.

Are you aware of the legal problems that Martin Richard Ashwin had? And his wife and son Martin Edward?

Attached is a photo of Emma Priscilla Copson Ashwin.
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Thursday 10 May 12 06:07 BST (UK)
Hello Tom,

The photos and information are absolutely wonderful. I will be talking some more.

Regards
Kate
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: semaphore on Monday 13 August 12 12:02 BST (UK)
Hello Kate,
I just stumbled upon your request whilst looking up information on Bretforten Manor for my daughter who is going to a wedding in the village this coming weekend.

I am the granddaughter of Ethel Maud Ashwin whose family moved to South Australia where I was born. I have your Edward on my very extensive family tree.He was indeed born in 1790 and died in 1832. He lived at Cook Hill and had a son Martin. I am delighted to learn more about this branch of the family. Edward was one of 10 children. Manley1783-1863 marr Susannah George, (their son Manley had 6 children),Phoebe chr. 1786 marr Richard Fletcher, Thomas b.1788,died 1789, your Edward who died of black jaundice, John 1792-1797,Mary b 1795 marr Albert Robins Fletcher, Thomas c1798-1850 from Tower Hill,marr Anne Horton and had 7 children, William c 1801-1843 from Willersley,drowned in the Avon River, Charles died 1805, another Chatles born 1807.

Edward was the son of Thomas Ashwin who married Phoebe Cormel in 1783. He had a sister, Eleanor who died at birth or soon after in 1748 and a brother Manley who died in 1749.

Thomas was the son of Manley Ashwin born 1719. He married Mary Godfrey in 1746. He had 5 brothers and sisters. Thomas, baptised 1727 who married Anne ?,Elizabeth c. 1721, Esther c. 1723, William c. 1726 died 1727, and Richard.

Manley was the son of Thomas Ashwin of Tower Hill, Bidford. He was baptised in 1688 and married  Hester Manley of Crowle, Worc. in 1719.Hester was the daughter of John (Job) Manley. Thomas had 5 siblings. Mary died 1690, Elizabeth born 1692 marr Robert Pickering, John 1695-1743 marr Martha,William c. 1647 d. 1748 marr Sarah Moore, Henry c. 1700 d. 1746 marr Mary. In have a whole list of John's and Henry's children.

Thomas was the son of Edward William Ashwin, yeoman who died November2, 1721. He was married to Elizabeth who died 1723.
He seems to have been the son of an earlier Edward married to a Barbara. Somewhere it has been found that this Edward was granted an estate at Cow Honeybourne by Members of the Inner Temple in 1593.

Obviously I have not done any of this research. It all comes from a tree handed down to me, and from the tree of a certain Linda whose husband is the great grandson of Martin Richard Ashwin upon whom I stumbled whilst looking for a B and B on the English coast!!

I am a bit busy with my elder daughter's wedding at the moment but I have a lot of information which all needs to be coordinated as obviously there is an error on my tree. You mentioned you were in Australia. We could possibly catch up there over the Christmas period.I live in France.

Susan

Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Tuesday 14 August 12 07:52 BST (UK)
Hello semaphore,
Welcome to Roostchat - it is a wonderful site! I have had so many finds of great value to my research on this site and talked to many people - a lot of whom are distantly related - I find it all so very exciting.

I too am the the GG Granddaughter of Martin Richard Ashwin and I wanted to say thank you for your contact for now and to say I am most interested in what you say. There is so very much here to digest and to work through and I will need time in which to do so. So much correlates with what I have found. I look forward to talking more to you too  - but do understand you are very busy at the moment with the wedding and all. So when you are ready I will be delighted, and look forward to talking some more on our shared ancestors.

And when you have time - can you explain where Ethel Maud Ashwin fits into the family tree - I don't think I know her?

Regards
Kate
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: semaphore on Tuesday 14 August 12 13:29 BST (UK)
It's like a disease isn't it! Despite not having the time at all, I simply had to work out the link, and I think it is this.. I have a huge quantity of information, which, as I said, really needs to be sifted through. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of any of it because I have done no research at all, but it is so detailed that for the most part, I am assuming it is correct, and some things crop up from different sources so either it's correct or just repeated family lagend!
In 1719 Thomas Ashwin of Tower Hill, Bidford married Hester Manley of Crowle, Worc.
Their fist son, Manley, born the year of their mariage, married Mary Godfrey or Godfree in 1746. Their first son, Thomas married Phoebe Cormel in 1783 and she gave birth to 10 children of which your Edward is one.
However Thomas Ashwin and Hester Manley had 6 children. Their second son Thomas, baptised 1727, married Anne Smith of Littleton. They had 5 children. The eldest son, Thomas, born 1753 married Mary Price. He was a Magistrate and was killed in the Priestley riots in Birmingham on August 12, 1791.
Thomas and Mary had 8 children. I have details on all of them, but I am descended from their second son, Thomas Price born January 22, 1777, died blind at the age of 66 in Prestbury where he lived with two maiden sisters,Eleanor and Elizabeth. In 1804 he had married Grace, daughter of William and Sarah Jenkin of Truro. They were a Quaker family. Thomas and Grace had 7 children.
Their third child, Alfred Jenkin, born Cheltenham April 12, 1814 was an accountant. His first marriage to someone as yet unknown, produced two children, Edward Marston and Alfred Gordon. It may well have been that his first wife was a Marston because this name enters the family for the first time here. Alfred Gordon was born in Cornwall in 1843 and drowned off Cape Horn in his early 20's. I am descended from Edward Marston. Incidentally Alfred Jenkin went on to marry a second time with Susan Johnson Brick and had a whole lot more children, of which the eldest has left handwritten books about his experiences exploring the centre of Australia.
Anyway, Edward Marston,born 1845 in Cornwall went to Australia at the age of 3, presumably with his father, but this has never been researched I think. He married Susannah Tapley in 1873. The Tapleys were a well known Adelaide family after whom Tapley's Hill is named. Edward Marston bought land on the seafont at the Semaphore, then very fashionable,  in 1878 and in 1884 he built a large house. He and Susannah had 4 children of which my grandmother, Ethel Maud, born 1874 was the eldest. Milford born 1876 dropped dead in the street leaving his wife Nell with 2 sons. I do not know them at all. Arthur Malcolm was born in 1778 and married Mary MacDiarmid. They had two daughters, Mary and Margaret, both of whom married and had children, all of whom still live in Adelaide to my knowledge. I have been living in France for 33 years but I have seen them occasionally. Ethel Maud married the Reverend Wilfrid Walmsley Nicholson, whom she happened to meet in Adelaide,in London, and they moved to Thorneyburn in the very north of England where my father, Bryan Walmsley was born. Their second son, Edward Marston Ashwin was born in Askam Richard, where their father died at the age of 56, leaving Ethel with 2 boys 7 and 12. She decided to return to Adelaide but contracted tuberculosis on the boat and died 6 years later,also at the age of 56. Edward married and had 3 daughters, all of whom have married and had children, but he also died at the age of 56. When my father turned 56 he had a party, although he did not know his brother's fate at that stage!! I see all Edward's children and the eldest is coming to my  daughter's wedding. I married a Dutchman and came to France. Sadly I was widowed at the same age as Ethel, but instead of having 2 sons, I have 2 daughters, although they were the same age as Ethel's sons when their father died.
I hope you can wade your way through this! As I said, I have masses and masses of stuff but not very close to either of us, but my goodness, there are a lot of Ashwins around the world!
Susan
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Wednesday 15 August 12 09:21 BST (UK)
Hello Susan,
How wonderful your information has been! I cannot believe how helpful it has been in sorting my head around all the Ashwins with the same names - I am so, so grateful. I believe now I have placed most in their correct generations with their correct parents - but my goodness I have spent all afternoon writing them down and sorting through them with the help of FamilySearch for dates etc.  - but I do so enjoy doing it. Thank you, thank you, thank you as now I can see the connections between many of them. The Ashwins loved repeating names down the generations - but what has been most helpful has been their use of the mother's maiden name as a second name. Phew - I think I need a drink!

I have also worked out our relationship with each other - if my calculations are correct. We share the same 6 x Grandfather Thomas Ashwin who married Hester Manley in 1719. Their children our 5 x Grandfathers were brothers - and I have gleaned this all from your information. Mine Manley Ashwin born 1719 and yours Thomas Ashwin born 1727- is that correct?

And yes I thoroughly agree with you - Family History certainly grabs hold of you with fervour filling your head and eating your time but I must say I get great satisfaction from the research and finding out new and exciting things. And having said that I was surprised and thoroughly delighted to receive your extensive message particularly as you have your daughter's wedding coming up at the weekend. I hope you have a wonderful day. I can truly relate to it all as we had one of our daughter's wedding in December last year and we had a wonderful time. Am I correct in believing the wedding is at Bretfortin? A beautiful place. A couple of years ago when my husband and I were in England we visited Bretfortin and Bretfortin Manor as the Manor used to be an Ashwin family home - a lovely place!

Thank you also for explaining your side of the family - it sounds most interesting especially your ancestor exploring Australia and and poor Thomas Ashwin b. 1753 being killed in the Priestley riots in Birmingham - I knew nothing of those prior to this! Family history certainly increases one's knowledge of history! I followed your family down the line from Thomas marrying Mary Price in 1774 and then down the line to Ethel Maud. I just loved reading it all and making the connections.

On my side my GGG Grandfather Edward Ashwin b. 1790, married Elizabeth Wheeler in 1814 and died in 1832 as you are aware. His son - my GG Grandfather - Martin Richard Ashwin was just a baby being born in 1831 when his father died. Martin Richard married Emma Priscilla Copson in 1855 and then in 1863 they emigrated to New Zealand with their then children, his mother and two of his maiden sisters. My G Grandmother Esther Alexandra Cunningham Ashwin was born in NZ a year after their arrival. She married Frederick Gover a School Master and had 4 children of whom my Grandmother was one - Daisy Gover. Daisy married her second cousin Alfred Adrian Gover who was a Superintendent of Police in Madras India - they had 3 sons - my father Alfred Terence being the second son. Unfortunately Alfred Adrian died of appendicitis in Madras in 1914 when my father was just 2 years old and his younger brother was one - so sad! Daisy returned to New Zealand and my father then grew up in New Zealand until coming to Australia in 1937 when he married my mother in 1938. My husband was born in Scotland but grew up in Australia and we have now been married for 40 years!

Your masses of information sounds very inviting  - even if not closely related. You mentioned maybe meeting at Christmas - are you coming to Australia at Christmas - it would be great to meet?

It has been wonderful talking. Have a wonderful wedding. Will talk again soon.

Regards
Kate

Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: semaphore on Wednesday 15 August 12 13:07 BST (UK)
Hello again!

I am so pleased I have helped you in your research and that you are excited by the additional information. My cousin, Janet, who has the same relationship to Ethel as I, has done a lot of research on our paternal grandfather's family, but I know she'll be terribly excited to hear about our "connection".

No, my younger daughter is ànly going to a friend's wedding in Bretforten this weekend. My own daughter is being married in Königssee in Bavaria because she has been living in Munich for the last 6 years. Her husband is French, not German, and he is already back here in Paris, and so she is seeking a job here in order that they should live together! Yes, sometimes very difficult for me, but my family is dreadfully "international".

My daughter and her husband are spending their honeymoon in Australia because, although she has been every year, and also for her work, her husband has never been, and is anxious to discover her "other" country. I will be in Adelaide predominantly,  and in Sydney for New Year. I do not know how that would work for you.

You are correct in your deductions about our relationship. However "my" Thomas is on the tree as the son after Manley and an 8 year difference just does not seem logical does it? This requires more time, which I just don't have at the moment.

Anyway, we're off to a good if exhausting start.

Best wishes,

Susan
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: zepher on Monday 27 August 12 03:56 BST (UK)
Hi, Martin Richard Ashwin is also my GGrandfather. I believe he was bankrupted in 1862 and that may have lead to them coming out to NZ.  I have a son Theodore Craven Ashwin born 1855, and a Craven Ashwin shows on the shipping list when they came out to NZ in 1863.  MRA was bankrupted in 1867 and spent 12 months in prison.  In 1879 he bought a Mill in Decanter Bay.
Extract from Decanter Bay from 'Banks Peninsula - People and Places by Ian Menzies - Canterbury Museum
"When the cream of the timber had been cut the mill was sold to M.R.Ashwin and operated further up the valley on land owned by the estate of James Cooke. The nine-roomed house and the mill were destroyed by fire in 1879 in suspicious circumstance. Mrs Ashwin and her son were charged with arson and acquitted in June that year for want of conclusive evidence". I understand the son in question was Martin.
MRA became bankrupt again in 1870. Some time around 1886 they moved to Wairoa in the North Island where his wife Emma Ashwin was a storekeeper and she was bankrupted in 1888. Records show MRA residing in Wellington in 1890 and then Wanganui in 1894 and we know MRA was buried in Hautapu cemetery in Cambridge.
The following is the inscription on the Ashwin headstone
In loving memory of
Martin R. Ashwin
died 28th Feb 1901
aged 69 years
also
Martin E. Ashwin
died 28th Nov 1902
aged 43 years
also Cecil Stanley Ashwin
died 30 April 1904
aged 22 years
also
Emma Priscilla Ashwin
died 2nd May 1916
aged 80 years
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Tuesday 28 August 12 00:46 BST (UK)
Hello Zepher,
How absolutely wonderful! Thank you so very much for the details and photo of the gravestone identifying where Martin, Edward, Cecil and Emma are buried in Hautapu Cemetery and the story relating to their history. I am most appreciative of all the information. Thank you so very much - I am delighted. I will have to visit the cemetery when I travel to New Zealand - and say hello to the ancestors! Martin and Emma had such a huge family they must have descendants all over the place. As you have read no doubt, I am descended from Martin and Emma through Esther Alexandra Cunningham Ashwin - their first born child upon arriving in New Zealand.

I had wondered at the reason Martin and family went to NZ in 1863 - it had been hinted to me by another that it was through bankruptcy so it appears to be a so! Poor Martin Richard - I don't know whether 'poor' is the right word - seemed to have many issues through his adult life, but I suppose life could be really hard in those days. Thank you for the information on his 'issues' I have read some amazing details of his problems through the Trove newspapers - the detail in these is amazing - you feel you can actually picture what actually took place.

I hadn't known until your post where MRA and EMA were buried - only their death dates - and seeing the headstone has just added so much more to their story. I thank you.

Regards
Kate
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: macash on Sunday 16 September 12 05:56 BST (UK)
Hello all Ashwin descendants,
I have just found Rootschat and have had a great time reading about the Ashwins.
I was very intrigued to find that my information on the early history is the same as Susan's.
Actually, my family is descended from Alfred Jenkin Ashwin's second marriage to Susannah Birch, in Adelaide.
I would be very interested to hear more about this family and maybe I can add some extra details.
Regards,
Beth
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: semaphore on Sunday 16 September 12 11:10 BST (UK)
Hello  Beth,

This site is amazing isn't it? Delighted you have discovered it too and very interested to hear you also are a descendant of Alfred Jenkin Ashwin. On my tree it is noted he remarried a Susannah Johnson ? Brick from Maidstone in Kent. I see her name was actually Birch! One of the children from this marriage was Arthur and I have two large handwritten notebooks in which he has written about his experiences in outback Australia. After him on my tree, I have Harry, who apparently died, then Ada or Alice, Wilmott,Tom and Frank, but I have absolutely no dates for any of these, no evidence that the names are correct or that they  even existed. My side of the family, as far as I know, never met them. All the issue of my great grandfather, who was Alfred Jenkin's second son by his first marriage, are in Adelaide, except that I have been in France for the last 33 years. I can tell you about the various children etc. From which of Alfred's second batch of children are you descended?

Look forward to hearing more and shall tell my cousin about you.

Susan   
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: macash on Sunday 16 September 12 12:40 BST (UK)
Hello Susan,
I was thrilled to receive your reply tonight. I thought you might be still involved with your daughter's wedding.
I have accurate dates etc. for AJA's 2nd. family. There were 8 more kids, but sadly only 3 survived. You are correct about Arthur who was the first born,, 1850, of the 2nd family. The surviving girl was born 1861 and my g.grandfather was Frank Yardington b.1865, his father died 1867. It must have been a terrible time for Susannah. They ended up in Ballarat, and Frank went to Horsham in Victoria, where he lived for the rest of his life. Are the diaries of Arthur which you have, original copies? Did you know there is a published book of his diaries which includes details of his early life in Adelaide and also some details of Edward Marsden Ashwin?
Beth
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: semaphore on Sunday 16 September 12 13:16 BST (UK)
Hello Beth, Goodness me! Speaking to a hitherto unknown relative twice in a day is very novel to say the least. I am gathering from the time difference that you must be in Australia.

Do I dare say that in view of his 8 further children and the 18 that were born to the family in NZ, these Ashwin men were pretty....active!

I was in Ballarat a couple of years ago for the first time but had no idea I might have any ties with the place.You do not say at all where you are now.

Yes, my simple exercise books are handwritten originals. At least, I imagine it is he who wrote them. I am amazed and heartened to learn that there exist published copies of his writing and am dying to see them.My first cousin on my mother's side, who came for my daughter's wedding and will be with me from Wednesday onwards, has a first cousin on her paternal side who was very interested when I mentioned these "diaries" because she is a prominent librarian who publishes early "Australiana". I will have to tell her she's too late! Of course they have nothing at all to do with the Ashwins. Fascinating!

We must update the family tree, or rather the version I have of it.

Susan

Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: Tiki1962 on Monday 17 September 12 06:56 BST (UK)
How lucky are you! So many people interested in the family history and the ability to share notes.  :)
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: macash on Monday 17 September 12 12:19 BST (UK)
Hi Susan,                                                                                                                                               
 I’m back again…..I hope I don’t confuse you with all the questions, new info. etc!!!! however it’s so exciting to have found some new cousins and be able to compare family stories.       
 Yes, you are right, I am in Australia. I was in Ballarat last November and found the grave of Alfred & Susannah Ashwin. There is no plaque tho’ so I had thought I might get one. They deserve to be acknowledged I think.                                                                                                                   
 My Mum used to correspond with Arthur’s grand- daughter, Alice, but she died and we’ve lost touch with the family. Arthur’s son Alf., (Alice’s father), lived with my g grandfather Frank Yardington’s family in Horsham for several years, until Frank took him back to his father in West. Aust.  Did you know that Alf’s wife was French? I think he met her during WW1. Arthur’s book is called ‘Grass to Gold’. Part of the book is about how he was in the party to take the first mob of cattle overland from South Aust. to Darwin. There is a main  street in Alice Springs named after him.                                                                                         
 Do you have any photos of any of our ancestors? There are lots of references to your Edward Marsten, and his father Alfred Jenkin in the Adelaide papers, which are online. Also references to Charles Ashwin, Alfred Jenkin’s brother who lived in Adelaide too.               
 Alfred’s two little boys, Edward (4y.o.) & Alfred (6y.o.), came out to Adelaide on a different ship from their father, and arrived just before their father married Susannah Birch in 1950.
 Hope all this is not too confusing!!                                                                                                  Beth                                                                                                                                                         
 By the way, I’m so pleased Kate wanted to find out about Edward Ashwin!!
                                                         
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: semaphore on Monday 17 September 12 15:17 BST (UK)
I have just succeeded in ordering on line Arthur's book, which I discovered at the same time was called 'Gold to Grass'. I am so excited! I wanted to buy two copies so I could give one to my first cousin who has invited us for Christmas dinner. At the same time I discovered one could order a copy of an interview with Robin Ashwin who is my father's godson and who has had a distinguished diplomatic career. I believe he is back in Adelaide and in view of the fact that he's is a good deal older than I, I really must try to contact him on this visit.He is the descendant of Charles Ashwin, Alfred's brother whom you mention.Charles Francis Godrey was born in 1816. He married Caroline Amelia, daughter of Joseph Reece of Essex and had 3 children: 1)Caroline Grace 2) Godfrey Napier, married Mabel Rosa Gibson and had a son Edward Manley 3) Charles Stephenson married Eliza Sarah Joy ? and had a son Eric Charles Godfrey who went back to signing his name Ashewynne. He had a son Eric Charles Francis Godfrey born 19 October 1890. He married Mary de Quetteville (there is a de Quetteville terrace in Adelade), daughter of Rowland Barbeuson Robin (hence the name Robin). They had two sons, Philip Manley born 5 September 1929, married Patricia Mary Ann Russell and had a number of children, and Charles Robin who married OchChe of Seoul and had a son and a daughter.
Alfred Jenkin and Charles Francis Godfrey had 5 brothers and sisters. George Thomas, born 1811, Charlotte Grace born 1809 were both older, and then after came Caroline born 22 January 1818, died at Cheltenham unmarried, Fanny Ellen Eliza born 21 August 1021, died 22 May 1834 and William Manley born 11 February 1825 lived with his aunts in Cheltenham and all trace of him was lost.
Indeed Alfred and Susannah's grave must have a plaque. Tell me how you fare with that. My grandmother, Ethel Maud, is in the Mitcham cemetery which was fairly newly opened when she died and she is surrounded by her old Adelaide friends.The rest of the Ashwins are in the West Terrace cemetery which is close to the centre of the city, being one of the first ones built. Ethel was exceptionally beautiful and in fact my father met a man who said she was considered the most beautiful girl in Adelaide. She was very vain and had a high opinion of herself I have heard. She was much photographed in wonderful dresses but I need some technological help to get these onto the site to show you! She had a very active social life I gather, balls, parties non stop and she also won medals for lifesaving, being a great swimmer, a skill my father inherited,  but sadly not I! It may have had something to do with the fact that her father had built his house right on the seafront. She also spent a lot of time in India, especially when her brother, Malcolm was there, and she was an avid traveller, something my cousin Janet and I have inherited. It must have been a very great change for her to find herself a vicar's wife deep in the Enhlish countryside at the rather isolated parish of Thorneyburn, far from the sea and within sight of Hadrien's wall.
You have told me so many things! I had no idea there was a street named after Arthur in Alice Springs. I have been there a couple of times and my cousin Janet very often. What is the street called exactly...my daughter will have a look at Christmas when she is there.
Tell me what else you would like to know.
Best wishes, Susan
 
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: macash on Tuesday 18 September 12 12:57 BST (UK)

                                                                                   
 Hi Susan,
Great to receive your info. this a.m. We have similar info. to you, but not so much detail with dates etc. and we don’t have spouse names. I wonder who compiled the original chart!!
   
 I made a couple of errors with Arthur’s book as I confused the title, and also that he took sheep not cattle to Darwin. The street in A. Springs is just called ‘Ashwin street’ and is off ‘Milner road’. Ralph Milner was the leader of the expedition until he was killed by ‘blacks’…then Arthur became 2nd.in charge. However, you will read all this when you get the book. I think the first 28 pages are the most interesting as far as family history info. is concerned. You will find that he writes phonetically, probably because he wasn’t a very keen scholar I think. There is a photo of Arthur, his father Alf. Jenkin and his son Alf. Some of the facts included by the editor are incorrect, e.g. genealogy chart, but I can advise you on these when you have the book. There are some other clarifications with name, dates etc. that my mother has told me also.                                                                                         

  You have a question mark with the wife of Charles Stephenson Ashwin, i.e. Sarah Eliza Joy ? When I saw the notice of their marriage, it shows her surname as being ’Joy’, and they were married in Coburg, Melbourne in 1889. I found this info. at  www.trove.nla.gov.au There are lots of references to Ashwins in the Adelaide papers as well as the ‘Argus’ from Melbourne.       

Beth



Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Wednesday 19 September 12 00:21 BST (UK)
Hello Beth and Susan,
I am really enjoying your conversation. I hadn't realised that the Ashwins had been so prominent in South Australia and had achieved so very much. Arthur's book 'Gold to Grass' sounds most interesting and well worth a read. My branch of Ashwins emigrated to new Zealand in 1863 as I have mentioned previously - and started quite a little population of their own by having 18 children. The Ashwins on the whole have done quite a bit for this southern hemisphere of ours. As Susan and I have mentioned we share the same 5xGGrandfather -I guess I have a similar connection way back with you as well. Fascinating I think

Glad you two have met - it is so very exciting to find connections - I just love this site.

Hope your daughter's wedding went well Susan.

Regards
Kate
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: Emhab on Saturday 20 October 12 16:24 BST (UK)
Hello to all the descendants using these pages to learn about our Ashwin ancestors, and what they got up to. Our line of descent is through Martin Richard and Emma Priscilla's son D'arcy Durham Ashwin, who married Grannie Eva Tasmania Lindberg. They had 3 children, Ida, Connie and Carl Martin, before D'arcy died when 35yrs old.
Carl , who was a builder in Auckland, was my husband's father. My husband died in 1981.
I'm the genealogist in the family, and often used to quiz Carl about the Ashwin family history and he told me that it had been passed down through the family that the Ashwins were somehow linked to a Royal Court (possibly Swedish) away back in the mists of time. I have never been able to find any link, and so was fascinated to read about the 7th Century King Aescwine of Wessex and Bretfortin on these pages.....
Carl's family didn't seem to visit Ashwin cousins, apart from his sister's families, so we were never aware of the huge family he was a part of.
It is great to know that there are relatives in Australia, (we are in WA) as well as NZ. I am doing the family tree for my daughter & grandkids.
Kind regards to all
Marie
 
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Monday 22 October 12 23:56 BST (UK)
Hello Emhab,
Welcome to Rootschat - I see this is your first post! I have found this site simply amazing. I too like you have learned a great deal about the Ashwins from this site alone. Like you also I am compiling the family tree for my children and grandchildren.

My Ashwin line descends through Esther Alexandra Cunningingham Ashwin born 1864 - Martin and Emma's first child born after their arrival in NZ. Unfortunately as I grew up in Sydney I never got to meet Esther Alexandra and I only met my grandmother - Esther's daughter Daisy Gover  - twice before she died. Hence I have really no first hand knowledge of family history. My father - Daisy's son - died when I was only twelve so I was too young then to think much about family history. My understanding however has been greatly helped by my two first cousins who live in NZ and Rootschat.

The Martin/Emma Ashwin family now is certainly very widespread - particularly with them having 18 children. I still live in NSW with my husband.

I just love the name of your husband's Grandmother  - Grannie Eva Tasmania -it  must have had some significance to her family!

Lovely to make contact with you - and does everything here on this site correlate with what you know?

Regards
Kate
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: Emhab on Friday 26 October 12 13:00 BST (UK)
Hi Kate
 I did a bit of research while at work on Monday (I work at the WA Genealogical Society Library each Monday helping beginners learn the ropes to researching their families) and found your Gt Grandmother's birth entry from the newspaper published on the Akaroa Peninsula/Lyttleton area. It was quaintly worded as follows & appeared on 30th April 1864. " Ashwin - April 29th at Heathfield Cottage, Ferry Road, the wife of M.R. Ashwin, of a daughter." Yet when I checked the BDMs, & printed off a list of all the Ashwin births since 1863, her birth did not appear!!!! I will do more checking in case it was registered under another name - like Cunningham. Some strange things happened with registrations back then.
Another quaint entry was for Elizabeth Ashwin (nee Wheeler's) death, which appeared on 23rd August 1880 as follows: " Ashwin - At Hagley House, Christchurch, on Sunday 22nd August, Elizabeth, relict of Edwin Ashwin, of Cookhill House, Gloucestershire. Aged 84yrs."
The word "relict" is an archaic word for a widow. I also found the deaths of Marion & Helen if you would like them, plus the detail of why Leonard Ashwin was jailed for manslaughter. If you would like that, I will type it out in another message. I found heaps more, but not enought time to detail it all now. Certainly a fascinating family to research - their story would make a good movie!!!

Will talk again soon
Kind regards
Marie
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Friday 26 October 12 14:15 BST (UK)
Hi Marie,
It is midnight here and I thought I would check my emails before going off to bed. Lovely to hear from you and all your information on the Ashwins - and I am very interested.  I am however away in Sydney tomorrow so just wanted to let you know I will reply in more detail on Sunday.

Kind regards
Kate
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: Emhab on Saturday 27 October 12 15:44 BST (UK)
Hi Kate
Had 6 for dinner tonight, so it's late & I'll get right to it, as I have visitors tomorrow. Hope Sydney goes well for you.
Firstly the 2 deaths: Ashwin - On 5th March 1903 at Armagh St West, Helen Ashwin in her 82nd Year.
Deaths dated 10th Aug 1910. - Ashwin - on 5th instance, at her residence. Stoneyhurst St, St Albans, Marian Ashwin, aged 87yrs. Private interment.
Another birth:- Ashwin - On 21st April 1869 at the Limes, to wife of Mr R Ashwin, a son. (Manley John)
Then, under the title of "MANSLAUGHTER" in large letters, this story was printed on 4th Sep 1906.
" Ten Years Imprisonment." Wanganui, September 3rd.
"At the Supreme Court this morning, Leonard Ashwin who was found guilty of manslaughter in connection with the death of a boarder staying at the boarding house run by him, and which he set on fire, was sentenced by the Chief Justice to ten years hard labour. The charge or arson against him was held over." 
Sounds as if commiting arson may have run in the family a bit as his mother & brother were put through the courts on arson charges in 1879. I have that article too - quite a lengthy one - and it makes very interesting reading. Actually, the early family spent quite a bit of their time in court over various things - often unpaid debts. Mind you, with all those children to raise money must have been extremely tight for Martin & Emma.
It is getting late now, so I am off to bed.
Kind regards
Marie
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Wednesday 31 October 12 00:27 GMT (UK)
Hello Marie,
Goodness it is now Wednesday and I said I would reply Sunday. However I have had, unexpectedly some very busy days since then and haven't been able to reply - and I am going out again now 11.30 am today. This evening I will have time to give proper thought to your post - again I was delighted with your post. Thank you - I haven't forgotten.
Regards
Kate
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Wednesday 31 October 12 06:51 GMT (UK)
Hello Marie,
Home again and here I am. On your instigation I too found Esther Alexandra's birth notice in an old paper -  thank you sincerely - previously I have had no birth date for her only the year - so I was greatly pleased. And like you I could find no birth registration either for her!

My husband like you works in our local Gosford family History Society - you give wonderful contribution. Genealogy gets into one's blood somehow. Both my husband and I are very avid researchers of our ancestors - it is amazing what one can find find! We spent time in England recently and made pilgrim to many of the areas our ancestors trod and said hello to others under the ground. There is a certain satisfaction in finding ancestors gravestones - there is a sense of belonging! We also visited many Record Offices - they are amazing places!

I do have a lot of the information you mention  - I have scoured Paper's Past and come up with some amazing things on the Ashwin family - including the manslaughter charges concerning Leonard Ashwin and the burning down of the boarding house he owned.

I have also discovered much on Martin Richard, Emma and Edward Martin and their troubles involving suspected arson, and much on bankruptcy. I think Martin Richard and Emma Priscilla did it tough but I wonder at the choices they made sometimes - however times must have been tough in those days - and one should not judge I suppose.

I am not sure however if I have information on the deaths of Marion and Helen - Martin's sisters-  so would be very grateful for that information. The Ashwins seemed to have been endowed with strong genes because the majority of them lived to a ripe old age.

Now if there is anything I can help you with in regard to the Ashwins or Wheelers, and indeed the Copsons -I would be more than happy to help. I have some information on them. Have you been able to go very far back with any of the  families?

It is lovely talking to you.

Kind regards
kate
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: Emhab on Wednesday 31 October 12 14:15 GMT (UK)
Hi Kate,
I know what you mean about busy days - was flat out at work on Monday & never got to do a thing for my own research, but have started adding data I've downloaded earlier off sites at work to my MBK family tree, and noted that Charles Avery Ashwin had two wives. First was Ella Clifton Dunne, who he wed in 1903. They had 3 children, Joseph Avery 1904, Effie Clarice 1906, and Marjorie Ola 1909, taking us up to the cut off date for searching births. Ella died in 1918, aged 36yrs. Charles Svery remarried in 1920 to Linda Geraldine Wright.
Leonard Thomas Ashwin had married Emma Muir in 1893, and probably had a family by the time he was jailed in 1906, although I cannot see registrations for children for them on my list. One wonders how Emma would have coped, as there were no social security benefits of any description back then.

I would love any info you can give me on the Copsons, Wheelers etc. I do have some, but not a lot, so anything I can add will be most welcome. Do you know if anyone has old photos of any of the family who came to NZ?? Carl had nothing, as his Dad died so young that nothing much was passed down.
You commented on Grannie Eva Tasmania Lindberg's name - yes, it is a strange one isn't it. And yes, it was either Grannie or her Mum who was born in Hobart, hence the Tasmania link, though they went to Fiji & owned the first white man's store (according to Carl) before finally settling in NZ where Grannie married D'arcy Durham Ashwin  in 1905.
Am running out of room here, so will sign off till next time
Kind regards
Marie
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: Emhab on Friday 02 November 12 12:35 GMT (UK)
Hi Kate
I meant to say in my last note that what I wrote in the previous note about Marion & Helen's deaths was all there was on them - very brief notices, with no mention of who put the notice in the paper, or any family members - quite unusual.
Here are a few more Ashwin marriages & children born before 1912 that you may not have.

Martin Edward Ashwin m Alice Allan in 1892, and there are only two registered births before he died in 1902, Daisy Ashwin born 1897 and Allan Ashwin born 1899. Allan went on to marry Hazel Robina Mary Anderson in 1928.

Manley John Ashwin married Clara Elizabeth Foy in 1894, and their children in no particular order are: Rita Lois born 1907, Bernard Carl born 1896, Iris Hazel born 1900, Eric Kenneth Manley born 1895, Noel Martin born 1904,Doris Ida born 1902, Raymond nelson born 1897 & Edna Mavis born 1909.Bernard Carl went on to marry Rachel Robinson Turnbull CKA Bennett in 1926.

Henry Duncan Ashwin married Elizabeth Grace Grant in 1906 & their children are Elsie Vera born 1906 & Edgar William born 1908.

Theodore Craven Ashwin married Robina Campbell Miles in 1876 & their children are Craven Campbell born 1877 ( Robina is known as Minnie), Catherine Mary born 1879 & Norman born 1881. The family then vanish no deaths for either parent - must have moved/emigrated somewhere...

Must away - my favourite TV program is starting... talk soon
Marie
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Friday 09 November 12 21:35 GMT (UK)
Hello Marie,

Sorry to take so long in getting back to you. we have had an extremely busy week and currently over this weekend my daughter and son in law are staying. So Monday looks good for replying to you properly.

Again thank you so much for your additional information.

Do you know much at all about the Wheelers so I know what information may be helpful?

Kind regards
Kate
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: Emhab on Saturday 10 November 12 08:37 GMT (UK)
Hi Kate
Like you, we've had visitors for 2 days - so limited research this week. The William Horace Durham Ashwin many claim as part of Martin & Emma's family is definitely NOT their son. He was born in 1868 to Elizabeth & William Charles Durham Ashwin, reg: 1868/13408. William Charles Durham Ashwin was born in J-S 1/4 1840 in Evesham,Worcestershire so could well be a relative somewhere along the line. Durham seems to have been a popular second name in many branches of the Ashwin family back then.

The child many seem to leave off the tree who IS Martin & Emmas son is James Ernest who was born in 1873 Reg: 1873/17554. He died in 1875 aged 3yrs. Reg: 1875/459.
People seem to have Lily on their tree as Lily Jane, but her birth (V6d p18) & marriage((1886/563)have her registered as Lily Fiddian Ashwin.

I've noticed comments about how few Ashwin names there are in NZ phone books etc. Not surprising when one takes into account that in Martin & Emmas big family, only 7of them  were sons, and 3 of those either died young (2), or had no children ( Leonard Thomas). Of the 4 who did marry, Theodore Craven had 5 sons from 2 marriages, 1 of the 2 boys from his NZ marriage dying young. Then he died at 39yrs in 1893 in South Australia leaving a wife & 3 sons there, one of whom later married in NZ!!  Manley John 's marriage produced 4 sons, 1 dying young, and at least one other ending up in Qld. Charles Avery had 1 son who died when 45yrs old, and Darcy Durham had 1 son, and that's it.  So in one generation, the family was reduced down to six grandsons who could carry on the family name.  Of the 7 sons in Martin & Emmas family Theodore Craven, Martin Edward,Darcy Durham, James Ernest & Cecil Stanley all died young, the oldest being Martin Edward at 43yrs, while the girls seemed to mostly live to a ripe old age!!  Strange what genetics can show up.

There is mention of 3 of Martin & Emmas children dying young - James Ernest, and Clara Chapmen were 2 and Marian Emma died at 18yrs. Did Martin mention in his letters which children the 3 were??

Have had a bit of luck filling in the gap on my tree around Jane Ratcliff's details. She married William Stuart Kearne ( Born in England) and had 2 children, Florence Effie, born 12th Oct 1886, and John Stuart born 28th Sep 1888, both born at Riverside, California. Jane is a widow by the 1900 census. In all later census records, Jane is living with her daughter and her family, though when John Stuart was drafted for military service, he was partially supporting Jane from his earnings as a bookkeeper. Jane died at Riverside California  in 1956.

Have not had time to do much more - oh yes - my knowledge of the Wheeler family apart from Elizabeth & her parents being Richard & Sarah?  is nil.

Is what I am putting on here any use to you?? Please let me know if it is data you already have, as you are an old hand with the Ashwins while I have been covering all 8 families in my late husband's pedigree chart, and am only starting to really focus on one family at a time.

Hope you have a great weekend with your family
Kind regards
Marie
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: Emhab on Tuesday 13 November 12 13:55 GMT (UK)
Hi Kate
I have answered one of my own questions - Sarah Elizabeth was the other child of Martin & Emma who died young. She died in the same 1/4 of 1862 that she was born in.

Also found a bit more about Jane Ratcliffe Ashwin. She did return to NZ after she married - twice. I have found shipping details of her 2 voyages from NZ back to USA. The first was with the 2 children in 1903 on board the Ventura, and the second trip was in 1926 when she was 60yrs old. Evidently both ships returned to the USA via Honolulu, hence the records showing up.
Her husband William Stuart Kearne was actually born in Oakland, Adelaide, South Australia, in 1855, but by 1861 he was in England with relatives, and in 1871 at boarding school in Kent - hence the assumption he was English as shown on some of his records.

The one Ashwin child I am having trouble finding records for after the family emigrated to NZ is their 2nd child Helen - do you have any data on her at all??

Talk soon
Kind regards
Marie

Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: zepher on Friday 11 January 13 07:31 GMT (UK)
Hi,
I have a little more information on Helen Ashwin, she was also known as Ellen and quite prominent in Christchurch with her school for young ladies. 
Miss Ellen Ashwin opened a private school called Hagley House at the cnr of Armagh St. & Park Tce in 1864.
It was later sold to (date unknown) Mrs John Crosbie and her sister Adele Fruchs and called Montflueri School for young ladies.
This building was subsequently sold to Sir and Lady Wigram who later sold it to Christs College.
The site has now been developed into luxury townhouses and the coach house converted into garages. 
I am uncertain what happened to the buildings during the Christchurch earthquakes.

I have also this extract:
Little Akaloa, Charlton and Menzies Bay school centennial:
1862-1962 souvenir booklet
The first school in the area was that of Mrs Carter with her cottage Dames school. Another was the private school run by M.Ashwin and his sisters, but unfortunately all the records on these have been lost.


Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: Emhab on Saturday 12 January 13 09:11 GMT (UK)
Hi Zepher
Thanks for the data on Helen Ashwin, which I'm sure refers to Martin Richard's sister Helen who was born in 1822, did indeed travel to NZ with Martin's family, and ran the Girl's School in Christchurch before dying on 5th March 1903.
I may not have made myself very clear (being new at this), but I was after data on Martin & Emma's first daughter, Helen Elizabeth who was born in June-Sep 1856 in Kings Norton & travelled with the family to NZ. After that she does not appear in Nz records. Since my last post I have done the hard yards & checked shipping records & sent for certificates. Helen Elizabeth may well be the "Miss Ashwin" on the shipping records for "Wakatipu" sailing from Wellington to Sydney arriving on 24th Aug 1882. She married Frederick Sanford Robinson in Sydney in 1882, (cert no 1331)and had 5 children, Muriel b 1883 (died that same year) Leslie F, b 1885, Thomas E b 1887 (died same year), Gladys b 1889 & Una M b 1893 (died same year.
Helen & Frederick lived at "Warrawong", Clearview Parade, Hazelbrook, and Helen died in Katoomba on 10th Oct 1937. Her death certificate names Martin Richard Ashwin as her father, so it is definitely the right person. The cert no is 22299/1937.
So all the searching was worthwhile, as finding her has completed my data on all the children of the family. If I can help you with anything about any of them, I am happy to share.

Kind regards
Marie
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: zepher on Saturday 12 January 13 21:28 GMT (UK)
Thanks Marie,

Thanks for all your information on MRA's daughter Helen. Somewhere in my information I have noted she was also called Nellie and her son Leslie Frederick Robinson was a known poet and author in Australia.

My Grandmother was Mabel Ashwin who was married to my Grandfather William Keith Preece on the 8th Sept 1898 in Christchurch at Hagley House. I'm planning a trip to the UK later this year to look around the areas where they lived. Do you have any information on where Edward Ashwin is buried in Bidford?

Regards
Max

Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: Emhab on Sunday 13 January 13 09:09 GMT (UK)
Hi Max

Lucky you going over there - I was there in 2000, but did not know where the Ashwins lived back then. If I go again I too will be visiting villages with a camera, and lots of chalk for dusting old headstones...
Edwards burial record only says he was buried on 22nd Sep 1832 in Bidford-Upon-Avon. back then there was usually only the one church in a village, so look for one that existed back then, or has been rebuilt/added onto. We found current vicars more than willing to help with opening old record books etc for us, so don't be afraid to ask.
I will do a check for you at work tomorrow (Perth WA Genealogocal Library) and see if I can find out what was there then. Will get back to you

Kind regards
Marie
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: Emhab on Monday 14 January 13 13:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Max
The original vllage church for Bidford appears to be The Parish Church of St Laurence, which dates back to 1206. This would be the place to look. The church is situated on the North bank of the River Avon, just off High Street in the centre of the old village of Bidford. I found some photos of the church and it looks quite substantial, and had plenty of old headstones in the churchyard.
I also have an email address for the Church Committee, and you can email them to find out if there are church records anywhere saying who was buried in the churchyard in 1832 - they may be able to help verify that Edward is there. The email address is  info@stlaurencebidford.org.uk
Good luck with that

Kind regards
Marie
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: zepher on Tuesday 15 January 13 03:27 GMT (UK)
Thanks Marie,

Been in touch they do have a list of monument inscriptions but the only Ashwin they have is for Caroline Elizabeth ASHWIN d Oct. 30 1876 aged 43. In saying that I understand there are quite a number that they were unable to read.

The burial records are kept at the Warwick Records Office where I intended to visit anyway.

Again many thanks for your trouble, and if I find anything I will be in touch.

regards
Max
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: howardg on Saturday 17 August 13 09:31 BST (UK)
Hello, Kate
Your reference to Daisy Gover really caught my attention. Frederick Gover is my great grandfather, and I am a grandson of Daisy's brother, Robert Gover. I knew Aunt Daisy quite well as I was in Auckland  1946-1953 when she was living in Great South road. Granny Gover was with her.  I also stayed with Daisy in 1964 when she was living in Orakau Ave Epsom, Auckland. I knew that Daisy had married a second cousin with the surname Gover, and lived in India. I met Daisy's brother, Sydney, on one occasion in 1969 when he was living in Hastings. This link should show you a painting of the ship Haddon Hall that Frederick arrived in NZ on 1874/1875     bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/paintings/the-ship-haddon-hall-173479
Best Wishes
Howard
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Saturday 17 August 13 23:18 BST (UK)
Hello Howard,
How wonderful to make contact! Yes Frederick is my GGrandfather likewise. I live in Australia and only met my Grandmother Daisy on two occasions in the sixties - unfortunately. I also met Joyce her sister but do not think I met Sidney, or your father Robert. Daisy's husband was Alfred Adrian Gover the Son of Alfred Greatbatch Gover, and they lived in India most of their married life - which was not long, only nine years as Alfred Adrian died from appendicitis in India in 1914. Poor Daisy returned to New Zealand with 3 children under five to live with her mother Esther Alexandra - she was still only in her twenties. My father Alfred Terence came to Australia in the 1930's and here married my mother Joyce Peters.

Thank you for the link to the wonderful picture of the Haddon Hall - she looks a beautiful ship. Do  you know that Frederick was not supposed to travel on the Haddon Hall originally but rather the ship the Cospatrick! Fortunately for us he was not on the Cospatrick since the ship  burnt at sea with only about four survivors.

Frederick it seemed made a good life for himself in New Zealand in teaching and the Church, however I know very little about him really, or Esther Alexandra. Again I know little about your father Robert, or Sidney other than they were Daisy's siblings. Was your father Robert in the bank in Auckland? - as my father was as a very young man prior to his coming to Australia - I seem to have recollections about the bank!

Did your father talk about Frederick or Esther when you were young? My regret now is not having asked questions about family as I was growing up - but I think youth are more concerned about the present.

I am so pleased to have made contact.

Regards
Kate


Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: howardg on Tuesday 20 August 13 11:51 BST (UK)
Hi, Kate
Here's what I have found out about Frederick Gover (1844-1932 ) and  Ester Ashwin.
According to the Cyclopedia of NZ, Frederick was born in Shipton in 1844, educated in Bath, and came to NZ in the ship Haddon Hall in 1875. He joined the Wellington education board, taught at Taratahi School, and transferred after one year to Fernridge School. He was headmaster there. The article appears to have been published about 1897, so he may have taught there for quite a long time. The cyclopedia says the average attendance was 90, and the headmaster was assisted by one certified and one pupil teacher.
The 1879 Education second annual report of the Minister of Education confirms that Frederick was teaching at Fern Ridge in the East Wairapara

The Haddon Hall left London 13 June 1874 and  arrived at Port Chalmers on 17 Sept 1874. In the ship’s passenger list there are 8 cabin passengers and 36 steerage passengers. The names of the 8 cabin passengers are known, but the 36 steerage passengers are not listed. If Frederick was on that voyage then he would have been in steerage.
The news did filter through to me a couple of years ago that Frederick had been expected to catch another boat that as you say was lost at sea.  A nearby relative has related the story as "Frederick's folks apparently didn't know he was on the Haddon Hall and assumed he had gone down with the Cospatrick.  They only discovered his continued existence some years later when a mail boat brought mail from him to them" We don't know how authentic the story is, but that is what has come through.
Frederick and Esther married in 1882 and had 4 children:  Daisy, Sidney, Robert, Joyce


Esther Ashwin was born in 1864. She had a long life, and I knew her as ‘Granny’ in Auckland from about 1950-53. I have the one small photograph of 4 Gover generations from Esther to myself taken about 1950. Esther was then living with her daughter Aunt Daisy. The photo is not a high quality/definition one of Esther, and in general, but everyone can be recognised. Not sure what the occasion is. My father and grandfather have ties on.

My grandfather had 3 children. My father is John. Robert is my uncle.  My father worked in the Bank in Auckland, so it was interesting to hear that your father had also worked in the bank.

Howard


Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Sunday 25 August 13 02:11 BST (UK)
Hello Howard,
Thank you so much for the information on Frederick Gover - it helps no end. A couple of years ago I met up with a cousin from New Zealand during which time he gave me information on the Govers.  I have just revisited those papers and found I have more information than I realised and some of which may be of interest to you.

I was given a photocopied handwritten page about Frederick's emigration to New Zealand on the Haddon Hall and the story of how he came to be on the Haddon Hall rather than the ship Cospatrick. It gives quite good detail and account. I do believe the story to be authentic as it sounds like the story has been related through experience to the person who documented it. Unfortunately there is no date or signature on the document, but to me it does ring true.

Also my cousin gave me a photocopy of a page out of Frederick's Family Bible - which is very interesting. This has been written in Frederick's own hand as he has signed it -  I do so value that. I realise also that I  have information on the Mundy's as well - Frederick's mother's side giving detail of her siblings and of her parents.

In my own research I have gone back to Edward Gover born 1764 to parents John and Ann in Chatham Kent. I believe what I have found is true - these would be Frederick's grandparents. I do so enjoy the challenge of finding the ancestors!

I am more than happy to share all this information if you wish.

Regards
Kate
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: howardg on Sunday 01 September 13 02:02 BST (UK)
Hello, Kate
I have obtained copies of the information that my relative has on Frederick, and I have a copy of the handwritten letter on Frederick's emigration to NZ.  Possibly the original has a date, as I can make out ..50 on it.
The version of the family tree that I have "has Frederick as the 3rd of 4 children of Robert Gover (of Maidstone, Kent) and Rebecka (sp?) Mundy (of Petersfield). 
Robert was the son of Thomas Gover and information starts to get sketchy there.  Possibly born 14.3.1773 Chipstable.  His parents may have been John and Ann.  It looks like he married Sarah Minifie."
We may have taken a few leaps of faith based on a letter from the 1980's that mentions Thomas Gover (early 1800's) having two sons William (whose descendants are in Australia)  and Robert (whose descendants are in NZ.
I would be interested to hear more on Edward, and the family tree of Frederick.
Here is a link that should get you to a photo, taken between 1890-1905, of the Fernridge School that Frederick taught at. In the photo are 3 staff on the far left , and the gentleman may be Frederick.
http://bones.mstn.govt.nz/archives.html
In the quickfind search enter gover, and press O.K
Left click on the photo of Fernridge School and it should enlarge sufficiently.
Also there are photos of Robert and Sid Gover in the Masterton hockey team. Sid is in the second row on the far right, and Robert is sitting  next to him.
There are Govers in the Marriage register shown.

Howard




Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Tuesday 03 September 13 08:22 BST (UK)
Hello Howard,
I was very excited at receiving your post with the link attached. I think the photos are wonderful - and I could well believe that the photo of the male teacher is Ferderick! I have a brother who is the spitting image of that gentleman. It is amazing - only the other day I was thinking how nice it would be to have a photo of Frederick! It is good to see Sidney and Robert as young gentlemen too.

Currently I am at my daughters place doing some babysitting and do not have access to all my family history information. I will be back on Sunday and will be more than happy to hand on information on the Mundy's and of what I have found on Robert and Thomas Gover - and their lineage. Were you aware that Robert was a Wesleyan Minister!

I will talk more on my return home.
 
Regards Kate

Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: howardg on Sunday 08 September 13 03:27 BST (UK)
Hello Kate
I have been on the Ancestry site investigating Frederick's family tree and  get the same result as you. i.e
John > Edward > Robert > Frederick.   I have the dates of baptisms of Edward and Robert at Chatham Kent. I cannot trace back further than John as I don't have any way of dating when he was born. I put some approximate dates in the search engine for a possible DOB but there were quite a few John Govers came up, non of whom were born in Chatham. It is interesting to find out that Robert was a Wesleyan minister, and that you found a family resemblance to Frederick in the photo.
Here is a link to Frederick about the time he retired. You need to scroll down after entering link.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=WDT19051106.2.10&srpos=57&e=-------10--51----+F+gover--

Howard
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: whiteKat on Monday 09 September 13 07:56 BST (UK)
Hello Howard,
I am back home now. Thank you so much for the web site relating to Frederick's retirement. Each bit of information adds to our ancestor's stories.

I am glad your searches correlate with mine. You mention the baptismal dates of Edward > Robert > Frederic. Have you come across the Medway Archives site? I was most excited at finding this site since you can browse the actual St Mary's Registers - and others.

Knowing the dates of Baptisms makes the search much more productive. Through searching the Registers I have downloaded the actual entries for many of the Govers - siblings of my people as well.

However I too, cannot find a Baptism for John Gover. Edward's parents were John and Ann - and what I have found in the St Nicholas Register for Rochester, is a marriage of a John Gover to an Ann Young in the year 1745. I believe their first child was born in 1746 - the first of nine children of which Edward 1764 appears to be the last. As Rochester is just down the road from Chatham I do believe that I have the correct marriage.

Also having no dates to go by I have spent many hours looking for other Govers. I was delighted to find, in 1714 in the St Mary's Register, a marriage of a John Gover to an Ann Atkin Chatham Kent. I am of a mind to believe that they could be the parents of the John of unknown Baptism date who married in 1745.

Here is the Medway Archives site:

http://cityark.medway.gov.uk/query/results/?Mode=Search&PathList=%2FZ4a_Medway_Ancestors%2F%0A&SearchWords=&DateList=

Also I will need to scan the information on the Mundy's so could send by PM if you like.

Regards
Kate
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: howardg on Wednesday 11 September 13 07:42 BST (UK)
Hello Kate,
Thank you for sharing the information going back before Edward. I was really pleased to hear it. I had quite quickly got back to Edward on the Ancestry site, and then was stymied. Below is a link to several other links on Govers. I found the link on the pre wedding gathering to farewell Aunt Daisy interesting. It would be good to go into PM for the Mundy's information.  Also I will be scanning the Gover family documents I have and photo with Esther in it, so I can send that through to you.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=q&hs=1&r=1&results=1&dafdq=&dafmq=&dafyq=&datdq=&datmq=&datyq=&pbq=&sf=&ssnip=&tyq=&t=0&txq=Daisy+gover&x=28&y=8&e=-------10--1----0--

Howard
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: Vaso on Tuesday 27 January 15 09:18 GMT (UK)
.....Robin Ashwin ... is the descendant of Charles Ashwin, Alfred's brother whom you mention.Charles Francis Godrey was born in 1816. He married Caroline Amelia, daughter of Joseph Reece of Essex and had 3 children: 1)Caroline Grace 2) Godfrey Napier, married Mabel Rosa Gibson and had a son Edward Manley 3) Charles Stephenson married Eliza Sarah Joy ? and had a son Eric Charles Godfrey ...

Dear Semaphore and others chasing Ashwin history .. hello!
It's been very good reading the trail of messages through rootschat; I'm also researching - my son is a great grandson of Arthur C. Ashwin (through his father's maternal line) and I was wondering if you could clarify a name: C.F.G. Ashwin marrried Caroline Amelia - in your message you have her listed as daughter of Joseph Reece - however the marriage record I've found online has her surname listed as Lincolwe (married in 1855) - are you able to shed any light on the names?
Hoping you get this message as I'm new to the club,
Cheers,
Vaso
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: RodChasH on Saturday 19 December 15 16:31 GMT (UK)
Hello Ashwin seekers, I hope some of you are still monitoring this thread!
WhiteKat I notice back at the beginning you mention Edward Ashwin and Ann Roberts. They were my 3x Great Grandparents. Edward was the son of Manley Ashwin and Mary Godfrey (Godfree), I believe, and Manley the son of Thomas Ashwin and Hester Manley. I had come across the Manley name when researching the Ashwins but had ignored it because it didn't seem to fit into my particular Ashwin branch until I discovered that Edward's son William had named his son George Manley. Then, thanks to posters on this thread I was able to discover Edward's parents.

The Manley name interests me, the fact that it recurs in the Ashwin family tree must mean that it had some significance to the family and that Hester and her father were considered important. So far as I can make out her father was Job or John Manley of Crowle Worcestershire. It has been mentioned that he was from Charlecote but I can find no connection there. Does anyone have any further information?

Honeybourne and Bretforton are very close does anyone know of the connection between the Honeybourne and the Bretforton Ashwins? I am amazed by the coincidences that occur in family history. My uncle and his family moved from Birmingham to a village very close to Bretforton in the 1950's, unaware of any family connection or Ashwins except that Ashwin was his grandmother's maiden name.

Family legend has it that Elizabeth Ashwin, born 1844 daughter of James who was Edward's son, my great grandmother, was disowned by the family for marrying beneath her. Yet there is no evidence that this was the case, anyone any ideas?

Many thanks to anyone who may have some information.

Rod.
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: RodChasH on Saturday 08 July 17 14:56 BST (UK)
For any Ashwin descendent with a few million to spare:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-60398540.html
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: Gay Hancock on Tuesday 30 October 18 21:22 GMT (UK)
Hello all I am a Great grand daughter of Edward Marston Ashwin, My grandfather is Milford Ashwin, my father is Edward Herbert Ashwin . My name is Gaynor Ellen Hancock nee Ashwin and I live in the beach side area of South Australia,about 6 kilometres from where Edward Marston bulit his Semaphore house. I have only just started looking at the Ashwin side of my family, my father did not speak of this side of the family at all and perhaps because he was so young when his father  died he did not know very much. He was more connected with his mothers family
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: Bradwell77 on Sunday 07 April 19 08:29 BST (UK)
For anyone researching anywhere near Bretforton, Worcs, you need to hpget a copy of Rev Shawcross’ 1910 work, now out of print. It transcribes all the Bretforton parish registers and has extensive details of all wills for the Bretforton families, which include Ashwin, Morris, Harwood and Hewens. He also includes references to the families outside Bretforton which he had found.

There are also extensive trees going back well before 1538.

You can get a cd copy for £13.99 here.

https://midland-ancestors.shop/index.php?route=product/search&search=Bretforton%20Parish%20Register%2C%20W.%20H.%20Shawcross%20(1538%20-%201837)

I promise you will not be disappointed.

Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: Hettie Ashwin on Sunday 12 July 20 11:13 BST (UK)
Hello,  This will complete just a bit more of the picture for the future. Dion and I are interested in the history of the Ashwin. We now live in South Australia, Millicent.
We are related to Arthur Cranbrook Ashwin (explorer), brother of Edward Marston Ashwin (insurance died 1901, 55), son Milford Ashwin (died 1919, 45), sons Frank (B1916 died 2005, 88  and Edward.
Frank married ? one son Bryan, Then married Una Trenwith, son Dion Ashwin & 2 daughters Rose, Wendy.
Dion married Heather. 2 sons, Keith, Simon and 1 daughter Jessica then Dion married Hettie (me) one son Elliott.
Title: Re: On finding the real EDWARD ASHWIN!
Post by: geoharvey on Thursday 31 August 23 11:56 BST (UK)
Edward Ashwin married Elizabeth Wheeler of South Littleton in 1814.
Edward was born in 1790 to Thomas Ashwin (1788-1824) and Phoebe née Cormell (1761-1810) of Cow Honeybourne.
They had 5 children Edward, Susan, Ellen, Martin and Sarah, who all moved to N.Z. with their widowed mother Elizabeth and Martin's family in 1863.