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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: bhaven on Saturday 02 April 11 21:22 BST (UK)
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I am hoping to find where my gr.aunt is buried but have no idea which cemetery she would be in. I have a death cert stating East Sussex County Mental Hospital, Hellingly where she died in 1921 after 4 days with pneumonia. It gives her address on Pevensey Rd , St. Leonards and occupation of Companion Housekeeper. I live in Canada but will be visiting that area for a short time in July.
Can anyone give any suggestions on how I can find this out. Thank you,
Jean
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Sorry, date of death 1931
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The hospital has its own chapel and I wouldn't be surprised if it had a cemetary too. Plenty of photos of the hospital interior on Urbanex ex sites if you google "Hellingly hospital". As far as I know it is in the process of or has been redeveloped into flats so access shouldn't be a problem. Can't seem to get into old maps at the moment to check for burial grounds although from experiences elsewhere they are often not marked with anything but a plot number and no idea where the register is-possibly at East Sussex Records Office Lewes
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Hellingly Hospital also appears on facebook
http://www.facebook.com/hellinglymentalasylum?v=feed
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No burila plots visible on Old-maps
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Thank you for your help. I looked on the website but don't see an indication of burial ground. I looked on the East Sussex Records site but it is 25 pounds per hr for someone to research and as I don't know which cementery she is in I am reluctant to go that route as it could be costly. I was hoping there might be individual graveyards with lists of occupants in the East Sussex area. It seems she was only in the hospital 4 days and I am guessing the cemetery would be close to the hospital or close to her home on Pevensey Rd. If anyone knows of any such lists I would be grateful.
Thank you again
Jean
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Hi Jean
I shall be going to Hellingly sometime this week to follow up a lead on one of my ancestors and will probably have a wander round the local churchyard whilst I am there.
If you would like me to check to see if your relative is buried there I'd be more than happy to!
Bev
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Thank you so much Bev. Her name was Elizabeth Crump Myers and she died 4 March 1931 age 61. As she was unmarried and all her family was in Yorkshire I am not sure who would take care of these arrangements. Hope you are lucky.
Jean
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My pleasure.
I have looked up her death record and it comes under the District of Hailsham so I shall see if I can find anything in either Hellingly or Hailsham!
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I was hoping there might be individual graveyards with lists of occupants in the East Sussex area. It seems she was only in the hospital 4 days and I am guessing the cemetery would be close to the hospital or close to her home on Pevensey Rd. If anyone knows of any such lists I would be grateful.
Thank you again
Jean
Try contacting Wealden District Council to see if they have lists or they may be able to tell you where a Hellingly death would be buried although with only 4 days residence I would think she would have been left to family/friends to sort. Just a thought, does it say 4 days on the death cert? If so that is more likely the length of time of medical supervision for that illness not necessarily her time in Hellingly.
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Weldon District Council don't appear to have an email address to enquire although there is a phone number and an address on web page. As I am in Canada I will see if I can get the info online first. The death cert. shows her occupation and residence on Pevensey Road so that may be where she was a Companion Housekeeper. Cause of death stated pneumonia for 4 days. Its possible that the family she worked for may have looked after things, in their own plot? The address was 3/21 Pevensey Road, St. Leonards. Is there a way of finding out who lived there in 1931?
Thank you, Jean
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There is an email, curiously ???, foodandsafety@wealden.gov.uk always used to come under parks & gardens
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Pneumonia 4 days, doesn't mean she was only at Hellingly for 4 days, just that the illness was diagnosed and she died within 4 days. As to who lived at Pevensey Rd if anyone on here has a St Leonards Kelly's or similar for that period that should sort the househlder. Might be worth posting it as a seperate look up
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Bev, if you haven't been yet, I live just along the road from the Hellingly church and would be happy to help.
Only busy tomorrow morning.
Annabel.
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Hi Annabel - I actually went on Monday but only to the Cemetery, not the Church! Found nothing although there are many unmarked graves {though I DID find MY family member I was looking for!}
Jean - Yesterday I had to go to Hastings so whilst I was there I popped into the Crematorium/Cemetery and a nice lady checked all through their burial records for the St Leonards & Hastings area but, unfortunately, didn't find her.
Not sure who would hold the records for Hellingly... suppose it might be Eastbourne?
Is there any chance that her family in Yorkshire would have had her taken back home if she had no family in this area and was unmarried?
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Think it is Wealden District Council at Crowborough
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Thank you for trying. The only thing I know is she was companion to a Mr Bell in London who was a retired tree planter born in INdia. The time she was with him spanned two census records and she moved with him to Hailsham. When he died she must have found work with someone else on Pevensey Rd. Its probably a stretch to think she would be buried with him. I suppose I could try that. I doubt she would be transported back to Thirsk in Yorks. I haven't been able to find her brother either who was also unmarried and died in Whalley in Lancs. Does anyone know what happens to a person's estate, belongings etc. if they do not have family in the area. I suppose they would have to use the train to transport the coffin all that way. Sorry there are a lot of questions in there.
Jean
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Hi there!
I just wonder whether you might get all your answers via hospital records.
The National Archive site says that the records are at The East Sussex Records Office in Lewes
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=509&hospital=east%20sussex&town=&searchdatabase.x=0&searchdatabase.y=0
The office in Lewes is http://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/useourarchive
email archives@eastsussex.gov.uk
She was a patient there almost certainly before she developed pneumonia....although pneumonia can cause confusion because of the lack of oxygen getting into the body.With any luck the records will state who took responsibility for the body and possibly what then happened.
If you email Lewes, It's just possible that they may be able to look it up for you!Here's hoping ;D ;D
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Thanks for that tip. I have sent an email with my request. I think I will follow up on the house she was living in in St. Leonards to see who else lived there as she states that she was a Companion Housekeeper so it may shed some light.
Jean
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Yes, It's worth doing that, even if rather a long shot.You need someone with a Kelly's for that year.If I were you I would do what someone suggested and repost with the Kelly's lookup for that year and area in the title.
If that fails you could try the local library--Hollington Library
http://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/libraries/find/hollington/default.htm
Click on the Hollington Library link to email.They may refer you to Hastings Library, which I suspect is bigger.
Of course, I suppose that she could have been cremated?!You could contact Langney Crematorium
http://www.eastbourne.gov.uk/community/bereavement/contact/
This may not be the correct address, but I'm sure that they could point you in the right direction if necessary.
I hope that this is helpful, and fingers crossed for a result.
When I wander around the local cemeteries, I will keep my eyes open..... ;D
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Found this page whilst searching round the web, wonder if it might help you in any way?
http://tinyurl.com/42qfzr6
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Gosh that looks helpful!
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Hopefully it will prove helpful in some way :)
Couple more bits of info. that may, or may not, help :-
John Martin Bell - born 1839 and died 1920, age 81 in Hailsham... wonder if that's the Mr Bell?
1911 Census shows this for the St Leonards address :- ST RONAN'S, NO 3, 21 PEVENSEY ROAD, ST LEONARDS ON SEA
Wonder what St Ronan's was? Shall investigate!
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Thank you all for all your detective work. I have Mr Bell in 1911 census as Charles Jeffrey Bell, living at 6 Sedlescombe Road South, St Leonards-on-Sea, Hastings. Elizabeth is single and occupants are Mr Bell, Grace Chapman a domestic servant and Florence Tucker Bennett a servant domestic. Mr Charles J. Bell death reg'd 1911 (lst quarter) Mile End Old Town , London aged 60 lc page 303. In 1901 census he is Charles A Bell with Eliz. but that may just be a slip.
I do have a lot of info on the family Eliz is my grandmother's sister. I wonder how this tree is on line? I do use Family Tree Maker so just wondering what the source is as mine isnt public. Very interesting but missing some children and some inaccuracy.
St Ronans appears on that list as a nursing home but not in that location but perhaps that is what it is. I do appreciate all your help and much useful advice.
Jean
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Not sure if I have done this correctly but in the 1911 census does it give any names? Also I found Mr Bell's probate info d 6 June 1911 address 21 Pevensey Rd but he died at Lindisfarne, Tower Rd West, Sussex. Is there a hospital there? I have had a great response from Archives and hopefully I can get something on line as I won't have a lot of time when I get there.
Jean
Hopefully it will prove helpful in some way :)
Couple more bits of info. that may, or may not, help :-
John Martin Bell - born 1839 and died 1920, age 81 in Hailsham... wonder if that's the Mr Bell?
1911 Census shows this for the St Leonards address :- ST RONAN'S, NO 3, 21 PEVENSEY ROAD, ST LEONARDS ON SEA
Wonder what St Ronan's was? Shall investigate!
Hopefully it will prove helpful in some way :)
Couple more bits of info. that may, or may not, help :-
John Martin Bell - born 1839 and died 1920, age 81 in Hailsham... wonder if that's the Mr Bell?
1911 Census shows this for the St Leonards address :- ST RONAN'S, NO 3, 21 PEVENSEY ROAD, ST LEONARDS ON SEA
Wonder what St Ronan's was? Shall investigate!
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If this is Tower Rd West in St Leonards-on-sea, then the road has large victorian houses.
I don't have access to the 1911C, but if you do, then you may be able to work out the number and get more info after that.
I can't find a ref to Lindisfarne, and it doesn't sound the sort of name given to a hospital, so perhaps this was simply a large family home.
I can't find a hospital;there are a few nursing homes there now.
Annabel.
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Mr Charles J. Bell death reg'd 1911 (lst quarter) Mile End Old Town, London aged 60 lc page 303. In 1901 census he is Charles A Bell with Eliz. but that may just be a slip.
On the 1911 quick search with the names of Bell, Chapman, Bennett and Myers it brings up :
BELL, CHARLES JEFFREY - Male, born 1856, aged 55, living in Hastings Sussex.
So if he's 55 when the census was taken in 1911 how can his death be registered in London at the age of 60 also in 1911? ???
Edit... Just found this one :
Deaths Jun 1922 - Bell, Charles J, age 66 in Hastings 2b 56
Maybe that's him and not the other Mr Bell in London?
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Very confusing so many Charles Jeffrey Bells. It is almost certain that he died 6 June 1922 as his address is 21 Pevensey Rd same as Elizabeth although his death was Lindisfarne, Tower Rd West. It appears he was with Eliz for more than 20 yrs. I wonder if she would have a mention in his will. She did continue living at the address on Pevensey Rd. The email I got from Archives suggest Hastings Cemetery and I have written to them. I haven't had a chance to spend a lot of time on Nat Archives website so that is something I will do this evening.
Thank you, Jean
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If this is Tower Rd West in St Leonards-on-sea, then the road has large victorian houses.
I don't have access to the 1911C, but if you do, then you may be able to work out the number and get more info after that.
I can't find a ref to Lindisfarne, and it doesn't sound the sort of name given to a hospital, so perhaps this was simply a large family home.
I can't find a hospital;there are a few nursing homes there now.
Annabel.
If you can access a Kelly or Blue Book directory, they usually have a section at the back called "Houses & Villas" or similar listing house names such as Lindisfarne
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The email I got from Archives suggest Hastings Cemetery and I have written to them.
Hastings Crematorium & Cemetery couldn't find any record of Elizabeth when I visited, but maybe Mr Bell ended up there!
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I followed a lead from Archives which gave me Horsebridge cemetery. I can't see a reference to that but I see Hailsham cemetery. I am not sure if that is different from the ones mentioned earlier. This is more difficult than I thought it would be but I hate to give up. I posted help for Kelly's directory so may get some clues.
Everyone has been very helpful
Jean
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Hi Jean,
Googling Horsebridge Cemetery, doesn't help at all, but there is a cemetery at Horsebridge; it just isn't called that.I don't think that this is the one that Bev visited, but I can't be sure.I got the impression that she went to the Hellingly Church churchyard.
I have just driven round there.There is no name outside perhaps because it is part of the parish of Hellingly.Quite possibly it was called Horsebridge Cemetery in the past, i just do not know.I walked around approx 1/10 of the graves, but didn't see the correct one unfortunately.Some of the graves are impossible to read, and some graves do not have gravestones at all.
Is Horsebridge cemetery specifically mentioned?Is there a grave ref. by any chance?
The Hailsham cemeteries are further away.
I am happy to take photos of the cemetery and email them to you if you eventually feel that this is the correct place....
Annabel.
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The health REcords Manager for Sussex responded to my email saying health records are only kept for 20 yrs but she said a lot of patients from Hellingly Hospital are buried in Horsebridge cemetery which she said is on the outskirts of Hailsham. I can write back and ask if she knows of another name. She mentioned making contact with Registrar of Eastbourne but I couldnt find an appropriate person to write to yet. Thanks for the offer of picture. I am not hopeful there would be a stone but you never know.
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I suppose that the obvious thing is to ask her for the specific address.The one I visited yesterday evening is in North Street.My husband and I just can't think of another graveyard-we have lived here for 20 yr.- but that doesn't mean that there isn't one!
I can't do much today, but there are other avenues I can explore if necessary....
Annabel.
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Horsebridge comes under Hailsham/Hellingly doesn't it?!
I went to the main Hailsham Cemetery in Ersham Road t'other day but didn't find anything amongst the 1930s graves, although once again, there are many unmarked ones!
Happy to go for a potter round and see if I can find anything else too! :)
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I have emailed Hailsham Library to see if the North St cem was called Horsebridge Cemetery in the '30s.
Fingers and toes crossed ;D
(If 3 of us went , we could do it much faster.... ;D ;D)
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I had a response from Hailsham Town Council and Elizabeth's grave has been found #8438 in Hellingly Cemetery, North Street, Hellingly. They suggest I phone the Vicar for any info as they don't have other info except it is a double grave. It seems unfortunate that I may never know who handled everything and where her possessions would go. As there was a post mortem done I would have thought it would be available but it seems many records were destroyed.
I can't thank you enough for all your help. Thought you might like to see who we have been searching for so have taken the liberty of attaching her picture
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What a stunningly beautiful photo.....
I have a prior engagement for this afternoon, otherwise I would dash round there right now!So frustrating. ;D
I emailed the retired vicar earlier re name of the cemetery, but that problem is now solved.
Hopefully one of us came come up with a photo in due course.Worth a look, even if nothing is found!
Well done with all your searching! :)
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I have sent an updated message to Ronald our retired vicar, with your queries, but I think that you will be lucky to get the info you are seeking as I'm sure that it won't be available ie probably lost along the way.
Annabel.
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I'm so sorry--I have walked around and found nothing.....
There are a fair number of unmarked graves.There are also a large number of rabbits.....A lot of the graves have slightly sunk, and as a fair proportion of them have the writing along the sides of the graves, it becomes impossible to read a fair proportion of the graves.I would have to use something to push the grass down at the sides.
I found the area for the 1930s (I think).it is a small sweet cemetery with an aspect looking towards the small village of Hellingly.The Hospital is about 1/2 mile beyond the village.
The stones do not appear to be reference marked unfortunately.
We would need a specific ref within the cemetery I think, to have a chance of finding it ie a map of the plots.Do you know if the Archives have this?
I have taken some photos, although several are on the internet.PM me if you would like them, with your email.
I had hoped to have good news...perhaps another day! :)
Annabel.
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Great news that you at least now know where she was laid to rest.
I found nothing either when I went round the Cemetery... maybe as she was a patient at the Hospital, and having no immediate family in the area, there is no memorial or marker? Perhaps there were no funds available to have anything placed?
Hopefully the Parish will have a record of the plots within the Cemetery? Fingers crossed!
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So glad you checked too, Gravity! ;D
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Hi Jean,
Elizabeth is buried in an unmarked grave at the cemetery.
Through
http://www.localauthoritypublishing.co.uk/councils/hailsham/contact.html and dialling 01323 846988, I enquired about the Hellingly Cemetery, and in fact the grave ref is 843B.
It would be impossible to walk around the cemetery and find it without help as so few of the stones have ref nos. (A big thank you to Tom at the offices, who was so helpful, and who met me at the cemetery).
I have some relevant photos if you would like to send me a personal message with your email, and I can give you directions to enable you to find the grave if you ever come to the UK.I picked a few flowers from the garden.
I have actually learnt an awful lot about tracing graves during this time and as I am thinking about joining a project to photograph gravestones, this has been extremely interesting.If anyone local is interested in this,or in fact anyone at all,please click on the link.
http://www.gravestonephotos.com/public/about.php
Annabel.
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I should add that I meant that I took a few picked flowers from our garden ;D
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Thanks Annabel, how nice of you to take flowers. Here in Canada snowdrops are just peeping out of the ground, we are a bit behind. I have sent a PM to you but forgot to ask if Tom is working at the cemetery or council? I just wondered because some graveyards have people looking after things on site. York cemetery has an office with plans for the plots and I found a number of my ancestors although it sounds like this one is small. I think they usually have plot plans but maybe this one is destroyed. It really is nice to have found the cemetery.
Jean
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Hi Jean,
You could reach Tom at the number that I posted.He is at the council.He came along with the plans, but most of the graves do not have a ref on them, so it is quite complicated!The grounds are tended,but not the individual graves.There are so many rabbit warrens that many graves have slightly sunk, so that the graves' sides can't all be read.I hope that I have enough info for you to be able to find the grave, but I'm pretty sure that Tom would be happy to meet you there if necessary.I'm so sorry that I didn't get his surname....
Our daffodils are passing over now especially as we have had such wonderful weather.
I'll PM you shortly.
Annabel.
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There is a shield on the front of the entrance of Hellingly Hospital---can anyone tell what does it represent's?
Eagleone
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Searching for information about the death and burial of my great grandmother who died in Hellingly in 1949 after some 30 years, I received the following helpful reply from East Sussex Archives dept. This might help others.
We hold a substantial archive of the records of Hellingly Hospital (ref HE series) at this office. A copy of the detailed list is available on the Access to Archives’ website (www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/); it may seem a bit intimidating at first glance but there is useful advice and guidance available on the site.
On admission to Hellingly Hospital patients were given a case-number in two series, one for men and one for women. There are indexes to female patients, 1903-1980s (HE 169/1-16) and female patient case-books, 1903-1918 (HE 28/1-11). In addition to these records, there were papers on each patient, which were kept in files. These included the ‘reception documents' completed on admission, case summaries, card recording visits, death notices and coroner's reports and any correspondence. From about 1930 non-current files were removed from the filing system and arranged in chronological order of the patients' deaths. This series was too bulky to keep in toto and a start was made on selecting a sample which included all cases whose numbers ended in 1. Unfortunately the sampling exercise had not been completed when the remainder of the series was destroyed on the closure of the hospital (HE 142-143 series). I am afraid that the series HE 143 (females) does not include a file for Kate Honneysett.
This means that you are unlikely to be able to discover any medical information about Kate Honneysett unless she was admitted before 1918. Access to medical records less than 100 years old is restricted and, in the case of the NHS Trust responsible for Hellingly Hospital, they have taken the decision not to allow any access to closed medical records except ‘if there were a genetic family reason for disclosure at an earlier date’. You should contact Kim Young, Health Records Manager, Sussex Partnership NHS Foundation Trust, Woodside, The Drive, Hailsham BN27 4ER (kim.young@sussexpartnership.nhs.uk; 01323 444184) to discuss your request.
However, if you can supply a copy of her death certificate (and provided that she died over 50 years ago) then I will extract any non-medical details for you from the indexes to female patients, 1903-1980s (HE 169/1-16). If this shows that she was admitted before 1918, then there should be some surviving medical information for her.
Secondly, the PCC of St Peter's & St Paul's at Hellingly are raising money for a memorial commemorating the many petients who died at Hellingly and were buried in unmarked graves in the council (Hailsham) cemetary at North Street, Hellingly. I can supply details of where donations should be sent if anyione is interested.
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Many of the patients that had no family were cremated on site, hellingly had its own crematorium, I live on the new builds development and follow closely the history of its past
East Sussex registrar office may help u,
It was also used to house single parents as back then it was frowned upon, many ppl that were in the hosp were not mentally ill, place was awful and treatments were often life threatening, a chilling scary place to be in no doubt back then