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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Shropshire => Topic started by: Ray T on Wednesday 13 April 11 17:27 BST (UK)

Title: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: Ray T on Wednesday 13 April 11 17:27 BST (UK)
My GG Grandfather was John HAMLET. According to the 1871 census - by which time he had moved to Birkenhead - he was born circa 1821 in "Shropshire - Stoke". I'm no expert on Shropshire but I am aware there are various "Stokes" - Stoke upon Tern, Church Stoke, Stoke Heath etc.

Is there one simply called or known as "Stoke"?  ... or can anyone suggest how I might narrow my search down?
Thanks
Ray
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 13 April 11 17:39 BST (UK)
Do you have Johns and Lydias Marriage Cert?
If so his Fathers name and occp may help in tracking down a Chrisitening for him.
I noticed in 1861 he is down as born c 1816 Stok, Shropshire, so not much help there either.

Trish :)
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: Ray T on Wednesday 13 April 11 17:46 BST (UK)
Not yet Trish. Looks like they were married in Liverpool in 1849 but I need to check this.

This branch of my family weren't very good with dates - according to the '71 census he was -5 in 1816! I've not actually checked 1861 - where was he?

Thanks for looking
Ray 
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: momo22 on Wednesday 13 April 11 17:50 BST (UK)
On familysearch


John Hamlet married Lydia Jones 24th June 1849 St Nicholas Liverpool. fathers' names have not been indexed :(
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: momo22 on Wednesday 13 April 11 17:53 BST (UK)
according to Genuki Stoke upon Tern and Stoke Milborough are in Salop

Sorry you already know that! :-[
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 13 April 11 17:56 BST (UK)
Marriage Cert has Father as Joseph ;)
Just found it in someones Tree and looked at it;
So the John 08 February 1818, Stoke Upon Tern, Shropshire, to JOSEPH and MARTHA may be correct.
Back soon,
Trish :)
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 13 April 11 17:58 BST (UK)
Dont worry about it momo22,
5 years ago I didnt even know there was a Shropshire ;D
(I live in Australia and grew up in NZ so only worked out English Counties since starting my Tree and helping others)
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 13 April 11 18:06 BST (UK)
1861 he is in Oxton, Cheshire born c 1816, Stok, Shropshire
RG9/2647/109/26
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: momo22 on Wednesday 13 April 11 18:09 BST (UK)
He still in Oxton in 1851 born Salop Shropshire


children Thomas 3 and Andrew 9m born Oxton

HO107 piece 2174 folio 33 pg 25
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: Ray T on Thursday 14 April 11 15:18 BST (UK)
Thanks ever so much Trish & Momo. This has given me several more bones to try and hang some meat on.
Ray
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: Black Night on Thursday 14 April 11 21:21 BST (UK)
Hi Ray . I've lived in Shropshire for over 40 years .And to my knowledge there not a Stoke ( one word ) I'm sure the one your looking for would be Stoke on Tern. I live close to Stoke on Tern, I know when I first came to live in the area it was quite a thing to Say Stoke on Tern. People from the village would say this is the real Stoke , Stoke on Trent is just a load of small town bunched together to form a City. With Both Stokes being close to each other it does cause some confusion . hope this helps BN
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: cnickless on Tuesday 19 April 11 06:16 BST (UK)
I have family born in Stoke St. Milborough, Shropshire and on the census they usually say Stoke, Shropshire...so can be confusing as like everyone has said there is no plain "Stoke" in Shropshire!
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: Ray T on Tuesday 19 April 11 09:09 BST (UK)
Wikipedia says that "Stoke" is one of the most common place names in the UK and gives over 50 examples. Unfortunately, only 3 of these are in Shropshire so there are probably even more.

I suppose that an illiterate person faced by a census enumerator back in the 1800s was either unlikely to care what problems they would cause people like me in the 21st century or indeed be aware that there were umpteen other places with the same name.

Thanks again all.
Ray
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: TJTwolf on Friday 17 June 16 19:08 BST (UK)
Hello, I realise this is a very old thread and you may already have either found it to be one of the aforementioned 'stokes' or may have discovered that there is or rather was a stoke in salop as it was then known. If you visit google maps and look for a place called Gleet near Burford in South Shropshire then move roughly a half mile or so west north west you'll be roughly in Stoke, in fact you can still pull up Stoke farm if you use street view. It was absorbed into Gleet parish in the 1800s. Hope this may help if you hit a dead end. Came across the post while doing similar research of my own.

Other options not mentioned could be Stokesay or Church Stoke, both also in South Shropshire.
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 18 June 16 13:10 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat TJWolf,

Local knowledge is always welcome on here :)
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: Ray T on Saturday 16 July 16 17:22 BST (UK)
Ditto from me. I'd forgotten all about this thread. I must have another look at this branch of the family sometime.
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: Alberbury on Saturday 16 July 16 23:01 BST (UK)
https://familysearch.org

1841 C    Cotwall & Moortown     Ercall Magna   Salop

Joseph Hamlet      M   50-54   Shropshire
John Hamlet      M   20-24   Shropshire
Elizabeth Hamlet   F   20-24   Shropshire
Sarah Hamlet      F   12           Shropshire



Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: Alberbury on Saturday 16 July 16 23:06 BST (UK)
https://familysearch.org

1851 C  Cotwall Lane    Ercall Magna    Salop

Joseph Hamlet   Head     M   57                                                   Stoke Upon Tern, Salop
John Hamlet   Son          M      35  Unm   Journeyman Shoemaker   Ercall Magna, Salop
Richard Hamlet   Son          M   28                                                   Ercall Magna, Salop
Sarah Hamlet   Daughter   F   21                                                   Ercall Magna, Salop
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: Alberbury on Saturday 16 July 16 23:14 BST (UK)
https://familysearch.org

1861 C  Poynton Green    Ercall Magna

Sarah Evans   Head    F   31                                           Ercall Magna, Shropshire
Joseph Evans   Son           M   9                                           Ercall Magna, Shropshire
Wm Evans           Son           M   7                                           Ercall Magna, Shropshire
John Evans           Son           M   2                                           Ercall Magna, Shropshire
John Hamlet   Brother   M   44 Unm   Farmers Labourer     Ercall Magna, Shropshire




1861 C   Moss Street   Oxton Cheshire

John Hamlet   Head   M    45  Mar        Domestic Gardener     Stoke, Shropshire
Lydya Hamlet   Wife   F     36                                           Oxton, Cheshire
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: Ray T on Monday 18 July 16 18:47 BST (UK)
Thanks Alderbury but that's clearly the wrong family of Hamlets. John Hamlet was married in Liverpool  in 1849 working as a brick maker so it's unlikely he was back in Shropshire making shoes in 1851 but that is him and his wife Lydia in 1861.

There must have been more than one John with a father named Joseph. I need to go back to my tree and review the line.

R
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: Alberbury on Monday 18 July 16 22:38 BST (UK)
John Hamlet bap 4 December 1816 HIGH ERCALL, SHROPSHIRE   
parents: Joseph & Elenor Hamlet

John Hamlet bap 8 February 1818   STOKE UPON TERN, SHROPSHIRE
parents: Joseph & Martha Hamlet




Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: Alberbury on Monday 18 July 16 22:45 BST (UK)
https://familysearch.org

1871 C   Oxton   Cheshire

John Hamlet            Head   50  Car Owner   Stoke, Shropshire
Lydia Hamlet            Wife      44                    Woodchurch, Cheshire
Thomas Hamlet            Son      23                    Olton, Cheshire
Andrew Hamlet            Son      20                    Olton, Cheshire
Martha Hamlet           Daughter   19                    Olton, Cheshire
Elizabeth Hamlet        Daughter   16                    Olton, Cheshire
John Hamlet           Son      15                    Olton, Cheshire
William Henry Hamlet   Son      13                    Olton, Cheshire
Alexander Hamlet   Son      11                    Olton, Cheshire
Emily Hamlet           Daughter   8                    Oxton, Cheshire
Harriet Hamlet           Daughter   6                    Oxton, Cheshire
Samuele Hamlet           Son      3                    Oxton, Cheshire
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: Ray T on Tuesday 19 July 16 09:23 BST (UK)
I think you have probably reached the place where I stopped some years ago!

I have the family back to 1871 - I am descended from daughter Emily and "car owner" reflects the family firm owning horse-drawn cabs in Birkenhead.

It then appears that there are two father/son Jacob/Johns at around the same time in Shropshire. At first sight it looks more likely to be the second ones and I'm intending to have another look this morning.

R
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: trish1120 on Thursday 28 July 16 12:59 BST (UK)
The John Hamlet I found earlier that Alderbury has found also had a Brother;
SAMUEL Hamlet Christened 25 July 1824 Stoke Upon Tern.

Unfortunately he is not with his Parents in 1841 Census.

F/S has a possible Burial 4 March 1828   Upton-Waters, Shropshire for a MARTHA Hamlet.

If this is Martha Joseph would likely have remarried.

Having trouble with Anc so cant track John 1881 in earlier Census yet.
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: Alberbury on Thursday 28 July 16 20:09 BST (UK)
https://familysearch.org

1841 C  Stoke Hall    Stoke Upon Tern

Thomas Walley      M   25-29   Shropshire
Mary Walley      F   20-24   Shropshire
Samuel Walley      M   15-19   Shropshire
James Beeston      M   15-19   Shropshire
Samuel Hamlet      M   15-19   Shropshire
Mary Randles      F   25-29   Shropshire
Ann Simon              F   15-19


1861 C  Ercall Heath    Childs Ercall

Samuel Hamlet   Head      35  Agricultural Labourer   Stoke Upon Tern, Shropshire
Eliza Hamlet   Wife      29                                   Uffington, Shropshire
Joseph Hamlet   Son      8                                   Bolas Magna, Shropshire
Thomas Hamlet   Son      4                                  Childs Ercall, Shropshire
Emma Hamlet   Daughter   2                                  Childs Ercall, Shropshire
Title: Re: Stoke ?? Shropshire (HAMLET)
Post by: Ray T on Sunday 07 August 16 15:59 BST (UK)
Thanks Trish/Alderbury. I've not been ignoring you, I've been away and, meanwhile, my FindMyPast sub. has eventually expired.

I'll have a look at your suggestions and take them on board as and when I can verify them - which may be a while as I'm away more than I'm here for the next couple of months and I don't feel like renewing a sub. that I'm not going to make use of.

Cheers
Ray