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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: treddz on Tuesday 19 April 11 20:12 BST (UK)
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Having traced the Underhill side of the family to 1730.
Has anyone any ideal on how to from back into the preceding century's.
Trying to see if there is a connection to Underhill's who were Lord Lieutenants
of the county.
Lot's on the American sideclaiming back to them but can find no web site
for the English side?
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If it is John born 1730,several members on Ancestry have trees but not going back past 1730.
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Yes that is the one.
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I dont see how they can know he was born c 1730, Tachbrooke, Warwick without a Christening and therefore a Father for him?
Earliest Underhill and variant I can find in Warwick is;
Marriage;
William UNDERILL, Occp Gent
Marie UNDERILL
25 November 1577, Bishops Tachbrook, Warwickshire
(Source FreeREG)
Familysearch Pilot has a few possible Christenings for John c 1730.
And Familysearch.Org has a few Underhill submitted Trees going back to 1522.
Trish :)
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My ancestor Richard Whitehead of Baxterley marrried Elizabeth Underhill at Middleton, Warwicks 28 May 1664. I have this information about the Underhill family at this early date.
"The name Underhill only appears twice in the index to the parish registers of Hints. William Underhill, gent., is witness to the marriage of Edward Wyatt and Elizabeth Bracegirdle of Weeford on Jan 1st 1657. An Ed. Undhill appears in the index but I couldn´t find him. He was doubtless also witness to a marriage. Of the people concerned many seemed to come from adjoining parishes - Hints was very small."
If anyone can tell me if this is the same family (or ancestors) of those who were Lord Lieutenants of Warwickshire I would be most grateful. It seems that the Underhills of South Staffs (Tamworth area) may have been armigerous.
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I have an Ethel A Underhill in my family tree born 1889 I think in Warwick but can't seem to find a birth for her. Any connections to yours?
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Hi GingerVicky,
Bit of a a tricky one here.
Only Birth Reg c 1889 for a Ethel Ada in Warwickshire;
Ethel Ada U YARDLEY, June 1889, Warwick, 6d 594
Ethel Ada MUCKLOW, Dec 1889, Solihull, 6d 531
Now I looked at Trees and they have Ethels Mother as Ada Giles.
Cant find a Marriage for Stephen to her.
They also have Stephen previously Married to a Mary c 1878
There is this Marriage though but not till 1914!
Stephen UNDERHILL/Ada E YARDLEY, June 1914, Coventry, 6d 1464
Other YARDLEY Births FreeBMD
STEPHEN JOHN U 1890
JOSEPH ERNEST U 1892
ARTHUR GEORGE U 1894
I presume the U is for Underhill
Trish :)
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Sir Hercules Underhills heir was in the 1700's nephew William Underhill, who was later knighted and married Alice Lucy, daughter of Sir Thomas Lucy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules_Underhill
And this lot back to the 1400's!
"He also left a bequest to his cousin, Valentine, sister of Sir Hercules Underhill of Idlicote"
http://www.oxhill.org.uk/History/Underhill.htm
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1891 we have;
Stephan Wiederhold 32
Ada E Wiederhold 22
Ethel A Wiederhold 2
Stephen L Wiederhold 5/12****
If you look at other images on the page, eg a Jane Mitchell the J in her name is the same as the second initial of Stephen Jnr, so the image is Stephen J not L as transcribed.
1901 we have;
Stephen Underhill 42
Ada Underhill 32
Ada Underhill 12
Stephen Underhill 10
Joseph Underhill 8
Arthur Underhill 6
Mildred Underhill 4
Bertha Underhill 1
By the time Arthur comes along I think they have started Reg the Children as UNDERHILL;
ARTHUR 1895
MARTHA MILDRED 1897
BERTHA LILIAN 1900
All Reg Warwick
They Christened JOSEPH ERNEST Underhill 16 April 1893, St Mary, Warwick, Warwickshire
(Familysearch.Org)
But as you can see his Birth was Reg as Yardley :)
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Hi again GingerVicky,
I may be clutching at straws here but;
1881 Census has a Ada GILES, born c 1869 Leamington with her Father JOHN 1844 Northamptonshire in Warwickshire.
A Ada Elizabeth GILES Marries Dec 1886 Coventry Reg. Frank YARDLEY possible Spouse
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Wow lots in of info thanks. My Ethel Underhill married Percy Powell in 1912. I did see the wiederhold census. Quite a lot if Underhills to sort through
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Yes lots of info!.
It seems to me that they (Stephen/Ada) may have both been married before they got together and were not free to marry one another til 1914.
You may have to buy a couple of Certs to confirm all of this.
Trish :)
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So do you think they were together but married to other people? So Ethel his daughter? So confusing
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So I've got back as far as John Underhill married to martha. His parents are john and jane parsons. Anyone know when john senior was born and who his parents were?
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Yes I do think that.
1881 Census Stephen is Married to a Mary with a Son John age 1
By 1891 he is with Ada E and yes it is likely Ethel Edith is his Daughter as her Birth is Reg as Edith Ada U (presume Underhill) Yardley.
I would get her Birth Cert if I was you and the 1914 Marriage Cert.
I havent found what happened to Mary and Son John, she may be with someone else also.
For most people Divorce was too expensive in those days.
Will look around more for you later today.
Trish :)
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1841 John/Jane are in Warwick, 1851 she is Widowed.
F/S.Org;
Burial;
JOHN Underhill, 28 Dec 1846, St Mary, Warwick, Warwickshire, age 53, Birth c 1794
Residence Bridge End (matches address on 1841 Census)
So you need to find on F/S all of John/Janes Childrens Christenings to give you an idea of his Fathers name. There is often a naming pattern.
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Thank you you have been a big help
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Hello, this is my first post, but seeing the "Underhills of Warwickshire" I couldn't help but reply ... I am one of them :)
Of course there are many branches, mine going back to Joseph and Elizabeth Clerkson married at St Nicholas in 1750. For 20years I have been searching for a precedent. I will return to Warwick next month (I live in AZ). For the next 100 years life centered around St Nicholas Church (BMD's) and Bridge End (probably stone masons to the EArl of Warwick as it is less than 1 mile from the castle)
So if there are specific questions I'd be glad to try to help.
Chris Underhill
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I spent most of my life in Bishops Tachbrook. In the sixties I used to play domioes with Albert Underhill he would have been in his eighties. He had a son called Ken who lived in the village with his wife and children.
I also have the Underhills from Tachbrook in my tree. The earliest I have is Thomas born 1825 married Sarah Gilks 25/3/1847 at Southam. His parents were John and Sarah he died in 1871 at Bridge End, Warwick.
Alan
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I come from a line of Underhills.
Clementia Underhill (1675-1760) was my 8th great grandmother. She married William Coldicott in 1703. She was the daughter of George Underhill and Hannah Huckvale.
My 3rd great grandmother was a Coldicott and she married a Gough, which is my nan's maiden name.
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I realise I am replying to an old thread but I am new to this site.
My 5 x great grandparents William Coldicott (c.1725 -1791) and Joyce (nee Waters) Coldicott (1729 - ? ). They were married in 1757. Their grandchildren include an Underhill and thereafter the name appears as a first and middle name for several generations - my grandfather was named John Underhill Coldicott (1898-1957), and so was his uncle, my great great uncle (1852 - c. 1920).
Is there a link to the marriage, in 1703 at Shipton-on-Stour, Warks, between (a different) William Coldicott (1671-1746) from Ilmington, Warks, and Clementia Underhill (1675-1760)? Descendants of this marriage also have Underhill as a first and middle name. You would imagine that there is a connection between the appearance of the Underhill name in my branch of the Coldicotts and this marriage but I cannot confirm the relationship between the two Williams. I don't have any reason to think there is any blood connection between Joyce and Clementia, because the Underhills were from south Warwickshire whilst the Waters were from Coventry.
The two Williams are not father and son or father and grandson. I know that William (1671) had a son William but his dates were 1704-1772. They also had a grandson William, but he was born 1744. In any case I am 99% certain that the parents of my William Coldicott (c.1725) were John and Mary (nee Lane) of Blockley, Worcs.
So the question is why would the Underhill surname appear in our branch of the family as a first name, the same as in Clementia's branch, unless there was a relationship between the two Williams? There are I guess three possibilities:
1. The two Williams are closely related but we are just missing an obvious connection
2. There were two independent marriages between a Coldicott and an Underhill, I happen to only know about one of them, and there are connections between the two branches of the two families but they are distant enough not to be obvious.
3. As per 2 above, but the two lots of Coldicotts and Underhills are not related at all - i.e. their surnames arose randomly for geographical reasons in the south Warks / east Worcs / north Gloucs triangle.
My feeling is that 2 is the most likely explanation but that is purely instinctive.
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That's interesting! There must be a connection to the Underhills. I'd be curious to see what the connection is.
In my tree I have an Underhill Coldicott born about 1772 in Coventry to John Coldicott (1742) and Sibella Ludford. Those are the only line of Coldicotts I have that were in Coventry.
Now I'm curious and want to figure it out.
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I am aware of the John and Underhill Coldicott you refer to - they are respectively the grandson and great grandson of William and Clementia. John's father, who was William & Clementia's son, was also Underhill (1715-76). John and his descendants, including the younger Underhill, seem to be recorded as Caldicott, not Colidcott. The younger Underhill did not survive childhood, dying in 1778.
John also had two brothers called Underhill: the first died as a baby in 1752 and the second lived 1756-83 but had no descendants.
There are descendants of John and his siblings (who kept the Coldicott spelling) listed through the 20th century but they do not seem to have a Coventry or Warks connection and one large branch settled in Australia. There don't seem to be any further Underhills amongst them.
My source for all of the above is a Genes Reunited contact of mine who first alerted me to William and Clementia but like me cannot find the link with my branch of the Coldicotts despite having 24,000 names in his tree.
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I'm going to see what I can find. What sources do you have for William's parents and birth date? There seem to be a few trees on Ancestry with different parents for William. Do you know where he might have been born?
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Sorry, just to be clear, which William do you mean? My 5 x great grandfather who married Joyce Waters or the one who married Clementia Underhill?
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The one who married Joyce Waters. I'm a descendant of William and Clementia.
I've started looking at the Coldicotts and Waters. It's hard to get back one more generation on them. There's a lot of William Colidcotts born around the same time and same area. I only have a sub to Ancestry so I can't see what's on Find My Past but it might have more. I tried using Family Search as well. Going by other trees seems useless because everyone has different information. The sources they have are fine but there's no way of knowing if they have the correct baptism. In those situations I usually look at the father's name. So for example there was a William Coldicott born to Stephen and Hannah. The date is a bit off but the place looks good. I would think that the name Stephen would have been given to one of William and Joyce's sons, even if just a middle name. So for now I'm going to say that Stephen is probably not the father of your William. I like to try to prove and disprove that.
You say that you believe William's parents were John Coldicott and Mary Lane. So again, try to prove or disprove it. Yours is the first I've seen to have those parents. Other trees have Stephen and Hannah but other names as well. I'm less likely to believe those other trees only because I've seen the baptisms that they have sourced and I don't think there's any logic behind it. I think it's likely they saw the baptism as a hint. Name looks good, birth date is close enough, place looks good so it must be for him. I like to do more sleuthing than that.
I haven't dug into William and Joyce's children too much yet. Is it just Joseph Waters Coldicott who uses the Underhill name for his children?
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The 1725 birth date for William is an educated guess – it could be earlier in the 1720s or later. I don't have a birthplace for him either but believe Warwickshire rather than Coventry. If he is the son of John Coldicott (c. 1680 – 1758, born Blockley, Worcs) and Mary Lane (1790 – c 1757) then he had siblings John, Elizabeth and Mary. This, as I recall, came from John’s will which was supplied to me by a Gene Reunited contact but unfortunately is on my old PC. I may be able to retrieve it from a back up.
Joyce Waters, daughter of Joseph Waters and Hannah Porter (married 10/02/1723 at St. Michael’s Coventry), was baptised in Barcheston, Warks, on 09/11/1729 and married William, also at St. Michael’s Coventry, 15/8/1757. This baptism and these weddings have certificate details recorded in various places and so are reliable.
There is evidence from their wills for William’s death in 1791 and his brother John’s in 1779, and William is said to be interred in the churchyard of St. John’s Coventry.
Both Waters and Underhill appear as middle names among the descendants of William and Joyce’s son, Joseph Waters Coldicott (1759-1835), Waters for 3 generations and Underhill for 4, the last instance I am aware of being my grandfather, John Underhill Coldicott (1898-1957).
Few of Joseph’s siblings lived long enough to have descendants. His older sister Mary (1755-1833, note: born out of wedlock) married Wale Windsor and the Windsor name is the only one regularly used in that line. His brother George (1764-1797) had 3 daughters and a son – one daughter was called Joyce Waters Coldicott but there are no Underhills recorded.