Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Donegal => Topic started by: donwin4 on Monday 16 May 11 16:46 BST (UK)

Title: Reconciling GV & census
Post by: donwin4 on Monday 16 May 11 16:46 BST (UK)
Need help reconciling Griffith's Valuation & Irish census.
So far I have traced my GGGf back to Joseph Hamilton b:1785 d:21/4/1863
I am attempting to trace him back to Scottish linage.
Griffith's Valuation (page 52, yr. unknown) has him as a farmer in Donegal/Kildrum-Upper/Allsaints/- family were members of Crossroads Pres Church, where there are several sets of helpful records.

I believe I have the farm map location  54.982 long  7.41981 lat.(2 f ) also Hans Hamilton (1 g)  don't know who Hans is.

However, the 1901 census shows Joseph's son James & wife Margaret as farmers listed as house # 12 Garshooey, Killea, - a  site very close on the map but different townplace? Then the 1911 census shows Margaret, now a widow & farmer as house # 15 in Garshooey, Killea. - there is no house #12 listed.

Could this all be the same site? How would I find Griffith's Valuation for other years? I would very much appreciate any help available.

I also found another family member James Hamilton was the Lord Mayor of Londonderry in 1927. Any help in info on him also appreciated.  ??? Am I asking too much at once?  Thank you Joseph D. Hamilton

Moderator's Note- image #1 removed- see terms & conditions-
image #2 removed- see Griffith's Valuation-
Title: Re: Reconciling GV & census
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 16 May 11 18:04 BST (UK)
The date for Griffith's Baluation in that area is 1858 (appears on website under 'details')

PRONI have the following listed- "Probate of the Will of James Hamilton late of Garshuey County Donegal Farmer who died 28 March 1903 granted at Londonderry to James Hamilton Factory Manager." This fits with Margaret Hamilton widowed between 1901/1911.

The house numbers in the census records are just the numbers for the householdd on that particular census and #12 (1901) could easily be the same as #15 (1911). You can look at the scanned census pages and check building details, etc.

What we refer to as Griffith's Valuation is the printed version such as available online. The revision books follow up any changes in tenants, ownership, etc.
This PRONI document explains the valuation records-
Here's the Natinal Archives page-
Title: Re: Reconciling GV & census
Post by: donwin4 on Monday 16 May 11 21:31 BST (UK)
Thanks so much for your help- very interesting and helpful. Is it probable that the farm listed in GV in 1858 at Kildrum is the same location that is listed in the census as Garshooey/Garshuey in 1901? they are very close.
Also, do you have any suggestions as to how I can proceed in searching farther back from Joseph Hamilton b:1785 d:21/4/1863 ?
I seem to be stuck there. Family folklore hints at our arriving from Scotland around the time of the Ulster Plantation. Thanks again
Title: Re: Reconciling GV & census
Post by: joemc on Tuesday 17 May 11 18:08 BST (UK)
It will be difficult to get much further back than 1785 for County Donegal, many would be happy with getting back that far given the  lack of church records Pre 1800.

A William Hamilton appears in the Tithe Applotment book for Killea Parish for the Townland of Carrigans in 1830

Had a look at the Flax Growers Bounty List of 1796, see 1 Hamilton family in Killea, Hans Hamilton, doubtful whether its the same Hans who appears in Griffith in 1858, more likely a father or even Grandfather. There are also 4 Hamilton families listed for All Saints Parish, but these lists don't go down to Townland level so with a common name like Hamilton are of little use without other corroborating evidence.

My advice is to work on known members of the tree, a brother cousin etc. of Joseph or descendant may have emigrated and taken family stories with them, also try general name searches with parish, Townland  in google, google books etc. you may be surprised what turns up.

Title: Re: Reconciling GV & census
Post by: donwin4 on Tuesday 17 May 11 21:45 BST (UK)
thank you much - Flax, I wondered what was grown. Since last post  I found a Great Uncle, James Hamilton had a shirt factory in Derry & it was still there 10 years ago when a cousin of mine visited. she went to the farm & was offered a stay but was not able to handle the "outhouse." We're so spoiled! Thanks again
Joe H
Title: Re: Reconciling GV & census
Post by: joemc on Tuesday 17 May 11 21:59 BST (UK)
I remember Hamilton's shirt factory, I used to deliver to it many years ago, one of the many shirt factories here in Derry, most now sadly gone.  Heres a link to many Hamilton BMD's in various Parishes in Donegal, it may be of some use to you.

Title: Re: Reconciling GV & census
Post by: lmgnz on Sunday 23 September 12 07:24 BST (UK)
Hi Joseph

I can tell you a little about James Hamilton's sister Kate and brother Samuel as they came to NZ in the 1920s. Neither married so had no family but a third brother David did have a son, Whitty. My grandparents came out to NZ from the same area in Derry (my grandmother's family also attended Crossroads Church) and the families were very close. I have some photos of "Aunt" Kate and Sam.
Title: Re: Reconciling GV & census
Post by: donwin4 on Wednesday 26 September 12 16:06 BST (UK)
Hi - how great to hear from you. I did not know about Kate going to NZ - is that Catherine b:25/01/1871-1957? I know about Whittaker but I also have a Charles as his brother. I gather you are cousin? I am the Grandson of Joseph 1863-1964
I have pictures of Him & his brother James I can send if interested. What is you connection? I am Joseph Donald Hamilton & live in tarpon Springs FL. Would love to hear more from & about you - I have a GEDCOM of the family I can send if you like. Thanks Joe H.
Title: Re: Reconciling GV & census
Post by: lmgnz on Wednesday 03 October 12 00:02 BST (UK)
Hi Joseph,

I am not related to the Hamiltons but they were very close friends with my Dougherty family from Creevagh. Sam Hamilton emigrated to NZ with my mother's Uncle George Washington Searles Dougherty and his bride Kathleen nee Switzer. Excerpt from my GWS Dougherty info below.
Searles Dougherty inherited the smaller of the two Creevagh farms from his father in 1906 but hoped to have a better life by emigrating to NZ along with his friend Samuel Hamilton (whose brother James was later the Mayor of Londonderry). Searles & Samuel booked their passage to New Zealand on the SS Minnedosa and completed (Canadian) Passenger Declarations on 16th July 1920. A month later on 12th August 1920 Searles married Kathleen Elizabeth Switzer at Crossroads Presbyterian Church. The Minnedosa departed from Liverpool on the 27th August 1920 and arrived in Quebec on 4th September. In his passenger declaration, Searles gave his occupation and intended occupation as farmer and stated that he was going to his brother in Auckland, New Zealand.   :)

Actually he did not have a brother in NZ but Sam did.

Kate Hamilton came out to NZ in 1922 ( I will have to look up her tombstone to check the date she died but 1957 sounds right. I never knew her and I was born in 1958). Another excerpt below is from my info on my grandmother Wilhelmina Dougherty who married Oswald Livingston in Oct 1921

 :D. In February 1922 Oswald and Mina were issued with passports at Portsmouth, England and shortly after they emigrated to New Zealand, onboard the steamship Ionic. The Ionic departed on 7th April 1922, traversed the Panama Canal on 25th April and arrived in Wellington on 14th May 1922. Also on the Ionic was Kate Hamilton  , who was going to NZ to house-keep for her brother David. However Kate actually went to live with her brother Sam Hamilton in Tawa St., Melville. :D

GWS & Kathleen Dougherty were still living with Sam along with their newborn son when Kate and my grandparents arrived in NZ and they all lived in the same house until GWS moved to a house round the corner. When my mother (b1925) was about a year old my grandfather built a house next door on land he had purchased from Sam and so my grandparents lived next door to the Hamiltons fro the rest of their lives. Hence I have kate's photo album which must have been given to Mina after Kate died.

If you want to give me your email address I can send you some photos.



Title: Re: Reconciling GV & census
Post by: donwin4 on Wednesday 03 October 12 00:30 BST (UK)
Hi Linda - Thanks so much for that valuable information- My address is: *

I am going to be away for a couple days but will be in touch as soon as I get back   Peace, Joe Hamilton

(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.

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Title: Re: Reconciling GV & census
Post by: lmgnz on Wednesday 03 October 12 00:54 BST (UK)
Hi Joe,

I have just sent my cousin a link to your post as he is older than me and knew the Hamiltons. Also his late wife was related to Whitty. Alan lives just outside Hamilton which is the city in which Melville is a suburb.

I will  send you some of the photos that I have already scanned from Aunt Kates album that we can identify and in the weekend I will scan some of the Londonderry ones which we cannot identify so must be Hamiltons. Kate Hamilton was "Aunt Kate" to my mother who I will be meeting up with later this afternoon.

Title: Re: Reconciling GV & census
Post by: Fresh Fields on Wednesday 03 October 12 04:16 BST (UK)
Hello Joe.

Attached are two photo's I've been asked to forward. All the best.

- Alan.
Images resized - stretching screen
Title: Re: Reconciling GV & census
Post by: laurene_hamilton on Monday 02 September 13 22:16 BST (UK)
Hi Joe,

Thank you for your recent message. Unfortunately I have been unable to reply to you directly, so that is why I am replying to your forum post. I think my mother 'Carolyn' may be your 2nd cousin.

Any information you have will be greatly received as I am really interested to know move of the family.

Do you know of Joseph Boyd Hamilton? (My grandfather and James Hamilton's son)

Hope to hear from you soon, and take care
Title: Re: Reconciling GV & census
Post by: olandcol on Sunday 09 July 17 09:49 BST (UK)
I am your great-uncle colin mentioned in your post. I have ust been visiting your grandfather Boyd and your search was mentioned. Both your great and great-great grandfathers were named James. The oldest set up the factory and was mayor, His sons James and Joeseph inherited the factory. My dad James was High Sheriff but not mayor of Londonderry. Elizabeth was a Sister (not Matron ) in Altnagelvin but was later Matron of a couple of Nursing homes on both sides of the border. Alan died under her care in Donegal a few years ago. Ian is alive and well in Australia. You have lots of cousins, most  of whom I know about. I have registered on this site so you can respond to me.

Title: Re: Reconciling GV & census
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 09 July 17 09:54 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat. It's always nice to see different branches of a family finding each other here  :)

If you make 1 more post you'll be able to use PM (Personal Message) system to exchange email addresses and other details (such as information on living family members) which you aren't allowed to post online here.
Title: Re: Reconciling GV & census
Post by: laurene_hamilton on Sunday 09 July 17 12:05 BST (UK)
Hello great uncle Colin, nice to hear from you and thanks for reaching out.

I am Laurene, Carolyn's daughter (as you properly already know). I've been researching the Hamilton family tree on & off for 5 years and it's such a big family with lots of history. I have a family tree and some pictures of the Mayor that were sent to me by Joe Hamilton who is the grandson of Joseph Hamilton, who was James' (Mayor) brother.

Does that mean your dad, my great-great grandfather James was High Sheriff, who also inherited the shirt factory? 

Best wishes, Laurene

Title: Re: Reconciling GV & census
Post by: rathmore on Monday 10 July 17 15:18 BST (UK)
great photos, Hamilton mention on the donegal site,

come down page click on ALLSAINTS
Title: Re: Reconciling GV & census
Post by: Fresh Fields on Monday 10 July 17 21:11 BST (UK)
Hello from NZ.

Lmgnz has asked me to publish this photo of the graves of Sam and Kate HAMILTON.

Regards, Alan.