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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: daisynook on Sunday 12 June 11 11:07 BST (UK)
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Hi all - The address on the marriage cert is 50 Upper Baxter Street, Hulme for both parties which I find strange! June 6th 1873 Sarah Kelly married William Mather. Father's name Henry Mather, Engineer and Michael Kelly, Bricklayer. Witnesses William and Dinah Foy.
I am having another tack at this topic. I wondered if anyone knows if there are any Domestic Servant records between 1863 - 1873. I think maybe Sarah was 'living in' with someone or maybe even with the Mather family as the address was the same on the marriage certificate. Why then would she not be on the census? And where are the rest of her family?
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Hi Daisynook,
It is really confusing when you start a new thread when the other one is still current.
For everyones information here is the link to the other thread :
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,537887.0.html
I was actually just looking into this via your other thread. I can tell you there was no UPPER Baxter Street in Hulme on the 1871 census nor the 1881 as far as I can see.
There is also no Sarah Kelly/Kelley etc living in the Manchester area of the correct age (plus or minus 5 years) and born Ireland. It is also possible that she came from Ireland to work as a domestic servant after the 1871 census and her parents were still living in Ireland. :'(
Mo
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The Mather family were living at 50 Baxter Street in 1871 - no mention of it being "Upper" and also no sign of Sarah.
Class: RG10; Piece: 3996; Folio: 168; Page: 32
In my tree I have a couple of certificates where the address of the bride and groom is the same and in one case it seems like a totally random address compared with other records for the couple. I think they were establishing "residency" to get married in a specific church.
http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/marriages.htm#COL7
However, I can't see how this would apply as William Mather would have already established residency (presuming Baxter Street and Upper Baxter Street were the same place).
Luzzu
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Thank you Luzzu - Your attachment was interesting, showing the Marriage Cert can be misleading. The address on the Cert does say 'Upper' Baxter Street. It has been suggested to me that the address may have been a lodging house that they both could have been living at.
I started the new post with a view of finding any domestic servant records.
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I thought I would try and find out about the witnesses to see if that helps but it doesn't.
They were married at Manchester Cathedral 12 Oct 1872 William Fo(e)y and Dinah Wardle. Dinah was born in Hulme. By 1881 they had moved to Radcliffe.
I can't find Dinah in 1871.
Luzzu
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I started the new post with a view of finding any domestic servant records.
I think, although I haven't looked into it in detail, that there were so many girls in domestic service you will be unlikely to find anything. I think even fairly ordinary families employed "maids of all work". Probably only the large estates would have kept records of their servants.
Luzzu
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Thanks for that. I had already looked into the Foy's. I had actually tracked their relatives down on Ancestry and had conversation with them but they knew of no family connection to the Mathers. They were probably just friends or came from Ireland together.
I have also found a 17 year old servant at Chorlton on Medlock 3990 100 23, I think this could possibly be her.
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I am not sure about a lodging house ???. It seems a huge coincidence that the Mathers were living at Baxter Street in 1871 and the address on the marriage certificate is Upper Baxter Street, which as Mo has already said doesn't exist on the 1871 or 1881 census.
And the number of the house is 50 in both cases.
I wonder if Baxter Street was a very long road and number 50 was at the "upper" end of Baxter Street so it would have been known amongst the locals (but not officially) as Upper and Lower Baxter Street ???.
Luzzu
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There only seem to be two Sarah Kellys of the right age living in Manchester on the 1871 census, neither are born in Ireland.
On was born circa 1850 and is a boarder with the Clegg family at Edward Street, St Barnabas, Manchester (occupation jack tenter) and the other is a domestic servant with the Cummins family. She was born circa 1854 and is Sarah J.
If the census returns were completed by the head of the household, would Mr Clegg and Mr Cummins necessarily know where their boarder/domestic was born and maybe just put Manchester out of convenience.
Luzzu
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Baxter Street was split in two by George Street (c1878 & 1894 maps), but nothing indicated it as upper or lower.
It now seems to be part of the Mancuian Way, somewhere between Medlock St and Rockdove Ave on today's maps
Baxter street can still be found on the 1939 map I have between River st, George st & Chester st
Ken
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Using the same address means you don't have to have the banns called in 2 separate parishes. I imagine there is cost involved. I have a number of certificates where this is the case.
Huge numbers of people were domestic servants. There are no national records of them. People obtained jobs by word of mouth, an advert, or in some areas via hiring fairs.There were some agencies later on but the likelihood of any records surviving is exceedingly remote.
Gibel
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I'm going back to this long-ago post about my great-grandparents Mather and Kelly of Upper Baxter Street, Hulme. I had dropped it, unable to get any further with that line but yesterday I found another member of the family, William Mather's brother-in-law Robert Peel who was marrying William's sister Elizabeth and found his address on marriage was - yet again - 50 Baxter Street, Hulme. I find this a mystery!! Maybe this address was a lodging house. The Peels got married at Holy Trinity, Hulme so unlike William and Sarah they weren't at that address because they wanted to get married at the Cathedral.
Any more ideas?
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I can`t see what the mystery is.
Father Henry Mathers name appears in the Rate Books at 50 Baxter Street, from 1870 to 1878 so Elizabeth got married from her parents house in 1878. Robert Peel would just have lodged there possibly, or just used it as a "suitcase" address.
Mo
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Wow, thanks so much Mo, I hadn't thought of looking at Elizabeth's family, I was just looking for the connection to Sarah Kelly.