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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Chrissie246 on Friday 15 July 11 08:24 BST (UK)
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Hi, I am researching my Great Grandfathers family.
David OWEN, married Arundel Francis HOWE in 1882 at Newcastle
Ann OWEN who married John JACKSON at Newcastle in 1887
George Phillip OWEN who married Marcella LYNCH 1892 at Newcastle.
David OWEN and his family came out from Wales. I am trying to find out when and how many of the family came out also.
Parents of David, Ann and George were William and Mary Anne (Phillips) OWEN
Many thanks. Chrissie :) :) :)
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Check shipping lists,resources page here has websites.
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I am not able to offer the shipping information.
I do note that your great uncle George was divorced from MARCELLA JESSIE. He seems to have had at least one more child whose mother he married in 1936.
This information can be "expanded" if it is of interest to you.
Sue
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Evangeline I M Owen. Born 1883 New South Wales to David Owen and Arundel F - Reg 26803
Ethel M Owen, Born 1886 New South Wales To David Owen and Arundel F - Reg 29474
Walter W Owen. Born about 1890 New South Wales to David Owen and Arundel F. Reg No 24490 Newcastle. NSW
Harold S Owen. Born about 1892 Newcastle. New South Wales. Father David Oween and Mother Arundele F. Reg No 24933
Sandra
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Evangeline I Owen married Evan Thomas 1908 NSW. Reg Place was St Peters. NSW Reg No:- 12114
Evangeline Isabel Mary Thomas. Died 9 April 1964 Queensland.
Father David Owen and Mother Arundel Howe. Reg No B064741 Page 2829
Sandra
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Possibilty for Arundell F Owen. (Can be verified by the parents names) Died 1922 New South Wales.
Registered Hornsby. New South Wales. Reg No 16147
Father Richard and Mother Susannah
Sandra
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Ethel M Owen married Cleve S Dawson Lithgow. New South Wales in 1909. Reg No:- 5099
Ethel May Dawson. Died 1940 Ryde. New South Wales. Reg No 24323
Father David and Mother Arundel Frances
Possibility for Harold S Owen married to Doris G Hamilton in 1916 Lithgow. New South Wales. Reg No 16367
Sandra
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Son of George Phillip Owen and Marcella Lynch/ - Cecil A Owen. Born 1903 New South Wales. Birth Registered Wickham. New South Wales. Reg No 8417. Father George P Owen and Mother Marcella J
Daughter of George and Marcella - Dulcie M Owen. Born 1904. New South Wales. regiostered Wickham. New South Wales. Reg No 38386. Father George P Pwen and Mother Marcella J
Reginald G Owen. Born about 1894 New South Wales. . Father George Owen and Mother Marcella. Redg No 37292
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Do you have some birth dates/places for these siblings, please?
Judith
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Hi Chrissie,
So, were you looking for information outside your immigration query?
There seems to be a good deal available.
But perhaps you can say if it is of interest ;D
Sue
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In case it is of interest :
NSW 1903 Electoral Roll for the electorate of Newcastle, and in the polling places of
a) Waratah...
Arundel Frances OWEN, at her domestic duties, Turton Road (Waratah)
David OWEN, inspector of nuisances, off Turton Road (Waratah)
b) Wickham
George OWEN, Hannell St Lindwood, a labourer
Marcella Jessie OWEN, Annie St Lindwood at her domestic duties
I guess that Lindwood would be the name of the home, and that it was on the corner of Hannell and Annie Streets, but you should check that out further as I may be mistooken (relying on my memory of that area).
Cheers, JM
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Dear All who have replied to my query. Many thanks, the response is much appreciated. :) :) :)
I don't know how to reply and thank each of you individually so I will reply, clarifying what I already know and what I need to know if that is OK.
David OWEN was my Great Grandfather, he was born in Wales, `14th July, 1859 in Davies Row, Michaelstone Lower, parents William and Mary Ann (Phillips). I have his Birth Certificate. He was their eldest child. His sister Ann was born in 1861.
In the 1861 Census, he is not with his parents but with his maternal Grandparents, Thomas and Mary PHILLIPS, at Ty Mewydd Loughor, Carmarthenshire. David's parents William and Mary Ann were at 15 Davies Row Michaelstone Super Avon with his sister Ann (0) and ? his G/father David Owen (60) and ? an Aunt Catherine (16). This is feasible as children often went to live/stay with Grandparents etc, esp. as there was a new baby in the house.
Despite spending many hours going through records, I have been unable to find him in the 1871 Census or in any shipping records to Australia. (Someone from Wales on this site thought he might have come out as a Seaman aged 16, I'm not convinced of this). Ann and George were his siblings and he also had another brother Ronald who didn't come to Australia, instead resided in Wales, but was the Chief Engineer on the Ship the Queen Mary and thus visited his siblings often.
The next thing I have been able to find out about him was when he married
Arundel Francis Howe, 1882, and I do have the info about their children and the 1903 Electoral Roll
So for now the most important thing I need to find out is where was he and who was he with from 1861 to 1882 and when and how did he come to Australia. Once I have this info I will continue with rest of the story. I appreciate all the info I have received and will collate that in the meantime.
Many thanks once again.
Chrissie. :) :) :)
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Hi
If you check our Rchat resources for NSW you find Christ Church Cathedrals images of their parish records ...... including BDM info AND ... family sheets ..... That church is C of E at Newcastle and could be of interest.
Also transcripts of Death certs should show not just burial details but also length of time in the colonies. Perhaps the informant would have known the exact year of arrival.
Cheers JM
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Many thanks JM. I will look at getting the Death Certs. They were Methodists, my G/Grandfather, David Owen, being a Lay Preacher as well as the Mayor of Carrington at some stage.
I think I may need to make a visit to Newcastle to check through some more records.
Cheers. Chrissie. :) :)
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Re David Owen
From the NSW SRO online index, date of death 13 January 1947, with probate granted 17 April 1947. The contacts contents of that packet can be purchased via their online site, or if you are close to Kingswood NSW you can of course inspect and copy them there.
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/ Archives Investigator using the simple search option and the keywords "David Owen death" You can use that same search option for any likely probate packet up to around 1950 at present. (surname followed by the word 'death' and 'all words')
From NSW BDM online
David Owen's 1947 death was registered at Mayfield (which is in the Newcastle area) with parents as William and Mary Ann .... the ref #4379
Cheers, JM
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David Owen's 1947 death was registered at Mayfield (which is in the Newcastle area) with parents as William and Mary Ann .... the ref #4379 JM
His brother GEORGE died in 1947 too!!
Of interest in the light of Chrissie mentioning another brother of the two named RONALD, that GEORGE and second wife ALICE named a boy RONALD.
He died in 1950 (19344 Bankstown)
Sue
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Hi JM and Sue,
Many thanks. I will get that Probate stuff, may prove interesting. He lived with his eldest daughter Evangeline at Mayfield.
I am learning a lot about George, someone I had not heard of until recently, but I had heard about Auntie Annie.
Cheers Chrissie. :) :)
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The NSW SRO index also has the divorce papers indexed for George Owen's divorce from Marcella. It was in 1906. These can be ordered via the online option also.
I have copies of NSW divorce papers from 1910 for one of my forebears, and that file was several hundred pages of A4 and A3 records, including bdm certificates and the SIGNED statements from all the witnesses etc, who included family members. It confirmed so much information that I had already researched over many decades, all in the one file ! I think it was possibly the best $40 I ever spent on FH research. The signatures and the statements alone explained an extended family, several children fostered INTO the family were babies whose mums died at their births and were cousins etc .... Middle names fell into place, a mystery or two was solved, and there were so many NSW certificates which in that era were foolscap (portrait), and both sides of those forms were completed. One statement from a witness completely confirmed back three earlier generations, mentioned the ship of arrival and the actual date of landing in Sydney.
Of course, that does not mean that your George's divorce papers would have that detail. The divorce that I had researched was for a female (a direct ancestor of mine) seeking a divorce from her husband, and she sought custody of the children and was not naming a co-respondent. It was not usual for a female to seek a divorce under those circumstances, particularly as her husband sought to have her return to the marriage. The usual grounds for divorce were adultery. None was admitted by either the wife or the husband. The divorce was granted to the female and she retained full custody of the children, and the husband was ordered to pay maintenance, all the court fees, all his wife's fees etc. Very unusual, perhaps that is why the file is so very detailed with so many witnesses called to the NSW Supreme Court.
However, it may be that George Philip Owen's divorce from Marcella may have the vital clues for Chrissie. (ref # 5585 of 1906)
Cheers, JM
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http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14770700?searchTerm="george phillip owen"&searchLimits=
Here are some details surrounding GEORGE's divorce.
Her remarriage to co-respondent
REG 11449 IN 1906 BULL ARTHUR J
To OWEN MARCELLA
At WICKHAM
She died
Reg.14021 In 1950 BULL MARCELLA JESSIE
Father FRANCIS JAMES
Mother MARY ANN
At MAYFIELD
Sue
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These I think are the deaths of the two boys of whom she was given custody in the divorce.
REG 34982 IN 1966 OWEN REGINALD GRANVILLE
Father GEORGE
Mother MARCELLA
At BELMONT
Reg. 82130 In 1971 OWEN CECIL ARLINGTON
Father GEORGE
Mother MARCELLA JESSIE
At NEWCASTLE
Sue
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Hi Chrissie,
Would this be the Seaman named David Owen that you mention?
From the Sydney Morning Herald of 14 Feb 1867
David Owen, a seaman of the steamer Grafton, convicted of desertion, was sentenced to fourteen days' in gaol.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13140993
If so, then perhaps this may be of interest re that desertion (from earlier paragraph in that article)
Joseph Creer, master of the steamer Grafton, was sued by Frederick Furney, a seaman of the vessel, for a balance of wages to the amount of £5 3s. Defendant claimed a set- off to the amount £2 12s. 2d. for the loss of a bag of sugar through the carelessness of complainant, and this deduction being allowed by the Bench, they ordered payment of the
residue, £2 10s.
I have not checked if the steamer Grafton was engaged in a coastal trading only, but there's the master's name for you to follow up. :D
Cheers, JM
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Hi Sue & JM,
Many thanks once again. Interesting about the divorce. The family never spoke of George or his children, maybe because of the divorce and maybe Marcella had custody of them, so they never mixed with the others.
I will have to see if the children of George had children, I still have an Uncle aged 92 who can tell me somethings, he didn't mention the divorce though!
I don't think that Seaman would be him. David would have only been 8 at that date.
Cheers Chrissie. :) :)
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From the link that Sue gave re the divorce mentioned in the newspapers
"petitioner was granted the custody of the two children" George was the petitioner, not Marcella, so she did not have the custody of those two children. NSW BDM online index for births has 100 year closure, so at present there's only two children showing for Marcella's subsequent marriage to Arthur John Bull.
Cheers, JM
Hi Sue & JM,
....The family never spoke of George or his children, maybe because of the divorce and maybe Marcella had custody of them,
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/0eab/
Here is a death notice for George published in 1947. It lists his children and grandchildren. Seemingly only those with ALICE.
This is the only marriage I can see to fit the couple. She is indexed under 2 names. A second time for her perhaps.
REG 13972 In 1936 OWEN GEORGE
To GRAY ALICE MAUD
At BANKSTOWN
REG 13972 In 1936 OWEN GEORGE
To MILLS ALICE MAUD
At BANKSTOWN
This may be an earlier birth and infant death for the couple.
Reg 27120 In 1910 OWEN NORMAN H
Father GEORGE P
Mother ALICE M
HAMILTON
Reg 13679 In 1910 OWEN NORMAN H
Father GEORGE P
Mother ALICE M
HAMILTON
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0eac/
Here is a death notice for ALICE which lists her children. They are the same names as those listed for GEORGE (as father) in his death notice.
Sue
ADDING
Thank you for correcting that JM. George had the 2 boys, not Marcella.
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Re George
He sought sequestration in 1909
George Philip Owen, of Waratah Road Broadmeadow, and formerly of Hannell-street, Smedmore, Wickham, formerly a miner, and now a journeyman butcher.
SMH 18 December 1909
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15085674
Perhaps that may be a more likely reason for his lose of contact with his siblings ...
Cheers, JM
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I haven't followed up on the following
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5630231 The Advertiser (Sth Australian newspaper of 29 September 1919) but it carries a report from Sydney about a very serious crime in Newcastle and the arrest of a George Owen.
Cheers, JM
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A couple of interesting birth rgistrations which may be ALICE MAUD's
REG 650 In 1879 GRAY ALICE MAUD
MOTHER SARAH ANN
SYDNEY
REG 22904 In 1880 MILLS ALICE MAUD
FATHER WILLIAM HENRY
MOTHER SARAH ANN
PORT STEPHENS
Her death
REG 21608 In 1951 OWEN ALICE MAUD
Mother SARAH
BANKSTOWN
Sue
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Re George's first wife
NSW SRO :
Marcella Jessie Bull date of death 25 June 1950 with probate granted 18 Oct 1950
NSW BDM :
Marcella Jessie Bull, dau of Francis James and Mary Ann, death registered at Mayfield 1950 #14021 ... that document should give you details of the children of both marriages, however it would only be a reliable as the informant's own knowledge.
Cheers, JM
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Hi JM, I don't think the Sequestration would have worried them unduly and my Grandfather, David Owen's S-I-L was a Master Butcher and he specialised in training butchers.
I will check with my Uncle, because he knew all about him, maybe it was just my mother, who didn't see them that often.
The murder report is interesting, but I don't think that was his wife's name was it?
Cheers. Chrissie :)
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CECIL ARLINGTON married-
REG 9984 In 1938 OWEN CECIL ARLINGTON
To ELVIN LILLIAN LORNA
At WICKHAM
Sue
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Hi Sue, I don't think I replied to you and your info. My apologies, I was getting a bit sidetracked with all the info.
You and JM and thanks to you also JM, have certainly given me a lot to think about and sort out.
Many thanks and I will keep in touch and any other info you come across will be very appreciated.
cheers Chrissie. :) :) :)
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Many thanks for those kind words... of course you will keep in touch and if I find anything else I will certainly post it on this thread.
Cheers, JM
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Hi Everyone who have tried to assist me :) :D :)
Success at last at tracking down David OWEN and when he came to OZ.
He came, aged 4, with his parents, William & Mary Anne, along with sister Ann and brother Thomas in 1864, landing in Sth. Aust. on the ship TARQUIN.
Now I will have to research the Sth Aust. info. I am just so excited.
Cheers, Chrissie. :D :D :D
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Hi Chrissie,
That's great news
here's a cutting of the passengers on that voyage
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/31842405
13 October 1864 from The South Australian Advertiser
I am sure there's RChatters with good access to Sth Australian records and indexes, so perhaps you could modify your thread's title to read OWEN family arr 1864 SOUTH AUST. .... To do this, go back to your original post on this thread and edit it there ... ;)
Cheers, JM
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Many thanks JM. :) :)
I was just sitting here seeing if I could find anything on Trove and you found it for me.
I did put a whole new post on for Sth. Aust. maybe I should have just edited as you have suggested.
Cheers. Chrissie
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Hi Chrissie,
It was only a thought of mine !
Did you notice that on board that voyage were people with the surname JACKSON !
Edit to add This is that new thread ;)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=545582.new
Cheers, JM