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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Leicestershire => Topic started by: Annie65115 on Friday 22 July 11 10:53 BST (UK)
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Continuing this from a diverson in the Desford/Upton thread. (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,395576.0.html)
My Holylands "appeared" in Market Bosworth pr in the first half of the 18th century and then migrated into Leicester town in the mid1800s. By the turn of the 19-20th centuries some of them were making quite a comfortable living with shops that sold furniture, mangles,sewing machines (Holyland was a sewing machine tradename at the time).
I am 99% certain that my Holylands came to Mkt Bosworth from Desford but I haven't yet found the link.
It's not a common surname and it's not easy to google because all you get is sites relevant to the Holy Land in the middle east!
Do have Holylands in your tree? Please feel free to add to this thread and we can share info, ask questions etc!
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I will add my Holyland notes here:
My Holyland started with Anne Holyland, who married Charles Richards the son of Simon and Elizabeth (nee Upton) Richards. The Holyland - Richards marriage was in the Methodist Chapel in Bardsby in 1824.
Anne was the daughter of John and Judith (nee Parker) Holyland and baptised in Balby 1801
John (the Father) was baptised in Ratby 1770 looks to be the son of a John baptised in Desford 1737
Before that we have a William baptised 1701 and a Thomas 1679 and others, where I have been but a name collector until now, all in Desford.
I have somewhere a photo of a tombstone in Leicestershire with Holylands in the grave, I took this in the 1990s and probably needs to be scanned, but I think it was in South Croxton!
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freereg has 28 baptisms / 25 marriages for Holylands in leics.
Diddy
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I have a copy of the will of Thomas Holyland, yeoman of Desford, proved May 1653. I hoped it might help me link the Desford and Mkt Bosworth branches, but there are still 2 generations inbetween.
He was either a bit self-important or had a sense of humour; his first bequest was for 10 shillings ot be paid to the poor of Desford on St Thomas's day!
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Hi Annie,
I don't have any Holyland's that I know of and I might have thought it would be an easy name to research - but not if the Ratby registers are anything to go by...... ::)
Notes and queries, Volume 23 - By William White = http://www.rootschat.com/links/0edm/
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Hi,
I have Holyland's on my tree, Thomas Holyland came from Blably,he married Elizabeth Rask, son Thomas
born 1779 Blaby married Elizabeth Doubleday, children Theodosia born Cossington, married Thomas Bevan of Syston.Thomas and Elizabeth had 3 children. After the last child Thomas just disappeared.
Can someone please do look up for me
Blaby PR for Holyland's, needing Thomas's 1722 parents please.
Thanks
pcjr
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Hi there!
Excellent thread.
My Mum was called Annette Olive Maud HOLYLAND. Like has been said previously, the family seemed to migrate from Desford/Peckleton to Leicester in the mid 1800's. From what I've found out so far my Great Grandad, Simeon HOLYLAND was a shoe pressman and lived in the Catherine Street are of Leicester in the early 1900's - he stayed in that general area until he died in 1951, having married twice.
His first wife, my Great Grandma was Maud HARNETT - originally born in Wolverhampton. They married in 1915 at Saint Michael All Angels church on Melton Road.
My Grandad was their youngest child, born in 1925, he was called Herald David HOLYLAND. He met my Grandma Maureen Lucy Rosina DOOLAN in her native Colchester in 1944 - he was a sailor based in Essex (from what I know).
My Mum Annette was the first of their 10 children (born 1947), two girls followed by 8 boys. The two girls and 1st son were all born in Colchester - then in 1952 my Grandparents moved up to my Grandad's native Leicester - where the rest of their children were born.
I have more details, but have tried to be concise - but thought this might be of interest to readers. My Mum passed away in January 2014, my Grandma Maureen in 2010. Herald David died in 1990.
All 8 of the Holyland sons are still with us.
I have started an autobiographical site based around photos - it is early days, but you can find it at http://www.essonneimage.com (http://www.essonneimage.com) if of interest.
Regards,
John NELSON.
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I thought when i read this - I've come across Simeon before, although he's not in my tree. Actually on checking, I see that it's Simeon snr father Fulshaw H who has come to my attention before - he was regularly in the newspapers for various wrongdoings and I'm pretty sure he's on either the prison CD or the workhouse one, or both (but that's not to hand this at this moment). Do you have these details and if not, do you want them?
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I thought when i read this - I've come across Simeon before, although he's not in my tree. Actually on checking, I see that it's Simeon snr father Fulshaw H who has come to my attention before - he was regularly in the newspapers for various wrongdoings and I'm pretty sure he's on either the prison CD or the workhouse one, or both (but that's not to hand this at this moment). Do you have these details and if not, do you want them?
I've got 3 Simeons in my tree - three consectutive generations. The last two were Simeon Norman, the last was my Great Uncle - who everyone called Norman. I probably met him, but I don't remember.
I have one record of "larceny" for Fulshaw H... I get the feeling the family was very colourful. If you have any details that'll be very useful and if I can provide anything in return then please feel free to let me know.
My Mum's family was always like a soap opera - whenever I came to see my Grandma, there was always news of who did what to who... Sometimes I was glad I was an only child and of course my surname was different too!
I last saw my Mum's brothers last year for her funeral... 6 of the 8 turned up which was a nice surprise. Of the other 2, one lives in Canada now (the oldest) and the youngest was in hospital. We're not really close - not helped by the fact I've lived in France these last 18 years.
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From the Leic Mercury:
23 Aug 1845: Fulshaw Holyland (+ others) charged with using obscene language - bound over for 2 months.
15 Nov 1851 - Fulshaw Holyland charged with being in the cellar of Messrs Hartopp and Noon's warehouse for an unlawful purpose. (found drunkenly asleep in the cellar!) Sentence 5/- for being drunk or as default put in the stocks for 6 hours. (I didn't know they still used the stocks at this time!)
30 march 1860 - pleaded guilty (with others) to stealing a bottle and a half a pound of sweetmeats (peppermint rock) from a shop in Archdeacon Lane. Holyland's father was called and said that till the last few weeks his son had always been a good lad. Another witness gave Holyland a good character. Sentenced to 1 month's hard labour.
(so clearly dealing with the next generation here!)
11 may 1861 - Charged with leaving his 2 children chargeable to the parish of St Margaret on Nov 29. The children were left in the street by defendant's wife and were in the workhouse 26 days, and 10 of the days the wife and a younger child were also in. Defendant said he had gone to Nottingham to look for work and since been in the workhouse Discharged.
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And there's more
The following from Leic Chronicle:
24 Aug 1867: Fulshaw Holyland the elder and Karan H his wife charged with assaulting Jane H the wife of Fulshaw the younger. A cross warrant accused Jane of assaulting Karan. A longish and rather garbled report - alcohol seems to have been involved!
24 April 1875: Fulshaw H was chargd with refusing to quit the licensed premises of Joseph Bell, Birstall St; fined 21/- or 14 days hard labour.
17 Feb 1877: death on the 10 Feb at Charnwood St, Fulshaw Holyland age 63.
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19 Aug 1876 - Simeon Norman alias Simeon Holyland pleaded guilty to stealing a quantity of apples of the value of 9d at Birstall - fined 5/-, damages 9d, and 15/- costs, or 7 days.
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From the Leic Mercury:
23 Aug 1845: Fulshaw Holyland (+ others) charged with using obscene language - bound over for 2 months.
15 Nov 1851 - Fulshaw Holyland charged with being in the cellar of Messrs Hartopp and Noon's warehouse for an unlawful purpose. (found drunkenly asleep in the cellar!) Sentence 5/- for being drunk or as default put in the stocks for 6 hours. (I didn't know they still used the stocks at this time!)
30 march 1860 - pleaded guilty (with others) to stealing a bottle and a half a pound of sweetmeats (peppermint rock) from a shop in Archdeacon Lane. Holyland's father was called and said that till the last few weeks his son had always been a good lad. Another witness gave Holyland a good character. Sentenced to 1 month's hard labour.
(so clearly dealing with the next generation here!)
11 may 1861 - Charged with leaving his 2 children chargeable to the parish of St Margaret on Nov 29. The children were left in the street by defendant's wife and were in the workhouse 26 days, and 10 of the days the wife and a younger child were also in. Defendant said he had gone to Nottingham to look for work and since been in the workhouse Discharged.
Bloody hell!
Thanks for all that... They were pretty dysfunctional then as a family back in the mid 1800's. Perhaps they had trouble adapting to city life?
It is hilarious now, to read about their antics, but probably far from funny back then. Seems they were a bunch of alcholics. Sad that at one stage Fulshaw's wife decided to abandon her children in the street - I suppose that if he naffed off to Nottingham, she was struggling to cope.
By co-inicidence, last night I found the record of Karan being in the Leicester Union Workhouse.
When I look at this, I couldn't imagine abandoning my own kids in the street... although it is sometimes tempting (joking). ;D
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I have started a group on Facebook (http://"https://www.facebook.com/groups/nelsonbrianttree/") for my immediate family and anyone interested in the following names and places...
Family names: Nelson, Briant, Holyland, Soulette, Timson, Doolan, Fisher, Munson, Harnett & Ford.
Places:
UK: Leicester, Desford, Enderby, Colchester, Wolverhampton, Coventry, Loughborough, Islington (London), Edinburgh.
France: Brantôme, Monsec, Périgueux (Dordogne) & Saint Pons de Thomières (Hérault).
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I have started a group on Facebook (http://"https://www.facebook.com/groups/nelsonbrianttree/") for my immediate family and anyone interested in the following names and places...
Family names: Nelson, Briant, Holyland, Soulette, Timson, Doolan, Fisher, Munson, Harnett & Ford.
Places:
UK: Leicester, Desford, Enderby, Colchester, Wolverhampton, Coventry, Loughborough, Islington (London), Edinburgh.
France: Brantôme, Monsec, Périgueux (Dordogne) & Saint Pons de Thomières (Hérault).
I have since closed my Facebook account and thus this group.
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19 Aug 1876 - Simeon Norman alias Simeon Holyland pleaded guilty to stealing a quantity of apples of the value of 9d at Birstall - fined 5/-, damages 9d, and 15/- costs, or 7 days.
Have since taken out a months subscription at the British Newspaper Archive site - where I've found a few other articles concerning the adventures of the Holylands. :)
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I have the dubious honour of Fulshaw H in my family tree too!
He was brother of my 4xg grandmother, Jane TILLSON nee HOLYLAND. I have sketchy information about this side of the family - I'm not sure that the family Jane married into was much better ;)
I would be interested in hearing any more you know about him and his family!
TreeGirl :)
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I have the dubious honour of Fulshaw H in my family tree too!
He was brother of my 4xg grandmother, Jane TILLSON nee HOLYLAND. I have sketchy information about this side of the family - I'm not sure that the family Jane married into was much better ;)
I would be interested in hearing any more you know about him and his family!
TreeGirl :)
Hi TreeGirl,
I have two Fulshaw Holyland's in my family tree. One 1843-1919 and his father 1816-1877 - they were my 4x & 3x Great Grandfathers.
Although, neither has a Jane Holyland as a sister on my tree (unless I missed her).
The more recent Fulshaw was married to a Jane, although I do not have her maiden name nor date of death. She was born around 1845 in Mountsorrel.
This Fulshaw's father was born in Desford and was the first generation to move to Leicester.
HTH
John.
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I have two Fulshaw Holyland's in my family tree. One 1843-1919 and his father 1816-1877 - they were my 4x & 3x Great Grandfathers.
Although, neither has a Jane Holyland as a sister on my tree (unless I missed her).
The more recent Fulshaw was married to a Jane, although I do not have her maiden name nor date of death. She was born around 1845 in Mountsorrel.
This Fulshaw's father was born in Desford and was the first generation to move to Leicester.
My Jane HOLYLAND was born in Desford around 1811 and married Thomas TILLSON in 1832 and moved to Stoney Stanton. My records show that her father was called William and her mother Hannah JACQUES - although it is a while since I was at the records office and may have that wrong... Am happy for any correction if I've made a mistake :-)
TreeGirl :)
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I've just had a look at the Desford baptisms and can confirm that it shows Jane Holyland christened on 13 Feb 1810, daughter of William and Mary. I do wonder if this is correct though, as I can't see any other baptisms to William and Mary, but there are several of children of William and Hannah.
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I've just had a look at the Desford baptisms and can confirm that it shows Jane Holyland christened on 13 Feb 1810, daughter of William and Mary. I do wonder if this is correct though, as I can't see any other baptisms to William and Mary, but there are several of children of William and Hannah.
This is what I have for William & Hannah HOLYLAND... Please excuse the French names for the months, unfortunately I live in France and even though my OS is in English - the months have come out in French.
http://www.parlonsrosbif.com/familytree/fam572.html
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These are what's on the transcript as births for William and Hannah:
Richard 26 Sept 1806
Mary 9 Aug 1814 (buried 17 Aug 1814)
Falshaw 14. 4 1816
William 17 April 1825
(John, son of W and H, buried 1832 age 20 -- I can't see a baptism for him)
Clearly there are some large gaps here; I wonder if the family moved away for a while then returned to Desford?
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And Thomas Tilson m Jane Holiland on 154 July 1832. The groom was a wheelwright and witnesses were Thomas War--- and mary Ordish
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Christening for Fulshaw and Karehappuch:
Mary Ann Holyland 14 Dec 1839
--- and that seems to be the last mention of the Holyland name in Desford!
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These are what's on the transcript as births for William and Hannah:
Richard 26 Sept 1806
Mary 9 Aug 1814 (buried 17 Aug 1814)
Falshaw 14. 4 1816
William 17 April 1825
(John, son of W and H, buried 1832 age 20 -- I can't see a baptism for him)
Clearly there are some large gaps here; I wonder if the family moved away for a while then returned to Desford?
Thanks for that - I hadn't got the death date of John. I haven't got a baptism record either - just an "about 1812" from someone elses tree... So it could be wrong.
Richard Holyland seems to have died while being transported to Tasmania for theft of livestock - he died in Table Bay, Cape of Good Hope, South Africa on the 12 August 1842 aboard the Waterloo.
More about the event: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterloo_(ship)
The death was recorded in Tasmania records.
I have two trial dates for him:
19 October 1835
17 March 1842
On the first date he was aquitted. On the second, found guilty and held on a Prison Hulk awaiting transportation.
Name Richd Holyland
Age 35
Estimated Birth Year abt 1807
Date Received 13 Apr 1842
Ship Justitia
Place Moored Woolwich
Date Convicted 17 Mar 1842
Place Convicted Leicester
Fulshaw is an odd first name. There was another Fulshaw before the one born in 1816. A previous one shows up born 1747 in Desford. The odd thing is that his mothers maiden name was Fulshaw - Mary FULSHAW (b. 1809 Kirkby Mallory) and married to William HOLYLAND (b. 7th May 1701 Desford). Could the name Fulshaw have come from Mary?
I think there must have been a connection between the Desford and Stoney Stanton Holylands. I have a Selina HOLYLAND (b. 1814 Stoney Stanton d. 1888 Hinckley... although this could be within the "Borough of Hinckley"). Her siblings were all born in Desford, however (with the possible exception of John as we have no baptism record).
As for the dubiousness of the latter Fulshaws - I think the drink and theft of small items was down to desperation. Although comical now, the wave of Holylands that moved from Desford to Leicester must have found themselves living very poor lives in densely crowded slums trying to eek out a living in the same conditions as FWK's.
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Christening for Fulshaw and Karehappuch:
Mary Ann Holyland 14 Dec 1839
--- and that seems to be the last mention of the Holyland name in Desford!
Mary Ann Holyland:
b. Abt 1840 Leicester.
d. January 1907 Leicester.
So I guess the Abt 1840 is wrong in this case - so your date must be the right one.
Her father, Fulshaw, is the last name I have connected to Desford - where he was born. All of his children were either born in Leicester or "Saint Margaret's, Leicester". I have addresses for him and his wife Kerenhappuch for the area facing what is now the bus station... Friday Street is one that springs to mind. Which still exists, even if the houses are all now long gone. When in Leicester I use it as a cut through to Abbey Park. :)
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And Thomas Tilson m Jane Holiland on 154 July 1832. The groom was a wheelwright and witnesses were Thomas War--- and mary Ordish
I have neither of these names on my tree.
John.
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I expect my Holylands came originally from Desford but I can't link to any of the Desford data. My earliest proven Holyland event is John H who married Phyllis Nutting in Carlton by Market Bosworth in 1743. Their first child was Christopher, born the next year, and he obviously died as they had another Christopher several years later. So this must have been an important name for the family, and probably therefore links to the Christopher Holyland who m mary and had children in the 17teens in desford. But I've never found a baptism to prove this.
I have the Desford transcripts because of a different name in my tree.
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The other Fulshaw Holyland has a hint on Ancestry (although at the moment I do not have a records subscription).
Fulshaw Holyland
BIRTH 1843 • St Margarets, Leicestershire, England
DEATH JUN 1919 • Leicester, Leicestershire, England
To me: 3rd great-grandfather
Hint - 1911 Census:
Name Fulshaw Hslyland
Birth 1843 - Leicester, Leicestershire, England
Residence 02 Apr 1911 - Leicester, Leicestershire, England - Age: 68
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I expect my Holylands came originally from Desford but I can't link to any of the Desford data. My earliest proven Holyland event is John H who married Phyllis Nutting in Carlton by Market Bosworth in 1743. Their first child was Christopher, born the next year, and he obviously died as they had another Christopher several years later. So this must have been an important name for the family, and probably therefore links to the Christopher Holyland who m mary and had children in the 17teens in desford. But I've never found a baptism to prove this.
I have the Desford transcripts because of a different name in my tree.
My earliest is a Christopher Hollyland b. 1590 in Desford. I have his father recorded as Henry Hollyland but no date or birth place. Have no record for Christopher's mother either.
I have him down as being married to a Elizabeth Grace - no dates or other details for her either.
I've attached a screen shot of the early part of my tree.
John.
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I've just had a look at the Desford baptisms and can confirm that it shows Jane Holyland christened on 13 Feb 1810, daughter of William and Mary. I do wonder if this is correct though, as I can't see any other baptisms to William and Mary, but there are several of children of William and Hannah.
This is what I have for William & Hannah HOLYLAND...
http://www.parlonsrosbif.com/familytree/fam572.html
My Jane (married to Thomas) had Elizabeth TILLSON, who then married John RILEY, son of John RILEY and Hannah ADCOCK and relation to Thomas RILEY who married Ann HOLYLAND.
I had made the link that Jane and Ann were sisters and both married and moved to Stoney Stanton. That would mean that my 3xg grandparents were related in some way - cousins once removed maybe?! However, I'm now not sure!
My head is spinning with Holylands/Rileys/Tillsons and different generations!!
TreeGirl :)
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I've just had a look at the Desford baptisms and can confirm that it shows Jane Holyland christened on 13 Feb 1810, daughter of William and Mary. I do wonder if this is correct though, as I can't see any other baptisms to William and Mary, but there are several of children of William and Hannah.
This is what I have for William & Hannah HOLYLAND...
http://www.parlonsrosbif.com/familytree/fam572.html
My Jane (married to Thomas) had Elizabeth TILLSON, who then married John RILEY, son of John RILEY and Hannah ADCOCK and relation to Thomas RILEY who married Ann HOLYLAND.
I had made the link that Jane and Ann were sisters and both married and moved to Stoney Stanton. That would mean that my 3xg grandparents were related in some way - cousins once removed maybe?! However, I'm now not sure!
My head is spinning with Holylands/Rileys/Tillsons and different generations!!
TreeGirl :)
Seems there was a concentration of Holylands in Stoney Stanton and also Desford.
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With 3 generations of Simeon's in my Holyland family tree, I was wondering if there was a Jewish connection? My Grandad was named Herald David Holyland and my Grandma was always on about the fact his family was Jewish.
So far I've found no evidence of a Jewish connection in the Holyland family.
John.
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I have William Holyland and Mary Fulshaw in my tree. However, their offspring is John, born in Desford 1738 and is married to Mary Cooper in Nov 1762 in Hugglescote and Donnington.
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I have William Holyland and Mary Fulshaw in my tree. However, their offspring is John, born in Desford 1738 and is married to Mary Cooper in Nov 1762 in Hugglescote and Donnington.
I have the same:
John HOLYLAND
1738–1782
Birth 1738 • Desford Leicestershire England
Death ABT 1782
Although as far as...
Fulshaw Holyland
1843–1919
Birth 1843 • Saint Margarets, Leicester, Leicestershire.
Death JUNE 1919 • Leicester, Leicestershire, England.
...I am related to this family in name only. Fulshaw adopted my 2 x GGF Simeon Norman around 1863, who became Simeon Norman Holyland. The Holyland name was adopted from that time onwards. There were two other Simeon Norman Holyland's after this one - my GGF and my Great Uncle (brother of my Grandad).
My Mum was Annette Olive Maud Holyland.
John.
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I'll see your 3 Simeons and raise you another half a dozen. lol
In my family (no connection to the Holylands) Simeon is a very common name e.g, my uncle, grandfather and gt grandfather. My gt gt gt grandmother's brother who appears to have died in childhood is the first Simeon on my tree.
Simeon is the man in the temple when Joseph and Mary first take Jesus to the temple when days old. The name is in the new testament. It is a Jewish name but when you look at the names in the bible there's so many names taken from there now in common usage it may not mean a Jewish background.
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I'll see your 3 Simeons and raise you another half a dozen. lol
In my family (no connection to the Holylands) Simeon is a very common name e.g, my uncle, grandfather and gt grandfather. My gt gt gt grandmother's brother who appears to have died in childhood is the first Simeon on my tree.
Simeon is the man in the temple when Joseph and Mary first take Jesus to the temple when days old. The name is in the new testament. It is a Jewish name but when you look at the names in the bible there's so many names taken from there now in common usage it may not mean a Jewish background.
hehehe I'll see you...
There seemed to be some interesting names back in the 1800's. My 2 Grt Grandfathers Simeon were mentioned as being Simon in their military records.
My Grandad Holyland's first names were Herald David. Nobody ever called him Herald, I just remember him as being David or "Day".
The only religious connection i've found so far on my tree, was on my Dad's side and the Nelson family. The brother of my 3 x Great Grandfather, Aaron Nelson, became a Mormon who emigrated to Utah in the US in the early 1860's.
I find this quite at odds with my Dad, who was most definately not religious.
John.
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Quote from John in France.
Fulshaw Holyland
1843–1919
"Birth 1843 • Saint Margarets, Leicester, Leicestershire.
Death JUNE 1919 • Leicester, Leicestershire, England.
...I am related to this family in name only. Fulshaw adopted my 2 x GGF Simeon Norman around 1863, who became Simeon Norman Holyland. The Holyland name was adopted from that time onwards. There were two other Simeon Norman Holyland's after this one - my GGF and my Great Uncle (brother of my Grandad).
My Mum was Annette Olive Maud Holyland.
John."
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Have you any other connections to Parker, Richards or White in the area east of Leicester? Any connections to Goodman?
John
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Quote from John in France.
Fulshaw Holyland
1843–1919
"Birth 1843 • Saint Margarets, Leicester, Leicestershire.
Death JUNE 1919 • Leicester, Leicestershire, England.
...I am related to this family in name only. Fulshaw adopted my 2 x GGF Simeon Norman around 1863, who became Simeon Norman Holyland. The Holyland name was adopted from that time onwards. There were two other Simeon Norman Holyland's after this one - my GGF and my Great Uncle (brother of my Grandad).
My Mum was Annette Olive Maud Holyland.
John."
[/i]
Have you any other connections to Parker, Richards or White in the area east of Leicester? Any connections to Goodman?
John
Kerenhappuch Parker
1819–1892
Birth 1819 • Leicestershire, England
Death JANUARY 1892 • Leicester, Leicestershire, England
Who was married to Fulshaw Holyland (1816-1877) - he was father of Fulshaw Jnr, who adopted my 2 x Grt Gdad.
There are Whites in other parts of my family, but not connected to the Holyland tree.
The only other name left that is connected is Goodman:
Mary Ann Goodman
1835–1913
Birth 1835 • Wigston, Leicestershire, England
Death JANUARY 1913 • Lutterworth, Leicestershire, England
Married to John Norman (1832-1883).
Not 100% certain about the Norman family connection here to my direct ancestor Jane Norman (who later married Fulshaw Jnr - as above).
If the Norman connection is right, John Norman would have been Jane's older brother.
I have their parents as being.
James Norman
1803–1859
Birth 1803 • Seagrave, Leicestershire, England
Death 1859 • Leicestershire, England
and
Frances Holyland or Holiland
1811–1864
Birth 30 JAN 1811 • Barsby or Ashby Folville, Leicestershire, England
Death OCTOBER 1864 • Leicester, Leicestershire, England
I suspect Frances was perhaps a cousin of Fulshaw's? It seems odd to have this surname connection considering that their daughter married someone else called Holyland!
Mary Ann Goodman's parents are down as being James & Ann Goodman on my tree.
HTH
John.
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I was intrigued to read this thread about the Hollyland family in Desford, for I have been trying to sort out my connections for years.
I am descended from an Eleanor Hollyland who married an Andrew Halford in 1733 by licence at Polesworth . This indicates a wealthy family, and Andrew was living in Wilne, Derbyshire at the time, and I believe that Eleanor was baptised at Fenny Drayton in 1722, her parents being John and Ann Holiland. Fenny Drayton is not far from Polesworth.
The interesting point here is that if my research is correct, Eleanor would have only been about age 12 at the time of marriage. The legal age for marriage at that time was age 12 for girls and age 14 for boys. There were no children that I can find for this marriage until 1737, but the family lived in Desford.
The Halfords were also prominent in Desford and two of descendants married into the Bailey family in Desford and were bakers, the Halfords being Millers. Eventually the Baileys also ran the pub and butchers and one was a school teacher . One branch of the Baileys went to Melton Mowbray and helped establish the Melton Mowbray Pork Pie.
My grandfather was a Bailey and ran a Bakers shop in Abbey Street, Nuneaton in the 1900's.
If anyone has any information on the early Holilands ( I do have copies of some of the Wills) I would be very interested.
Thanks
C
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I was intrigued to read this thread about the Hollyland family in Desford, for I have been trying to sort out my connections for years.
I am descended from an Eleanor Hollyland who married an Andrew Halford in 1733 by licence at Polesworth . This indicates a wealthy family, and Andrew was living in Wilne, Derbyshire at the time, and I believe that Eleanor was baptised at Fenny Drayton in 1722, her parents being John and Ann Holiland. Fenny Drayton is not far from Polesworth.
The interesting point here is that if my research is correct, Eleanor would have only been about age 12 at the time of marriage. The legal age for marriage at that time was age 12 for girls and age 14 for boys. There were no children that I can find for this marriage until 1737, but the family lived in Desford.
The Halfords were also prominent in Desford and two of descendants married into the Bailey family in Desford and were bakers, the Halfords being Millers. Eventually the Baileys also ran the pub and butchers and one was a school teacher . One branch of the Baileys went to Melton Mowbray and helped establish the Melton Mowbray Pork Pie.
My grandfather was a Bailey and ran a Bakers shop in Abbey Street, Nuneaton in the 1900's.
If anyone has any information on the early Holilands ( I do have copies of some of the Wills) I would be very interested.
Thanks
C
Last year I was in touch with Desford Parish Council, where a really helpful lady sent me a hand written family tree for Desford Holylands/Holilands. If you can PM me, I'll email it to you - if that'll be of help.
It was through this information that I realised that my Holylands are not from Desford. In fact it is a bit intriguing as I have a Frances Holiland (maiden name) who had a daughter Jane Norman. Both of these were recorded in Barsby and Jane ended up in Rothley Workhouse (in Mountsorrell). There she gave birth to a son in 1860 to father unknown. The son was called Simeon Norman, who is my Great 2 times Grandfather on my Mum's side.
Jane met a Fulshaw Holyland (who was from descended from the Desford Holylands/Holilands) and married him in Leicester in 1863. Janes son was then known as Simeon Norman Holyland. This is the first time this surname was recorded for my branch of the family. My Mum was a Holyland too.
So we have this odd situation of Jane being born to a Holiland/Holyland and then marrying a Holiland/Holyland.
From what I know she later left Fulshaw (there is a newpaper article in the 1870's that gives an impression that her relationship with Fulshaw and his family in Leicester was a drunken violent one). After a gap, Jane turns up in Nottingham - having left Simeon behind. She remarries and eventually dies in Nottingham Asylum in 1902... Simeon (who had been a soldier) passed away in the same year.
Let me know if I can help any further.
Regards,
John Nelson.
(Son of Annette Holyland).
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John,
Many thanks.
I am trying to find out anything about John Holyland who I think was born about 1698,and was baptised in Desford on 1 Jan 1699 . His father was Henry, and his wife was Ann. I know that there are Henrys mentioned in some of the Wills at around that time, but to link them is obviously difficult.
I have to post this because I have not made enough posts to send you a PM yet.
You will know what my NdeP means.
C
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John,
Many thanks.
I am trying to find out anything about John Holyland who I think was born about 1698,and was baptised in Desford on 1 Jan 1699 . His father was Henry, and his wife was Ann. I know that there are Henrys mentioned in some of the Wills at around that time, but to link them is obviously difficult.
I have to post this because I have not made enough posts to send you a PM yet.
You will know what my NdeP means.
C
Hi,
Could you try contacting me at john.lr.nelson(at)gmail.com ?
Cheers,
John.
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Do you have any more details of your John? I have a John Holyland marrying in the market Bosworth area in the 1740s and have never been able to find a baptisms for him.
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I Know very little about Holyland post 1720's. I will see what I can find
However I have a Charlotte Upton 1830-1894. Desford in my tree. There are some interesting stories about her children if that is of interest to you.
Regards
C
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Charlotte Upton is in my tree too! Her brother was my ancestor, and her neice married a Holyland --- I don't have any info on Charlotte but I doubt her side of the family could be much more scurrilous than her brother!! Do tell!
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Hi ! The first Holliland to appear in my tree was Eleanor Holliland (baptised 6/3/1688 in Desford;d. 20/8/1780 also Desford). She married Andrew Halford from Little Bowden and appears to have married on 22/3/1732 in Poleworth, Warwks. I'm not convinced this last is correct.
Her father was Thomas Holliland.
I would be grateful if you could provide details of the will of Thomas Holyland you mentioned if possible. Quite a tranch of my family lived in Desford, a fact I onlt became aware of having moved to Cornwall. I used to travel daily through Desford on the way to the Dixie Grammar School, Market Bosworth, in the 60s. Regards.
Tim
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The wills are all available through FindMyPast. You can join up for month at s time if you don't want to go the whole hog.
(Can't give you any more than that as I'm away from home at the moment).
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Hi, Im also linked with the Holylands.
My 5th Grt Grandmother was Barbara/Barbery Holyland she married Charles Frearson/Freeson 1813 Desford, Leicestershire.
I have Barbara as being bapt 11 Oct 1796 Desford, Leicestershire daughter of Thomas Holyland b.1758 Market Bosworth? and Sarah Crowson/Croson I think.
Interestingly though I found a Will of a Thomas Holyland 1803 and he bequeaths some money to his Niece Barbery Holyland daughter of his brother *Fulcher/Fulsher Holyland?.
There is no other bapts I can see of a Barbara/Barbery...So was my 5th grt grandmother daughter of Thomas like the bapt record says or of this Fulcher/Fulsher Holyland?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Hi, Im also linked with the Holylands.
My 5th Grt Grandmother was Barbara/Barbery Holyland she married Charles Frearson/Freeson 1813 Desford, Leicestershire.
I have Barbara as being bapt 11 Oct 1796 Desford, Leicestershire daughter of Thomas Holyland b.1758 Market Bosworth? and Sarah Crowson/Croson I think.
Interestingly though I found a Will of a Thomas Holyland 1803 and he bequeaths some money to his Niece Barbery Holyland daughter of his brother *Fulcher/Fulsher Holyland?.
There is no other bapts I can see of a Barbara/Barbery...So was my 5th grt grandmother daughter of Thomas like the bapt record says or of this Fulcher/Fulsher Holyland?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Perhaps Fulshaw? My Mum's maiden name was Holyland, however I have since found this was a name adopted in 1863, when a Fulshaw Holyland adopted my 2 x Great Grandfather, born Simeon Norman... who then became known as Simeon Norman Holyland.
Fulshaw's father was another Fulshaw. His father was called William, born in Desford in 1783. The Fulshaw name crops up as a first name here and there in the family, but there was also a family linked to the Holylands also called Fulshaw - through Mary Fulshaw, born in Kirkby Mallory in 1709. She was William Holyland's Grandmother.
As for the Holyland name, around the 1600's it was also spelt Holiland.
Unfortunately, although my Mum's family are Holylands - there is no connection to those in Desford due to the bloodline stopping for us at 1863.
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Thank you for your reply.
Going by what you say it could very well be Fulshaw, I know the will definitely says Fulcher/Fulsher but I assume whoever wrote it heard the name Fulshaw and perhaps wrote how they heard it.
Its strange how the will lists a Barbery/Barbara as Fulshaws daughter and not Thomas as the bapt record says.
I had Thomas as bapt 1758 Market Bosworth, Leicestershire but I've just seen a bapt record for a Fulshaw Holyland 1747 Desford, Leicestershire parents as William and Mary. Thomas's parents seem to be John and Felis (I assume Philis)?
I cant find any burials or Wills for a Fulshaw on FindMyPast, the only marriage is a Fulshaw Holyland in 1839.
*Edit*
I have just found a tree which lists this Fulshaw was married to a Barbara Beck
On the tree it lists him as Fulcher/Fulshaw Holyland and he is living and dies in London but born 1747 Desford, It also lists Barbara as dying whilst giving birth 1783 so if its true couldn't be my barbaras mother.
Fulcher then goes onto marry a Jane Gees in 1798, abt 3 years after my Barbara is born.
Is it possible my barbara was illegitimate and left for Thomas and Sarah to baptise and bring up when perhaps Fulshaw returned to Desford in between marriages?
*Edit*
In the will Thomas also lists his brother Richard Holyland. I've found the bapt for Richard 1745 Desford parents William and Mary Fulshaw same parents as Fulsher/Fulshaw Holyland but the only record for a Thomas I can see lists different parents, I think more digging is in order.
*Edit*
Just found a bapt record for a Barbara Eleanor Holyland Mar 1782 London daughter of Fulsher Holyland and Barbara.
I'm now wondering if there was actually 2 Barbaras one born Desford and one daughter of Fulshaw and the Will was for Fulshaws daughter not my Barbara.
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My transcription of Desford records does have a Barbara Holyland bapt 11 Oct 1796, parents Thomas and Sarah, with a subsequent public baptism on 25 December.
I believe this is a different Thomas from the one bapt in Market Bosworth in 1758. The Mkt B Thomas married Eleanor Allin and moved into Leicester town some time after 1797; I've no record of him living in Desford.
My Desford transciption has the marriage of Charles Freeson and Barbara Holland (NB not Holyland) in 1813. This could be a spelling or transcription error of course.
I think it likely that there were 2 Barbaras!
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Thank you for your reply Annie.
The records I've seen on FindMyPast and Ancestry for the marriage list Barbara as Holliland, so perhaps the name might be Holland like you say, Ill do some more digging and see if a Thomas and a Sarah Holland appear in or around Desford.
*Ive looked at the actual record and looks to have been definitely wrote Holliland
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Come across a Thomas Holyland bapt 1 Apr 1776 Ratby, Leicestershire. Parents as John and Mary,
Possibly could be barbaras father but that would make him 17 yrs old at his marriage in 1793 and Sarah Crowson would be 27.
There is a Thomas Holland who marries Sarah Hawkins 18 May 1789 Leicester St Margarets.
Also a Thomas Hollyland bapt 20 Jul 1760 Blaby son of Thomas and Elizabeth.
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Found a bapt record for a Thomas Holyland 26 Dec 1732 Desford son of William and Mary.
This would tie in with his will in 1803 Desford as it gives the same parents of his brothers Fulshaw and Richard listed in the will.
But ages dont match up unless he married and had a child in his 60s so there must be another generation perhaps?
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I've got lots of jottings about Holylands and they are all rather confusing. but I can see that William H, a butcher of Desford, left his will in 1762 naming his sons Thomas, William, Richard, John and Fulshaw, and his daughters Jane Burgesse and Mary Sharpe. Not sure that that gets us anywhere but I offer it as a potential piece in the jigsaw!
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I've got lots of jottings about Holylands and they are all rather confusing. but I can see that William H, a butcher of Desford, left his will in 1762 naming his sons Thomas, William, Richard, John and Fulshaw, and his daughters Jane Burgesse and Mary Sharpe. Not sure that that gets us anywhere but I offer it as a potential piece in the jigsaw!
:o ::) ;D
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And (also from wills), that William (d 1762) seems to have had a brother Thomas (also a butcher in Desford), a brother John, a baker in Dunton, and a brother Christopher of Market Bosworth, who was a publican.
Then there was another William who was a butcher and farmer in Desford, who had a brother Richarrd, also a butcher, and whose will was dated 1788;
I don't seem to have much about the next generation in Desford, probably because my lot had left there by then.
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And (also from wills), that William (d 1762) seems to have had a brother Thomas (also a butcher in Desford), a brother John, a baker in Dunton, and a brother Christopher of Market Bosworth, who was a publican.
Then there was another William who was a butcher and farmer in Desford, who had a brother Richarrd, also a butcher, and whose will was dated 1788;
I don't seem to have much about the next generation in Desford, probably because my lot had left there by then.
I suppose my interest in the Desford Holyland's is a bit superficial, as for my line, the family name was adopted in 1863 through Fulshaw Holyland (b. Saint Margarets', Leicester 1843 d. Leicester Union Workhouse on Swain Street in 1919). His father (another) Fulshaw (b Leicester 1816 d Charnwood Street, Leicester 1877) had parents who were from Desford. William Holyland (1783-1857) and Hannah née Jacques 1782-1857). The parents were both born in the village and also died there. So they must have come to Leicester for some reason, had Fulshaw, then returned back later in life. So I suppose that was the earliest Leicester connection where my adopted family "line" was concerned.
The other odd thing concerning Fulshaw (1843-1919). As I have perhaps mentioned before, he adopted my 2 x Great Grandfather Simeon Norman (1860-1902) around 1863. I don't know if this was an official adoption as in a later newspaper article where Simeon was up in front of the magistrates for having stolen from a shop, he is listed as Simeon Norman "alias" Holyland. Futhermore, Simeons' mother Jane Norman also has a Holyland connection, in that her mother Frances' maiden name was Holyland or Holiland. Frances came from Ashby Folville.
So Jane's hubby to all intense and purposes had the same family name as her mother(!)
I also get the impression that Jane probably went with Fulshaw so she could get out of Mountsorrel workhouse... where she was born in 1844.
John.
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Hi,
I have Holyland's on my tree, Thomas Holyland came from Blably,he married Elizabeth Rask, son Thomas
born 1779 Blaby married Elizabeth Doubleday, children Theodosia born Cossington, married Thomas Bevan of Syston.Thomas and Elizabeth had 3 children. After the last child Thomas just disappeared.
Can someone please do look up for me
Blaby PR for Holyland's, needing Thomas's 1722 parents please.
Thanks
Hi pcjr
I have just found this post , is there anyway I can chat with you as I am currently researching my family and have come to the same point as you did/have
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Hi Ian
I don't suppose you have any info on the Thomas Holyland bapt 1760 blaby, son of Thomas and Elizabeth? I think this could be my Thomas who married Sarah Croson/Crowson in desford 1793.
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Hi fenboy
Can I come back to you tomorrow...there were two thomas's
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Sorry. The Thomas Holyland who was bapt Blaby 9 Jun: 1760 (my direct ancestor) married twice – Mary Brown 18 July:1784 (2 children) buried 17 Nov: 1802 and Mary Kenney 17 Jan: 1803 (5 children) – all at Blaby.
Hope that helps
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Hello,
Haven't been on this thread for a while.
With the wife of a distant Holyland cousin in NZ, we have figured out that the Holyland name, for our line, being "adopted" in 1863 (see previous entries on this thread) via Fulshaw Holyland -> Simeon Norman (Holyland) isn't as simple as we thought.
Simeon Norman was born in 1860 to mother Jane Norman. Her mother was Frances Norman Nee Holiland/Holyland b. 1811 in Barsby, Leicestershire.
Frances' parents I have as:
John Holyland b. 1770 - Ratby.
Judith Holyland Nee Parker b. 1770 - Queniborough.
The odd thing is that Frances appears to be a Holyland and not a "Holiland" (as mentioned on her marriage record).
Back to Fulshaw Holyland (1843-1919) - who married Frances' daughter Jane Norman and adopted little Simeon Norman (1860-1902) in 1863. Simeon became Simeon Norman Holyland thereafter (not sure this was an "official" adoption). Simeon was my 2 x GGD.
Fulshaw Holyland is related to John Holyland through his father, also, Fulshaw Holyland (1814-1877). Fulshaw Snr's father being William Holyland (1783-1857). William Holyland is the brother of aforementioned John Holyland b.1770.
So this John Holyland is my 5th GGD through being the father of Frances. But he is also Fulshaw Holyland Jnr's Great Uncle. So I have this strange situation of Fulshaw Jnr marrying my 3 x Great Grandma and adopting my 2 x GGD.
This is probably not 100% concrete - but it is pointing to me having a bloodline to the Desford Holylands. Previously I thought I wasn't related to the "Holyland's" at all, as Simeon was actually born to father unknown.
I think there must have been some strange goings on in the family...
And (also from wills), that William (d 1762) seems to have had a brother Thomas (also a butcher in Desford), a brother John, a baker in Dunton, and a brother Christopher of Market Bosworth, who was a publican.
Then there was another William who was a butcher and farmer in Desford, who had a brother Richarrd, also a butcher, and whose will was dated 1788;
I don't seem to have much about the next generation in Desford, probably because my lot had left there by then.
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Thooper fly, I'm not too sure about your lines being as linked as you think.
Fulshaw's parents are listed as William and Hannnah nee Jakes. But I can't find any baptisms that fit the suggested age on the census for William. Furthermore, on the 1851 census it says he was born in Reading, Berkshire! That seems a bit left-field --unless that's truly what he said!
There is the marriage earlier of William H and Mary Fulshaw; they were the parents of the older Fulshaw/Fulcher, b in Desford in 1748. He went to London, as did other Holylands; I know of several Holylands from the Leicester branches who ended up there. Using the Fulshaw name again would suggest to me that your Fulshaw descends from that same line, or one of the lines close to it (I know, from documents, that Leic and London cousins were in contact; and the widow of one of Fulshaw's cousins named him as her executor for example).
What do you think?
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Errr... am I allowed to go and face the wall to think about it for a bit? ;D
Thooper fly, I'm not too sure about your lines being as linked as you think.
Fulshaw's parents are listed as William and Hannnah nee Jakes. But I can't find any baptisms that fit the suggested age on the census for William. Furthermore, on the 1851 census it says he was born in Reading, Berkshire! That seems a bit left-field --unless that's truly what he said!
There is the marriage earlier of William H and Mary Fulshaw; they were the parents of the older Fulshaw/Fulcher, b in Desford in 1748. He went to London, as did other Holylands; I know of several Holylands from the Leicester branches who ended up there. Using the Fulshaw name again would suggest to me that your Fulshaw descends from that same line, or one of the lines close to it (I know, from documents, that Leic and London cousins were in contact; and the widow of one of Fulshaw's cousins named him as her executor for example).
What do you think?
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Have come away from the Dragons Den wall and have finally got around to looking at my tree.
The 1851 "William Hobyland" census does supposedly put a spanner in the works.
However, I have my 4 x Great Grandma Frances Holiland (also mentioned elsewhere as being Holyland) born 1811 in Barsby. She married a James Norman. Their daughter Jane Norman had a son to father unknown (Simeon Norman) in 1860 at Rothley Workhouse. In 1863 she married Fulshaw Holyland Jnr (1843-1919). Little Simeon became Simeon Norman Holyland.
The above information is correct as far as I can see.
I have Frances' parents as:
John Holyland
Birth 1770 • Ratby Leicestershire
and
Judith Parker
Birth ABT 27 MAY 1770 • Queninborough, Leicestershire, England
This part is perhaps a bit shaky. But it is odd that we have Frances being a Holyland and her daughter ending up marrying a Holyland. From later newspaper reports, it appears their marriage wasn't a happy one. She ended up leaving Fulshaw & Simeon sometime between 1871 & 1884 - when she turns up in Nottingham.
Meanwhile, Fulshaw is recorded as being in the military in 1881. He fathers children with his "lodger" Elizabeth Gee - the first one being Harry Gee Holyland in 1885. Elizabeth already had children from a previous relationship.
From the censuses & certificates I have... In 1881 - Fulshaw is listed as a widdower. Elizabeth Gee as a "boarder" and the 4 Gee children are listed as sons/daughters of the head : Fulshaw. So it appears Jane has been wiped from Fulshaws life.
Later on, Jane remarries in Nottingham in 1884. On the marriage certificate I have she lies about her age (making herself younger for her new husband) and also lists herself as a widow. Her father is mentioned as being James Norman (deceased) - which fits in correctly.
A string of strange situations.
I think increasingly that the marriage between Fulshaw Holyland and Jane Norman was one of convenience. Somehow there must be a link between Frances & Fulshaw. Even if I have got my link wrong - I am of the opinion that something fishy has gone on, as is my distant cousin in NZ who is related to Simeon Norman Holyland's sister Charlotte Norman Holyland.
The Norman surname came from Jane, but by the time my Great Uncle was born in 1919 the "Norman" had become a middle name. His name was also Simeon Norman (the 3rd generation of Simeon Normans) - but he was known in my family as Uncle Norman!!!
John.
Thooper fly, I'm not too sure about your lines being as linked as you think.
Fulshaw's parents are listed as William and Hannnah nee Jakes. But I can't find any baptisms that fit the suggested age on the census for William. Furthermore, on the 1851 census it says he was born in Reading, Berkshire! That seems a bit left-field --unless that's truly what he said!
There is the marriage earlier of William H and Mary Fulshaw; they were the parents of the older Fulshaw/Fulcher, b in Desford in 1748. He went to London, as did other Holylands; I know of several Holylands from the Leicester branches who ended up there. Using the Fulshaw name again would suggest to me that your Fulshaw descends from that same line, or one of the lines close to it (I know, from documents, that Leic and London cousins were in contact; and the widow of one of Fulshaw's cousins named him as her executor for example).
What do you think?
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My great great grandfather Thomas Lant married Ann Holyland in 1863; I have her parents as Thomas Holyland and Harriet Mooring. But not sure
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Thomas Holyland and Harriet Mooring had 5 children, as far as I know, including Ann, born 14 June 1844 in the Market Bosworth reg district.
The family lived in Cadeby/Osbaston, and I think that Ann married William Poyser in Cadeby in 1867. subsequent censuses match Ann Poyser's age and POB with this Ann Holyland.
In the 1871 census, Ann Lant gives her birthplace as Leicester, which I'd take to mean Leicester town. Do you have her marriage cert?
Edited to add: Ann LANT age 33 was buried at Welford Rd in 1877; is this the right Ann? Because what's interesting is that she shares a grave with several people with the surname HOLLAND (not Holyland!) -- any misspellings going on?
Further edited -- looking at the GRO records, the mmn in some of the birth registrations was Holland, in others, Holyland.
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Annie65115,
Ann Lant (Holyland) did die in 1877 on 1st March, aged 33.
The marriage certificate (05/09/1863) has Ann as 19 years old, so 14 years on she dies at 33. Her fathers name on the marriage certificate is Peter Holyland (deceased) and that is where I started to worry because there never was (as far as I am aware) a Peter Holyland. As he was deceased did she know her father.
Now I have a birth certificate for a Ann Holyland born 4 June 1845, born to Ann Holyland, no fathers name. Born in Thurlaston, Leicestershire.
I also have a birth certificate for Anne Holyland born 14 June 1844 showing Thomas and Harriett as the parents. Born in Atherstone, Leicestershire. This one would tie up with the age at marriage.
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What occupation did she give for “peter holiland”?
If she was Thomas and Harriet’s daughter, why would she give her father as Peter?
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It looks like ‘malter’, but not easy to read.
As I said her father was deceased and maybe she didn’t remember him OR she was illegitimate and no father was named? Wanted to be able to give a name so made one up?
I gave up on the Holyland name a few years ago but feel enthused again!
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I think your Ann was the daughter of Peter HOLLAND, maltster. I don't know why the Holyland name was used as, so far as I can see, this Holland family had always been Holland.
I'm sending you a PM with finer details, Snorbins, rather than clog up this thread.
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https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=822988.0
just to let anyone interested know that I've also started a "blog" re Holyland history:
https://holylandons.blogspot.com/
it's early days yet but I plan to keep it expanding!
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I have another line of Holylands.
Mary Holyland marries William Sharp Jr. 1761 Desford, Leicestershire.
She is the daughter of William Holyland, Butcher 1701-1762 and a Mary Fulshaw (Daughter of Thomas Fulshaw of Kirkby Mallory and Jane Freer).
Anyone have this Line researched?
William Holyland baptised 1701 Desford. Son of Thomas Holyland ?-1715 and a Frances ?-1720.
I think Williams brother Thomas has a will 1730 as he mentions his brother William Holyland, Butcher.
Who was Thomas Holyland Sr? Son of a Thomas Holyland and Mary Abney?
A John Price, Yeoman, of Bardon Park, Leicestershire writes a will in 1722 and mentions his 2 nephews. Thomas Holyland, Butcher and Christopher Holyland, Framework Knitter of Desford. He also mentions a Niece Hannah Holyland. John Price is quite substantially wealthy.
I wonder if the Frances married to Thomas Holyland is a Frances Price, sister of John?
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I can only think that perhaps the nephews and Nieces Thomas, Christopher and Hannah are these -
Thomas Holyland, bapt 1687 Desford. Son of Thomas Holyland. Married Mary Smith 1727 Desford and then Sarah Glover 1729 Desford. Has a Will 1730 Desford (Mentions Brothers William and Christopher but also a brother John? I cant see a baptism for John but his burial is 1785 Dunton Bassett with a birthdate of 1703, He marries Mary Boddington 1728 Desford)
Christopher Holyland, bapt 1691 Desford. Son of Thomas Holyland. Married Mary Foster of Derby, 1712. 2nd wife is Henrietta Groves daughter of Rev Gregory Groves, Married 1729 Market Bosworth. Has a Will 1738 Market Bosworth.
Hannah Holyland, bapt 1698 Desford. Daughter of Thomas Holyland. Possibly married Jonathan Gibson at Markfield 1723. Buried 1732 Ibstock.
Although I wonder why William Holyland, bapt 1701 Desford. Son of Thomas and Frances was not mentioned in the will of John Price.
I note that before 1701 the rector was not writing the mothers name on the baptisms but 1701 and after the handwriting changes and mothers are now written on the baptisms.
Did Thomas and Frances baptise these children?
In 1676, an Elizabeth was baptised to a 'Thomas Holyland, Junior' This is the only baptism I can see of a Thomas styled like this which means there was an older Thomas Holyland alive in the village at that time. Is Thomas Holyland Jr the same as the Thomas baptising in the 1680s?
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Thanks for your input here - I shall definitely look into the Price connection! he name isn't anywhere on my copious Holyland spreadsheets so atthis moment I don't know how it fits together.
I've found it very difficult to untangle the Holylands back into the 1600s and most of it has had to be "best guess". There are mentions of Thomas snr and jnr in the Desford registers at other times and I suspect that someone who had been at one time, Thomas jnr, over the years became Thomas Snr -- if you see what I mean! In brief, I agree with you re the father of Thomas, William, Christopher, John, Hannah (and others). I think that he was Thomas jnr, baptising children with 2+ different wives over a long period of time. His father was also Thomas, hence the "jnr" suffix. I've asumed that the burial in 1715 was the older Thomas (bapt 1648/9) as it's stated to be "Thomas snr" but I can't be sure about that.
I've got my head in a tangle over these famlies before now but I will try to explain what I've got, and why I've reached the conclusions I have, if you want to drop me a pm.
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OK, at a quick glance, here's a theory:
Thomas, Christopher, William, John, Hannah (and others) were the children of Thomas Holliland bapt 1648/9. Thomas b 1648 was the son of yet another Thomas -- so "Thomas jnr".
So Thomas jnr had a child, Elizabeth, in 1676. Then Ann, the wife of Thomas jnr, was buried in 1678; so obviously he must have remarried. But as you know, the registers are useless when it comes to the names of wives and mothers!
However, by 1684 he was having more children-- Ann, Thomas, Ellen, Christopher, William (this William died age 3).
There's a burial for Ann, wife of Thomas H in early 1695/6. Was this Thomas jnr's wife? or his mother?
Then Thomas baptises another daughter Ann in March 1696, and Hanna in 1698.
William was bapt in 1701 to Thomas and Frances; no bapt found for John but his death suggests a yob of 1702.
Maybe the brothers Thomas and Christpher, plus sister Hannah, all shared the same mother. If she then died and Thomas ("jnr" -the father of this lot - there were too many Thomases in this family!) remarried Frances ---- that would explain the 3 older children being the neices/nephews of John Price, and the 2 younger ones not then benefitting from his will.
Just a theory, and I don't have records or marriages, deaths etc to back this up.
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I have now set up a Holyland facebook group, for anyone with an interest in the surname. Please PM me if you want the link, or search on FB for "Holyland surname".
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I have another Holyland in my tree.
My 8th Great Grandfather.
William Holyland, Grasier, of Little Glen, Leicestershire. c1720-1794
William married Anne Boswell, 1744 Aylestone.
I descend from his daughter Jane who married Benjamin Johnson of Countesthorpe.
Anyone have this line or any info if it connects to the Desford Holylands?
He might be son of a Thomas Holyland and Margaret who baptise a son in Aylestone 1721.
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I think likely the son of Thomas Holyland and Margaret Halford who marry in Newton Harcourt 1712. Both given of Little Glen and Newton.
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It appears that Thomas Holyland of Little Glen (Glen Parva) is the son of William Holyland Sr, who dies in 1710 Desford.
Thomas Holyland marries Margaret Halford, 1712, Newton Harcourt. Thomas is aged around 30 and Margaret aged around 29.
Thomas Holyland bapt 1679 Desford - 1728 Aylestone/Little Glen.
Son of William Holyland Sr and ?Elizabeth Elliot?
Margaret Halford bapt 1677 Wistow/Newton Harcourt - 1750 Aylestone/Little Glen.
Daughter of Andrew Halford and Elizabeth.
They have the following children -
Ann Holyland bapt 1712 Blaby/Aylestone/Little Glen - ?Marries John Twiggs 1751?
William Holyland bapt 1714 Thornton - 1794 Little Glen. Marries Ann Boswell 1744
Stanford Holyland bapt 1715 Thornton - 1774 Little Glen. Marries Ann Biggs 1739.
Thomas Holyland bapt 1721 Little Glen/Aylestone - 1798 Blaby/Little Glen. Marries Elizabeth Rash/Rush/Rath 1747.
Interestingly, Margaret *could be* a great granddaughter of John Halford, Gentleman, of Kibworth Beauchamp. Younger son of Edward Halford, Gentleman, of Langham, Rutland. John was younger brother of Sir Richard Halford, 1st Baronet of Wistow and Newton Harcourt (Whom I also descend from on another line)
John of Kibworth had a son Richard in 1617. Richard had a son Andrew baptised at Kibworth 1654.
*See next post for another probable ancestry for Margaret*
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On second thoughts, it appears that Margaret, the wife of Thomas Holyland, *could be* a granddaughter of Andrew Halford, Esquire, son of Sir Richard Halford, 1st Baronet.
Nichols Pedigree state that Andrew Halford, Esquire, had a 2nd son Andrew who married an Elizabeth and had 3 unknown daughters.
Newton Harcourt is next to the Wistow seat of the Halford baronets, and Kilby, where Andrew Halford Sr was seated.
When Andrew Halford, Esquire, dies in 1657 he is styled 'Sr' which shows that a younger Andrew is still alive.
I have
Andrew Halford bapt 1641 Kilby, Leicestershire. Son of Andrew Halford, Esquire, and Mary Hackett. Marries an unknown Elizabeth. Has 3 daughters - Margaret 1677 Newton Harcourt, plus 2 more before 1677.
There is a Mary Halford, daughter of Andrew and Elizabeth who is buried 1685 Wistow/Newton Harcourt.
No baptisms for any other daughter related to a Andrew and Elizabeth apart from Margaret. Around Newton Harcourt/Wistow/Kilby.
Andrew has an admon 1678 (I cant find a burial but he seems to die intestate this year)
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I have these Holylands on my tree, but ancestry is refusing to load my tree atm!
But yes, in short, Thomas "Holliland" m Margaret Halford in Newton Harcourt in 1712. Thomas had been named on the letters of admon of his father's estate so yes, we know that his father was William who died in Desford in 1710. Also, Thomas's marriage licence suggests a dob of 1682. The closest match I can find is Thomas bapt in 1679 in Desford, son of William (no mother's name given as usual). This all matches what you've put. (This isn't from memory btw, it's from my spreadsheets! I'll need to wait until I can see my tree again before I can see which parents I've allocated to William).
I haven't looked into Margaret Halford's background, but there are other instances of the Halford surname (or similar) cropping up with the Holylands and I've wondered if there was any particular ink, or maybe the families just came from the same villages!
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Hi,
I have found this thread rather late, it seems. I have Holylands, too, though they have been "sleeping" since pre-internet days whilst other more obliging lines get sorted.
Is no one else looking at Stanford Holyland, latterly of Huncote?
I am descended from him through his daughter Mary and her presumably illegitimate daughter Frances (c1774) who is mentioned is Stanford's will. This Frances, I believe, is the one who marries John Green; their daughter Ann joined the crowds in St Margaret's Leicester, and Frances her mother as a widow was with the family in 1851. My line then goes down through yet another daughter, so obviously Holyland is no longer a name in the family - still belong, however!
I had also wondered about the Halford connection, as the only baptism as yet for Stanford would seem to be Thomas and Margaret. Still looking to prove or disprove this, though.
So all your posts are very interesting, and thank you all for much food for thought!
pwhhh
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Hi pwhhh, you're not too late to the thread! One of the good things about this site is that threads are still available for years so can be resurrected at any time :)
I've got Stanford on one of my trees although he's not my ancestor. I think I've managed to trace him back but with the registers full of Thomas and William H's, it's not easy to be sure!
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Thanks for the reply, Annie.
I'm still hunting around for clues about Stanford. I wonder where the name came from?
I'll post again if I find anything else.
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I don't know where the name originated but I wonder if it came from an amalgamation of STANton (where he was born - not sure if this was Stoney S, or S under Bardon); plus HalFORD - his mother's maiden name!
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I like that idea!
I have found other Stanfords/Stamfords around, too, interestingly a Stanford Halford whose will is proved in 1723. He is of Slawston. I haven't done enough digging yet to find out who this one is.
Nor some of the others, who I think are probably descendants of Stanford's daughter Ann.
Ongoing...
I wonder whether the family were keen on naming children after the local peer - in this case, perhaps the Greys of Groby, who seem to have been Earls of Stamford. Maybe. I have come across that happening in other lines I am researching, in other counties.
Interestingly, Stanford's great-granddaughter, in Huncote, named a son Lenford. He's not my direct ancestor, but a brother with a useful name! That name also seems to have continued down the generations.
All very puzzling.
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There was a Stanford Holyland bapt in 1785 as well, and a Stamford Holyland in 1825. I can work out the ancestry of the 1785 one, but not the 1825 one - I know his parents were William and Ann, but which William?! There were so many!
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I haven't sorted the later ones yet, as I've only recently come back to Holylands, but have a few Williams scribbled somewhere.
I see lots of digging ahead, and a return to my ancient notes from Leicester Record Office!
I'll get back soon...
pwhhh
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Hi,
I have found this thread rather late, it seems. I have Holylands, too, though they have been "sleeping" since pre-internet days whilst other more obliging lines get sorted.
Is no one else looking at Stanford Holyland, latterly of Huncote?
I am descended from him through his daughter Mary and her presumably illegitimate daughter Frances (c1774) who is mentioned is Stanford's will. This Frances, I believe, is the one who marries John Green; their daughter Ann joined the crowds in St Margaret's Leicester, and Frances her mother as a widow was with the family in 1851. My line then goes down through yet another daughter, so obviously Holyland is no longer a name in the family - still belong, however!
I had also wondered about the Halford connection, as the only baptism as yet for Stanford would seem to be Thomas and Margaret. Still looking to prove or disprove this, though.
So all your posts are very interesting, and thank you all for much food for thought!
pwhhh
Hi,
like many, I'm stuck at the pre-GRO era in my family tree. One of the potential ancestor links I've been working on over the past few years is through Stanford Holyland's daughter Elizabeth (daughter of Stanford Holyland and Ann Biggs), who marries a William Levis.
Now about this Stanford Holyland;
first of all, I have some troubles understanding his marital life. He seems to have had children with both Ann Biggs (m. 1739, Narborough) and Jane Biggs (m. 1747 Misterton, after Ann's death in 1746). However, the baptism entries for his children Ann (1752), Jane (1755) contain the mother's name Ann? While there's no explicit mother's name for Susannah's baptism entry (1762), her burial entry (1772) lists Ann? And Stanford Holyland's will (available through FindMyPast) show his wife at the time of death to be Jane!
I'm not able to make much sense of this Ann vs Jane thing.
Now his will also contains the following curious passage:
I give and bequeath onto my daughter Mary the sum of twenty Pounds, to my daughter Jane the sum of ten Pounds, to my daughter Ann seven Pounds and ten Shillings, and to my daughter Ann Levis one Guinea to be paid to my said daughters respectively within twelve months next after my decease.
This seems to imply that he has two daughters named Ann: Ann (Holyland) and Ann Levis. Could Ann Levis be an illegitimate child?
On top of that, his firstborn daughter (Elizabeth) marries a William Levis.
Would there be a chance that the families arranged this marriage with William Levis, as Stanford might have come from higher standing (looking at the theories around his mother's Margaret Halford's lineage) and did not want to marry the mother of Ann Levis?
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Hi,
I certainly see the problem!
With regard to the daughter Ann Levis, I wondered whether this might in fact be a mistake for Elizabeth. But I do quite like your idea of an Ann being Stanford's illegitimate daughter - who then also could have married a Levis, of course.
Like you, I have found the wives seemingly mixed up: Elizabeth 1739 with Ann, then after wife Ann's probably burial, Mary in 1748 and Thomas in 1751 with mother Jane, But then two Anns in 1752 and 1755 with mother Ann, and Susannah, as you say, with an anonymous mother in 1762.
How can this be?
A mistake by the clerk who was writing in the register? Lack of concentration - after all, the daughter was called Ann. Perhaps he hadn't noted the wife's name but remembered that there once was an Ann? But to do so twice? Hmm.
And could the daughter Ann Levis perhaps really be Elizabeth, the first-born?
She is not mentioned in the will of Jane the wife, although the other daughters are. So is this daughter not hers? Or already dead or provided for?
I have tried to approach this by looking at the Biggs family, but so far have got nowhere useful.
Were Ann and Jane sisters? The best I can find at the moment is a will of a Thomas Biggs, a yeoman of Thurlaston, dated 1761, who has property in Huncote in the possession of Stanford Holyland. He has a wife Elizabeth, but does not name his children (but as they are still minors, unlikely to be either of Stanford's wives. A brother, perhaps?)
At the moment, it seems as if someone in Huncote/Narborough had a fixation with the name Ann! But sadly, this would be very hard to either prove or disprove!
???
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Hi,
I certainly see the problem!
With regard to the daughter Ann Levis, I wondered whether this might in fact be a mistake for Elizabeth. But I do quite like your idea of an Ann being Stanford's illegitimate daughter - who then also could have married a Levis, of course.
Like you, I have found the wives seemingly mixed up: Elizabeth 1739 with Ann, then after wife Ann's probably burial, Mary in 1748 and Thomas in 1751 with mother Jane, But then two Anns in 1752 and 1755 with mother Ann, and Susannah, as you say, with an anonymous mother in 1762.
How can this be?
A mistake by the clerk who was writing in the register? Lack of concentration - after all, the daughter was called Ann. Perhaps he hadn't noted the wife's name but remembered that there once was an Ann? But to do so twice? Hmm.
And could the daughter Ann Levis perhaps really be Elizabeth, the first-born?
She is not mentioned in the will of Jane the wife, although the other daughters are. So is this daughter not hers? Or already dead or provided for?
I have tried to approach this by looking at the Biggs family, but so far have got nowhere useful.
Were Ann and Jane sisters? The best I can find at the moment is a will of a Thomas Biggs, a yeoman of Thurlaston, dated 1761, who has property in Huncote in the possession of Stanford Holyland. He has a wife Elizabeth, but does not name his children (but as they are still minors, unlikely to be either of Stanford's wives. A brother, perhaps?)
At the moment, it seems as if someone in Huncote/Narborough had a fixation with the name Ann! But sadly, this would be very hard to either prove or disprove!
???
I don't think it's a mistake if it's mentioned on three separate occasions over the period of 20 years. Another alternative I can think of, is that the mother of Stanford's last three children is a certain Ann Levis, while he was still legally married to Jane Biggs (maybe Jane could not bear him any further children?). Perhaps calling Ann 'his daughter' in his will was the only socially acceptable way to provide for her?
I know this sounds unlikely, but it would help address the two open issues (the name of the mother of the last three children, as well as the extra Ann Levis appearing in Stanford's will).
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Could there perhaps be two Stanfords?
I have only found one baptism, but there are many details not yet found.
The marriage licence with Jane does not state whether Stanford is a widower or not, and I have not seen the imagethe image. The page in the register does not seem to exist (online). Or does it? (I have not been to the Record Office because of the pandemic).
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Could there perhaps be two Stanfords?
I have only found one baptism, but there are many details not yet found.
The marriage licence with Jane does not state whether Stanford is a widower or not, and I have not seen the imagethe image. The page in the register does not seem to exist (online). Or does it? (I have not been to the Record Office because of the pandemic).
Stanford's will mentions his wife Jane, the children that have baptism entries listing their mother as Jane (Thomas, Mary) and the daughters that have baptism entries listing their mother as Ann (Ann and Jane). This means there's only one Stanford with all these children.
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Stanford's an unusual name and I think there was only one in this timeframe (although there were 2 more in subsequent generations).
William Levis (who married Elizabeth, Stanford's daughter) was from Billesdon. Where did they go? I can't see subsequent burials for William and Elizabeth. There's a baptism of a daughter Elizabeth in Narborough, then possibly a son in Houghton on the Hill, then nothing. Is there any record of a death for Elizabeth? Did Elizabeth and William have a daughter Ann, who could have accidentally been described as a daughter rather than a granddaughter in Stanford's will?
I can't see any baptisms for an Ann Levis in an appropriate timeframe who could have been an illegitimate daughter of Stanford.
Jane (Stanford's widow) also left a will and mentioned children Thomas (living in Huncote), Mary (a spinster), Ann Bradshaw (Ann married John Bradshaw of Enderby in 1775) and Jane Jarvis (Jane married John Jarvis in Narborough in 1784). As stated above, Elizabeth Levis isn't mentioned. Is this because she wasn't Jane's daughter? Or because she was no longer alive? Or had simply fallen out with her stepmother?!
Elizabeth was provided for in her father's will but not in Jane's. If she did die in that intervening time period, it narrows it down to 1778 - 1785.
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Stanford's an unusual name and I think there was only one in this timeframe (although there were 2 more in subsequent generations).
William Levis (who married Elizabeth, Stanford's daughter) was from Billesdon. Where did they go? I can't see subsequent burials for William and Elizabeth. There's a baptism of a daughter Elizabeth in Narborough, then possibly a son in Houghton on the Hill, then nothing. Is there any record of a death for Elizabeth? Did Elizabeth and William have a daughter Ann, who could have accidentally been described as a daughter rather than a granddaughter in Stanford's will?
I can't see any baptisms for an Ann Levis in an appropriate timeframe who could have been an illegitimate daughter of Stanford.
Jane (Stanford's widow) also left a will and mentioned children Thomas (living in Huncote), Mary (a spinster), Ann Bradshaw (Ann married John Bradshaw of Enderby in 1775) and Jane Jarvis (Jane married John Jarvis in Narborough in 1784). As stated above, Elizabeth Levis isn't mentioned. Is this because she wasn't Jane's daughter? Or because she was no longer alive? Or had simply fallen out with her stepmother?!
Elizabeth was provided for in her father's will but not in Jane's. If she did die in that intervening time period, it narrows it down to 1778 - 1785.
Those are some very good questions!
I've had no luck with any Ann Levis either, and Elizabeth was dead by 1785 if my guess is correct (see below).
Here goes what I've come up with in my research (and using a lot of imagination I guess):
- A William Levis was discharged on 26 Jul 1773 from the Royal Hospital in Chelsea. Aged 35 born in Leicester, he served 18 years and 6 months with the 1st foot guards. This very neatly fits with William Levis baptised 21 May 1774 in Houghton-on-the-Hill, and could explain the relatively long period of no child birth by his wife Elisabeth after their first child Elisabeth in 1761.
- A William (farmer, abode Fleet Fen, d. 1789) and Elizabeth Levis (d. 1782) are buried in Gedney Hill. This is quite some ways from Houghton-on-the-Hill (last sighting when son William was baptised in 1774), but fits my family lore that a William and Elizabeth came from Leicestershire to the Fenlands.
- And here is the link to my verified earliest ancestor: A William Leavis, gardener born around 1774, is buried in 1850 in the Elm parish. On the certificate of his second marriage in 1838 he lists his father as William Leavis, farmer.
Note that there is at least one more Billesdon Levis sightings in the Fenlands around this time period:
- An Amos Levis (transcribed 'Levice') aged about 63, sojourner, dies 1761 in Sutton St James (Spalding). Considering how unusual his first name is, I believe this is the Amos Levis baptised 1703 in Billesdon, whose daughter Hannah was baptised in Billesdon in 1751. Note that Sutton St James is only a stone's throw from the Fleet Fen where William the farmer lived for the last 7+ years of his life.
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It appears that Thomas Holyland of Little Glen (Glen Parva) is the son of William Holyland Sr, who dies in 1710 Desford.
Thomas Holyland marries Margaret Halford, 1712, Newton Harcourt. Thomas is aged around 30 and Margaret aged around 29.
Thomas Holyland bapt 1679 Desford - 1728 Aylestone/Little Glen.
Son of William Holyland Sr and ?Elizabeth Elliot?
Margaret Halford bapt 1677 Wistow/Newton Harcourt - 1750 Aylestone/Little Glen.
Daughter of Andrew Halford and Elizabeth.
They have the following children -
Ann Holyland bapt 1712 Blaby/Aylestone/Little Glen - ?Marries John Twiggs 1751?
William Holyland bapt 1714 Thornton - 1794 Little Glen. Marries Ann Boswell 1744
Stanford Holyland bapt 1715 Thornton - 1774 Little Glen. Marries Ann Biggs 1739.
Thomas Holyland bapt 1721 Little Glen/Aylestone - 1798 Blaby/Little Glen. Marries Elizabeth Rash/Rush/Rath 1747.
Interestingly, Margaret *could be* a great granddaughter of John Halford, Gentleman, of Kibworth Beauchamp. Younger son of Edward Halford, Gentleman, of Langham, Rutland. John was younger brother of Sir Richard Halford, 1st Baronet of Wistow and Newton Harcourt (Whom I also descend from on another line)
John of Kibworth had a son Richard in 1617. Richard had a son Andrew baptised at Kibworth 1654.
*See next post for another probable ancestry for Margaret*
I stumbled into yet another Holyland - Halford link: there's a marriage between an Andrew Halford and an Eleanor Holyland on 22 Mar 1733 in Polesworth, Warwickshire. This Eleanor appears to have been quite young at time of the marriage.
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I've noted the marriage of Andrew and Eleanor before; one or both was from Derby, I can't work out which, though I suspect it was Andrew, as they seem to be in Desford subsequently. So I suspect that Elinor was part of the Desford Holyland clan - though just where she fits in, I don't know, a I can't see a suitable baptism for her. Why do you think Eleanor was quite young?
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I've noted the marriage of Andrew and Eleanor before; one or both was from Derby, I can't work out which, though I suspect it was Andrew, as they seem to be in Desford subsequently. So I suspect that Elinor was part of the Desford Holyland clan - though just where she fits in, I don't know, a I can't see a suitable baptism for her. Why do you think Eleanor was quite young?
The Ancestry tree (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/108328948/person/280065865440/facts) where I found her marriage show her having been baptised in 1722, married in 1733.
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The Eleanor shown on that tree is the only Eleanor (other spellings available!) That I've found too. But I wouldn't assume it was her just because of that.
I'll have a closer look at this later.
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I've noted the marriage of Andrew and Eleanor before; one or both was from Derby, I can't work out which, though I suspect it was Andrew, as they seem to be in Desford subsequently. So I suspect that Elinor was part of the Desford Holyland clan - though just where she fits in, I don't know, a I can't see a suitable baptism for her. Why do you think Eleanor was quite young?
The Ancestry tree (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/108328948/person/280065865440/facts) where I found her marriage show her having been baptised in 1722, married in 1733.
I think that tree has made some assumptions that I don't think are correct.
They show Elinor as the only daughter of John H and Ann (unknown); they have John b around 1695, son of Henry, and dying in Botcheston in 1785/86.
Elinor was baptised in Fenny Drayton in 1722, abode given as Bedworth. The only other Holyland event I have in Fenny Drayton is the marriage of Ann Holiland to William Argill of Wyken, the following year.
I've seen the grave of John who died in Botcheston and I am sure that he is the John Holyland who was b in Ratby in 1704. He married Catherine (no marriage record found) who is also buried at Botcheston and they had one son, John, b 1741. You can link the older John with the continuing line as he usefully listed his 10 Holyland grandchildren in his will :), and all those children were the offspring of his son John.
John's will doesn't mention any Halford grandchildren but does mention his "nephew" Joseph Halford, miller of Desford. Now John had a sister Catherine who married William Halford in Ratby in 1734, so I have assumed that Joseph is a descendant of that line. Maybe it would be useful to try to untangle the Desford Halfords?
Edited to add: William Halford and his wife Catherine had children in Hathern, including a son Joseph in 1750 - possible?
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Stanford's an unusual name and I think there was only one in this timeframe (although there were 2 more in subsequent generations).
William Levis (who married Elizabeth, Stanford's daughter) was from Billesdon. Where did they go? I can't see subsequent burials for William and Elizabeth. There's a baptism of a daughter Elizabeth in Narborough, then possibly a son in Houghton on the Hill, then nothing. Is there any record of a death for Elizabeth? Did Elizabeth and William have a daughter Ann, who could have accidentally been described as a daughter rather than a granddaughter in Stanford's will?
I can't see any baptisms for an Ann Levis in an appropriate timeframe who could have been an illegitimate daughter of Stanford.
Jane (Stanford's widow) also left a will and mentioned children Thomas (living in Huncote), Mary (a spinster), Ann Bradshaw (Ann married John Bradshaw of Enderby in 1775) and Jane Jarvis (Jane married John Jarvis in Narborough in 1784). As stated above, Elizabeth Levis isn't mentioned. Is this because she wasn't Jane's daughter? Or because she was no longer alive? Or had simply fallen out with her stepmother?!
Elizabeth was provided for in her father's will but not in Jane's. If she did die in that intervening time period, it narrows it down to 1778 - 1785.
Those are some very good questions!
I've had no luck with any Ann Levis either, and Elizabeth was dead by 1785 if my guess is correct (see below).
Here goes what I've come up with in my research (and using a lot of imagination I guess):
- A William Levis was discharged on 26 Jul 1773 from the Royal Hospital in Chelsea. Aged 35 born in Leicester, he served 18 years and 6 months with the 1st foot guards. This very neatly fits with William Levis baptised 21 May 1774 in Houghton-on-the-Hill, and could explain the relatively long period of no child birth by his wife Elisabeth after their first child Elisabeth in 1761.
- A William (farmer, abode Fleet Fen, d. 1789) and Elizabeth Levis (d. 1782) are buried in Gedney Hill. This is quite some ways from Houghton-on-the-Hill (last sighting when son William was baptised in 1774), but fits my family lore that a William and Elizabeth came from Leicestershire to the Fenlands.
- And here is the link to my verified earliest ancestor: A William Leavis, gardener born around 1774, is buried in 1850 in the Elm parish. On the certificate of his second marriage in 1838 he lists his father as William Leavis, farmer.
Note that there is at least one more Billesdon Levis sightings in the Fenlands around this time period:
- An Amos Levis (transcribed 'Levice') aged about 63, sojourner, dies 1761 in Sutton St James (Spalding). Considering how unusual his first name is, I believe this is the Amos Levis baptised 1703 in Billesdon, whose daughter Hannah was baptised in Billesdon in 1751. Note that Sutton St James is only a stone's throw from the Fleet Fen where William the farmer lived for the last 7+ years of his life.
after some more research this theory appears to gain more traction:
I believe that Elisabeth Levis baptised 1761 re-appears in 1788 in Doddington, Cambridgeshire where she marries James Byfield (a couple of months before her presumed father William dies in Gedney Hill). She signs with 'Leavis'. Subsequently, James Byfield dies and Elizabeth re-marries a Joseph Groom(e)(s) in 1789. The births of both their children appear in a non-conformist birth registry maintained by Dr. Williams Library, Redcross Street, London, where Elizabeth's father is named a 'William Lavis'. She dies in 1843 in Purl's Bridge (Ely Union registration district) as 'Elizabeth Groomes' age 83.
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I think I have found the link between Ann & Jane Biggs (the two wives of Stanford Holyland).
The will of John Biggs of Huncote dated 1731 mentions a son, Thomas, and two daughters Ann and Jane.
There is further confirmation in the will of Thomas Biggs of Thurlaston, dated 1761, who has property in Huncote in the possession of Stanford Holyland.
It appears Ann and Jane were sisters and their parents were John Biggs and Elizabeth of Huncote.
I would really like to trace back further into the Biggs ancestry.
Any thoughts?