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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Donegal => Topic started by: my-irish-family on Monday 22 August 11 14:47 BST (UK)
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Hi guys, Im new on this forum and this is my first message, apologies if there are already threads regarding my question.
I am researching my gg grandfather, a john brown who was born in county donegal (it states this on 1901 census, but 1911 it states county tyrone?!). He married an Ellen Gallagher around 1870 and they lived in Dunmore with their family. However, i cannot seem to find any information on Dunmore at all. I can find information on Killea (the parish) but i would love to try and find any history on dunmore so i can begin to understand how my ancestors lived.
On the census he was an agricultural labourer and the farmer john james glenn owned his dwelling so i gather that was his boss. I have tried looking for comparisons within the griffiths valuation as there were 11 dwellings in 1857 but 16 on the census, for surnames etc. However, my gg grandfather and his family lived there during the time a robert McClintock still resided at dunmore house (the last McClintock of dunmore house before it went to the MacFarlands).
If anyone can provide me with any information regarding dunmore or the people mentioned it would really be appreciated.
:)
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There are several townlands named Dunmore in Co. Donegal - here's the one in Killea civil parish on the OSI maps : Dunmore townland (http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,637600,912625,5,7)
Select the 6" historic view to see the townland border etc. The yellow line to the east is the border with Co. Derry, and also quite close to the border with Co. Tyrone
from the townland database at : www.thecore.com/seanruad
Townland : Dunmore
Size (Acres/Rods/Perches) : 383a 3r 7p
Barony : Raphoe
Civil Parish : Killea
Registration District (PLU) : Londonderry
County : Donegal
Dunmore house is in the south of the townland.
Shane
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Hi Shane,
Thank you for your quick reply. I also didnt realise that there was more than one Dunmore in Donegal, so thank you very much for drawing my attention to that.
This map is great. I have been having some success comparing the 1857 griffiths with the 1901 census, but it would be really helpful if i could somehow view a map for dunmore in Killea for early 1900s too. Does anyone know if i am able to find such a thing?
Thank you so much for your help
Lara
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note quite the early 1900s, but the 25" Historic map on the OSI (Ordnance Survey of Ireland) website is dated from the early 1890s
Shane
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For reference here's the family in Dunmore (mis-transcribed as Drunmore) in 1911-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Donegal/Killea/Drunmore/500594
and in 1901-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Killea/Dunmore/1190720
Four of the children are listed in LDS database-
1. William John born 15 Nov.1872 Co. Donegal
2. Samuel born 19 Oct.1874 Carrigans district
3. Sarah Jane born 28 July 1876 Co. Donegal
4. James born 1 Feb.1879 Derry, Co. Londonderry district (surname Browne)
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Thank you very much, to both of you. Shane, that 25" map is a really big help.
Thank you for the names aghadowey, i will have a look at these on the LDS website tonight.
Such a struggle researching irish family when you don't actually live there. You have to rely on the internet.
Thanks again!
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Hi
Not sure if you have the details of John and Ellen's marriage but this may be it.
John Brown = Ellen Gallagher 1872 Glendermott Civil Parish, I believe the marriage took place at St. Columb's RC Church, Waterside, Londonderry
John's father was also called John, Ellen's father was called Samuel
Regards
Joe
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Aw Joe, that could well be them! They were an RC family and i know that dunmore was literally a few miles from derry. Would anyone happen to know if there was an RC church where you could get married in dunmore/killea, or would you have had to go to derry around that time?
An amazing find Joe thank you. If possible (not a problem if you cant, you have been such a help already) John and ellen had a son david brown born in 1890, donegal, who married an annie mcclay in 1912. I know annie's mother was called margaret. However, i can find an annie mcclay on the 1911 census living in tirroddy with a mother margaret and several brothers (seems too much of a coincidence as she married david a year later and their son, my grandfather, was born in tirroddy).
But i cannot find her in the 1901 census.... there does appear to be an annie living with the same people mentioned in the 1911 census however 1901 states margaret as her sister, but as her mother in 1911. I have been looking for her birth certificate to establish if margaret was indeed her mother, or a sister who looked after her as a mother, but to no avail. She was 26 in 1911 so would have been born mid 1880's.
Thank you once again for that find joe, such a huge help!
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This family is confusing me, don't seem to be any easy answers, first question first, there would have been closer RC churches to Dunmore, I can think of 1 or 2 in Derry which would have been closer but it depends where Ellen Gallagher came from, the church in the Waterside may have been her church, and a marriage in the brides church is traditional.
Now to more confusion, you say David Brown married Annie McClay in 1912, and all Ireland search produces only one result David Brown = Annie McClay, Ebrington Presbyterian Ch, Waterside, Londonderry, David's father is a John Brown, unusually for the bride neither parent is mentioned, this may mean the bride did not know her father or there may be some other explanation
the marriage is also recorded in the Civil register, took place in the last quarter 1912 Oct - Dec Vol 2 page 149
If this is the marriage, David being RC and the Annie you identified as COI, I have no idea why the marriage would have taken place in a Presbyterian church.
Going by the Census details Annie may have been illegitimate this may be why Margaret changes from sister to Mother between the 2 Census records, the ages may also be approximate, note Margaret is single in the 1911 Census, I can also find no suitable birth record for Annie
There is one other outside possibility for an alternative Annie McClay who was 15 in the 1901 Census, mother Margaret who was Presbyterian but she lived in Ramelton, Donegal which seems too far away, I also don't see her in the 1911 Census. (Also don't see a reason why her father wouldn't be in marriage record)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Ballyarr/Moyagh/1192926/
Sorry I can't be of more help but this families giving me a headache ;D
Regards
Joe
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Sorry this message posted by mistake, needs deleted!
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Joe, i really cannot thank you enough!!! I hope my family hasnt stressed you out. They're a nightmare and my grandmother's side is just as bad!! :o
The marriage cert you found would be them, thank you!! David and Annie were my grandfather's parents and him and his siblings were raised presbyterian. Why presbyterian i have no idea. As for the annie, im thinking that her mother margaret must have had her illegitimately, as well as the other two and therefore was her "sister" in 1901 but "mother" in 1911. Plus im thinking her age changed dramatically due to the pension claim forms in 1908. I never knew it was traditional to marry in the brides church, that is a big help for other areas, thank you.
Please run as far away from any other posts i put up as you have been stressed out by my elusive family enough hehe ;D I think i am going to just have to give my mother a list when she heads over to ireland next month, to make an appointment with PRONI and to do a tour of parishes :)
You have been such a help, thank you!!!!
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Glad the marriage record made some sense to you, it made none to me!
At least it looks to be the correct record, I was worried I was sending you up a blind alley!
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I believe that John and Ellen Brown had a son called Joseph who, sadly, at the age of 24 was killed in the First World War. He enlisted in the army at Londonderry and he became a Private in the 1st Battalion of the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers. Joseph was killed on the Western Front on 28th September 1916 and is interred at the Vlamertinghe Military Cemetery, Belgium. He is commemorated on the war memorial at Dunree Fort near Buncrana, County Donegal.
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mention on 1901 census on donegal resources
http://www.donegalgenealogy.com
then come down the page and click on Killea
drunmore is mention here
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I know this is an old thread but just in case
David McClays birth - https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1887/02571/1950659.pdf
Hugh McClays birth
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02304/1863960.pdf
Joseph McClay (Ann's grandfather?, Margarets father) Death - https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1904/05637/4586204.pdf (Note - it was notified by a Rebecca Finney - daughter, present at death)
Rebecca's marriage https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1882/10956/8004823.pdf