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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: glenysjr on Wednesday 28 September 11 22:21 BST (UK)
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In my research of the PAULIN family, I have found that Durham and Northumberland seem to overlap not only county lines but even parish lines. For instance, Norham was in Durham before I think, 1844 and in Northumberland after that. Running into similar situations with other parishes.
So, when I search for my Mary PAULIN born 1815-1817 should I be looking in Durham or Northumberland? On her children's birth certs. in Australia she says she was born in Northumberland. There are a number of PAULIN families in Berwick-Upon-Tweed and Norham, and am leaning to the Norham family.
My brain is having a hard time gettting around whether she is from Durham or Northumberland or when and where the changes took place involving the above parishes. I'd like to think that's why I can't find her!!
Can someone set me straight please?
Glenys
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Hi
Parts of Northumberland were referred to as North Durham. I think that this might explain it
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,521331.msg3768969.html#msg3768969
gnu
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Thank you Gnu - that helps to make a lot more sense out of what I was seeing.
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Glenys,
Perhaps these maps might aid your research.
Interactive map of Northumberland showing it's division into parishes. Clicking on a parish will reveal the A-Z of that parish- including history, church records etc....
www.genuki.bpears.org.uk/NBL/nblmap.html
And Ditto for County Durham........
Joinermarriageindex.co.uk/pjoiner/genuki/DUR/durmap.html
Maps cover era c1830-1860
Michael
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Thank you Michael. Will sit down tonight and have a good look.
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Norham baptisms:
Agnes Paulin baptised 1 Jun 1817 Bastard daughter of Henry Paulin and Isabella Henderson of the Pairsh of Ladykirk
Margaret Paulin baptised 18 Feb 1831 daughter of Jane Paulin of Upsettlington, parish of Ladykirk, single woman.
Dissenter birth registered in Norham parish register:
William Paulin son of James Paulin of Horncliffe, said to be born 25 Jan 1813
Associate Congregation of Norham:
John Palin baptised 1 July 1772 son of John Palin of the parish of Norham and Margaret his wife was baptised at Norham
George Palin baptised 31 Jan 1776 son of John Palin of the parish of Norham and Margaret his wife baptised at Norham
Berwick Parish baptisms:
Alexander Moor Paulin baptised 18 Jan 1829 illegitimate son of Mary Paulin of Berwick (buried 22 Nov 1829)
Jane Paulin baptised 25 May 1834 d/o James and Margaret
John Paulin baptised 14 Feb 1836 s/o James and Margaret
Janet Paulin baptised 12 Jan 1831 d/o Henry and Margaret (buried 23 Aug 1831)
There are a whole lot more burials of Paulin's in Berwick than baptisms so they were probably Presbyterian or some other dissenter church
Berwick Low Meeting baptisms (Hyde Hill Chapel) (Presby)
Robert Paxton/Paulin,baptised 3 May 1833 son of James Paxton/Paulin Quartermaster of the 25th Regiment, and Jane his wife. Born 29 Apr 1833
There are quite a few baptisms of Paulin/Pauline/Paulen/Paulline in Berwick High Meeting but the last was in 1813--a William son of Joseph and Margaret (nee Maxwell). Joseph was a Cooper
Many more Paulin's baptised in Berwick Golden Square but no Mary's around 1815-1820.
Janis
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Janis: THANK YOU!!! You have pulled a couple of PAULINs we did not have and we appreciate your help very much.
Personally, I like the Berwick PAULINs more than the Norham ones, but Margaret PAULIN d/o of James and Mary CURL PAULIN married Robert PORTEOUS in Gordon, Berwickshire 1 May 1841 and he (Robert) was a witness at the marriage of our Mary PAULIN and Andrew TEAGUE in 1843 (see other message).
Some of the family contend this proves the relationship of our Mary to James and Mary CURL PAULIN, others that she could have been a cousin, not a sister to Margaret.
Usually Australian death certs. are wonderful resources, but sadly our Mary's is not one of them - with all kinds of errors. Her grandson the informant, probably did not know much about her. So I go with the Australian born children whose birth certs. state she was born in Northumberland - and because either she or her husband Andrew were the informants on those they probably knew.
Again, sincere thanks for all the information you sent.
Glenys
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Seems like you've got this more or less cleared up, but Norhamshire (which includes several other modern parishes, not just that of Norham) was part of the County of Durham until 1844, even though if you look at a map, you will see that it is detached from the rest of Durham, being much further north in Northumberland. This is because it was originally (in the Middle Ages) part of the lands of the priory at Lindisfarne, which was under the jurisdiction of Durham Cathedral. It was one of several parishes that by their geography should have been in Northumberland, but in terms of administration, remained part of County Durham until the nineteenth century.
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Thanks Becca - I really appreciate the additional information on the area.
Glenys
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You likely already have yr answerBUT. In the north of the county there were gifts of land to the monastery of Lindisfarne. These passed to the Durham Bishopric when Cuthbert's body, via ChesterLe Street got to the oxbow island where Durham cathedral was set up. These land rights and others became part of the Durham Palatinate ( a sort of semi autonomous area) (medieval monarchs wanted the Bishop (early on a very temporal power)to look after the North against the Scots. Not only land rights but court functions went with the Palatinate. The Bishop early on had rights of execution.
The Palatinate was wound down in the 1800s in a gradual way.They did this partly by removing powers and partly by making Queen Victoria the Palatine. That was the easy thing to do and things got back into the hands of the Sovereign and hence Parliament and it's usual functions of courts etc.
As this went on you had a situation where in Bedlington near me, some people still pursued contentious legal cases through the still extant Bishops courts. It was cheaper, more local, and less bother than to use the now empowered courts of Chancery in London, vide Dickens on the Chancery Courts.
So Bedlington, and the so called 'Islandshire" (places near Lindisfarne) were for a long time, juridically DURHAM and appeared on maps as Durham. I discovered when looking for my Logan and Havery ancestors that even Norham was so to speak, Durham. Gradually there position was regularised and in about 1855, (a date you mentioned ?) the Palatinate and trough it the grants to the predecessors of the Bishop of Durham all went.
Now some lighter stuff. I am now looking at a Lamberton Toll marriage certificate given by Andrew Lyons for a marriage on 28th May 1870. This was of course an 'Irregular Border Marriage'. The bride and groom were Jane Havery of Spittal and Alexander Anderson of (Ross Cowdrait or Burnmouth) They were my great grandparents and I have photos of both. Jane in one pic is with her neighbours (?) they wearing little capes, aprons, and horizontally pleated skirts. A type dress for fisher wives. Jane is holding my grandfather whom I knew. He said they eloped to Laverton. I doubt it there were very many 'marriages' there.
As usual they took some friends to testify to the marriage (it was a marriage by repute and their friends had that repute. So there were two witnesses , Robert Johnstone and NOTE This , Agnes Paulin.
The business of the county borders was an organic process as you will gather, not a smooth rational creation.
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Thank you for your very descriptive explanation. A previous thorough search of Durham unfortunately does not show us Mary Paulin, but we will keep eyes and mind open.
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Jane Havery of Spittal I believe was my great grandmothers sister her name was Christina the parents are Robert and Margaret.
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Northumberland Archives at Woodhorn sell a really good two sides map showing all the Northumberland parishes.I think this costs no more than a couple of pounds.
I bought one a good while back and I find this very useful and helpful. The map is two sides and has both a numerical and alphabetical index. It has helped me find out how closes parishes are and has helped me track my ancestors journeys. They came here from Ireland originally.
This is definitely a great buy for Northumberland searching genealogists. The map is A4 so handy for carrying too.