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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Montgomeryshire => Topic started by: MrsF on Tuesday 06 December 11 08:57 GMT (UK)
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Hello!
I was wondering if anyone could help me with a query I have regarding John & Charlotte Jones who were shown as living at "Penygelly" in Kerry, Montgomeryshire in the 1841 Census. Their daughter (Elizabeth Anne) died in 1904 and left "her farm Penygelly" under her will to my great-grandfather. I was wondering whether the farm might still be in existence? Her will also requested that a stained glass window be paid for in Kerry Church in memory of her mother. So, if anyone has been to the church and noticed even the smallest of windows with this reference, I would love to know! I appreciate that Jones is a very very common surname - hence why my research has stalled with John and Charlotte - but any help would be most welcome. Thank you.
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Hi and welcome :)
Lower Penygelly Farm still exists - see Google maps
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0i2s/
I can't get it to go directly to the map but if you click on the address to the left of the map, it will bring it up
gnu
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Notes re the church here:
http://www.cpat.demon.co.uk/projects/longer/churches/montgom/16413.htm
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Hi again
Are you sure that John and Charlotte were at Penygelly in 1841 as I can only see a family headed by Edward Morris, farmer, there.
HO107/1440/18/5/1
gnu
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Thank you for your - very prompt - replies!
The reference I have for the 1841 Census is HO 107/1439/6. Admittedly the name Jones looks like "Johns" but after spending ages trawling through the online records, I am sure they are the John, Charlotte and Elizabeth Jones in my family tree. In the 1851 Census they have moved to London where Elizabeth was at school, and I believe the farm was being worked by the Davies family, who I am keeping fingers crossed were related to Charlotte.
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I see it now - there's the Township of Penygelli in one piece and a farm called Penygelly in another. They're in the township
Full ref is HO107/1439/6/2/5
gnu
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I've found a possible marriage for John and Charlotte in Newtown~
26 April 1822
John Jones of Llanfyllin and Charlotte Owens of Newtown by Licence
Witnesses - Solomon Jones and Samuel Horton
I note that John was born Shropshire on the 1851
I'll see if I can find any others.
gnu
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Many thanks for your reply. If the marriage details are correct then it would be a major headache solved for me! I have tried so hard to get to John and/or Charlotte's family members but without any luck so far. I haven't been able to establish Charlotte's maiden name or find any reference to John's parents.
Yes, John Jones was born in Forden, Shropshire (in approx 1800). Charlotte was born in Kerry, Montgomery at around the same time. They had a son, Jonathan Havard Jones (born 1827 in Kerry) and their daughter Elizabeth Anne was also born in Kerry in 1831.
I do appreciate your very kind help.
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Hi again
I've got some specialist records on my other computer, so will look at them for you later.
If he was born Forden, it would be Montgomeryshire and not Shropshire - but it was borderland really
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MGY/Forden/index.html
and see how close to the Shropshire border it is:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0i2t/
I'm not sure that I can come up with anything on John Jones (have a few of those myself :-X )
gnu
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Again , thank you for your efforts.
I expect that I may ultimately have to make the trip from Suffolk to visit the Powys record office to delve deeper into the archives - although my poor husband always turns a bit pale when I mention record offices and microfiche!!
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Hi,
I had a quick look at the Kerry records and the only birth for a Charlotte in Kerry in around 1800 I could find was 9 th April 1799
Charlotte D, of William and Ann Hamer. bap - Penygelly.
The only other Charlotte I could find around that date was
Charlotte D. of Edward and Jane Gwilt bap- Brinllowarch June 20th 1802.
Don't know if that is of any help to you? Hope so.
Jan
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P.s
Also found
April 10th 1803
Epaphroditus S. of William and Ann Hamer bap. Penygelly.
Will see if i can see any others.
Jan
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Sorry, couldn't find anyone else, nor a marriage for William and Ann. I'll let you know if I find anything.
Jan
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Hi Jan
Thank you very much for your research - I really appreciate your help. I've been stuck with this part of my family tree for a long time now and cannot get any further back on either Charlotte's side or her husband, John Jones'.
Best wishes
Mary
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I have now managed to establish that Charlotte Home married John Jones in St Michael's Church, Kerry in 1824.
There is reference to a Anne Havard Home of Penygelly who died in 1836 aged 58. I think this may be Charlotte Home's mother. The records also show a marriage between William Horne and Anne Havard on 3 May 1798 in Churchstoke. I am wondering if William Horne should actually read "Home"? Does anybody have a connection/link with this family.
Thanks!
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Thank you for your - very prompt - replies!
The reference I have for the 1841 Census is HO 107/1439/6. Admittedly the name Jones looks like "Johns" but after spending ages trawling through the online records, I am sure they are the John, Charlotte and Elizabeth Jones in my family tree. In the 1851 Census they have moved to London where Elizabeth was at school, and I believe the farm was being worked by the Davies family, who I am keeping fingers crossed were related to Charlotte.
Hi
I have Davies relatives living at Penygelli in 1841 - 1873ish - I wonder if they were working your relatives farm? Thomas was the old man and he had sons, Thomas 1873 and Richard Robert 1875
Clare
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Hello Clare
I think that Charlotte Jones's sister, Mary Ann, married Robert Davies (they are shown as living at Penygelli in the 1851 census). Charlotte's daughter, Elizabeth Anne, also mentions "my cousin Martha Lewis" in her Will, and Martha was the daughter of Robert and Mary Ann.
Would Robert Davies (born approx 1803) be connected to your Thomas Davies in any way?
Kind regards
Mary
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Hi there!
I know im necroing an old thread, but i do so in hoping the original poster will see this reply!
I, too, am researching my family history, and believe we may be looking at the same people.
We are currently looking at a John Jones (DOB Unknown, died 1875), who married a Charlotte Owens in 1822 in Wales (same as the information given above). Charlotte died in 1879 according to our records, and so the timeline and place seems to fit in what the thread above says. However, we have the daughter (or one of their daughters) as "Mary Ann Elizabeth Jones", with Elizabeth being one of her middle names. This daughter married my great-great-great grandfather James Bakes in 1860 around York.
If the original poster (or indeed anyone) has any more information, then i would be very grateful!
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http://search.shropshirehistory.org.uk/collections/search/?q=Jones+Kerry&cb_submit=Search
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Resurrecting an old chat here but just come across it. I have a John Jones and Charlotte Owens in my family tree as well. They married on the 26th April 1822 in Newtown Parish Church, Wales and I know this as it is verified in a very old family bible we have. However our John and Charlotte moved to York shortly afterwards and were living there on the 1841 census. They had a daughter (my ancestor), Mary Ann Elizabeth Jones who was born 29th Dec 1829, also in York. This Mary Jones married James Bakes and we eventually end up in Hull (Bakes is my surname).
I just wondered if the person who had started this chat got any further with this? It would be great if we could connect the two but I can't help but think that our Charlotte and John's are different people as you have yours still in Wales on the 1841 census? But I noticed the marriage on the 26th April 1822 was mentioned somewhere?